carbs great for losing weight???

phatmike0704

phatmike0704

Well-known member
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i thought we are supposed to cut carbs to lose weight. i cut my carbs to like20-30g/day since begining december and im down 20lbs and down 3 sizes. yahoo has made a lot false threads in the past such as letting the car warm up is bad (which is totally false) and this idk what to think of this article. is this true?
 
phatmike0704 said:
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i thought we are supposed to cut carbs to lose weight. i cut my carbs to like20-30g/day since begining december and im down 20lbs and down 3 sizes. yahoo has made a lot false threads in the past such as letting the car warm up is bad (which is totally false) and this idk what to think of this article. is this true?
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There's no reason to cut carbohydrates when trying to lose FAT. You can lose WEIGHT by cutting carbohydrates though - primarily water loss, since one gram of carbohydrates holds three grams of water in your body. But, no, there is no need to cut carbohydrates for effective and successful fat loss if your nutrition is targeted at fat loss for YOU.

~Rosie~
 
I had seen that posted on their homepage, but just dismissed it, initially. I just read it and it's a decent article. The points are true. Just echoing what Rosie already said, it's all about calories in vs. calories out; not the source (that that plays a role in other ways) and the fiber alone in a lot of those carbohydrate-based foods is great to have.
 
I've done both ways for fat loss, low/no carbs, and carbs. I havnt noticed any difference in more or less fat loss personally. The only time I notice difference is when doing more cardio. Personally, I think the whole debate with carbs is ridiculous because you can lose fat a million different ways, but when it comes down to it you basically need to lower calorie intake and burn more of the calories you have i.e. cardio, lifting, etc.
 
I keep harping on about this, but its because I am one those individuals not very sensitive to insulin. Anyhow, as already mentioned by numerous posters the fundamental equation in the fat loss protocol is calories in versus calories out. But once you have this nailed than managing insulin becomes important. The macro-nutrient composition of your meal containing the same calories does impact blood glucose levels and the resulting level of insulin in your blood. See the article in the link below for a summary.

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There has not ever been a scientific study done that shows low carb has any body composition over moderate to high carb. The only benefits to low carb is that higher fat may help more with hunger/satisfaction levels, and make it easier to eat lower total calories.
 
Maybe not. But all I'm saying is, as this study shows, you can vary the amount of insulin in your blood by changing your macro-nutrients. So for the same calories, if you need, you can have lower levels of circulating glucose and corresponding insulin. For those of us who are insulin insensitive this is a big plus. By the way I'm not an advocate of low carbs, but rather moderate carbs. If I remember correctly the study shows that a meal of same calorie worth comprised of 35% carbs will elicit a far smaller insulin response than a meal with 65% carbs. And on a personal level, I can vouch that it has made a difference to my fat loss attempts.
 
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And I agree with most of it.

Now - I will say this as a disclaimer. Opinions are like *******s and everyone has one - this one is mine. These are my opinions and, if you hold ones counter to mine - that's fine. I'm okay, you're okay. I'm sure I don't have the 100 percent correct answer here - I'm still on this incredible quest of learning too. But this is what I've settled on so far ...

I'm not an anti-carb Nazi, nor an anti-fruits and veggie Stormtrooper ... but I think nutritionists have it slightly wrong that we need ... ehem ... EIGHT servings of fruits and veggies a day.

And ... I'm a red meat guy. I try to have at least one medium rare steak a day - sirloin and ribeye are my favorite - and they're super easy to cook - takes no more than 10 minutes tops on my grill. Rest of the time I like Chicken and Eggs and Milk. I don't eat much processed food and I don't pay ANY attention to my cholesterol (which is another thread altogether - but for a little "taste" of that controversy - did you know that LDL and HDL are NOT cholesterols? True story - yet every doctor tells us they are).

I believe in a primitive diet made up largely of meat and good fats. I'm 49 - around 12 percent body fat - maybe a bit less since I like to calc things on the high side. Anyway ...

