Building Back Up

Great session man!

Also cool that you discovered the hammy imbalance. That could be playing into the unilateral knee discomfort you’re experiencing during high efforts on deadlift.

If it’s the weak side, it could be the weakness causing instability, and if it’s the knee with the stronger hamstring then perhaps that side is getting overworked from having to overcompensate.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I think I said it recently, training is fun again.
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Man that is such a great feeling. A lot of the time we have to go in with discipline until the discipline becomes habit, but once the habit becomes enjoyable the drive and passion kick in

GreenMachineX said:
Straight Bar Pullup 4, 4, 4, 3 +5 negatives
Neutral Grip Pullup 5
Squat 5x225, 5x255, 5x275, 5x295
Cable Shrug/Row 10x104.5, 10x110, 10x115.5
Facepulls 12x16.5, 10x22
Single Leg Curls 12x30, 8x45, 9x45
Incline DB Curls 3 x 9/8/8 x 25's
Left Arm Pulldown 12x55
Double Handed Cake Mid-Row 12x70.4
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great session man, looks like twice your normal volume
 
Training is fun again, one of the greatest word combinations ever!!! :)
 
GreenMachineX said:
Low Incline DB Press 4 x 10/8/8/9 x 80's
Dips 3 x 8/10/9 x BW
Roc-It OHP 12x198, 10x218, 6x238
Kleen's Lateral Raise 3 x 12 x 15's dropset 10x8's
Skullcrushers 3 x 8/7/6 x 60
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Weight: 220.6

Low Incline DB Press 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 85's
Roc-It OHP 9x218, 8x238, 6x258, 8x198
Dips 8, 8, 7, 6
Lateral Raise 3 x 12/10/10 x 17.5's
Skullcrushers 4 x 7/7/6/6 x 60
Lateral Raise (again) 18 x 8's

I keep saying I should bring everything back to 3 sets, but never do it. I just feel like it's not complete if I don't, but I know to not trust "feelings". I think I'm recovering between sessions just fine too.

Last burnout set of Lateral raises because it's obvious the past month of eating way over maintenance resulted in chest and tri growth...and zero lateral delt growth 😆
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 220.6

Low Incline DB Press 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 85's
Roc-It OHP 9x218, 8x238, 6x258, 8x198
Dips 8, 8, 7, 6
Lateral Raise 3 x 12/10/10 x 17.5's
Skullcrushers 4 x 7/7/6/6 x 60
Lateral Raise (again) 18 x 8's

I keep saying I should bring everything back to 3 sets, but never do it. I just feel like it's not complete if I don't, but I know to not trust "feelings". I think I'm recovering between sessions just fine too.

Last burnout set of Lateral raises because it's obvious the past month of eating way over maintenance resulted in chest and tri growth...and zero lateral delt growth 😆
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Going back to 3 would be good after a deload type of week, then add a set to different movements as you go along. As long as you are pushing yourself hard on the 3 they will do the trick after a deload and give you somewhere to go later in the meso to increase volume.
 
Yeah it just depends on how hard you are pushing. Greater RPE is going to mean less volume required for sufficient stimulus. If you know you need more work to get it, do it. If you are barbecued in 2 brutal sets, move on.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Going back to 3 would be good after a deload type of week, then add a set to different movements as you go along. As long as you are pushing yourself hard on the 3 they will do the trick after a deload and give you somewhere to go later in the meso to increase volume.
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Yeah, I likely need a deload soon at least. Another week of vacation coming up this week of February, so I was planning on then, but maybe that's too far away.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yeah, I likely need a deload soon at least. Another week of vacation coming up this week of February, so I was planning on then, but maybe that's too far away.
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You still seem to be progressing well, are you feeling beat up? I mean your overall strength probably shouldn't be declining too much with the deficit, just the strength in latter sets as fuel begins to get a little lower. Of course a lot of that can be remedied with some decent intra and peri-workout nutrition too. If not already try moving more of your carbs around training to keep performance up, and insulin sensitivity a little higher. See how that helps with training and if you feel like you are starting to hit the wall after that then deload. Otherwise just carry on until your vaca so you aren't just getting back into the swing after a deload then have a deload again forced by your travel. That will also allow the period of higher calories on your vacation to possibly super compensate your growth while off because you pushed into overreaching just before the break. That is the key to growing a little more tissue during a deload having been overreached and eating at maintenance or slight surplus on your deload to enhance recovery.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Traditional DL 3x315, 3x345, 3x375, 3x385, 3x395
Mid-Row Machine 8x265, 8x285, 6x305, 4x325
Shrug Machine 12x90, 3 x 10 x 180
Hammer Curl 3 x 9/9/8 x 30's
Double Handed Cable Row 2 x 12 x ???

