OrganicShadow
Well-known member
Would you mind elaborating on this?
Check out my new night time protein
- Thread starter djbombsquad
- Start date
Would you mind elaborating on this?
AndrewNico
Active member
good to finally see some fellow bb.com'ers coming round these parts and dropping down knowledge. I was getting lonely.
Powercage
Board Sponsor
lol, bringing light to the broscience
AndrewNico
Active member
just dont try arguing glutamine or arginine. I don't think they're ready for that yet . . . at least from the reactions I got. Felt like I was on crazy pills
Powercage
Board Sponsor
purebred
Guest
Sure. I will be posting more information regarding unfermented/fermented soy. As for the GMO topic, the effects on human health from genetically modified organisms are generally unknown as it is a field of research that iss premature--practically unborn to say the least--and what we do know does not indicate it is safe for human consumption. Think about it? You're modifying the very thing that allows our body to recognize the given substance(s). This can apply to numerous other compounds such as aspartame and splenda. The body doesn't know what to do with these compounds because they are synthetic and unnatural substances. This conversation can (and most likely will) end up in a tangent so for now, I'll do my best to keep it on track.
Soy and Your Health: An Update on the Benefits
By: Mark Messina, PhD
Soyfoods have been a part of Asian diets for centuries. Today, there is a growing interest in these foods among westerners because of their proposed health benefits and also because their versatility makes them valuable for replacing meat and dairy foods in the diet. Soybeans provide excellent nutrition and contain a number of biologically active components that collectively may be responsible for a variety of health benefits. However, most of the interest in soy is due to their isoflavone content. Isoflavones have been rigorously studied for their protective effects against several chronic diseases including osteoporosis, coronary heart disease and certain forms of cancer.
Soy Isoflavones
Isoflavones are essentially unique to soyfoods; no other commonly-consumed foods contain enough to impact health [1]. Although they are among a group of naturally-occurring compounds known as phytoestrogens (plant estrogens), isoflavones are much different from the hormone estrogen. In fact, they are most accurately classified as SERMs (selective estrogen receptor modulators) [2]. Other examples of SERMs are the breast cancer drug tamoxifen and the breast cancer and osteoporosis drug, raloxifene. The effects of SERMs vary depending upon a variety of circumstances. SERMs like isoflavones may have estrogen-like effects, but depending on a number of factors, they may also have effects opposite to those of estrogen or no effects at all in tissues that are affected by estrogen. Therefore, looking at the health effects of estrogen doesn’t provide much information about how isoflavones act. The only way to learn about the effects of isoflavones is to look directly at their biological activity in studies.
Soybean Nutrition
Soybeans are unique among legumes, a group of foods that includes beans, peas, and lentils, because they are much higher in protein and fat than other beans, and lower in carbohydrate [3]. The fat in soybeans is primarily a combination of heart-healthy essential polyunsaturated omega- 6 and omega-3 fatty acids [4]. This makes soybeans one of the few plant foods to provide both of the essential fatty acids. The carbohydrate in soy is comprised primarily of simple sugars that have been shown in some studies to act as prebiotics, thereby stimulating the growth of healthy bacteria in the colon. Soyfoods are also good sources of B vitamins and minerals such as potassium, iron and sometimes calcium. Soybeans are perhaps best known for their high protein content. Although soybeans contain trypsin inhibitors, compounds which can interfere with the digestion of protein, the normal processing used to produce soyfoods inactivates these compounds. As a result, protein in soy is very well digested; digestion typically exceeds 90 percent. For this reason, and because of its excellent amino acid profile, soy protein is comparable in quality to the protein in animal products [5].
