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Compound 20 ingredient released

Wouldnt really be a point...youd be better off stacking with something that would give complimentary effects but used different pathways, like Erase for instance. Using a strong AI like Erase would stack great here for hardness and lean mass
 
nattydisaster said:
Wouldnt really be a point...youd be better off stacking with something that would give complimentary effects but used different pathways, like Erase for instance. Using a strong AI like Erase would stack great here for hardness and lean mass
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lol already taking erase but thanks for the suggestion :P

Would you recommend taking ketotifen or benadryl to restore my receptors before jumping onto something else, like ECA or Alpha-t2?

Or is that not necessary ??
 
i think alpha t2 would still be beneficial though... youd get 2 beta receptor agonists... yes... BUT youd also get the effects of the alpha receptor antagonist AY and the thyroid increase from t2...

Id be willing to stack the 2 if my goals were fatloss.
 
dlucks said:
lol already taking erase but thanks for the suggestion :P

Would you recommend taking ketotifen or benadryl to restore my receptors before jumping onto something else, like ECA or Alpha-t2?

Or is that not necessary ??
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the amount of suppression and need to "restore" receptors is due to the constant exposure to beta agonists with REALLY long half lives like clen...

the ingredients in C20 do not have a 36 hour half life.... I doubt they even have a 6 hour half life... I dont think suppression or degredation and retraction of the beta receptor is going to be an issue here... JMO
 
dlucks said:
Would stacking this with albuterol or eca be bad since they use the same receptors?
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Edit: didn't see the above posts. So I'm on the wrong idea. I was using ephedra tho too.

Starting erase, at2, urso, anabeta... Throwing xtract in 3 days prior to cruise.. Cruise december 25-jan1. Time to get shredded! V taper!

I've used albuterol twice while on ursobolic (I'm sure you're asking regarding c20) but I have noticed no ill effects.. Lately I've been getting exercised induced asthma from insane amounts of hiit cardio lol. But using my brothers inhaler twice since October, I've been good...
 
dlucks said:
Would stacking this with albuterol or eca be bad since they use the same receptors?
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Your comparing crack to caffeine. If your taking crack whats the point of washing it down with caffeine?
 
IM keen to try this in the nw yr apparantly usp said its not avail to purchase in the US or UK (were im at) yet for another 6-8wks so its gonna be on the list to try next yr,
anything thats natural that could take off fat/lean and harden me up with no dietry changes is the holy grail imo
 
dlucks said:
lol already taking erase but thanks for the suggestion :P

Would you recommend taking ketotifen or benadryl to restore my receptors before jumping onto something else, like ECA or Alpha-t2?

Or is that not necessary ??
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Well first off. It doesnt work... Benadryl does not "restore your receptors."
 
miniarnold said:
IM keen to try this in the nw yr apparantly usp said its not avail to purchase in the US or UK (were im at) yet for another 6-8wks so its gonna be on the list to try next yr,
anything thats natural that could take off fat/lean and harden me up with no dietry changes is the holy grail imo
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If thats what you want, you want significant results without changing anything you need to take something that has alot of side effects.
 
Daycrawler said:
Well first off. It doesnt work... Benadryl does not "restore your receptors."
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We dont know if it does or doesnt work...we dont know for sure either way unless you have a real human study that supports any definitive statement.
 
ax1 said:
We dont know if it does or doesnt work...we dont know for sure either way unless you have a real human study that supports any definitive statement.
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we dont know whether tangerines cure cancer either i guess then cuz no real human study has been done

u must have had the same science professor that eric marchevitz and jacob giesler had


there should at least be a theoretical basis to stand on, and there isnt even a theoretical basis for benadryl and beta2 receptor downregulation that i am aware of
 
Patrick Arnold said:
we dont know whether tangerines cure cancer either i guess then cuz no real human study has been done

u must have had the same science professor that eric marchevitz and jacob giesler had

there should at least be a theoretical basis to stand on, and there isnt even a theoretical basis for benadryl and beta2 receptor downregulation that i am aware of
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Thanks. Took words out of my mouth.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
we dont know whether tangerines cure cancer either i guess then cuz no real human study has been done

u must have had the same science professor that eric marchevitz and jacob giesler had


there should at least be a theoretical basis to stand on, and there isnt even a theoretical basis for benadryl and beta2 receptor downregulation that i am aware of
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My scientists primarily study out of books that the Russians donated to us back in the 50's after we demolished the imperialist west during the war. The task of translating material is a tough task.