I used to be a veggie muncher - until I started questioning things. I read about a study of Eskimo populations in the 1930's - and the ones that lived on a primitive diet faired far better healthwise than the ones that adopted Western diets of processed foods and dirty carbs. What amazed me is - while Doc's tell us to stay away from FAT - these Eskimos were eating pure whale blubber as a staple. Many say the Eskimos have highly specialized metabolisms that have adapted to this diet - maybe so - but I don't think they "evolved" to be immune to something that Doc's tell us is poisonous for the rest of us European peoples.

If you think about it - Homo Sapiens evolved from lower life forms - but how did they survive in ice age climates where you couldn't grow food and had no way to preserve it? They hunted - they ate meat - that's what they did. I really don't think we've come that far, evolutionally, from those days.

I tell you - in my 49 years I have tried every diet - even vegetarian. But no diet makes me feel like Spartacus quite like the good old primitive diet of MEAT. I think the key, for me at least - is lots of MEAT and lots of exercise lifting HEAVY weights. FATS may kill you but not if you are active and working HARD brothers. Like I said - I'm almost 49 and I have libido and energy to set the whole North American Continent on FIRE! LOL

Now - I don't eat summer sausage, or bacon, or cheese - or that kind of stuff (it's too processed for me). But if you give me an egg I will smile a big grin and eat the whole thing down - yolk and all - and I really don't care much if it's raw.

This diet just makes me HAPPY and HORNY and all the wonderful things you can feel here on this little planet Earth where everyone is miserable and killing each other! LOL

... Your milage may vary! :)
 
I have to agree with saggy... While, reducing calories is necessary to lose fat, it is also necessary for some of us to reduce the amount of carbs, and replace them with more fat, to control insulin. Insulin will cause us to store glucose that is in excess of what our liver and muscles can retain, in our fat cells, and for some of us, it doesn't take a lot of carbs before they start to become excessive. For me, personally, I do great with a moderate amount of carbs. For instance, I might have a high carb breakfast, with moderate to low carb lunch and dinner. In addition to helping me control my insulin, this also helps me sleep at night. If I eat too many carbs in the evening, I won't sleep.

Ok, back to work for me :-P
 
Diet Solution Program

How can you possibly be able to eat anything you want and actually keep yourself in shape? As crazy as that sound such thing happen to be true! It’s possible to consume anything you want and actually maintain your good shape while doing so. This is primarily the one thing that fascinated me and attracted me to the Diet Solution Program. I personally in no way enjoyed denying my body food for the sake of losing weight.

quickdietprograms dat com/
 
I'm still not completely sure I agree 100 percent with the fact that cals in cals out equals results, regardless of where you are getting those calories from. Maybe it's just because I know for a fact my body stores fat on moderate to high carb diets very easily. I mean it sounds completely justifiable in theory that cals in cals out equals weight loss, but it doesn't work that way for everyone IMO.

I think when you find the number of carbs per day for you personally that is sufficient to both restore your glycogen so that your workouts do not suffer, you have enough energy to make it through them, and you don't experience any low blood sugar feelings, then any carbs after that really aren't as necessary as some would think. Once you achieve the primary goal of what carbs do, why keep eating them? That's how I see the best fat loss results anyways. Once I find the magic number of carbs per day for them to do their job sufficiently, I fill the rest of my cals out with healthy fats instead. I guess sure this might not work for everyone, or be necessary for everyone, but it certainly works for me.
 
MakaveliThaDon said:
I'm still not completely sure I agree 100 percent with the fact that cals in cals out equals results, regardless of where you are getting those calories from. Maybe it's just because I know for a fact my body stores fat on moderate to high carb diets very easily.
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probably its just that you a) retain more water on higher carbs not store more fat and/or b) when you eat higher carb you end up eating higher overall calories whether purposefully or accidentally.
 
actually in my experience it's a lot easier to accidentally eat more cals on higher fat diets than it is on higher carb diets considering fat has over double the amount of cals per gram.
 
