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Calling Bull on Laxogenin and epicatechin

Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
 
I find TD Laxogenin (Iconogenin is better than Dermastrength) and Folidrone and OL Ep1ilogue quite effective for natural supplements.
 
Toff said:
Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
Click to expand...

I agree, but unfortunately marketing will only become more aggressive. They have no where else to go...
 
Toff said:
Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
Click to expand...

That is what we call marketing. Ya know, the same thing that every single reputable company does in order to sell their product or service? They are obviously expanding the truth with these supplements but it is not illegal what they are doing.
 
Toff said:
Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
Click to expand...

Hype is used to sell every product under the sun, and has been for ever !!
 
"Try our NEW natural anabolic! It may or may not work, and we're not entirely sure what effects it will have cos rat studies, but we think its worth a crack!!!"

Not gonna happen
 
Billy Mays was my hero !!!
 
bigsmall said:
I find TD Laxogenin (Iconogenin is better than Dermastrength) and Folidrone and OL Ep1ilogue quite effective for natural supplements.
Click to expand...

I found that I have used LAXO from a few companies and had little to no effect from it. TD I have seen some, but that is just me. For someone who does not want to use PH or Sarms, These are natural ways that can have some effect on there bodies. Yes the marketing is very aggressive, but so is fast food marketing.
 
I had asked Guerilla Chemist if Laxogenin was snake oil in one of his Q&A's

He laughed when he read my question and then his response was he has never been able to find any concrete evidence that it does anything besides some Russian claim that it had similar properties to Anavar.
 
Toff said:
Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
Click to expand...

Congratulations!

You have reached the highest level of woke-ness: the realization that mass marketing isn't always 100% truthful

welcome to the real world neo... you have been unplugged from the matrix.
 
@OP Toff Islander73
How old are you guys and how strong are you?
People release more myostatin as they approach their genetic limit, so the stronger someone is, the more they'll be affected by myostatin.
This means that myostatin inhibitors are less effective for the less strong.

As for myostatin and testosterone.
Think of testosterone as a key 'driver' of muscle growth. Myostatin, a key 'inhibitor' of muscle growth. So even if there's nothing major inhibiting muscle growth for you (assuming your estrogen is more or less normal), if there's only so much driving muscle growth, you're still not going to gain much. Myostatin may not even exert a sizable effect upon muscle growth if theres little driving muscle growth.

It's also possible you're a (very) poor responder to epi and laxo. Its worth keeping in mind that neither are produced by the human body and so no single human body necessarily has the required genes that code for responding to epi or laxo. This is unlike testosterone because every human body needs to be responsive to testosterone to function properly. Hence, the folks who once upon a time wound up with mutations that meant they didnt respond to testosterone, probably didn't pass on their genes, and so their genes died off.
 
Toff said:
Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids
First off since when do building block of anything cause our body to release AA hormones? This makes no sense scientifically also the "catch" is typically used to describe a negative or drawback to a compound. So not only does the author not understand science/biochemistry/human physiology they clearly do not have the best grasp of the English language lol.

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that those that report positive effects of Laxo report lean gains, strength and enhanced recovery as do Anavar users. No in the sense that the magnitude of these positives is FAR FAR greater on Var. It's like comparing a bite of fried rice and chicken to a Chinese all you can eat buffet. lol

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
They are not going to stop as this is what sells products to many a consumer. Most people buying products of any kind in any market have little to no knowledge so unfortunately your beef is with marketing in general and the uniformed masses who reinforce such strategies.
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I for the most part agree that add copy and "write-ups"(no offense to companies that actually do proper write ups ex. Evomuse) are beyond idiotic but then you have to say the same about those who allow themselves to believe such claims. In today's day and age the only excuse for being a sucker is laziness embodied in one's unwillingness to do the research for one's self, oh and some people are just stupid and you can't really fix that.
 
I'm 45 been training since I was 17. I always compare every supplement to creatine. I started taking creatine in the mid-90's and was worried it was spiked when I first used it because of how I responded to it. I've since tried lots of other natty supplements and can tell when something has helped me gain strength (nothing has been as good as creatine btw). I could be a non responder etc. to epi. I wish it worked tbh as I like stuff that is actually good for you health wise and helps you get stronger. I really doubt myostatin blocking would have anything to do with any strength gains people are getting from it. Myostatin blocking drugs block way more myostatin than any epi. possibly could and they take a long time to have any real world effects. Just my take on it.
 