There are claims on that steroids website comparing benadryl to ketotifen since they are both anti-histimine.

I dunno..I never claimed anything I just said we dont know for sure. Personally Id use keto if I used that crap
 
ax1 said:
My scientists primarily study out of books that the Russians donated to us back in the 50's after we demolished the imperialist west during the war. The task of translating material is a tough task.

There are claims on that steroids website comparing benadryl to ketotifen since they are both anti-histimine.

I dunno..I never claimed anything I just said we dont know for sure. Personally Id use keto if I used that crap
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ketotifen is also anti-serotonin
 
Sourdough said:
sounds like a fun way to get depressed and feel like crap from clen at the same time!!!
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brain chemistry is way more complicated than that

there actually is an anti-depressant out there now thats an anti-serotonin

none of it makes any sense to be honest
 
wow... i think they just keep throwin pills at the wall and see which ones stick, be damned of how they do though...
 
ax1 said:
We dont know if it does or doesnt work...we dont know for sure either way unless you have a real human study that supports any definitive statement.
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Quite often people misattribute the better, deeper sleep while on benadryl as reseting the receptors...

Of course if you're getting better sleep you wont need to use stimulants to keep you awake.
 
ax1 said:
If thats what you want, you want significant results without changing anything you need to take something that has alot of side effects.
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AGREED,
was just thinking of the so called natty supps that could poss if ery lucky take some fat off/harden up with no change in diet and can only think of ursobolic and c20 again maybe, and possibly and if they were effective to a decent extent that would be great for all,
but as said i agree it could be a tall order and to far fetched, and getting good results with no other changes usually takes a drug or some type of gear but maybe one of the 2 natty supps could give reasonable/modest results in fat loss with no dietry changes, one can wish hey it seems to be possible for some.
 
none...

found out they are extracting for other triterpenoids found in symplocos racemosa uniquely and used the study for Ursolic Acid in their writeup as a general example of what these triterpenoids can do... and supposedly even better then UA...
 
Ok wasnt sure if it did have any, but what it does have could be similar and as good as actual ua?
waiting for the new version of ursol xt to come out to see how much actual ua is in the improved version but i guess that will be a long way off yet
Cheers man
 
i could care less how much UA they put in the new Ursol XT as long as its properly complexed with a cyclodextrin...


as for the compound 20... dude... its pretty damn effective and IMO should stack well with other UA products to accentuate its effects.... just try it.
 
Sourdough said:
i could care less how much UA they put in the new Ursol XT as long as its properly complexed with a cyclodextrin...

that means the cyclodextrin makes it more effective and bioavailable? still gonna wait till the new batch tho

as for the compound 20... dude... its pretty damn effective and IMO should stack well with other UA products to accentuate its effects.... just try it.
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i would but have to wait months for it to land in the uk
 
miniarnold said:
Patrick Arnold said:
or does that mean you hope...

drop it.......i was asking what cyclodextrin will do, if you dont like the convo dont have an input!
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i have researched ursolic acid and cyclodextrin and it complexes very poorly and difficultly and offers little advantage. i am trying to tell you to drop it so you dont waste your time talking about it. i suspect i wont be successful though
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Patrick Arnold said:
miniarnold said:
i have researched ursolic acid and cyclodextrin and it complexes very poorly and difficultly and offers little advantage. i am trying to tell you to drop it so you dont waste your time talking about it. i suspect i wont be successful though
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Fair point you know more than me as said i just asked if cyclodetrin makes the ingrediants more effective, but this thread is discussing c20 wether or not its a good or ****ty supp for people who are interested in it, we can talk all day about it, it shouldnt bother you anyhow if its not as good as ursobolic then you shouldnt care at all.
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miniarnold said:
Patrick Arnold said:
Fair point you know more than me as said i just asked if cyclodetrin makes the ingrediants more effective, but this thread is discussing c20 wether or not its a good or ****ty supp for people who are interested in it, we can talk all day about it, it shouldnt bother you anyhow if its not as good as ursobolic then you shouldnt care at all.
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i care about cyclodextrin
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Royd The Noyd said:
Ursolic Acid is really a good compound. We still think the big issues with it are the solubility. And getting it complexed will improve it greatly. Just so you guys dont think I'm full of it....here is the research:

Invalid Link Removed 2006 Feb 14;12(6):874-9.Anti-hepatoma activity and mechanism of ursolic acid and its derivatives isolated from Aralia decaisneana.

Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.
Source

Department of Pharmacology, Institute of Medicinal Plant Development, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences, Peking Union Medical College, Beijing 100094, China. [email protected]

Abstract

AIM:

To investigate the anti-tumor activity of ursolic acid (UA) and its derivatives isolated from Aralia decaisneana on hepatocellular carcinoma both in vitro and in vivo.
METHODS:

In vivo cytotoxicity was first screened by 3-[4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl]-2, 5-diphenyltetrazolium bromide (MTT) assay. Morphological observation, DNA ladder, flow cytometry analysis, Western blot and real time PCR were employed to elucidate the cytotoxic mechanism of UA. Implanted mouse hepatoma H22 was used to evaluate the growth inhibitory effect of UA in vivo.
RESULTS:

UA could significantly inhibit the proliferation of HepG2 and its drug-resistance strain, R-HepG2 cells, but had no inhibitory effect on primarily cultured normal mouse hepatocytes whereas all the six derivatives of UA could not inhibit the growth of all tested cell lines. Further study on mechanism demonstrated that apoptosis and G0/G1 arrest were involved in the cytotoxicity and cleavage of poly-(ADP-ribose)-polymerase (PARP). Downregulation of cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) protein and upregulation of heat shock protein (HSP) 105 mRNA correlated to the apoptosis of HepG2 cells treated with UA. In addition, UA also could inhibit the growth of H22 hepatoma in vivo.
CONCLUSION:

UA is a promising anti-tumor agent, but further work needs to be done to improve its solubility.

PMID: 16521214 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Free full text



Invalid Link Removed 2009;10(4):1137-44. Epub 2009 Oct 16.The influence of cosolvent on the complexation of HP-beta-cyclodextrins with oleanolic acid and ursolic acid.

Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed, Invalid Link Removed.
Source

Department of Pharmaceutics, School of Pharmacy, Nanjing Medical University, 140 Hanzhong Road, 210029, Nanjing, People's Republic of China.

Abstract

The present work was aimed at the influence of ethanol on the complex formation of hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (HP-beta-CD) with oleanolic acid (OA) and ursolic acid (UA), two insoluble isomeric triterpenic acids. Phase solubility studies were carried out to evaluate the solubilizing power of HP-beta-CD, in association with ethanol, toward OA and UA. A mathematical model was applied to explain and predict the solubility of OA and UA influenced by HP-beta-CD and ethanol. The solid complexes were prepared by evaporating the filtrate of samples which was prepared in different complexing media. The solubility of OA is much higher than that of UA in all the tested aqueous solutions. The solubility of OA and UA can be increased over 900 and 200 times, respectively, by forming complex with HP-beta-CD. Ethanol (0.5%, v/v) can help the formation of OA-HP-beta-CD complex, but is harmful to the formation of UA-HP-beta-CD complex. Increasing solubility in water can be achieved by adding ethanol into the complexing media, but the concentration of ethanol should be optimized. The ring E of the chemical compounds has a great influence on the complexing process.

PMID: 19834815 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC2799583

Invalid Link Removed



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this is the basis on which FRL is saying a Cyclo UA can be done and will create an advantage...

Im not arguing their point for them, just interested in what your thoughts are on this...

Royd has made mention of it being "200" times (maybe percent, which is obviously a big difference) more effective then standard UA...


clicking on the arrow next to his name in the quote will take you to the thread....



just lookin for answers here...
 
ok so 200 times more soluble... which obviously isnt "stronger" but im sure he said something along those lines...
 
Sourdough said:
this is the basis on which FRL is saying a Cyclo UA can be done and will create an advantage...

Im not arguing their point for them, just interested in what your thoughts are on this...

Royd has made mention of it being "200" times (maybe percent, which is obviously a big difference) more effective then standard UA...


clicking on the arrow next to his name in the quote will take you to the thread....



just lookin for answers here...
Click to expand...


Its important to remember that the study used highly pure ursolic acid and not extract. and this is not a procedure that is going to be financially and technically practical for any company.
 