MakaveliThaDon said:
actually in my experience it's a lot easier to accidentally eat more cals on higher fat diets than it is on higher carb diets considering fat has over double the amount of cals per gram.
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do you measure everything precisely? If not, then eating higher carbs if the carbs are prepared with fats its just as easy to add a bunch of extra calories when eating high carbs.
 
True that. Good call bro. I do measure everything out precisely :) I guess I meant for instance a "heaping" 2 tbsp of PB is going to contain a bit more than the advertised 190 cals than a "heaping" cup of oats would, just because high fat foods are generally higher in calories per amount than are high carb foods. Yes, I know that's splitting hairs and we're talking about a 20-30 cal swing one way or the other, but like I said i DO like to be precise, lol.

I don't pretend to know as much as a nutritionist about carbs/fat. But it would seem to be that there is a point of diminishing returns on carbs, I mean you can only fill and saturate the muscles with glycogen just so much before they don't really require anymore, and what happens to the rest after that you know? And from what I understand, that is the basic function of carbs, that and immediate energy, they don't actually help in repairing/building muscle so to speak. So after you have taken in enough for the carbs to get their job done, why not fill your cals out with protein and fat, both of which do far more for you than just energy like carbs. Both help repair muscle tissue as well as a host of other benefits.

On the other hand, carbs keep your metabolism going faster, all the macros have their pros and cons I guess. Personally I like keeping my diet this way. Around 170-200g of carbs a day is enough for me to have enough energy everyday in the gym, so I don't go over that and fill out the rest with healthy fats, and it has always allowed me to stay lean without sacrificing gains/energy in the gym. I like it :)
 
MakaveliThaDon said:
I don't pretend to know as much as a nutritionist about carbs/fat. But it would seem to be that there is a point of diminishing returns on carbs, I mean you can only fill and saturate the muscles with glycogen just so much before they don't really require anymore, and what happens to the rest after that you know? And from what I understand, that is the basic function of carbs, that and immediate energy, they don't actually help in repairing/building muscle so to speak. So after you have taken in enough for the carbs to get their job done, why not fill your cals out with protein and fat, both of which do far more for you than just energy like carbs. Both help repair muscle tissue as well as a host of other benefits.
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see the trick is, you have a minimum threshold of necessary proteins, a minimum threshold of necessary fatty acids, and assuming being vaguely reasonable about it (ie not all dextrose) really where the remaining calories come from beyond that is pretty unimportant. The carbs do help to repair/build muscles by providing the energy burned in the chemical processes to break down the aminos and rebuild them :) I don't eat high carb personally, probably under 200g a day but I pay more attention to calories per meal than macro breakdown.
 
The only tip I could make is that you must stop being lazy and start working at your own body. Losing weight does not happen overnight so it is better if you can flex your muscle everyday.
:lmao:
 
dietsolution said:
How can you possibly be able to eat anything you want and actually keep yourself in shape? As crazy as that sound such thing happen to be true! It’s possible to consume anything you want and actually maintain your good shape while doing so. This is primarily the one thing that fascinated me and attracted me to the Diet Solution Program. I personally in no way enjoyed denying my body food for the sake of losing weight.
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Very possible - just look at me, LOL. Even though I sometimes may not stay as lean as I want to be and be in the condition I want to be in, I am still relatively lean compared to most - I am one of those individuals whose nutrition is not the most important thing, but my TRAINING Is, and through training hard and intense enough, I "make up" for my lack of dietary discipline. No advisable for everyone though, and I am actually working on being better re nutrition, since my body hates me for the way I treat it!

~Rosie~
 
saggy321 said:
Maybe not. But all I'm saying is, as this study shows, you can vary the amount of insulin in your blood by changing your macro-nutrients. So for the same calories, if you need, you can have lower levels of circulating glucose and corresponding insulin. For those of us who are insulin insensitive this is a big plus. By the way I'm not an advocate of low carbs, but rather moderate carbs. If I remember correctly the study shows that a meal of same calorie worth comprised of 35% carbs will elicit a far smaller insulin response than a meal with 65% carbs. And on a personal level, I can vouch that it has made a difference to my fat loss attempts.
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Still on about this?

