Clomid during cycle

[50Magnum]

Heres an update on my enclomiphene and 50 mg of anavar results after 5 and a half weeks. My baseline is 404, after getting bloodwork my test levels are at 367 estradiol is 65(pretty high my natty estro is at 39) and my fsh is at 6.2. I have been running enclomiphene at 12.5mg 6 times a week 1 day off and 50mg of dhea per day(probably why my estro levels are high). Safe to say I have barely gotten suppressed while doing this and I also threw in 25mg of tbol this week so that probably brought my test levels to shoot a lil less. Overall it is safe to say that I barely gotten suppressed doing this, now I would only do this 8 weeks or even 10 weeks max.

 

[Lynks8]

Heres an update on my enclomiphene and 50 mg of anavar results after 5 and a half weeks. My baseline is 404, after getting bloodwork my test levels are at 367 estradiol is 65(pretty high my natty estro is at 39) and my fsh is at 6.2. I have been running enclomiphene at 12.5mg 6 times a week 1 day off and 50mg of dhea per day(probably why my estro levels are high). Safe to say I have barely gotten suppressed while doing this and I also threw in 25mg of tbol this week so that probably brought my test levels to shoot a lil less. Overall it is safe to say that I barely gotten suppressed doing this, now I would only do this 8 weeks or even 10 weeks max.

Awesome info. Glad it's working so well for you. You using En-clofert, I assume?

 

[50Magnum]

Awesome info. Glad it's working so well for you. You using En-clofert, I assume?

Yes I'm using enclofert; but I am wondering why the hell my estro went to 65; when I did clomiphene 25mg eod with 10mg lgd everyday; estro was at like 49(still high) I was also running dhea at 50mg per day that time too.

 

[Renew1]

Yes I'm using enclofert; but I am wondering why the hell my estro went to 65; when I did clomiphene 25mg eod with 10mg lgd everyday; estro was at like 49(still high) I was also running dhea at 50mg per day that time too.

I was assuming that you just ran Clomid.

Are you sure of your source?

 

[50Magnum]

I was assuming that you just ran Clomid.

Are you sure of your source?

yes a 100%; I get vision sides from clomid all the time, enclomiphene no sides at all. I'm very positive if I ran 25mg of clomid 4x a week my levels would be in the gutter like everyone else's even if my lh and fsh go up a little. Like I said I've done bloodwork on clomid by itself after PCT 50mg per day; my estro levels dont get high unless I stack it with something like diesel test and even that it stays around 30-40 with test levels at 880-900 not 65. LGD and clomid my estro was at 49 at 479 test; so it could be the enclomiphene, I seen people who were prescribed enclomiphene get over 1000 test but there estro gets to like 150-200 at 25mg per day. I forgot to mention I also run 1 tab of diesel test raw a day so that could also be the culprit; it has pregnologne in it.

 

[Hyde]

Heres an update on my enclomiphene and 50 mg of anavar results after 5 and a half weeks. My baseline is 404, after getting bloodwork my test levels are at 367 estradiol is 65(pretty high my natty estro is at 39) and my fsh is at 6.2. I have been running enclomiphene at 12.5mg 6 times a week 1 day off and 50mg of dhea per day(probably why my estro levels are high). Safe to say I have barely gotten suppressed while doing this and I also threw in 25mg of tbol this week so that probably brought my test levels to shoot a lil less. Overall it is safe to say that I barely gotten suppressed doing this, now I would only do this 8 weeks or even 10 weeks max.

Very cool results!

Please post the actual bloodwork (sans your personal information).

 

[50Magnum]

Here it is

 

[Hyde]

Here it is

Thank you! THIS is what guys have been after. Not me, but this will really help someone. Probably many guys.

The interesting part is you aren’t only using DHT derivatives - the DHEA being in there is almost assuredly raising estrogen, which should in theory lower your total test. And yet, you are most definitely not suppressed after nearly 6 weeks. Extrapolating from that anecdote, someone could probably run Dbol or something aromatizing and still get similar results.

 

[50Magnum]

Thank you! THIS is what guys have been after. Not me, but this will really help someone. Probably many guys.