Soyfoods and Heart Disease
Research suggests that incorporating soyfoods into the diet may decrease LDL-cholesterol (the bad cholesterol) by as much as 8 percent [6]. When soyfoods replace conventional sources of protein in western diets, saturated fat intake is reduced and polyunsaturated fat intake is increased. As a result, blood cholesterol levels will be lowered. That soyfoods contain a combination of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids is especially important for reducing risk of heart disease [7]. In addition to the healthy fat found in soy, soy protein has been shown to directly reduce levels of blood cholesterol. The Food and Drug Administration awarded a health claim for soyfoods and coronary heart disease on this basis in 1999. The effects of soy protein are comparable to cholesterol-lowering benefits of soluble fiber, the kind found in oat bran. In addition to lowering LDL-cholesterol, soyfoods give a modest boost to HDL-cholesterol, which is protective against heart disease, and reduces levels of triglycerides (another fatty compound in the blood that can raise heart disease risk). Finally, soyfoods may reduce heart disease risk in ways that are independent of their effects on cholesterol. For example, soyfoods may lower blood pressure [8] and research indicates that isoflavones directly improve the health of the arteries [9]. Therefore, even people with normal cholesterol levels can benefit by consuming soyfoods.
Soyfoods and Breast Cancer Risk
In Asian countries, where soyfoods are a usual part of the diet, breast cancer rates are much lower than in western countries. This observation helped fuel speculation that soyfoods reduce breast cancer risk. However, after years of research, it is not clear that women who begin to consume soyfoods in adulthood will lower their risk of cancer. Rather, the protective effects appear to be related to early soy consumption. That is, women who consumed these foods in childhood and/or the teen years may have a lower risk for breast cancer later in life. Protective effects of soy are thought to be due to actions of soy isoflavones on the developing breast in ways which make breast cells more resistant to being transformed into cancer cells later in life [10, 11]. Studies conducted in China and the United States show that the consumption of modest amounts of soy—1 to 1.5servings per day—is associated with a 25 to 50% reduction in risk. Although the hypothesis that early soy intake is protective against breast cancer remains speculative, because the amount of soy needed for benefit is modest and soyfoods provide good nutrition, there is no reason to wait for the results of future research before encouraging young girls to consume soy.
Prostate Cancer
In studies of Asian populations, consumption of unfermented soyfoods such as tofu and soymilk, is associated with a reduced risk for prostate cancer. These studies show that Asian men who consume about two servings of soyfoods daily are about 30 to 50% less likely to have prostate cancer than Asian men who consume little soy [12]. Some evidence also shows that, in men with prostate cancer, eating soyfoods may slow the rise of blood levels of prostate specific antigen (PSA), a protein associated with tumor growth [13]. Also, an important study in prostate cancer patients indicated that consuming soy isoflavones could reduce levels of an enzyme involved in cancer metastasis [14]. Finally, consumption of soyfoods may reduce some of the side effects associated with radiation therapy for prostate cancer treatment [15].
Osteoporosis
Because isoflavones exert estrogen-like effects under certain circumstances, scientists have been studying whether soyfoods reduce risk of osteoporosis. Two important studies show that among Asian postmenopausal women, those who are in the upper quarter of soy intake are about one-third less likely to suffer a fracture [16, 17]. However, studies in which postmenopausal women have been administered soyfoods, soy protein or isoflavone supplements have produced mixed results. Some studies show an improvement in bone mineral density and some don’t. Thus, more research in this area is needed before conclusions can be made. However, because some soyfoods are good sources of calcium, and all soy products provide high-quality protein, which is important for strong bones, soyfoods can play a beneficial role in diets aimed in promoting bone health regardless of the effects of isoflavones.
Skin Health
A number of cosmetics and lotions that contain soy extracts have been shown in clinical studies o improve the health and appearance of skin. Recently, there has been interest in the effects of dietary intake of isoflavones on the skin as well. Isoflavones bind to estrogen receptors in the skin and the hormone estrogen is associated with improved skin appearance. Several small studies suggest that isoflavone intake improves skin elasticity and increases collagen synthesis [18-22]. Although it is too early for definitive conclusions about the benefits of soy for skin, research in this area is promising.