Islander73 said:
I'm 45 been training since I was 17. I always compare every supplement to creatine. I started taking creatine in the mid-90's and was worried it was spiked when I first used it because of how I responded to it. I've since tried lots of other natty supplements and can tell when something has helped me gain strength (nothing has been as good as creatine btw). I could be a non responder etc. to epi. I wish it worked tbh as I like stuff that is actually good for you health wise and helps you get stronger. I really doubt myostatin blocking would have anything to do with any strength gains people are getting from it. Myostatin blocking drugs block way more myostatin than any epi. possibly could and they take a long time to have any real world effects. Just my take on it.
Click to expand...

I have never responded well to Creatine, funny how we are all different ???
 
kelvarnsen said:
I had asked Guerilla Chemist if Laxogenin was snake oil in one of his Q&A's

He laughed when he read my question and then his response was he has never been able to find any concrete evidence that it does anything besides some Russian claim that it had similar properties to Anavar.
Click to expand...

So like Siberian Ginseng then.. .Russians investigate.. dump it.... move on
 
Im afraid this is not acceptable. I dont know what your standards are in the rest of the world but I guess that's why everyone puts Great Britain on a pedestal

"Deceptive advertising, also known as false advertising, refers to a manufacturer's use of confusing, misleading, or blatantly untrue statements when promoting a product. Advertising law will protect consumers from deceptive advertising through the enforcement of specific legislation. Advertising law and consumer law have basically the same function: to promote truth in labeling."
Claim-belief interaction occurs when an advertiser's misleading claim results in an untrue assumption by the consumer.

In the UK we have trading standards and the office of fair trading:

Advertising to consumers
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations mean you cannot mislead or harass consumers by, for example:

including false or deceptive messages
leaving out important information
using aggressive sales techniques
Penalties
If you break the regulations, you could be reported to a local Trading Standards office. You could be fined, prosecuted or imprisoned.

6. Pulling the wool over their eyes
Passing on materially inaccurate information on market
conditions or on the possibility of finding the product
with the intention of inducing the consumer to acquire
the product at conditions less favourable than normal
market conditions.

Describing your product
You must describe your product accurately. This means if you make a claim about your product, you must be able to prove what you say.

All marketing and advertising must be:

an accurate description of the product or service
legal
decent
truthful
honest
socially responsible (not encouraging illegal, unsafe or anti-social behaviour)

ref
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Describing your product
You must describe your product accurately. This means if you make a claim about your product, you must be able to prove what you say.
 
idk iv always liked epi if not for the endurance boost but for health benefits and the one time i tried laxo my lifts seemed to go up




not all of us want to **** up our hormone balance for a cycle
 
Toff said:
I must have tried all kinds, of each, and Im calling the reviews bull and the products bunk.

Ive tried pills, potions ,lotions and its snake oil, different brands, different doses.

Not a responder? If I give you 50mg of Winnie or 600mg of test cyp will you be a non-responder? It eiither is a non hormonal anabolic or it isnt.


No gains, no strength, placebo.


Unless you can provide me with scientific studies of significance (1% increase in protein synthesis is not going to cut it - Id get more from eating a red meat product) All studies i read were from real synthetic compounds that these claim to enhance (queue myostatin muscly cow pics)

If you recall couple of years ago everyone was mega dosing Tribulus, ecdysterone, stinging nettle root, l-dopa (usp PowerFull), Bulbine then onto DAA and we look back and shout expensive BUNK (now inexpensive once hype dies)

Im drawing a line. No more.
Click to expand...

A quality Laxogenin has its benefits. I'll agree with the premise though that Lax needs certain other ingredients to elicit its OPTIMAL effects. That's why I included them in Progenadrex. Being an analogue of ecdysterone, Laxogenin suffers greatly from exaggerated claims. Some of these clowns actually compare it to Anavar.

