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Clomid during cycle

Kratom267 said:
saw him telling a kid not to run SERMs for his PCT after a SARM cycle...the kid said "I don't feel suppressed"...
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Imo just because you don’t feel suppressed doesn’t mean your T isn’t tanked... hell its his body. The only reason I haven’t cycled is cause the idea of suppression scares the **** out of me. But if I ever were too you best believe I’d be on a serm for PCT at the minimum....
 
rowz4broz said:
Imo just because you don’t feel suppressed doesn’t mean your T isn’t tanked... hell its his body. The only reason I haven’t cycled is cause the idea of suppression scares the **** out of me. But if I ever were too you best believe I’d be on a serm for PCT at the minimum....
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Exactly. Without bloodwork theres no way to know. Best to be on the safe side and do a full PCT. Ive heard that SARMS will suppress the hell outta you, just like anything anabolic. While he did have a point that Serms have their own set of side effects, id much rather deal with crying watching a hallmark movie with your wife than not having your balls working properly...so many scary tales about kids not running a good PCT and ending up on TRT a couple years later. Suppression is a bitch no matter what you run.
 
Kratom267 said:
saw him telling a kid not to run SERMs for his PCT after a SARM cycle...the kid said "I don't feel suppressed"...
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Yea after that thread I started researching, I appreciate everyone's info and I'm not against admitting being wrong and learning and being better.
 
mad_canada said:
Yea after that thread I started researching, I appreciate everyone's info and I'm not against admitting being wrong and learning and being better.
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Its all good man. Ive been a research fiend lately...Ive done a few cycles years ago, just getting back in to it lately. Looking forward to a DMZ cycle next week! What are you running atm or coming up?
 
Kratom267 said:
Its all good man. Ive been a research fiend lately...Ive done a few cycles years ago, just getting back in to it lately. Looking forward to a DMZ cycle next week! What are you running atm or coming up?
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Rad 140 + MK 677, I've gone from from 172-182 in 8 weeks but only been on rad for the last 16 days. Started gaining a lot of weight the past 3 days though and was on mk almost a full month before the rad.

Logging this experience here
Invalid Link Removed

Was trying here but got no traction in the log. All good.
 
mad_canada said:
Rad 140 + MK 677, I've gone from from 172-182 in 8 weeks but only been on rad for the last 16 days. Started gaining a lot of weight the past 3 days though and was on mk almost a full month before the rad.

Logging this experience here
Invalid Link Removed

Was trying here but got no traction in the log. All good.
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Ill check it out for sure man!
Ive been looking in to running a sarm cycle, but seems like lots of dudes say they don't respond to them much. I was mainly interested in the promised "low sides" for sarms, but that doesn't seem to be the case in lots of logs ive read. Some have said they were suppressed as **** and had strange sides like vision troubles, bad lethargy, etc. Everyone's different though. 10lbs in 8 weeks is awesome, but at the same time...I think that could be done naturally if you just eat a lot and train your ass off, right?
Might have to look in to all the sarm options out there though and consider running one in the future...
 
Kratom267 said:
Ill check it out for sure man!
Ive been looking in to running a sarm cycle, but seems like lots of dudes say they don't respond to them much. I was mainly interested in the promised "low sides" for sarms, but that doesn't seem to be the case in lots of logs ive read. Some have said they were suppressed as **** and had strange sides like vision troubles, bad lethargy, etc. Everyone's different though. 10lbs in 8 weeks is awesome, but at the same time...I think that could be done naturally if you just eat a lot and train your ass off, right?
Might have to look in to all the sarm options out there though and consider running one in the future...
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Seeing as sarms are looking for a good. Be scheduled as AAS soon, I will switch to PH's going forward it looks like.
 
mad_canada said:
Seeing as sarms are looking for a good. Be scheduled as AAS soon, I will switch to PH's going forward it looks like.
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Check out DMZ! Not sure how long it will be available though, seems like only a couple sites carry it, feel free to PM me and i can tell you where i got mine. Depending on your goals, Msten, DMZ, and Hdrol can still be found. Trest as well...but im too scared to run that stuff cause of estrogen issues...though lots of dudes swear by it!