Hot Flashes
The drop in estrogen levels that occurs in menopause is linked with the onset of hot flashes. The estrogen-like properties of isoflavones may be one reason why western women report having hot flashes to a much greater extent than women in Japan. More than 50 clinical trials have evaluated the effects of isoflavone-containing products on the alleviation of menopausal symptoms. The most recent analysis of this research, which includes 19 studies, shows very clearly that isoflavones are effective [23]. On average, isoflavones produce a 50% decrease in the frequency and severity of hot flashes. The amount of isoflavones found in two servings of traditional soyfoods appears to be sufficient to produce this benefit.
Intake Recommendations
The 2010 U.S. Dietary Guidelines call for increasing the intake of plant protein. Soyfoods are an excellent way to do just that. The quality of soy protein is comparable to animal protein but soyfoods contain only minimal amounts of saturated fat. There is also intriguing evidence indicating that, independent of the nutrients they offer, soyfoods provide a number of health benefits. Based on Asian intake as well as the amounts of soy shown to be beneficial in clinical studies, a good goal is to consume about 15 to 25 grams of soy protein per day. These amounts are provided by about 2 to 4 servings of soyfoods.
About the Author:
Dr. Mark Messina is an adjunct associate professor at Loma Linda University and the Executive Director of the Soy Nutrition Institute. He has been studying the health effects of soy for more than 20 years and has published more than 60 scientific papers and given more than 500 presentations on soyfoods to health professionals.
References
1. Franke AA, Custer LJ, Wang W, Shi CY. HPLC analysis of isoflavonoids and other phenolic agents from foods and from human fluids. Proc. Soc. Exp. Biol. Med. 1998, 217, 263-73.
2. Oseni T, Patel R, Pyle J, Jordan VC. Selective estrogen receptor modulators and phytoestrogens. Planta Med. 2008, 74, 1656-65.
3. Messina MJ. Legumes and soybeans: overview of their nutritional profiles and health effects. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 1999, 70, 439S-450S.
4. Wu Z, Rodgers RP, Marshall AG. Characterization of vegetable oils: detailed
compositional fingerprints derived from electrospray ionization fourier transform ion cyclotron resonance mass spectrometry. J. Agric. Food Chem. 2004, 52, 5322-8.
5. Rand WM, Pellett PL, Young VR. Meta-analysis of nitrogen balance studies for estimating protein requirements in healthy adults. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 2003, 77, 109-27.
6. Jenkins DJ, Mirrahimi A, Srichaikul K, Berryman CE, Wang L, Carleton A, Abdulnour S, Sievenpiper JL, Kendall CW, et al. Soy protein reduces serum cholesterol by both intrinsic and food displacement mechanisms. J. Nutr. 2010, 140, 2302S-2311S.
7. Ramsden CE, Hibbeln JR, Majchrzak SF, Davis JM. n-6 Fatty acid-specific and mixed polyunsaturate dietary interventions have different effects on CHD risk: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials. Br. J. Nutr. 2010, 104, 1586-600.
8. Dong JY, Tong X, Wu ZW, Xun PC, He K, Qin LQ. Effect of soya protein on blood pressure: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials. Br. J. Nutr. 2011, 1-10.
9. Li SH, Liu XX, Bai YY, Wang XJ, Sun K, Chen JZ, Hui RT. Effect of oral isoflavone supplementation on vascular endothelial function in postmenopausal women: a metaanalysis of randomized placebo-controlled trials. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 2010, 91, 480-6.
10. Messina M, Hilakivi-Clarke L. Early intake appears to be the key to the proposed protective effects of soy intake against breast cancer. Nutr. Cancer. 2009, 61, 792-798.
11. Messina M, Wu AH. Perspectives on the soy-breast cancer relation. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 2009, 89, 1673S-1679S.
12. Yan L, Spitznagel EL. Soy consumption and prostate cancer risk in men: a revisit of a meta-analysis. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 2009, 89, 1155-63.