The interesting part is you aren’t only using DHT derivatives - the DHEA being in there is almost assuredly raising estrogen, which should in theory lower your total test. And yet, you are most definitely not suppressed after nearly 6 weeks. Extrapolating from that anecdote, someone could probably run Dbol or something aromatizing and still get similar results.

maybe low dose dbol; but something like superdrol or dmz I dunno man those are some pretty strong compounds. Anadrol possibly work because they say even by itself it isnt very suppressive based on studies I've seen where people took anadrol for 6 months straight and got 50-60% suppression and then you have people who say its super suppressive. Overall we know this works for sarms and orals liek tbol and var. But the stronger compounds you might not get shutdown but there probably will be a good amount of suppression. I ran 50mg of dhea cause I saw logs of people running it with clomid and enclomiphene and it boosted levels up higher than by itself. Would def like to see a log of someone running enclomiphene with a stronger oral; mind you I did 12.5mg 6x week; someone doing 25mg daily with a stronger oral might be able to get minimal suppression, but then again who knows.

 

[Jinsun]

Well people react very differently to androgens in regards to suppression. So there's that. Also, some stuff just shut's down your nuts but leaves LH levels elevated. Ostarine for example, week 5 (25mg), TT almost zero, LH normal levels. I doubt that in that case hcg or enclomiphene would help.

Do we know by what mechanism enclomiphen actually works on the gonads? I am talking about other mechanism then blocking estrogen receptors at the hypothalamus. It's kinda implying that it works similar to hcg, acting directly on the nuts.

 

[CroLifter]

Came here to bash taking clomid constantly, left feeling intrigued.

Its interesting to see your e2 so high actually. Its a good thing. Lack of e2 can cost you gains on a dry oral cycle, this way your anabolism is higher.

I cant see myself taking clomid though i wouod be having fits of rage all the time, but i guess enclomiphene could work if it doesnt have that estrogenic component to it.




I will add my experience thpugh. In may i started test e and only did 3 iniections of 80mg before i decided to stop and wait till july to cycle lol . I waited 10 days after last 80mg injection and took clomid for 4 days at 50/50/25/25 (was reading some dumb sh1t on 2 week cycles) I had no suppression that i could feel and actually i kept the pumps and fullness that i attained from these 3 injections (very low natural test so i hyper respond to very low dose).

So 3 injections of 80mg of test e i w0uld say didnt even suppress me 50%. I can tell when i am very suppressed, i feel lethargic, have low bp and feel anxiety.

Also my test judging by feel and pumps and fullness is higher now after this summer cycle i have done than it was before it, i think its due to the pct i did i kinda reset.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Heres an update on my enclomiphene and 50 mg of anavar results after 5 and a half weeks. My baseline is 404, after getting bloodwork my test levels are at 367 estradiol is 65(pretty high my natty estro is at 39) and my fsh is at 6.2. I have been running enclomiphene at 12.5mg 6 times a week 1 day off and 50mg of dhea per day(probably why my estro levels are high). Safe to say I have barely gotten suppressed while doing this and I also threw in 25mg of tbol this week so that probably brought my test levels to shoot a lil less. Overall it is safe to say that I barely gotten suppressed doing this, now I would only do this 8 weeks or even 10 weeks max.

So the thesis is, on a mild cycle, using enclomiphene can maintain some of your bodies on testosterone levels. Am I reading that right?

 

[Hyde]

So the thesis is, on a mild cycle, using enclomiphene can maintain some of your bodies on testosterone levels. Am I reading that right?

It did for him using a bit of Var & Tbol with some DHEA. Pretty low doses, but still neat.

 

[ValiantThor08]

It did for him using a bit of Var & Tbol with some DHEA. Pretty low doses, but still neat.

Do you think that would work with LGD?

 

[Jinsun]

It did for him using a bit of Var & Tbol with some DHEA. Pretty low doses, but still neat.

Not sure there was any tbol in there ...?

Pretty low doses, but still neat.

He used 50mg var, which if you ask me, is not a small dose - not in natty terms, it's heck of a lot more then natty, but you might consider it a small dose in bb terms. In regards of anabolism, that should be around 500mg test, no? So not being suppressed on 50mg var is quite an achievement (taking into account that it's not under dosed off course).

 

[Hyde]

Do you think that would work with LGD?

