Robert11
New member
When you say elevated do you mean higher than pre lgd/mk or higher than normal? I drink moderately and excercise heavily and have bloods taken quarterly and my values are always in the range 10-25, never out of range.
Crazy high ALT, AST from Ostarine
- Thread starter Jinsun
- Start date
When you say elevated do you mean higher than pre lgd/mk or higher than normal? I drink moderately and excercise heavily and have bloods taken quarterly and my values are always in the range 10-25, never out of range.
Vikingbro
Active member
I will have to get back to you on this as I don’t have the results at hand. If I remember rightly they were only slightly elevated post LGD/ghar1ne use. I have only done 4 bloods done. Two pre TRT a while before I started TRT and 1 pre and 1 post TRT at the 6 week mark post starting. I stopped my use of any SARM/PH a long time before TRT as I wanted to make sure my levels were even, normal and as back to baseline as possible. I even stopped creatine and everything with the exception of whey isolate post workout. You have made me interested in finding out my values so I will dig them out and let you know as I’m also very interested in this thread.
Jinsun
Well-known member
Been researching a bit more about osta, looking a bit more into other peoples lipid results after cycle. It appears that osta tanks your HDL and up's your LDL just like any other anabolic (AAS or PH). Also in a lot of cases it increases liver enzymes. Suppression is interesting though. It suppresses testosterone but HPTA remains active. LH never really gets shutdown only suppressed.
It would appear that ostarine is easier to recover from (albeit I have no idea what are it's mechanisms of action on suppressing T production if LH stays the same) but has the same negative impact on cardiovascular and liver health as other anabolic compounds.
To be honest I see no reason to run osta over, let's say, var or primo. And if you take injectable primo for example together with a test base you will avoid liver strain. Also, I trust more well renounced UGL's then companies that sell SARMs. Also, I got quite increased acne in week 4 and started getting them on my face in week 5. I am acne prone but never get them on my face any more. Except when I have increased androgens in my blood.
I wont take a serm and do another test on friday and see if my T will start rising up. Would make sense bc LH is at a normal level for me, although if it would raise significantly for a short time (as when it does when serms are taken) I would probably get to higher T levels quicker. Anyway, I'm interested what my T will be... An observation: I had aches in my testies today, similar as when I was starting to get suppressed, so it might be that they are starting to produce T again.
It would appear that ostarine is easier to recover from (albeit I have no idea what are it's mechanisms of action on suppressing T production if LH stays the same) but has the same negative impact on cardiovascular and liver health as other anabolic compounds.
To be honest I see no reason to run osta over, let's say, var or primo. And if you take injectable primo for example together with a test base you will avoid liver strain. Also, I trust more well renounced UGL's then companies that sell SARMs. Also, I got quite increased acne in week 4 and started getting them on my face in week 5. I am acne prone but never get them on my face any more. Except when I have increased androgens in my blood.
I wont take a serm and do another test on friday and see if my T will start rising up. Would make sense bc LH is at a normal level for me, although if it would raise significantly for a short time (as when it does when serms are taken) I would probably get to higher T levels quicker. Anyway, I'm interested what my T will be... An observation: I had aches in my testies today, similar as when I was starting to get suppressed, so it might be that they are starting to produce T again.
Vikingbro
Active member
Found my ALT values. 35 u/L range 0.00-0.40 u/L.
Chados
Well-known member
Obviously not to build muscles. Ostarine was made to prevent muscle waste and has been studied for people with cancer etc. It's not aas at all, it helps control cortisol. Can you use it for that sure but it's extremly weak compared to aas
Polly1
Member
Is it just Osta or the other sarms as well?I stocked up before starting the Osta....i now have s23,lgd3303,yk11 and rad-140.
Vikingbro
Active member
I agree. Some people really dislike it. I on the other hand had the time of my life on it. First thing I ever ran. I had to force myself out the gym. I did crazy amounts of sets and volume. Endless energy. I felt incredible on it. LGD and 1/4/epi Andro on the other hand hit me like a train with the lethargy. Everyone is different.
Jinsun
Well-known member
That's a weak argument, as aas intended for human use were all created for sparing muscles in muscle wasting scenarios. And now we use them for our purposes. It's just that osta was touted to be a side effect free anabolic, which it obviously isn't. If I'm going to tank my HDL I might as well just use compounds that will bring better results. Not to mention liver enzimes, acne, etc...
Jinsun
Well-known member
I also had good results, and felt good! I'm really bummed I had to quit the cycle. If it wasn't for the liver toxicity I would have stayed on it. The HDL drop and the LDL rise was also a bit of a shocker but I would have pushed through that...
solidsnake
Well-known member
To me sounds like either spiked or cross contaminated produce
Jinsun
Well-known member
If it was spiked LH would have been much more suppressed.
solidsnake
Well-known member
You don’t know that. It could have 5gr of paracetamol in each cap for all you know. Just because your lh wasn’t suppressed doesn’t mean it’s not spiked or contaminated with any old sh1te ds,sarm or anything for that matter
Chados
Well-known member
Exactly.