Thought I did 3 x 405 on DL because of bad gym maffs!!!!! Arghhhhhggh. Frustrating. Anyway, I know I could've done it. Getting fatstrong is easy for me 😆

Holidays are over. Gained plenty of weight. Reeling it in.
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Weight: 220.6

Traditional DL 3x315, 3x345, 3x375, 3x390, 2x405
Roc-It Mid-Row Machine 10x245, 3 x 6/6/8 x 265
Back Extensions 6, 6, 3
Shrug Machine 4 x 10/10/10/10 x 180
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 8/8/10 x 30
Hammer Curl 3 x 10/10/9 x 30's
Left Arm Cable Rows 2 x 8 x 55

Couldn't get 3x405 on DL; didn't even try for the 3rd rep. Maybe next week, or just accept the lack of carbs and reset.

Mid-Row went poorly, guessing from the DL max effort. I guess i recovered because by the time I did shrugs and curls I did better on those then previous weeks.

How do you count set volume for DL and squat? For DL today, I did 5 x bar, 5x135, 5x225, then the above. Should I be logging the 5x225 or below?
 
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GreenMachineX said:
Should I be logging the 5x225 or below?
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I do, but largely to watch my warm up / ramp up routine and make tweaks there occasionally when going for a big number.
If I'm only doing 5s that day, or 3s, I do 5s or 3s the whole way up. if I'm going for a 1rm I'll taper down to doubles or singles the whole way up with bigger jumps.
 
Resolve10 said:
If you are trying to count volume for what I guess most would say are "work sets" then I definitely wouldn't count the 225 and below.
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Do you have thoughts in regards to what % of 1rm (or training max) you begin to count volume at? (like say 60% of 405, 75%, etc)

And do you have thoughts on at what point you may start counting "junk" volume at lower weights towards total volume?

the reason the second item has piqued my interest is because the former CrossFitter in me still loves to pound out the occasional 21 x 225, which is brutal. And running pulls or RDLS at 225 with bands is a fantastic posterior squeeze. Given, with bands, it's not necessarily only 225 anymore.
 
Resolve10 said:
Before even going into it just putting out this is my opinion and that I think whatever one chooses just being consistent is the most important for measuring change.
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that's true. although it's so easy to get into a gym math habit. 135, 185, 225, 275, 315. I have tried to make a greater effort at being "warm" earlier with that 135/185 where I know i'm not the least bit taxed, so that the ramp up sets can be more intentional, such as 235, 285, 335, 385 (50s), 425, 465, 4XX (40s, then 1rm attempt) etc.

I think it was Hyde who told me generally to keep the jumps at or below 7%? so I keep things like that in mind on the top end as well. of course, that is not volume training though. per se.
 
Resolve10 said:
If you are trying to count volume for what I guess most would say are "work sets" then I definitely wouldn't count the 225 and below. I'll log it sometimes if I feel I need to remember warm ups I guess, but I usually only worry about my top sets and down sets off of whatever I build up to as my "volume" or "work sets". Regardless of what you choose to count though just be consistent with it.