My bropinion is if it worked with a DHT derivative it would work with a SARM. Maybe not at an actual equivalent mg, but doses guys actually use LGD at.

That is purely my speculation!

Not sure there was any tbol in there ...?



He used 50mg var, which if you ask me, is not a small dose - not in natty terms, it's heck of a lot more then natty, but you might consider it a small dose in bb terms. In regards of anabolism, that should be around 500mg test, no? So not being suppressed on 50mg var is quite an achievement (taking into account that it's not under dosed off course).

He mentioned adding 25mg Tbol towards the end of his 5.5 weeks in his post. Not the entire run though.

 

[Jinsun]

My bropinion is if it worked with a DHT derivative it would work with a SARM. Maybe not at an actual equivalent mg, but doses guys actually use LGD at.

That is purely my speculation!



He mentioned adding 25mg Tbol towards the end of his 5.5 weeks in his post. Not the entire run though.

I'll just add my scepticism, for the sake of scrutiny; 50mg var + 25mg tbol is hella of a dose to have TT at a normal level with a serm. If the drugs were not underdosed and if magnum is not an outlier, then this would be more or less of a game changer. His TT dropped an insignificant amount from baseline. This is like me having 700 TT (my baseline is 800 - 900). Just saying that anybody who gets to excited, keep in mind this is not science and there are a lot of variables here that are not accounted for.

 

[Hyde]

I'll just add my scepticism, for the sake of scrutiny; 50mg var + 25mg tbol is hella of a dose to have TT at a normal level with a serm. If the drugs were not underdosed and if magnum is not an outlier, then this would be more or less of a game changer. His TT dropped an insignificant amount from baseline. This is like me having 700 TT (my baseline is 800 - 900). Just saying that anybody who gets to excited, keep in mind this is not science and there are a lot of variables here that are not accounted for.

100%. We would need more guys using similar runs to corroborate. But it’s a very neat and fairly unexpected N=1 anecdote.

 

[CroLifter]

Not sure there was any tbol in there ...?



He used 50mg var, which if you ask me, is not a small dose - not in natty terms, it's heck of a lot more then natty, but you might consider it a small dose in bb terms. In regards of anabolism, that should be around 500mg test, no? So not being suppressed on 50mg var is quite an achievement (taking into account that it's not under dosed off course).

Hm...how did you come to that conclusion?



Why the hell do some people quote anavar as useless while others praise it? Why is there so much discrepancy?

in my mind it has to be because a ton of anavar is severely underdosed.


that being said var is less suppresive than test due to lack of aromatization.

 

[50Magnum]

There are alot of threads on reddit where I posted before where peps used AAS and enclomiphene; it worked for them staying at 600-800ng/dl test probably what their baseline is. Btw you can't compare 50mg of var a day to 500mg of test; even 250 mg of test per week beats it(u'll put on more size and overall strength towards the end). Any1 is free to try this experiment, because there are many threads on reddit like mine. Mind you I've done bloodwork on oral only cycles, sarms, etc. they all suppress me; last time I did an oral only cycle 6th week in my test levels were at 87. 50mg of var is better than most sarm cycles maybe besides s23 depending on how much you run but it still not as good as test gains.

 

[50Magnum]

Not sure there was any tbol in there ...?



He used 50mg var, which if you ask me, is not a small dose - not in natty terms, it's heck of a lot more then natty, but you might consider it a small dose in bb terms. In regards of anabolism, that should be around 500mg test, no? So not being suppressed on 50mg var is quite an achievement (taking into account that it's not under dosed off course).

Tbol is def in there; my lifts shot up significantly this week on a caloric deficit.

 

[ValiantThor08]

There are alot of threads on reddit where I posted before where peps used AAS and enclomiphene; it worked for them staying at 600-800ng/dl test probably what their baseline is. Btw you can't compare 50mg of var a day to 500mg of test; even 250 mg of test per week beats it(u'll put on more size and overall strength towards the end). Any1 is free to try this experiment, because there are many threads on reddit like mine. Mind you I've done bloodwork on oral only cycles, sarms, etc. they all suppress me; last time I did an oral only cycle 6th week in my test levels were at 87. 50mg of var is better than most sarm cycles maybe besides s23 depending on how much you run but it still not as good as test gains.

You have inspired me to run LGD at 20mg, with a SERM (probably nolva, due to my gyno).