I cant access the link your provided for you log btw...
 
Kratom267 said:
Check out DMZ! Not sure how long it will be available though, seems like only a couple sites carry it, feel free to PM me and i can tell you where i got mine. Depending on your goals, Msten, DMZ, and Hdrol can still be found. Trest as well...but im too scared to run that stuff cause of estrogen issues...though lots of dudes swear by it!
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Doing the recomp now, so it'll be several months until I use any ph but will message you, and I'll start writing about prohormones on my blog too.
 
mad_canada said:
Michael Dell said once that you should never be the smartest person in the room.

If you are, you should find a new room.
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haha true true! Though, running a good PCT is a must for any cycle, regardless of how you "feel"!
Just curious, cuz i cant seem to be able to open your log, what was your plan for PCT after your sarm cycle? And now, what serm are you thinking about running?
 
Kratom267 said:
haha true true! Though, running a good PCT is a must for any cycle, regardless of how you "feel"!
Just curious, cuz i cant seem to be able to open your log, what was your plan for PCT after your sarm cycle? And now, what serm are you thinking about running?
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I'll start 30mg of torem today. It'll suck since I need to measure it every day in powder form. I'll do that and taper off the last two weeks through the cycle when it's over with.

I'm real curious to try a 1ad/4ad stack for the fat loss and muscle gain showed in the taxas A&M study but since I started rad 140 I'll stick with that instead of risking things.
 
mad_canada said:
I'll start 30mg of torem today. It'll suck since I need to measure it every day in powder form. I'll do that and taper off the last two weeks through the cycle when it's over with.

I'm real curious to try a 1ad/4ad stack for the fat loss and muscle gain showed in the taxas A&M study but since I started rad 140 I'll stick with that instead of risking things.
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Buy some Torem from MAresearch!!! Its getting good reviews...just got 2 bottles im saving for my PCT. Easy to dose, comes with a good 1ml dropper too.
 
mad_canada said:
I'll start 30mg of torem today. It'll suck since I need to measure it every day in powder form. I'll do that and taper off the last two weeks through the cycle when it's over with.

I'm real curious to try a 1ad/4ad stack for the fat loss and muscle gain showed in the taxas A&M study but since I started rad 140 I'll stick with that instead of risking things.
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you have a link to that study from A&M? I went there for my degree!
 
Kratom267 said:
you have a link to that study from A&M? I went there for my degree!
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Invalid Link Removed

Prohormone increased lean body mass by 6.3 ± 1.2%, decreased fat body mass by 24.6 ± 7.1%, and increased their back squat one repetition maximum and competition total by 14.3 ± 1.5 and 12.8 ± 1.1%, respectively.

These improvements exceeded (P < 0.05) Placebo, which increased lean body mass by 0.5 ± 0.8%, reduced fat body mass by 9.5 ± 3.6%, and increased back squat one repetition maximum and competition total by 5.7 ± 1.7 and 5.9 ± 1.7%, respectively.*
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My bolded emphasis added.
 
Hyde said:
Update us on how the MAResearch Torem goes for you. Prices are legit.
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There are MANY great reviews on Torem, including Alex Kikel, who hosts Beast Fitness Radio.
 
Kratom267 said:
So damn good to hear the good reports on MA's Torem! Anyone able to make any sense of the lab reports that comes with their products? Was looking at mine for the Torem...have no f'n clue! Im used to lab reports for CBD products, where it simply says "97% CBD, .2%THC" etc
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I send my customers reports exactly how I receive them from the lab. The lab tells me the numbers, but all I care about is if a chemical is at least 99%. When I ask the lab to send me a physical copy of the test (they normally don't send a physical copies unless they aren't asked; I only ask for you guys), they send me the graph, as the graph is the ONLY form of proof that the product was tested and has the proper purity percentage. If all I sent was a piece of paper providing a number, what would that prove?