I'd probably count the 375,390,405 if it was me, maybe the 345. The sets building up can count for something over time and in the long run, but most of my warm ups remain "constant" so I just worry more about whats at the "top" and is "challenging". Hopefully you can see my language is a little vague though. :)
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I wonder then, should I be doing more like 5x135, 3x225, 1x275, 1x315, then 3's for all work sets? If the set isn't productive in producing sufficient stimulus for gains, should reps be reduced?
 
Resolve10 said:
I think it really depends on what you want out of it and again to just be consistent. Most of my "strength" work is in sets <7 so I'll usually just run all the way up to the top working sets with the same reps. My rationale is I am building strength (maybe some hypertrophy) not testing in training so even if it takes a little off the top in the long run I think it makes more sense. So like this weeks Front Squats were build to x5 until velocity loss then down set -5% reps until velocity loss I did:
135 x 5, 185 x5, 235 x 5, 275 x 5, 305 x 5 then 330 x 5 for my top set.

But if I am doing something higher rep than that then ya I'll usually taper the reps down a bit as I get closer most of the time.

In general it will probably come down to your work capacity though, so it depends I guess for how much it would effect your top set work.

Hope that isn't too confusing.
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I get it. Regarding work capacity though, if cutting or low carb, which would make more sense?
 
Dustin07 said:
I think it was Hyde who told me generally to keep the jumps at or below 7%? so I keep things like that in mind on the top end as well. of course, that is not volume training though. per se.
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7% max jumps when over ~80%, for clarity’s sake.

GreenMachineX said:
I get it. Regarding work capacity though, if cutting or low carb, which would make more sense?
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Not speaking for Resolve, but if I only have a top set like in the example Resolve gave, I like to use the same reps all the way up as well for the reasons he listed. If I have more sets on the top end & I feel limited endurance/energy, I will cut the warmups thinner to prioritize the main work (because that’s the biggest driver of progression).

Do what you need to be able to safely execute the work sets. But if you can fluff up the warmups though, that can be a very time-efficient way to add specific hypertrophy and also keep you in better shape.


Also, remember Kleen mentioned you can move some carbs around pre/intra if you’re serious about training performance. Gaining or losing, I am never without blood sugar in training. I cut the calories elsewhere in my day if needed.
 
Weight: 219.4

I wonder how long it'll take to get back to 215...meaning I wonder how much fat I actually gained in December 😆

After some further diet testing since I basically eat the same thing every day...if I eat canned pumpkin or drink milk at dinner, I have sleep disruptions and feel like trash the next day. If I move it to the morning, I still sleep well and feel well the next day...even after max effort DL session with moderately high volume. The next test is how egg quantity consumption effects this.
 
All good stuff in here!
 
Weight: 218.6

Peak holiday weight was 226; December low was 215.

Eating been 2600-2800 kcal per day and hitting 7k to 10k steps per day.

Still amazes me I can eat 300g cho per day and lose weight. I've been so wrong for so long.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 218.6

Peak holiday weight was 226; December low was 215.

Eating been 2600-2800 kcal per day and hitting 7k to 10k steps per day.

Still amazes me I can eat 300g cho per day and lose weight. I've been so wrong for so long.
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Man, so many of us got caught up in the low carb stuff for a while. It has it's uses on occasion but they created a phobia over carbs, just like originally they created a phobia over fats. Food trends and creating fear around them is big business all around. You can use some some of the fads, or at least check them out. Many of them provide some fruitful insight, and some are actual improvements in some ways, especially when applied to a general knowledge of how you respond to things. I think the best way to go about things is do your research then research on yourself to find what works best for you in your current situation, because it is not always going to be the same.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Seated DB OHP 4 x 10/10/10/11 x 75's
Dips 4 x 10/10/10/11 x BW
Incline DB Press 4 x 8 x 50's
DB Lateral Raise 15x15's, 2 x 10 x 20's dropset 12 x 5's
Triceps Pressdowns 3 x 11/9/8 x 44
Overhead Cable Extensions 3 x 9/8/8 x 22

DB OHP and Dips moving up! Doesn't make sense since I've cut my kcal down from obscene amounts but I'll take it. Unless, giving up Standing ohp and subbing Machine ohp is working. Halfway through, I could feel the deficit though.