Sourdough said:
ok so 200 times more soluble... which obviously isnt "stronger" but im sure he said something along those lines...
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you have to remember that the water solubility of ursolic acid to begin with is close to zero. so multiplying a number that is almost zero by 200 still gives you a very small number and nothing to jump for joy about

other CD derivatives like gamma may work a little better but i havent seen anything in the literature which looks practical and worthwhile
 
Sourdough said:
ok so 200 times more soluble... which obviously isnt "stronger" but im sure he said something along those lines...
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FRL admitted their product is not even complexed with the cyclodextrin. Its a physical mixture. so this is a moot point

its like swallowing peanut butter and chocolate and expecting a receess peanut butter cup to come out your ass
 
UA was a valid portion of this topic as it was, considering the writeup and studies cited by uspl... Turns out compound 20 targets other triterpenoids that are supposedly even more effective at the recomp effect(fat burning, muscle building) then UA...

What these are, idk.

Side tangents occur in nearly every thread though.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
FRL admitted their product is not even complexed with the cyclodextrin. Its a physical mixture. so this is a moot point

its like swallowing peanut butter and chocolate and expecting a receess peanut butter cup to come out your ass
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I wasn't arguing the point for him, just stating what was said... I already knew it wasn't complexed and basically the cyclo was now a worthless addition. Nice analogy though.
 
Sourdough said:
UA was a valid portion of this topic as it was, considering the writeup and studies cited by uspl... Turns out compound 20 targets other triterpenoids that are supposedly even more effective at the recomp effect(fat burning, muscle building) then UA...

What these are, idk.
.
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its like their L-dopa is different than other L-dopas. and their tribulus is secret sub species. and the list goes on and on

its called marketing BS
 
Patrick Arnold said:
its like their L-dopa is different than other L-dopas. and their tribulus is secret sub species. and the list goes on and on

its called marketing BS
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On the other hand, we put the product in users hands before release instead of claiming great personal experience as the formulator with a said supplement and it flopping at the consumer level.

it's called a money grap......You have to pay the bills..

Consider a name change....Ursodumb

Those intrested it's 14.99 at Nutraplanet...
 
USProduct-Edu said:
On the other hand, we put the product in users hands before release instead of claiming great personal experience as the formulator with a said supplement and it flopping at the consumer level.

it's called a money grap......You have to pay the bills..

Consider a name change....Ursodumb

Those intrested it's 14.99 at Nutraplanet...
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Ha, nice comeback :)

Any news on when compound 20 will make it to nutraplanet, on that note?
 
USProduct-Edu said:
On the other hand, we put the product in users hands before release instead of claiming great personal experience as the formulator with a said supplement and it flopping at the consumer level.

it's called a money grap......You have to pay the bills..

Consider a name change....Ursodumb

Those intrested it's 14.99 at Nutraplanet...
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that product you call a dump is selling extraordinarily well. and without lies
 
nattydisaster said:
Kinda sucks that every time PA posts in a thread everyone has to start arguing about UA to him. Start some new threads
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Think it would help if those posts weren't ****ting on other companies... for the most part I think PA brings his own drama.

Patrick Arnold said:
FRL admitted their product is not even complexed with the cyclodextrin. Its a physical mixture. so this is a moot point
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Patrick Arnold said:

its like swallowing peanut butter and chocolate and expecting a receess peanut butter cup to come out your ass
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Even there in his post about FRL, the way it's phrased implied that FRL intended to trick consumers into buying a non-complexed product when in fact they came forward and said that they had asked for it to be complexed and that the manufacturer ****ed up or at least had misunderstood the instructions.

PA's a smart guy and for the most part I enjoy his posted, but on the other hand if anyone dare disagree with him on a compound the implication is that they're mentally impaired. It's his arrogance that has contributed to him doing great work but also on the flip side being a huge douche. Most of us endure it because of what he has brought to the supplement world and his unique insights, but some it's just abrasive and trolling.

I can see both sides to the argument... some have their own reason to not like PA, some love him ... and thats ok.
 
Patrick Arnold said:
that product you call a dump is selling extraordinarily well. and without lies
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It is selling based purely on your reputation at 14.99 price tag (I call that the o ****, I got to dump it price) and your feedback.

You sir had extra-ordinary results. The consumer results are less than stellar...and saying that is a compliment.

Your customer feels lied too...judging by the feedback.
 
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