Chados
Well-known member
No it's not. It's a really valid argument. There are sarms like s4 that are pushing it to the limit being some sort of winstrol clone with clomid like side effects. Ostarine might not be 100% safe and absolutely not in the dosage most people run it and for the time they run it. It's supposed to prevent muscle waste only. It's supposed to be used at a low dosage. Ostarine sucks compared to aas we all know that and we still use it for muscle building purposes just because it's safer supposedly. It's not a valid argument to say this is 100%certain because I had bad values. There are plenty of people saying the opposite and we dont know wether a specific brand are doing contamination which is extremly common. It's also not possible the results comes from something else than osta.
Jinsun
Well-known member
I was talking about spiking not contamination. Spiked as in PH or something. I agree on the contamination.
Polly1
Member
Have you tried LGD 3303?
Vikingbro
Active member
Nope. I would like to hear a lot more reviews on it before trying it. My next cycle will be m sten (nanodrol) plus test 500mg/week. Looking forward to it. I’ve already blown up like a mo fo on my current cycle which is nothing more than TRT dose of test and 12mg LGD so looking forward to seeing what msten and a little more test can offer.
MrKleen73
Legend
Everything I said in my post was serious, not talking about the weather... way to be dismissive to those trying to help.Well this conversation is all fine and dandy but has anybody any input on why osta elevated enzymes so much and why TT is zero and LH normal and what to do with PCT???? I mean as much as I appreciate talking about the "weather" this is kinda, khm... serious!
Ostarine does not only effect cortisol, that is it's anticatabolic effect, but it also binds too and acts on the Androgen receptors. Yes it is a mild anabolic but you can most definitely make gains on good ostarine. The reason it was used for muscle wasting is that it is anabloci enough to maintain, or build muscle for those who are bed ridden, not getting in enough calories or otherwise need something to boost the muscle building capacity. The precise mechanism that makes it work for fighting muscle wasting is what it can be used for with higher doses and people working out alongside it. You just have to realize they are not going to be any better than high dosing one of the DHEA based PH's. You also have to realize that once you get into 10mg plus then you have already tripled the dosing it was tested at so you have to expect the sides will be amplified.
Too many things can mess with liver values, and to be honest the OP's are high but not OH MY GOD, and will easily be back to normal 1 month post cycle unless he has something already wrong with his liver that is. Hell really no reason to tank the cycle just add in liver supports, increase water intake and finish it out. Hell finish it out with something stronger like Var. Apparently it is actually metabolized in the kidneys and isn't going to crush your liver values like other anabolics. I think even Chados will agree with me that Var is stronger than Osta.
(Inside joke)
Chados
Well-known member
Everything I said in my post was serious, not talking about the weather... way to be dismissive to those trying to help.
Ostarine does not only effect cortisol, that is it's anticatabolic effect, but it also binds too and acts on the Androgen receptors. Yes it is a mild anabolic but you can most definitely make gains on good ostarine. The reason it was used for muscle wasting is that it is anabloci enough to maintain, or build muscle for those who are bed ridden, not getting in enough calories or otherwise need something to boost the muscle building capacity. The precise mechanism that makes it work for fighting muscle wasting is what it can be used for with higher doses and people working out alongside it. You just have to realize they are not going to be any better than high dosing one of the DHEA based PH's. You also have to realize that once you get into 10mg plus then you have already tripled the dosing it was tested at so you have to expect the sides will be amplified.
Too many things can mess with liver values, and to be honest the OP's are high but not OH MY GOD, and will easily be back to normal 1 month post cycle unless he has something already wrong with his liver that is. Hell really no reason to tank the cycle just add in liver supports, increase water intake and finish it out. Hell finish it out with something stronger like Var. Apparently it is actually metabolized in the kidneys and isn't going to crush your liver values like other anabolics. I think even Chados will agree with me that Var is stronger than Osta.
Haha every aas is stronger than osta from my experience. You can for sure build but it's not aas
Jinsun
Well-known member
Wasn't trying to be condensing mate. Sorry if it came out that way.
Too many things can mess with liver values, and to be honest the OP's are high but not OH MY GOD, and will easily be back to normal 1 month post cycle unless he has something already wrong with his liver that is. Hell really no reason to tank the cycle just add in liver supports, increase water intake and finish it out. Hell finish it out with something stronger like Var. Apparently it is actually metabolized in the kidneys and isn't going to crush your liver values like other anabolics. I think even Chados will agree with me that Var is stronger than Osta.