I'm sorry you got burned. It makes it more difficult for those of us who strive to make safe, effective supplements.
 
kelvarnsen said:
I had asked Guerilla Chemist if Laxogenin was snake oil in one of his Q&A's

He laughed when he read my question and then his response was he has never been able to find any concrete evidence that it does anything besides some Russian claim that it had similar properties to Anavar.
Click to expand...
Maybe the Russians should’ve given their athletes laxo instead of streoids
 
Toff said:
Im afraid this is not acceptable. I dont know what your standards are in the rest of the world but I guess that's why everyone puts Great Britain on a pedestal

"Deceptive advertising, also known as false advertising, refers to a manufacturer's use of confusing, misleading, or blatantly untrue statements when promoting a product. Advertising law will protect consumers from deceptive advertising through the enforcement of specific legislation. Advertising law and consumer law have basically the same function: to promote truth in labeling."
Claim-belief interaction occurs when an advertiser's misleading claim results in an untrue assumption by the consumer.

In the UK we have trading standards and the office of fair trading:

Advertising to consumers
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations mean you cannot mislead or harass consumers by, for example:

including false or deceptive messages
leaving out important information
using aggressive sales techniques
Penalties
If you break the regulations, you could be reported to a local Trading Standards office. You could be fined, prosecuted or imprisoned.

6. Pulling the wool over their eyes
Passing on materially inaccurate information on market
conditions or on the possibility of finding the product
with the intention of inducing the consumer to acquire
the product at conditions less favourable than normal
market conditions.

Describing your product
You must describe your product accurately. This means if you make a claim about your product, you must be able to prove what you say.

All marketing and advertising must be:

an accurate description of the product or service
legal
decent
truthful
honest
socially responsible (not encouraging illegal, unsafe or anti-social behaviour)

ref
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Describing your product
You must describe your product accurately. This means if you make a claim about your product, you must be able to prove what you say.
Click to expand...
I don’t think they have many staff checking every website that sells stuff.
Take a look at pred**or Nutrition’s LGD listing if you want a laugh
 
Toff said:
Im afraid this is not acceptable. I dont know what your standards are in the rest of the world but I guess that's why everyone puts Great Britain on a pedestal

"Deceptive advertising, also known as false advertising, refers to a manufacturer's use of confusing, misleading, or blatantly untrue statements when promoting a product. Advertising law will protect consumers from deceptive advertising through the enforcement of specific legislation. Advertising law and consumer law have basically the same function: to promote truth in labeling."
Claim-belief interaction occurs when an advertiser's misleading claim results in an untrue assumption by the consumer.

In the UK we have trading standards and the office of fair trading:

Advertising to consumers
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations mean you cannot mislead or harass consumers by, for example:

including false or deceptive messages
leaving out important information
using aggressive sales techniques
Penalties
If you break the regulations, you could be reported to a local Trading Standards office. You could be fined, prosecuted or imprisoned.

6. Pulling the wool over their eyes
Passing on materially inaccurate information on market
conditions or on the possibility of finding the product
with the intention of inducing the consumer to acquire
the product at conditions less favourable than normal
market conditions.

Describing your product
You must describe your product accurately. This means if you make a claim about your product, you must be able to prove what you say.

All marketing and advertising must be:

an accurate description of the product or service
legal
decent
truthful
honest
socially responsible (not encouraging illegal, unsafe or anti-social behaviour)

ref
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Describing your product
You must describe your product accurately. This means if you make a claim about your product, you must be able to prove what you say.
Click to expand...

If they had this in the USA no politician would ever get elected !!
 
dont think america would sell any products either!

Its one big reason we cant do a trade deal with the USA as we cant accept the puss filled milk, genetically modified foods or bleached chicken into our country (then the EU potentially if rebadged).

Are MAcDonalds burgers sold as Protein Pattys over there? :¬D
 
Iconogenin for bulking or cutting? Laxo isn’t at the top of my list right now of stuff to try again, but I keep hearing this is the cream of the crop for laxo. Would love to try but after vector i decided to cut and start some Hydra Head 6, started Monday, no thoughts yet. Can’t try laxo cause after this I got some K1slayer, massmax, then ABE I’ll stack X gels with.
 
Rockzilla said:
Iconogenin for bulking or cutting? Laxo isn’t at the top of my list right now of stuff to try again, but I keep hearing this is the cream of the crop for laxo. Would love to try but after vector i decided to cut and start some Hydra Head 6, started Monday, no thoughts yet. Can’t try laxo cause after this I got some K1slayer, massmax, then ABE I’ll stack X gels with.
Click to expand...

I found True Shred from Hard Rock Supplements to be a Great Addition to a cut.
 