Another thing I've been doing the last few weeks is on every last set, in addition to it being AMRAP, is holding peak contraction on the last rep for 5-10 seconds (or as long as I can tolerate) with a very slow negative. I think I said it recently, training is fun again.
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Seated DB Press 4 x 10/9/8/8 x 75's
Dips 11, 10, 9
Incline DB Press 4 x 8 x 50's
Lateral DB Raise 3 x 15/15/25 x 8's
Triceps Pressdowns 3 x 10/10/9 x 44
Overhead Cable Extensions 3 x 9/8/8 x 22
Upright Row 2 x 8 x 30

Reps going down. Like I thought yesterday, cutting diet is kicking in. Training isn't as fun 😕
I wonder how much more I can increase my carbs/kcal and still lose weight...
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 222.0

Straight Bar Pullup 4, 4, 4, 3 +5 negatives
Neutral Grip Pullup 5
Squat 5x225, 5x255, 5x275, 5x295
Cable Shrug/Row 10x104.5, 10x110, 10x115.5
Facepulls 12x16.5, 10x22
Single Leg Curls 12x30, 8x45, 9x45
Incline DB Curls 3 x 9/8/8 x 25's
Left Arm Pulldown 12x55
Double Handed Cake Mid-Row 12x70.4

Added a rep to Straight Bar Pullups for a few sets.

Haven't done regular squats in a few weeks so I'm proud to see I can still do 5x295. Next week, I'll go for 5x315. Having to do this since the safety bar Squat is inop (one of the pads fell off and the gym took it to the back).

Couldn't do back extensions because the room it was in had a class, so subbed in leg curls. I'll have to keep these in; my left Hamstring is significantly weaker then my right (where they took one of my Hamstring tendons to fix my ACL).

My preworkout: 50mg caffeine and METAL!
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Weight: 218.4

Neutral Grip Pullup 5 x 5 x BW
Squat 5x225, 5x275, 5x295, 5x315
Cable Row/Shrug 10x110, 2 x 10 x 115.5
Facepulls 2 x 10 x 16.5
Single Leg Curls 2 x 8 x 45
Incline DB Curl 3 x 10/8/6 x 25's
Kettlebell Farmer's Walks 3 x 45m x 70's

New top set for Squat! Last 2-3 reps were more hingy then squatty, but still got it.
 
Another update...no matter what I did for the past probably 5 years, I never had BO...but now I do lol 😅 I'm not exactly sure this is a good thing, but I attribute it to body systems working normally, so I'll take it.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Another update...no matter what I did for the past probably 5 years, I never had BO...but now I do lol I'm not exactly sure this is a good thing, but I attribute it to body systems working normally, so I'll take it.
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Hey, for a 20lb increase on squats and 20% increase on pullup volume, you might just be turning on a little beast mode - bound to get a little stinky Nothing that a good shower & some deodorant can’t manage!
 
Hyde said:
Hey, for a 20lb increase on squats and 20% increase on pullup volume, you might just be turning on a little beast mode - bound to get a little stinky Nothing that a good shower & some deodorant can’t manage!
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Well, to be fair, about a year ago I did 315 for 3, so I really added 2 reps, but yeah, the pull up volume definitely up...all reps were clean and tight too.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 220.6

Low Incline DB Press 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 85's
Roc-It OHP 9x218, 8x238, 6x258, 8x198
Dips 8, 8, 7, 6
Lateral Raise 3 x 12/10/10 x 17.5's
Skullcrushers 4 x 7/7/6/6 x 60
Lateral Raise (again) 18 x 8's

I keep saying I should bring everything back to 3 sets, but never do it. I just feel like it's not complete if I don't, but I know to not trust "feelings". I think I'm recovering between sessions just fine too.