Numbers mean nothing. I could easily add a line onto the lab report that read "Purity Percentage" and put a number in there, but what would that mean? Nothing, as anyone with even a basic understanding of Microsoft word could easily alter a lab report to say whatever number they want.

The proof IS the graph, which is VERY hard to fake. Not only do most people lack the necessary software to make a graph like that, but they would also have to know how to read HPLC/Mass Spec reports so that they could perfectly line up the graph with the number they put on the paper. I've spoken to numerous company owners, and I can confidently say that not one (that I have spoken to) has the ability to do that.

The bottom line is that almost no one in this community knows how to read HPLC and/or MASS Spec graph, so it really doesn't matter what number is on the page. If someone really wanted to, I am sure they could copy and paste a graph from someone else's report (like mine), throw a purity percentage on there, and most people will believe it, but that's a huge risk because if anyone who can read these graphs ever looks at one of those, he would immediately know the graph and purity percentage number didn't line-up...and that is the 2nd reason I don't put a number on my graphs...because it enables people to steal them, put their own logo on them, and pawn them off as their own.

By keeping the number off of there, someone would need to know how to read HPLC/Mass Spec graphs in order to determine the exact purity percentage, so that they could line up the number with the graph. Otherwise, they put themselves at huge risk of being caught red-handed as frauds.

Lastly, I don't need lab reports to sell my products. How many other peptide companies provide them? NONE...and none ever have (at least not consistently like me), yet plenty of companies have made good money...even when selling Chinese chems without any testing at all. I could've done the same and still made good money (considerably more money, actually, as the profit margins would have been 3X higher), but I chose to do things a more reliable way. I decided to spend significantly more money buying US made chems and do lab testing, which costs me a LOT more money than buying Chinese chems and skipping testing. Because I do spend more money and am proud of what I sell I wanted to show my customers proof of that, but I never expected the majority of people to be able to read these reports...because if you can't read the graph, the numbers mean nothing. Now, as I mentioned before, there are people in our community who are capable of reading them, so I would have to be absolutely STUPID to put 1,000's of fake reports into people's hands, especially with all the competition around trying to topple their competitors. Why would I set myself up for a disaster like that when I never needed them to be successful in the fist place? I wouldn't. I provide these reports for you guys...as an extra layer of confidence in the products. That's all.
 
Mike Arnold said:
I send my customers reports exactly how I receive them from the lab. The lab tells me the numbers, but all I care about is if a chemical is at least 99%. When I ask the lab to send me a physical copy of the test (they normally don't send a physical copies unless they aren't asked; I only ask for you guys), they send me the graph, as the graph is the ONLY form of proof that the product was tested and has the proper purity percentage. If all I sent was a piece of paper providing a number, what would that prove?

Numbers mean nothing. I could easily add a line onto the lab report that read "Purity Percentage" and put a number in there, but what would that mean? Nothing, as anyone with even a basic understanding of Microsoft word could easily alter a lab report to say whatever number they want.

The proof IS the graph, which is VERY hard to fake. Not only do most people lack the necessary software to make a graph like that, but they would also have to know how to read HPLC/Mass Spec reports so that they could perfectly line up the graph with the number they put on the paper. I've spoken to numerous company owners, and I can confidently say that not one (that I have spoken to) has the ability to do that.

The bottom line is that almost no one in this community knows how to read HPLC and/or MASS Spec graph, so it really doesn't matter what number is on the page. If someone really wanted to, I am sure they could copy and paste a graph from someone else's report (like mine), throw a purity percentage on there, and most people will believe it, but that's a huge risk because if anyone who can read these graphs ever looks at one of those, he would immediately know the graph and purity percentage number didn't line-up...and that is the 2nd reason I don't put a number on my graphs...because it enables people to steal them, put their own logo on them, and pawn them off as their own.

By keeping the number off of there, someone would need to know how to read HPLC/Mass Spec graphs in order to determine the exact purity percentage, so that they could line up the number with the graph. Otherwise, they put themselves at huge risk of being caught red-handed as frauds.