Toff said:
I must have tried all kinds, of each, and Im calling the reviews bull and the products bunk.

Ive tried pills, potions ,lotions and its snake oil, different brands, different doses.

Not a responder? If I give you 50mg of Winnie or 600mg of test cyp will you be a non-responder? It eiither is a non hormonal anabolic or it isnt.


No gains, no strength, placebo.


Unless you can provide me with scientific studies of significance (1% increase in protein synthesis is not going to cut it - Id get more from eating a red meat product) All studies i read were from real synthetic compounds that these claim to enhance (queue myostatin muscly cow pics)

If you recall couple of years ago everyone was mega dosing Tribulus, ecdysterone, stinging nettle root, l-dopa (usp PowerFull), Bulbine then onto DAA and we look back and shout expensive BUNK (now inexpensive once hype dies)

Im drawing a line. No more.
Click to expand...

I was just saying the same thing about epi. I wish i never bought it
 
jtmass said:
Someone here gained some real size on his shoulders and traps (without even working out for traps), using an Epi product. lol.. and you saying that's placebo? Dang it!

P.S- Supplement companies already made their money on this ride and people will still waste their money on these..
Click to expand...

Yeah unfortunetly most supps are bunk and ive spent a lot more on ineffective stuff then I like to admit. I still like taking them though
 
Toff said:
Yep had tests for
thyroid
diabetes
cancer
prostate
had my blood pressure done
then a test for test.

However, Women, even women bodybuilders who have low test gain, its not a race for test - these are non-hormonal anyway, so they are geared towards building muscle regardless of your test levels. They do not aim to change test.
Click to expand...

Not really women don't gain muscle at all hardly. Most women bodybuilders are on juice if they have any muscle size. It's takes women 10x as long to build muscle compared to men
 
*uses supplements with $hitty diet and training*

*goes on forums to post a week later*

"guys, wth, these supplements suck! they dont work... i want my money back"

FACEPALM

if your diet and training ALONE are not providing you results, then adding a supplement to your regimen isn't going to help you much

you cant polish a turd

if you're using natty supplements and not getting results then something in your diet, training, or genetics (metabolism, thyroid, hormonal balance/levels, blood cells, etc) is likely what you need to look into as your results are much more dependent on those
 
If you wanna get some muscle for $49 without side effects, just dream .. I would pay $1000 if I can get 5/10 lbs of muscle without side effects
 
TD Laxogenin actually worked for my 18yo son. I was skeptical at first -but it showed results. I watched everything he ate and trained him. No placebo, no sudden change in diet. He stated that he did not "felt enhanced" on it, but pics showed a difference. I estimate that he gained like 3-5 pounds of lean mass on a 8 weeks cycle. Sadly, I have no good "before pic".

Invalid Link Removed
 
Nice Work and great looking kid!!
 
hairygrandpa said:
TD Laxogenin actually worked for my 18yo son. I was skeptical at first -but it showed results. I watched everything he ate and trained him. No placebo, no sudden change in diet. He stated that he did not "felt enhanced" on it, but pics showed a difference. I estimate that he gained like 3-5 pounds of lean mass on a 8 weeks cycle. Sadly, I have no good "before pic".

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I doubt it was the laxogin that he got the gainz from. Give yourself some credit for the diet and training program.
 
fightnews said:
I doubt it was the laxogin that he got the gainz from. Give yourself some credit for the diet and training program.
Click to expand...

The gainz are from hard work and having a father kicking constantly his butt, controlling what he ate, when he had to sleep and every move, he had his own training log (Pen and paper) -and I'm sure one could see the progress in those 8 weeks on Laxo, reading it.
 
Toff said:
Ill quote (and this is what Im on about, really

BLackstone labs "EpiCat is your opportunity to flip the genetic switch and become the freak that nature had never intended. If you want to get really big, really shredded; without changing your workouts or diet around the real answer lays in genetic modification." Riiight.

Ripped Labz "mother nature will no longer dictate how large your muscles can grow." Excellent ill keep taking it and grow to any size

Redcon1 "These types of instances of muscle enhancement usually only occur when a person is using super psychological doses of potent anabolic steroids. And that's the catch of Laxogenin; It's actually a plant derived steroid that acts as the building blocks to signal our own body to produce more hormones naturally." Oo good its like steroids

LGI - " Laxogenin: This compound was discovered in the late 1990’s and is known to be very similar to Anavar, " Oh good I wanted to find Anavar but now Im all set!