 

[Hyde]

There are alot of threads on reddit where I posted before where peps used AAS and enclomiphene; it worked for them staying at 600-800ng/dl test probably what their baseline is. Btw you can't compare 50mg of var a day to 500mg of test; even 250 mg of test per week beats it(u'll put on more size and overall strength towards the end). Any1 is free to try this experiment, because there are many threads on reddit like mine. Mind you I've done bloodwork on oral only cycles, sarms, etc. they all suppress me; last time I did an oral only cycle 6th week in my test levels were at 87. 50mg of var is better than most sarm cycles maybe besides s23 depending on how much you run but it still not as good as test gains.

I appreciate your opinion, but you are kidding yourself if you truly think 350mg/wk of Var, a decidedly more anabolic substance that also hyperloads creatine, is less potent than 250mg test/wk. You may gain more water weight, but there is no way you will gain as much quality lean tissue in 12 weeks of 250 test e vs 50mg Var/day assuming you could hold 3-400 total test levels like you did. Adding 25mg Tbol/day (175mg/wk) on top and you’re at 525mg/wk of gear that’s more potent for athletic performance as well.

 

[CroLifter]

I appreciate your opinion, but you are kidding yourself if you truly think 350mg/wk of Var, a decidedly more anabolic substance that also hyperloads creatine, is less potent than 250mg test/wk. You may gain more water weight, but there is no way you will gain as much quality lean tissue in 12 weeks of 250 test e vs 50mg Var/day assuming you could hold 3-400 total test levels like you did. Adding 25mg Tbol/day (175mg/wk) on top and you’re at 525mg/wk of gear that’s more potent for athletic performance as well.

It would be interesting to compare.

test boosts estro also which will lead to higher igf 1 levels.

I can see 50mg a day of anavar with 250 test a week beating 500 test, but not so sure whether anavar will beat test on its own.

 

[50Magnum]

I appreciate your opinion, but you are kidding yourself if you truly think 350mg/wk of Var, a decidedly more anabolic substance that also hyperloads creatine, is less potent than 250mg test/wk. You may gain more water weight, but there is no way you will gain as much quality lean tissue in 12 weeks of 250 test e vs 50mg Var/day assuming you could hold 3-400 total test levels like you did. Adding 25mg Tbol/day (175mg/wk) on top and you’re at 525mg/wk of gear that’s more potent for athletic performance as well.

tbol and var together is better than 250mg of test but I'm talking var by itself. First of all if you are running var by itself and not doing this experiment like I did you are not going to be doing var for 12 weeks, more like 6 that was the most I was able to push it by doing an oral only cycle esp if its 50mg a day since you will end up feeling like ****. While with test you could do 10-12 weeks so your obviously going to build more muscle. But you may be right; I've never seen a log of some1 doing 50mg of anavar for 12 weeks vs I seen many logs of people doing 12 weeks of test. Like I said the most I ever ran any orals for was 6 weeks max, this is the first time I'm doing 8 weeks because of enclomiphene.

 

[50Magnum]

You have inspired me to run LGD at 20mg, with a SERM (probably nolva, due to my gyno).

Im never running LGD again; **** had me feeling like crap for 3 hours after dosing it then I would be fine after. Even while on clomid and not getting any suppression with LGD; I would get tired after dosing it for the first few hours. I would dose it post workout cause I got way to tired taking it pre workout. But yea enclomiphene will offset alot of suppression even at 20mg per day, dunno if its going to help with lethargy though 20mg is a hefty dose, even people on test feel lethargic on LGD, must just be a chemical response cause Rad 140 did the same thing for me while on test so I had to stop it, mix of anxiety and mental exhaustion, switched to anavar and boom felt so much better.

 

[ValiantThor08]

Im never running LGD again; **** had me feeling like crap for 3 hours after dosing it then I would be fine after. Even while on clomid and not getting any suppression with LGD; I would get tired after dosing it for the first few hours. I would dose it post workout cause I got way to tired taking it pre workout. But yea enclomiphene will offset alot of suppression even at 20mg per day, dunno if its going to help with lethargy though 20mg is a hefty dose, even people on test feel lethargic on LGD, must just be a chemical response cause Rad 140 did the same thing for me while on test so I had to stop it, mix of anxiety and mental exhaustion, switched to anavar and boom felt so much better.