Yes a meal with fewer carbs (but same overall calories) will illicit a smaller insulin response than one with more but that is irrelevant to how much fat you store. Carbs require more insulin per calorie to metabolize than fats (yes fats require SOME insulin). Consequently insulin levels are not a good indicator of how much fat will be stored when comparing different macro -nutrient ratios.

The calories are still the same. So by your theory, lower carb must either make your body throw some of the energy away or put it somewhere else besides body fat. The alternative to the latter is either glycogen stores or build extra muscle vs higher carb. Please explain where the energy difference goes.
 
Yes I am still on about it. If you care read properly what I write then you will hopefully notice that I say the most IMPORTANT element in all of this is the basic thermodynamics equation calories in vs calories out. However, through personal experience, and that of at least 3 or four individuals including a couple of amateur bodybuilders, I have come to realise that in general better fat loss can be achieved when both calories and carbs are low rather than just low calories, particularly the leaner one gets. I listened to what you said last time and researched this and found quite a few articles concluding the same thing that whilst calories are important so is the macro profile of your diet.


But hey....I really don't want to argue. I've tried both, and lower carbs works better for me. Not saying that it is the same for everyone. Just worth a try for those who have followed lower cal diets with limited success.
 
airram479 said:
All i know is that if your doing some HIIT,and you try cutting out your carbs--you will fall flat on your face.
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Not that I advocate no carbohydrates or limiting it, but to state this is inaccurate and it will not necessarily occur - it's all very dependent on the individual (i.e. I have for a period of about a week at times had only ~50g of carbohydrates a day and my HIIT has remained effective and fine).

~Rosie~
 
I've dropped around 14lbs over the course of the last 8 weeks while still consuming around 300-400g of carbohydrate per day. I'm not taking any form of supplement. My protein intake is high, but nowhere near as high as most people i rub shoulders with. I'm looking at around 120g - 140g per day. I weigh around 80kg. There hasn't been any noticeable muscle loss. Sometimes i feel flatter, but that's normally a sign that i need to up my carbohydrate intake for a day or so. In any case, measurements are still the same 8 weeks down the line, except my waist is much smaller, and i look in far better condition.

Overall, It's more important to assess to type of carbohydrate consumed and the serving amounts/serving time, rather than the overall intake.

My carbohydrates have typically been low GI - Wholemeal foods, fruit etc... and my biggest serving sizes have come first thing on a morning, and obviously post workout.

Post workout gives you a window of opportunity to restore the glycogen lost during a workout. A full workout can deplete around half of your body's glycogen stores (if full to beign with). So even when trying to lose weight, it's important to refuel during this period. If you don't, over time protein will be broken down (granted this happens during exercise anyway) and gluconeogenisis will occur. Obviously this is catabolic and goes against most people's goals (to lose fat, retain muscle).

Post workout for me usually begins at around 9pm and lasts until midnight. Late night carbohydrate consumption doesn't seem to have had much negative effect on my fat loss. That's normally enough time for me to consume around 120g of carbohydrate. Again, it's required for me to be able to train effectively the following day.

A problem some people may have on a low carbohydrate diet is a dependancy on too much protein. I train alongside people who take in anywhere from 300g - 400g per day when cutting. It's daft. Protein cannot be stored in the body in the same way as carbohydrate and fat. Simply consuming a whey protein shake post workout isn't an effective way to recover from a session. The fact that your body is crying out for carbohydrate post workout, will actually force glucoenogenisis to occur. This unfortunately means that a great deal of your 40g whey protein shake won't give you the benefit you may believe it should. This is especially apparent with Whey as it is digested so quickly. That amount of amino acids entering a cells nitrogen pool at the same time isn't as beneficial as a lesser but more constant amount. So whey and casein, shortly after a carbohydrate serving would be the way to go.

I've gone off on a tangent here. But my point is, carbohydrates are often seen as the 6 packs arch nemisis and this should never be the case. I understand people will have still had great results with low carbohydrate diets and that's great, as everyone reacts differently. I'm just sharing my experiences and sharing what's worked for me.