13. Messina M, Kucuk O, Lampe JW. An overview of the health effects of isoflavones with an emphasis on prostate cancer risk and prostate-specific antigen levels. J. AOAC Int. 2006, 89, 1121-34.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
Excellent post on soy.
sizematters10
Guest
It may not be "necessary" but if it comes down to efficiency.... how can it be argued that consuming protein ONLY in the waking hours, on par with a quicker digesting protein pre bed or not eating before bed, will be as effective as having amino acids digesting throughout the night with elevated nitrogen levels? We acknowledge without much controversy that the body is only able to digest certain amounts of nutrition in certain windows, so it is generally accepted to spread out nutrient intake. Applying this principle to one obtaining their macros in say a 16hr window vs. them obtaining their desired macros spread out in a 24hr window, the logic would seem rather straight forward. Now I know this principle is not a constant as sometimes there are critical windows where one wants to load protein and solicit an insulin spike post workout among other similar type windows, but I think in general a fast of 6-8hrs would never be DESIRABLE. One may not break into a catabolic state, as this may be delayed to circumstances where one is in a fast for more than a day or something like that, but from a nutrition partioning standpoint I don't see why this is an "outdated" viewpoint.
Powercage
Board Sponsor
Because nutrient timing is largely irrelevant in a 24 hour period. You are under the assumption that we are less efficient at processing and using nutrients if we have a 6-8 hour fast window
Hit your macros during the day and it doesnt matter. We can most likely absorb and utilize on the order of 100+ grams of protein in one meal. Sure I believe there should be some spacing out of nutrients as I wouldnt want to take an entire days worth of macros in one meal, but the concern of being less efficient overnight is not really a worry for me based off of the most recent research
Now thats not saying that you wont use nutrients taken in overnight. Having cottage cheese or milk pre-bed is just fine (assuming they are counted in your macros). It just isnt any more efficient than say getting a meal in at 8 PM to finish off your daily macros and going to bed at 10
What we are mentioning more is that people should not be concerned with buying a dedicated casein product. Its a waste of money if you are doing it simply to ward off catabolism at night time. Get a straight whey or a blend for more utility. Better uses of your cash
Hit your macros during the day and it doesnt matter. We can most likely absorb and utilize on the order of 100+ grams of protein in one meal. Sure I believe there should be some spacing out of nutrients as I wouldnt want to take an entire days worth of macros in one meal, but the concern of being less efficient overnight is not really a worry for me based off of the most recent research
Now thats not saying that you wont use nutrients taken in overnight. Having cottage cheese or milk pre-bed is just fine (assuming they are counted in your macros). It just isnt any more efficient than say getting a meal in at 8 PM to finish off your daily macros and going to bed at 10
What we are mentioning more is that people should not be concerned with buying a dedicated casein product. Its a waste of money if you are doing it simply to ward off catabolism at night time. Get a straight whey or a blend for more utility. Better uses of your cash
mr.cooper69
Legend
Your post is rife with errors. The upper limit on protein digestion/absorption is pretty much non-existent within reason. It is not "generally" accepted to spread out meals. Bodybuilders do so for satiety purposes only. However, some people prefer intermittent fasting, and see equally good results consuming 3000+ calories in one sitting.
Also, there is NEVER a period in a recreational bodybuilder's day when eliciting an insulin spike is necessary or favorable. A fast for 6-8 hours is absolutely fine...what you give up in protein synthesis, you make up for in lipolysis and other factors. All things constant, your body composition will be equal when fasting for 23 hours and eating for 1 hour vs eating every 2 hours.
Nutrient timing is irrelevant for the recreational bodybuilder, period, with respect to body composition. With respect to performance, a high carb meal 2 hours preworkout can indirectly better body composition by improving performance in the gym.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
So my package came in. Last night was my first serving with 1 cap of need2slin. There is around 6 grams of carbs between the shake and the cottage cheese. I was not hungry at night. Will keep you posted. This is also good on trips I can't take stops for.
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
This so far is not great tasting but with a little water and i wash it down I'm good to go. I get around 25 grams at night.
criticalbench
Legend
djbombsquad
Board Sponsor
I do before sleep and one apon waking up too