Stims didn't even help the few hours of lethargy?

 

[CroLifter]

tbol and var together is better than 250mg of test but I'm talking var by itself. First of all if you are running var by itself and not doing this experiment like I did you are not going to be doing var for 12 weeks, more like 6 that was the most I was able to push it by doing an oral only cycle esp if its 50mg a day since you will end up feeling like ****. While with test you could do 10-12 weeks so your obviously going to build more muscle. But you may be right; I've never seen a log of some1 doing 50mg of anavar for 12 weeks vs I seen many logs of people doing 12 weeks of test. Like I said the most I ever ran any orals for was 6 weeks max, this is the first time I'm doing 8 weeks because of enclomiphene.

Not to mention that your labs on 50 var are going to be horrible ( lipids) on 250 test most likely they will be all in range so yes you can run test longer and feel awesome. My lipids are good even on 500 test with 200 mast. I dont think they would look pretty on 50mg of var.

Running a c17 aa oral with a serm is magnitudes more toxic than a mild dose of test so yes while you may mitigate shut down somewhat and make recovery easier, you are destroying your body health wise compared to mild dose of test.

 

[Jinsun]

I mean, there is proper research comparing var to test. And the ratio of anabolism was much in favor of var. I think MPMD did a video once about it. I can look for it, in it he states all the sources so ya'll can look it up for your self. I think it was something in the lines of 250mg var = 600mg test.

The problem with var only is estrogen. You need it to build muscle, but if you get suppressed you have none. But just mg per mg, var beats test by a long shot. And this really shouldn't be a debate tbh.

Now, practical applications is another thing. 6 weeks of 500 test vs 6 weeks of 350 var, I am sure that after pct, and a month later when all is said and done, if you go and do a dexa scan, var is going to be a clear winner. Now, 6 weeks of var with no estrogen base vs 12 weeks of test, ... that's another story entirely.

Var is a strong lean tissue builder. But 6 weeks is just not a lot of time. Also, you need a good source obviously, so you dont get under dosed crap.

 

[CroLifter]

Var is a strong lean tissue builder. But 6 weeks is just not a lot of time. Also, you need a good source obviously, so you dont get underdosed crap.

Or may as well just buy winstrol in the 1st place and pay less at the start. From what i heard a lot of times winstrol is used to replace anavar.


That being said, even though i considered it a few times i still have a problem with it being so mild while at the same time rough on lipids...i feel like one can get equally as good or better gains with properly designed all injectable stack without such harsh effects on lipids and perhaps kidneys.

 

[Jinsun]

Or may as well just buy winstrol in the 1st place and pay less at the start. From what i heard a lot of times winstrol is used to replace anavar.

Yeah that's supposedly true. But there are so many good sources lately, that getting good var or good primo is really not a problem honestly.

 

[Renew1]

Yeah that's supposedly true. But there are so many good sources lately, that getting good var or good primo is really not a problem honestly.

So many guys see a source that says they have Var for sale, and get excited and buy it.
Or they find a lower price on "Var", and buy it.
.... Without checking on the sources.
So, a lot of guys end up with fake Var.

I don't think I've EVER bought fake Var, and I've bought it a LOT.

 

[Jinsun]

So many guys see a source that says they have Var for sale, and get excited and buy it.
Or they find a lower price on "Var", and buy it.
.... Without checking on the sources.
So, a lot of guys end up with fake Var.

I don't think I've EVER bought fake Var, and I've bought it a LOT.

Yeah. Just don't buy from some briti** dragon or DP, or whatever, off of some eroi*s mainstream website : )

 

[Renew1]

Yeah. Just don't buy from some briti** dragon or DP, or whatever, off of some eroi*s mainstream website : )

Yep!
We've always got to be careful where we buy our gear, but especially with Var, because it is so often faked.

 

[Hyde]

Yep!
We've always got to be careful where we buy our gear, but especially with Var, because it is so often faked.

We had some great overpriced Dbol one time

 

[50Magnum]

Stims didn't even help the few hours of lethargy?

to be honest not really; but then I again I am a stim junkie so I have a high tolerance for stim. Now if you barely use preworkouts and run it while doing lgd its possible that it will help with lethargy. For me it didn't do much; I just dosed the lgd after my workout.