Interesting how we all have different ranges to where we are willing to go
8x higher is for me a no go. At least not for 12 months. To me, such a high value on something so mild as osta tells me that there is something wrong with the way the body is metabolising it. I also started breaking out on my face, which I really don't want as I deal with people a lot in my carer. And I don't have b5 or tane at my side.Also the zero TT and 3.0 LH kinda threw me off balance. Nobody has yet to offer how that works. Which means that god knows what's going on with my balls. I do plan to have kids one day and don't want some stupid RC to f*ck that up.
solidsnake
Well-known member
I’d just concentrate on getting back to normal bro, looks like this could be an unsolved mystery...
solidsnake
Well-known member
With me, robert stack! 
Jinsun
Well-known member
Maybe I should register and post about this, just to have some laughs, at Dgemelli' forum
solidsnake
Well-known member
You’d be instabanned for saying anything less than ostarine gave you sd mass and zero sides. And of course, pct would have to be hcgenerate, cardarine, sr9009, mk677 rad140 and lgd. Costing you just over 1000 bucks but wait... pm him and he’ll give a discount code of 5%
MrKleen73
Legend
Wasn't trying to be condensing mate. Sorry if it came out that way.
Interesting how we all have different ranges to where we are willing to go
Also the zero TT and 3.0 LH kinda threw me off balance. Nobody has yet to offer how that works. Which means that god knows what's going on with my balls. I do plan to have kids one day and don't want some stupid RC to f*ck that up.
Yeah, I was basically speaking to the liver values but not sure where the 12 months thing came in. I guess I missed that, but yeah I wouldn't want my liver values to be high for that long either. However the liver can regenerate itself quite easily, that is what it does. Dies off from toxins and regenerates, I posted a link in another thread stating that half of the liver could die off from something like a tylenol overdose and be completely regenerated 30 days later. Also why I mentioned Var if you wanted to complete the cycle with another compound. It is much easier on the liver and is metabolized in the kidneys instead. Something I just learned myself.
To me it sounded like you had basically come to the conclusion that it has been spiked with something more androgenic. The mention of the acne on the face and it only happening on stronger androgens and what not. So i figured you had kind of come to a conclusion on that aspect of it. It is definitely a puzzling situation.
Nac
Well-known member
Wrt the TT decrease, Dalton's early studies noted it (as well as a drop in SHBG). So its "typical" for this compound.
You guys, IMO, run it way too high. 5mg shouldnt "tank" hdl nor inflate ldl, yet should be ample for retaining muscle on a cut (depending on how aggressive the cut is). If youre dosing 10mg+ "for te gainz", Id consider another compound instead.
You guys, IMO, run it way too high. 5mg shouldnt "tank" hdl nor inflate ldl, yet should be ample for retaining muscle on a cut (depending on how aggressive the cut is). If youre dosing 10mg+ "for te gainz", Id consider another compound instead.
Jinsun
Well-known member
You’d be instabanned for saying anything less than ostarine gave you sd mass and zero sides. And of course, pct would have to be hcgenerate, cardarine, sr9009, mk677 rad140 and lgd. Costing you just over 1000 bucks but wait... pm him and he’ll give a discount code of 5%
No, I probably didn't mention that I had planed a 12w cycle. It was just enough for me to lose al the bf. And I get bad skin from freaking tbooster's, so I'm no reference regarding that. But thought it would be better with osta.
Regarding liver damage: yeah it regenerates but if scar tissue builds up you get cirrhotic liver. New tissue is never as good, that's why there's more of it. I'm no doctor though and my knowledge on liver repair is limited.
Oh, and what's that about var? Srsly?
Oh tnx for reminding me of that study. I've never read it fully. Now I see that it lowers TT quicker then free T. Probably why I don't fell like sh*t with having zero TT:
"In men, no statistically significant differences from placebo in change from baseline values for free testosterone, DHT, estradiol, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), or LH were observed at any GTx-024 dose. However, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) was significantly (P = 0.048) reduced with GTx-024 3 mg versus placebo, −15.8 ± 7.9 nmol/L. The decrease in SHBG was accompanied by a reduction of serum total testosterone in subjects treated with 1 mg (P < 0.001) or 3 mg (P < 0.001) of GTx-024 compared to placebo, −6.4 ± 1.1 nmol/L and −7.4 ± 1.0 (Table 5). "
And also, in the study they found that it did raise liver enzymes! Why the hell doesn't this fact get more exposure? One person even had to be removed from the study, as his ALT level had risen to 4.5x above upper limit. And 8 subjects had ALT at the upper limit. All of this at 3mg! So it's no wonder that there are some of us that have it so high. A friend did bloods today from two days on osta and her ALT is already 2x the upper limit.