Lastly, I don't need lab reports to sell my products. How many other peptide companies provide them? NONE...and none ever have (at least not consistently like me), yet plenty of companies have made good money...even when selling Chinese chems without any testing at all. I could've done the same and still made good money (considerably more money, actually, as the profit margins would have been 3X higher), but I chose to do things a more reliable way. I decided to spend significantly more money buying US made chems and do lab testing, which costs me a LOT more money than buying Chinese chems and skipping testing. Because I do spend more money and am proud of what I sell I wanted to show my customers proof of that, but I never expected the majority of people to be able to read these reports...because if you can't read the graph, the numbers mean nothing. Now, as I mentioned before, there are people in our community who are capable of reading them, so I would have to be absolutely STUPID to put 1,000's of fake reports into people's hands, especially with all the competition around trying to topple their competitors. Why would I set myself up for a disaster like that when I never needed them to be successful in the fist place? I wouldn't. I provide these reports for you guys...as an extra layer of confidence in the products. That's all.
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A shame that you don't ship or sell in EU... :(
 
CatSnake said:
yup.

but the issue is this: even if the SERM binds to most of the ER's, there is still a ton of circulating E2 floating around that needs to be dealt with (hence part of the reason SERMs actually raise E2).

so yes, you prolly need an AI....
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Correct.

Not only do SERMs not bind to all estrogen receptor throughout the body, but each SERM differs in its selectivity/binding affinity for various receptors. This is why Nolvadex, despite being a SERM just like Clomid, is generally much more effective than Clomid in combating gyno.

So, even if a SERM is used at a very high dosage, all that estrogen will still be floating around the bloodstream and will attach to those receptors that the SERM does not target. Furthermore those "free" receptors will be hammered with even larger amounts of estrogen than they would have otherwise, due to the extra estrogen being knocked off the receptors that the SERM does target.

This is why a bodybuilder could use 100 mg of Clomid, yet after using 2 grams of test for 6 weeks he is holding more water than the Atlantic. That water retention is mediated directly by estrogen receptor binding--receptors that the SERM does not target.

Aromatase Inhibitors are also selective in that they do not stop all estrogen conversion, no matter how much someone takes. Although AI's are generally universally effective in reducing total estrogen levels, each AI targets aromatase in different tissues to different degrees. For example, Exemestane, despite being more selective than other AI's (in general), still binds to brain aromatase to a higher degree than something like Anastrozole. Aromatase in this area of the brain plays a critical role in sexual functioning/libido, which is why exemestane is known to cause sexual dysfunction/libido issues far more often than Anastrozole, which, for the most part, doesn't interfere with aromatase in this area of the body. It's also why the different AI's affect cholesterol levels to different degrees, with letrozole being the most damaging and exemestane being the least damaging.

This variance in aromatase selectivity/affinity is the reason why each AI (and SERM) has different effects throughout the body...and why each drug is indicated for the treatment of different medical conditions. Some might be more effective for treating breast cancer, while others are more effective for treating other types of cancer.

Estrogen also has non-genomic effects, which take place in full regardless of whatever SERM is used. A non-genomic effect is usually defined as any effect that does not directly and initially influence gene expression. Non-genomic effects frequently involve the generation of intracellular second messengers and various signal-transduction cascades, such as ion fluxes, protein kinase pathways, and cyclic AMP modulation. Only AI's can reduce estrogen's non-genomic effects, but they do so indirectly by lowering total estrogen concentrations.
 
Mike Arnold said:
I send my customers reports exactly how I receive them from the lab. The lab tells me the numbers, but all I care about is if a chemical is at least 99%. When I ask the lab to send me a physical copy of the test (they normally don't send a physical copies unless they aren't asked; I only ask for you guys), they send me the graph, as the graph is the ONLY form of proof that the product was tested and has the proper purity percentage. If all I sent was a piece of paper providing a number, what would that prove?