 

[Afi140]

Subbed to read later

 

[Hyde]

Subbed to read later

TLDR - Enclomiphene seems to be the only SERM that makes a difference, and it needs to be done with very light cycles/compounds.

 

[Afi140]

TLDR - Enclomiphene seems to be the only SERM that makes a difference, and it needs to be done with very light cycles/compounds.

Thanks bro

 

[50Magnum]

So I would like to make an update on this thread, I just found out the batch of en-clofert I had tested as clomiphene, basically overdosed clomiphene; I believe it came out to 90mg enclomiphene and 40-50mg zuclomiphene. So the anavar cycle I did was basically anavar+clomid, well it seem'd to have work, but I'm so pissed I wasn't notified via email earlier that the batch of enclofert I had was in fact fucking clomid!!!

 

[KvanH]

So I would like to make an update on this thread, I just found out the batch of en-clofert I had tested as clomiphene, basically overdosed clomiphene; I believe it came out to 90mg enclomiphene and 40-50mg zuclomiphene. So the anavar cycle I did was basically anavar+clomid, well it seem'd to have work, but I'm so pissed I wasn't notified via email earlier that the batch of enclofert I had was in fact fucking clomid!!!

I saw another member here asking about a serm he had ordered and IIRC it said "Enclofert" on the box and read Clomifene on the 'pill plate' (or what ever it's called in english). So maybe the En-clofert is just a brand name or something?

 

[50Magnum]

I saw another member here asking about a serm he had ordered and IIRC it said "Enclofert" on the box and read Clomifene on the 'pill plate' (or what ever it's called in english). So maybe the En-clofert is just a brand name or something?

Well it was marketed as enclomiphene from various sources, and then the original source who brought it to the market had a batch tested with janoshik and it tested out basically as overdosed clomid.

I remember vividly asking the source if this was truely indeed enclomiphene because the packet itself said equals up to 50mg of enclomiphene which seem'd suspect. He said it was pharmaceutical grade enclomiphene and then last October it got tested out as clomid. I just checked up on the blister packet today and the batch number I received was the one that tested out as clomid and there supposedly was a recall 3 months ago.

There is two en-cloferts I believe, one is clomid and the other one is "marketed as enclomiphene" but more than likely all the batches marketed as enclomiphene is probably clomid. They are produced by Maneesh Pharmaceuticals, I believe they stopped producing en-clofert since people caught on that in reality it is basically overpriced clomid.

 

[KvanH]

Well it was marketed as enclomiphene from various sources, and then the original source who brought it to the market had a batch tested with janoshik and it tested out basically as overdosed clomid.

I remember vividly asking the source if this was truely indeed enclomiphene because the packet itself said equals up to 50mg of enclomiphene which seem'd suspect. He said it was pharmaceutical grade enclomiphene and then last October it got tested out as clomid. I just checked up on the blister packet today and the batch number I received was the one that tested out as clomid and there supposedly was a recall 3 months ago.

There is two en-cloferts I believe, one is clomid and the other one is "marketed as enclomiphene" but more than likely all the batches marketed as enclomiphene is probably clomid. They are produced by Maneesh Pharmaceuticals, I believe they stopped producing en-clofert since people caught on that in reality it is basically overpriced clomid.

Ah, okey. Well, that's not cool = |

 

[Renew1]

Well it was marketed as enclomiphene from various sources, and then the original source who brought it to the market had a batch tested with janoshik and it tested out basically as overdosed clomid.

I remember vividly asking the source if this was truely indeed enclomiphene because the packet itself said equals up to 50mg of enclomiphene which seem'd suspect. He said it was pharmaceutical grade enclomiphene and then last October it got tested out as clomid. I just checked up on the blister packet today and the batch number I received was the one that tested out as clomid and there supposedly was a recall 3 months ago.

There is two en-cloferts I believe, one is clomid and the other one is "marketed as enclomiphene" but more than likely all the batches marketed as enclomiphene is probably clomid. They are produced by Maneesh Pharmaceuticals, I believe they stopped producing en-clofert since people caught on that in reality it is basically overpriced clomid.