Soooo I think we can let OL UK off the hook. And talk about purity and spiking can also be canned. It's obvious that osta is quite hard on the liver. And I bet if others would all do AST ALT readings while one cycle we would have much more threads like this. Damn, osta is a piece of garbage
for me at least it's totally not worth it results/sides.KarrionKloud9
New member
Hi I ( female) am on week 5 of ostarine (first sarm ever) and just had my blood work done last week. My liver enzymes are actually lower than last year (normal) and all my hormones are normal except for 0 testosterone of course and oddly enough, almost 0 estrogen, even though I have been taking estradiol (birth control) only for the fact my pituitary gland doesn't produce enough (usually I at least have as much estrogen as a young boy though lol) OH and my IGF has doubled but I think it's because I have been sleeping like a baby for 8 hours a day since Osta (instead of 3 hours a day like before, but I quit taking Adderall in January so that could bd it too. I dont drink or anything, I've been taking milk thistle and typical fitness supplements and on rest days nootropic / natural herbs like Rhodolia or White Kratom once a week, I eat 100% home cooked organic / grass fed food, no sugar other than fruit twice a week.)
I am about to add Cardarine and s4 and will get my blood redone in June or July.
I am about to add Cardarine and s4 and will get my blood redone in June or July.
Chados
Well-known member
S4 is not for women. Stick with ostarine
KarrionKloud9
New member
Thank you.. If I trying the s4 what should I look out for to know it would be bad to continue or not? I already have the bottle and I'm too curious. Ostarine healed my torn bi tendon and I have no more joint pain or compressed nerves, but my strength is the same and low energy, always feel wiped out which is unlike me, (usually I can't stand still , I don't own a couch or chair) my weight is the same but more vascular and gained half inch on arms and butt and chest, I guess I look more beast but just don't feel like one, and have 7 more weeks left
Jinsun
Well-known member
KarrionKloud9 Having zero T and zero e2 will make you feel like sh*t. I don't know much about women and hormones but I think that it's worst for women to have zero estrogen than men.
Interesting that you have double the igf. Tnx for sharing. What brand ostarine are you using and at what dose?
Interesting that you have double the igf. Tnx for sharing. What brand ostarine are you using and at what dose?
dvw
Well-known member
500 mg is your trt dose?
wrugg08
New member
Ive used Sarms and PPARs for 7 yrs now and had blood tests after each cycle because I am on TRT and never had side effects from osta, lgd or gw. Osta had little suppression @12mgs mgs, Lgd mild suppression @25mgs and hurt my HDL and Gw zero negative effects. This year i bought OL UK lgd, osta, and gw and used each individually with major side effects from each. All of which made me feel like i was taking AAS. So I went to a lab to check out what the hell i was taking and found i was right about them being AAS. Clen was passed as gw just to give you an idea of what the others were.
solidsnake
Well-known member
No being funny dude but out of all the forums in the world this is the last place you want to be slating Olympus Lab’s, they practically own the place.. you’ll be getting smashed around soon. (Cyberwise speaking of course) Good luck with that weather your statements are true or troll
wrugg08
New member
I had used their gw in the past and swore by them. I even started a post awhile back about the legiitamacy of it, but now im burnt. I cant trust them anymore. Im not trolling. My user experience take or leave it.
YoungThor
Well-known member
Day 4 of ostarine cycle here and I already feel an ache in my liver. I’m hoping I’m just being a hypochondriac but I’ll add milk thistle today to play it safe. I’m only running 10 mg a day for 8 weeks which is lower than most people but I like to have a couple beers a few nights a week so I’m afraid I might be at risk for some liver issues anyway. Seems like with all the conflicting information on osta, it’s not even worth risking your body considering the gains are minimal. Still, I’ll continue my cycle and hopefully make it through the 8 weeks without paranoia getting the best of me.
And somebody mentioned balding. Are you serious? The one study quoted in here mentioned no change in DHT (at 3 mg). Isn’t DHT primarily responsible for balding?
And somebody mentioned balding. Are you serious? The one study quoted in here mentioned no change in DHT (at 3 mg). Isn’t DHT primarily responsible for balding?
solidsnake
Well-known member
Hypo for sure bro, relax. You need to be in the right frame of mind to be taking peds or you’ll consume yourself in worry
YoungThor
Well-known member
Thanks man. I needed that. I gotta stay focused so I don’t jump ship.
Chados
Well-known member
Supposedly it's actually healthy for the liver.
dvw
Well-known member
Definitely post bloods please.
Chados
Well-known member
lol this thread is bringing out the hypo's in everybody.
Ppl if you don't have anything pertinent to add to the discussion...well you get the point
It's not gonna be as liver toxic as this thread might suggest for sure . Could it have a little toxicity? Absolutely, but I don't think anyone takes aas because they want their liver to be healthy. There are thousands of reasons one could have have bad liver values.