Numbers mean nothing. I could easily add a line onto the lab report that read "Purity Percentage" and put a number in there, but what would that mean? Nothing, as anyone with even a basic understanding of Microsoft word could easily alter a lab report to say whatever number they want.

The proof IS the graph, which is VERY hard to fake. Not only do most people lack the necessary software to make a graph like that, but they would also have to know how to read HPLC/Mass Spec reports so that they could perfectly line up the graph with the number they put on the paper. I've spoken to numerous company owners, and I can confidently say that not one (that I have spoken to) has the ability to do that.

The bottom line is that almost no one in this community knows how to read HPLC and/or MASS Spec graph, so it really doesn't matter what number is on the page. If someone really wanted to, I am sure they could copy and paste a graph from someone else's report (like mine), throw a purity percentage on there, and most people will believe it, but that's a huge risk because if anyone who can read these graphs ever looks at one of those, he would immediately know the graph and purity percentage number didn't line-up...and that is the 2nd reason I don't put a number on my graphs...because it enables people to steal them, put their own logo on them, and pawn them off as their own.

By keeping the number off of there, someone would need to know how to read HPLC/Mass Spec graphs in order to determine the exact purity percentage, so that they could line up the number with the graph. Otherwise, they put themselves at huge risk of being caught red-handed as frauds.

Lastly, I don't need lab reports to sell my products. How many other peptide companies provide them? NONE...and none ever have (at least not consistently like me), yet plenty of companies have made good money...even when selling Chinese chems without any testing at all. I could've done the same and still made good money (considerably more money, actually, as the profit margins would have been 3X higher), but I chose to do things a more reliable way. I decided to spend significantly more money buying US made chems and do lab testing, which costs me a LOT more money than buying Chinese chems and skipping testing. Because I do spend more money and am proud of what I sell I wanted to show my customers proof of that, but I never expected the majority of people to be able to read these reports...because if you can't read the graph, the numbers mean nothing. Now, as I mentioned before, there are people in our community who are capable of reading them, so I would have to be absolutely STUPID to put 1,000's of fake reports into people's hands, especially with all the competition around trying to topple their competitors. Why would I set myself up for a disaster like that when I never needed them to be successful in the fist place? I wouldn't. I provide these reports for you guys...as an extra layer of confidence in the products. That's all.
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Your products are excellent , and I absolutely appreciate the lab reports. It's very professional and the way it should be done. It assures me that I'm using quality products for my research.
 
gphagan1 said:
Your products are excellent , and I absolutely appreciate the lab reports. It's very professional and the way it should be done. It assures me that I'm using quality products for my research.
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Thank you. :)
 
Mike, what are your thoughts on using a serm on cycle to prevent shutdown? Possible side vs benefits.
 
I will say looking through my notes I ran clomid on cycle couple years ago 20mg/ day and quit after 2weeks due to libido side effects. Might work but can't deal with that for 12weeks+, 4 weeks is bad enough. But that is just me. Would guess maybe torem ?
 
Spurfy runs torem all the time and swears by it
 
sorry really dumb question but maybe someone can help me with the dosage and how much torem i need to buy from MA but im about to start a 5 week cycle of Megatren.
 
If you run @ 30mg/ day one bottle would be enough for 8 weeks. In my opinion that would be sufficient; that's what I would run. But most will probably tell you to run it for 4 weeks post cycle.... But if you can greatly limit suppression while on cycle then you wouldn't need 4 weeks to recover, in my opinion. Up to you.
 
RickyBlobby said:
If you run @ 30mg/ day one bottle would be enough for 8 weeks. In my opinion that would be sufficient; that's what I would run. But most will probably tell you to run it for 4 weeks post cycle.... But if you can greatly limit suppression while on cycle then you wouldn't need 4 weeks to recover, in my opinion. Up to you.
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thank you very much! first time running torem and first time running any serm on cycle! really excited to see how it goes.
 
John Smeton said:
These are the first lab results ive seen showing a serm helping with testosterone recovery. Its great to see this.
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John, if you look around you'll see many more.