THIS is what I'm calling Bull on. Stop it. Stop it now.
Click to expand...

I now it has been said, but Toff it is called marketing. It happens in every industry, not just the supplement industry. Luckily for you, you are educated and in the minority of supplement users; people that can see beyond the BS. But the majority of people are not as educated as most forum members and buy into the hype. We all get caught up in marketing when purchasing something we do not have a lot of knowledge in.

Additionally, you chose supplement companies that are known for over exaggerating on claims of their supplements. Do all companies do this, no, some do and do so to different levels. Think of MT back in the late 90's and early 00's. Just look over the BS, ask reputable members on forums what their experiences are, and you'll be good to go.
 
Aye, but have you not noticed the British ads still have the same hype, only they word it more deceptively?
May increase muscle size
May assist with fat loss
May improve performance
Etc, etc. They’ve gotta cover their backs and there’s ways and means of doing that whilst still selling the “snake oil” to the masses...
Having said that, I’m still enjoying my Ep1logue run so far and will report back when the cycle’s done ;)
 
Rockzilla said:
Iconogenin for bulking or cutting? Laxo isn’t at the top of my list right now of stuff to try again, but I keep hearing this is the cream of the crop for laxo. Would love to try but after vector i decided to cut and start some Hydra Head 6, started Monday, no thoughts yet. Can’t try laxo cause after this I got some K1slayer, massmax, then ABE I’ll stack X gels with.
Click to expand...

imo, iconogenin would be best on a bulk, epi products like ep1logue would be best on a cut.
 
hairygrandpa said:
TD Laxogenin actually worked for my 18yo son. I was skeptical at first -but it showed results. I watched everything he ate and trained him. No placebo, no sudden change in diet. He stated that he did not "felt enhanced" on it, but pics showed a difference. I estimate that he gained like 3-5 pounds of lean mass on a 8 weeks cycle. Sadly, I have no good "before pic".

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

holy **** dude! if only i looked half as developed as him at his age haha... nice work !
 
IronTitan41 said:
holy **** dude! if only i looked half as developed as him at his age haha... nice work !
Click to expand...

Thank you. That is about 16 month after he first touched any iron. Before he was literally only skin and bones, LOL.
Started his training with compound exercises: Pull ups, Dips, Deadlifts, Front Squats and Push ups and inverted rows . After 6 month bench press, bent over row and DB workouts too.
Lots of oats during day and watching protein intake. Worked like a charm. :)
 
You both should be proud !!
 
IronTitan41 said:
*uses supplements with $hitty diet and training*

*goes on forums to post a week later*

"guys, wth, these supplements suck! they dont work... i want my money back"

FACEPALM

if your diet and training ALONE are not providing you results, then adding a supplement to your regimen isn't going to help you much

you cant polish a turd

if you're using natty supplements and not getting results then something in your diet, training, or genetics (metabolism, thyroid, hormonal balance/levels, blood cells, etc) is likely what you need to look into as your results are much more dependent on those
Click to expand...
Well said.
 
Toff said:
Unless you can provide me with scientific studies of significance (1% increase in protein synthesis is not going to cut it - Id get more from eating a red meat product) .
Click to expand...

Your right eating food would be way more ANABOLIC. Food is the most important ANABOLIC at our disposal. Take everything under the sun but if you don't eat right it will be underwhelming. I've taken the products and in conjunction with a tight diet and training I gained a few pounds. Laxo was pretty good to me and so was -epi, but I wasn't expecting alot from them and I was airtight with the rest of the variables involved, so I could have likely done it without them also. People don't realize it all the time but supplements account for a small percentage of your overall progress.
 
hairygrandpa said:
Thank you. That is about 16 month after he first touched any iron. Before he was literally only skin and bones, LOL.
Started his training with compound exercises: Pull ups, Dips, Deadlifts, Front Squats and Push ups and inverted rows . After 6 month bench press, bent over row and DB workouts too.
Lots of oats during day and watching protein intake. Worked like a charm. :)
Click to expand...

you guys are doing great... any plans for competition or anything down the road? or just mainly doing it to get him strong and healthy?
 
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