For the record, my routine is as follows....

Monday - Arms, 40-minute xtrainer cardio

Tuesday - Football (soccer)

Wednesday - Chest, 40-minute x trainer cardio

Thursday - Quads, 40 x-trainer minute cardio

Friday - Back, 40 minute x-trainer cardio

Saturday - Hamstrings, 40-x trainer minute cardio

Sunday - Shoulders, 40 x-trainer minute cardio

The key for me has just been consistency really, with my diet and my training. You need that little bit of luck which allows to have a good 10 week run at things aswell. Sometimes somehting can happen which can knock you out of your rythmn. Like Christmas for example :biggthumpup:

But yeah, consistency is key for me. And having something to aim for helps a great deal.
 
Agreed.

I dropped the decreased the carbs are got SILLY PEELED!!!

Since then, I have remained a low carb guy and hover year round between 9-12% whereas before whatrever drug use (clen, T3, ECA, Anavar, Winny) you name it, NOTHING got me below 15%. All lowering calorie intake did was decimate muscle despite 250+ protein day.

Screw carbs. Get them from healthy sources (vegetables) and reduce them if you want to get peeled!

MOST (not all) bb'ers, UP the protein and LOWER the carbs when entering contests at their lowest possible body fat. I think that proves something. Some go extremely low while others go LOWER. Regardless, it's inarguable that lowering the carbs IS a strategy employed by MOST bb'ers to get dialed in. It is so important for these bb'ers to reduce carb intake that event he copious amount of drugs they are on pre-contest STILL do not trump the need to reduce carb consumption.

*****THAT SAID, I think it's fair to point out that what works for some may not work for others. We are all wired differently. Some get SICK results from low carbing it (ME!) while some do not.

poorejj said:
I have to agree with saggy... While, reducing calories is necessary to lose fat, it is also necessary for some of us to reduce the amount of carbs, and replace them with more fat, to control insulin. Insulin will cause us to store glucose that is in excess of what our liver and muscles can retain, in our fat cells, and for some of us, it doesn't take a lot of carbs before they start to become excessive. For me, personally, I do great with a moderate amount of carbs. For instance, I might have a high carb breakfast, with moderate to low carb lunch and dinner. In addition to helping me control my insulin, this also helps me sleep at night. If I eat too many carbs in the evening, I won't sleep.

Ok, back to work for me :-P
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First off, congrats on yuor success ;)

However, who is to say you would not have lost MORE by lowering your carbs.

IMHO, the battle will always continue about carbs vs no carbs...blah blah blah...I certainly do not have the desire to mind-numbingly argue my sentiment regaridng low carbs........so........figure out what works best for you. For every argument FOR low carbs, there will one against it.

This debate is one of the oldest on earth. LOL


ono said:
I've dropped around 14lbs over the course of the last 8 weeks while still consuming around 300-400g of carbohydrate per day.
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airram479 said:
All i know is that if your doing some HIIT,and you try cutting out your carbs--you will fall flat on your face.
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Food for thought.....

"Falling flat on your face" requires the WILL to continue and separates the ripped from the average. All the cliches aside, have you considered that "falling flat on your face" means that you have depleated your glycogen stores and are NOW cutting into fat stores; provided you have ample amino's available for muscle protection...isn't that the point of HIIT? ;)

Does anyone really think they are going to get peeled while doing "feel good cardio or HIIT"??? LOLOL

If glycogen stores are not tapped due to a high carb regimen, are you certain you are burning fat?

More food for thought.......

FACT: Insulin IS antagonistic to lipolysis! It also blunts GH release! Sure this gets over-played when arguning dietary strategies, but this physiological RULE is inarguable. How are insulin levels elevated? Carb ingestion (and sometimes from gluttonously high protein meals)

FACT: Glucagon (insulin's opposing hormone) supports liplysis AND optimal GH output. When is glucagon released? When the body recognizes low sugar/carb status. Sure, it is also relased when someone foolishly starves himself. Providing adequate protein and healthy fats to the diet negates most negatives associated with glucagon release.