There's reports of Clomid and torem both giving people incredibly High test levels.

I've also read where guys experiment with using this as opposed to testosterone replacement therapy, but there are some side effects that people can't deal with sometimes

Apparently torem seems to be the choice because of its low side effects

You should really log into Skype, I sent you a message there last week
 
edsd said:
thank you very much! first time running torem and first time running any serm on cycle! really excited to see how it goes.
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Keep us posted. If you notice testicular atrophy at 30mg/day you can titrate your torem dosage accordingly. Just make sure you have enough for post cycle.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Keep us posted. If you notice testicular atrophy at 30mg/day you can titrate your torem dosage accordingly. Just make sure you have enough for post cycle.
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Good thinking. to play it safe i think i am going to get two bottles. Just in case i have nolva i can run on ptc if needed or if i run out of torem.
 
BBiceps said:
Silly question but do just squirt the liquid Torem from MA in your mouth or how do you take it?
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You would put it in your test subject anally for best administration ;)


LOL jk your test subject will take it orally my last test subject told me it was easiest for him to have water in mouth tilt head back and squirt and swallow (kinky)
 
RickyBlobby said:
There are at least five people that have been on this board recently that can verify SERMS

A) Maintain testosterone production on cycle as per bloodwork
B) Normalize LH and FSH on cycle as per bloodwork
C) Maintain testicular size as per self evaluation
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Nice.

RickyBlobby said:
No need to use both. SERMS are better IMO because they actually stimulate the pituitary. HCG does not and will cause it to go to "sleep" during cycle meaning when you come off it will take a while to "wake up"
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do serms helps the nuts from shrinking?

So save the hcg until off cycle or on trt youre saying

mad_canada said:
John, if you look around you'll see many more.

There's reports of Clomid and torem both giving people incredibly High test levels.

I've also read where guys experiment with using this as opposed to testosterone replacement therapy, but there are some side effects that people can't deal with sometimes

Apparently torem seems to be the choice because of its low side effects

You should really log into Skype, I sent you a message there last week
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Im aware that serms raise testosterone. Pointing out this is great news and the first ive seen bloodwork of using a serm on cycle and test levels bouncing back this fast after cycle was discontinued (if it was real primo, most or all primo is test and its very very difficult to get real primo, I regret using it bc im quite sure stuff I used was just test ) im not here to argue, just share my knowledge, if the primo was test it could have still been in your system. OP I hope your primo was real. no way of really knowing.
 
John Smeton said:
do serms helps the nuts from shrinking?
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In my experience, yes. There are a couple other guys that said theirs stayed normal sized too.
 
Here's a question, I have been on TRT for a while and my nuts are like raisinettes... how high a dose do you think might spring the boys back into life a little. Hell just enough that they get a little weight on them. LOL I would actually be quite open to the idea of Torem instead of TRT if I could use it long term for that. Obviously would have to look into it a bit more.
 
Have to play with dosages. Ive been taking clomid at like 20mg/ day for 3 weeks, and after 2 years of atrophy they are just starting to gain size, been firmer for a week or so
 
Typical PCT protocol would probably net the fastest results though. Like clomid 50/50/25/25/12.5 or maybe 50/50/50/25/12.5
 
RickyBlobby said:
Have to play with dosages. Ive been taking clomid at like 20mg/ day for 3 weeks, and after 2 years of atrophy they are just starting to gain size, been firmer for a week or so
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Tbh, I am battling a bad caffeine addiction/dependance and although I do not think under three weeks is enough to feel suppression, the energy levels aren't great.

I jumped on the torem after that big megathread on using it during post versus on cycle, energy levels fluctuate throughout the day so I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with hormones at this point mostly caffeine
 
Same here. I consume a lot of caffeine, especially at work.
 
RickyBlobby said:
Same here. I consume a lot of caffeine, especially at work.
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Drinks some coffee and nods in agreement... now I am off to make another cup!
 
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