When guys have asked me about Enclomiphene, this is basically what I've told them.
My main concern was that people would just sell them Clomid, and call it Enclomiphene.

 

[Jinsun]

When guys have asked me about Enclomiphene, this is basically what I've told them.
My main concern was that people would just sell them Clomid, and call it Enclomiphene.

I'd say it should be easy distinguishing between the two, if one were to have used true enclom at least once that is ... Seeing as how zuclom is responsible for most of the heavy emotional sides of clom - enclom should be void of those, or, at least, should have substantially less. My first pct with enclom will be after I finish the cycle that I'm on atm, I'm quite interested in how that's going to go. But, I'm also curious to use it on cycle, as my dosages are currently real low.

Judging serms from an experience such as PCT is kinda tricky, as there are a lot of other factors at play, so you have no baseline from which you can judge what's what.

 

[Renew1]

I'd say it should be easy distinguishing between the two, if one were to have used true enclom at least once that is ... Seeing as how zuclom is responsible for most of the heavy emotional sides of clom - enclom should be void of those, or, at least, should have substantially less. My first pct with enclom will be after I finish the cycle that I'm on atm, I'm quite interested in how that's going to go. But, I'm also curious to use it on cycle, as my dosages are currently real low. Judging serm from an experience such as PCT is kinda tricky, as there are a lot of other factors at play, so you have no baseline from which you can judge what's what.

By Far, most have never used it.

 

[joe123!]

BAM!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4708215/


Main problem

Testosterone replacement therapy inhibits spermatogenesis, representing a problem for hypogonadal men of reproductive age.


Methods

A literature review of PubMed from 1990-2013. Semen analysis and pregnancy outcomes, time to recovery of spermatogenesis, serum and intratesticular testosterone levels were examined.


Results

Exogenous testosterone suppresses intratesticular testosterone production, which is an absolute prerequisite for normal spermatogenesis. Therapies that protect the testis involve human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) therapy or selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs), but may also include low dose hCG with exogenous testosterone. SERMs, such as clomiphene citrate, are effective for maintaining testosterone production and represent a well-tolerated, oral therapy. Routine use of aromatase inhibitors is not recommended based on a lack of long-term data.


Conclusions

Exogenous testosterone supplementation decreases sperm production. Studies of hormonal contraception indicate that most men have a return of normal sperm production within 1 year after discontinuation. Clomiphene citrate is a safe and effective therapy for men who desire to maintain future potential fertility. Although less frequently used in the general population, hCG therapy with or without testosterone supplementation represents an alternative treatment.

I just had my test pulled and the TRT doc recommended running clomid for 3 week on/1week off and get new bloods on the 6th week, but probably do that cycle for 3-months. I often wonder why a lot of guys run to trt first when a SERM can bring your natural production back. I understand some need it, but its prescribed far to fast.

Also, I noticed you mentioned CJC. I plan to pick up some CJC 1295 + Ipamorelin to run along side the clomid. Ill probably pack on more muscle from that combo then a strong PH run lol.

 

[TMan86]

Just finished 25mg Ostarine 8 week cycle, pre test bloods where 550 which is around my normal range.
Had bloods taken few days after cycle ended, 114 test. Doing 25 mg clomid for a few weeks than my Dr is sending me for more blood work.

My dr is aware of my AAS use and gives me bloods, SERMS whatever I am needed. May try clomid towards tail end of next cycle see if that helps suppression.

 

[joe123!]

Just finished 25mg Ostarine 8 week cycle, pre test bloods where 550 which is around my normal range.
Had bloods taken few days after cycle ended, 114 test. Doing 25 mg clomid for a few weeks than my Dr is sending me for more blood work.

My dr is aware of my AAS use and gives me bloods, SERMS whatever I am needed. May try clomid towards tail end of next cycle see if that helps suppression.

Dude, 114. Is horrible. Your testosterone is basically dropping to the level of 100-year-old man. For real, you'll be on TRT for life if you keep cycling like that.

 

[BBiceps]

Dude, 114. Is horrible. Your testosterone is basically dropping to the level of 100-year-old man. For real, you'll be on TRT for life if you keep cycling like that.

Not necessarily, he’s 114 after cycle which is expected and he haven’t started Clomid yet, Clomid should bring him back up fairly quick to pre levels or higher.