In closing, you do need some carbs. But how many??? That's the $6,000,000 question. It is for you the indiviudual to figure out; and additionally, for you the individual to determine while attempting to gain massOR burn fatas these macro values will need to be manipulated to support your respective objectives.

Glucagon/Insulin activity reference: Invalid Link Removed
 
Whacked said:
MOST (not all) bb'ers, UP the protein and LOWER the carbs when entering contests at their lowest possible body fat. I think that proves something. Some go extremely low while others go LOWER. Regardless, it's inarguable that lowering the carbs IS a strategy employed by MOST bb'ers to get dialed in. It is so important for these bb'ers to reduce carb intake that event he copious amount of drugs they are on pre-contest STILL do not trump the need to reduce carb consumption.

*****THAT SAID, I think it's fair to point out that what works for some may not work for others. We are all wired differently. Some get SICK results from low carbing it (ME!) while some do not.
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they do it because lower glycogen stores = lower retained water. for every 1g of glycogen you hold 1-3g of water. So its relevant pre-contest, not really for general use
 
When it comes to body recomposition it's definitely more than just calories in v. calories out.. Otherwise most of us would be able to eat 10 twinkies a day .... of course at that calorie count most of us would lose wieght, but would definitely look like (and feel) like crap.

Unless you're a genetic freak like Mike Mentzer...
 
Whacked said:
FACT: Insulin IS antagonistic to lipolysis! It also blunts GH release! Sure this gets over-played when arguning dietary strategies, but this physiological RULE is inarguable. How are insulin levels elevated? Carb ingestion (and sometimes from gluttonously high protein meals)

FACT: Glucagon (insulin's opposing hormone) supports liplysis AND optimal GH output. When is glucagon released? When the body recognizes low sugar/carb status. Sure, it is also relased when someone foolishly starves himself. Providing adequate protein and healthy fats to the diet negates most negatives associated with glucagon release.
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Your 'facts' are not wrong but they do not tell the entire story of metabolism and thus they can be interpreted incorrectly.

Insulin levels are actually elevated any time you have a net positive energy balance. That means that carbs, protein, AND fats can trigger increased insulin output.

Yes carbs can supposedly blunt GH response but a low carb diet blunts T3 which slows metabolism. So which is better? High GH/low T3 or the opposite? See what I mean by looking at the big picture...

Like insulin, glucagon reacts to energy balance, in this case a negative one. This stuff should be so simple. When your body receives extra energy, it wants to save it and insulin is the signal to do it. The opposite holds with glucagon. You can't have it both ways. You have to have an energy deficit if you want your body to start burning stores and this requires glucagon output.

The main considerations with carbs are, like Easy said, water retention with glycogen, and also the fact that carbs tend to metabolize faster than fats. Meaning they are less 'timed release.' This can be compensated for with more frequent smaller meals and/or low GI carb selections.
 
Whacked said:
First off, congrats on yuor success ;)

However, who is to say you would not have lost MORE by lowering your carbs.

IMHO, the battle will always continue about carbs vs no carbs...blah blah blah...I certainly do not have the desire to mind-numbingly argue my sentiment regaridng low carbs........so........figure out what works best for you. For every argument FOR low carbs, there will one against it.

This debate is one of the oldest on earth. LOL
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I agree. At the end of the day, you have to go with what works best for you.
 
BINGO

Dstew said:
When it comes to body recomposition it's definitely more than just calories in v. calories out.. Otherwise most of us would be able to eat 10 twinkies a day .... of course at that calorie count most of us would lose wieght, but would definitely look like (and feel) like crap.

Unless you're a genetic freak like Mike Mentzer...
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Fats also burn in the presence of certain healthy fats. Fish Oil, Sesamin, Monounsaturated fats (avacados, almonds, EVOO, CLA, etc)

;)

ninereps said:
fat burns in a carb fire
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