Last burnout set of Lateral raises because it's obvious the past month of eating way over maintenance resulted in chest and tri growth...and zero lateral delt growth 😆
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Weight: 218.2 (I think, or 218.4)

Low Incline DB Press 4 x 8/8/8/7 x 85's
Dips 8, 8, 10
Roc-It OHP 3 x 8/8/6 x 218
Lateral Raise 3 x 15 x 10's
Skullcrushers 4 x 8/8/8/7 x 60
 
Weight: 217.8

Weight still headed down. Average kcal per day is 2800. Average steps per day is 8k.

Still sleeping pretty well with my supposed trigger foods in the morning only and limited quantity.

Looking over MacroFactor and it seems like I'm hitting 100% RDA on everything except magnesium, manganese and calcium so I'll have to address that soon.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Still sleeping pretty well with my supposed trigger foods in the morning only and limited quantity.
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that's awesome man. what do you reckon are your worst trigger foods right now?
I'm still curious about those 2-3 days I had where sleep was dogshit, but it didn't really repeat itself. Might have just been my weird december schedule.
 
Dustin07 said:
that's awesome man. what do you reckon are your worst trigger foods right now?
I'm still curious about those 2-3 days I had where sleep was dogshit, but it didn't really repeat itself. Might have just been my weird december schedule.
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I know this is crazy, but more then 2 eggs in a day, or pumpkin, pumpkin seeds, carrots, all kinds of potatoes, and milk. I can tolerate small amounts of pumpkin and milk for breakfast to get 100% RDA of vitamin A but haven't tested the rest yet.

Yeah, I'm curious about those few days of yours too.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know this is crazy, but more then 2 eggs in a day, or pumpkin, pumpkin seeds, carrots, all kinds of potatoes, and milk. I can tolerate small amounts of pumpkin and milk for breakfast to get 100% RDA of vitamin A but haven't tested the rest yet.

Yeah, I'm curious about those few days of yours too.
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Greens like Spinach can be an easy way to get some dietary vitamin A, along with the potassium & k1. You can put a LOT of spinach in a pan with a low-medium heat, sauté in a little avocado or coconut oil, and it will wilt down to just a few bites worth.

Or blend it uncooked into water or whatever, but spinach is a food best absorbed cooked. Opposite of carrots, which transfer nutrients best eaten raw.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know this is crazy, but more then 2 eggs in a day, or pumpkin, pumpkin seeds, carrots, all kinds of potatoes, and milk. I can tolerate small amounts of pumpkin and milk for breakfast to get 100% RDA of vitamin A but haven't tested the rest yet.

Yeah, I'm curious about those few days of yours too.
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yeah that is quite a the list but at least all of those things are sorta easy to avoid. The potatoes probably coming up the most in life when you're out. I struggle to ever drink milk these days lol. I should probably.

Hyde said:
You can put a LOT of spinach in a pan with a low-medium heat, sauté in a little avocado or coconut oil, and it will wilt down to just a few bites worth.
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Hyde said:
but spinach is a food best absorbed cooked
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Ironically it's one of those things I like raw, although my wife will often put it in a stir fry as well. we usually add some spinach to our salads every week.
 
Dustin07 said:
yeah that is quite a the list but at least all of those things are sorta easy to avoid. The potatoes probably coming up the most in life when you're out. I struggle to ever drink milk these days lol. I should probably.
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Yeah, it's not really a big deal, and it's not *always*. It does seem to be caloric dependant on some level (maybe). In other words, if I eat >4 kcal, it doesn't seem to matter as much. I've had huge milk shakes after a night of pizza and slept great. The potatoes I'm unsure about, mostly because I haven't explored it as well. The thing I'm most sure of is if I eat those foods with kcal under 2800 or so, I'll sleep very poorly and feel like extra garbage the following day. Not just tired, but that excessive achiness, soreness, irritability, poor memory, etc.
 
GreenMachineX said:
The thing I'm most sure of is if I eat those foods with kcal under 2800 or so, I'll sleep very poorly and feel like extra garbage the following day. Not just tired, but that excessive achiness, soreness, irritability, poor memory, etc.
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I get that way in a caloric deficit but funny enough, not so much when I'm 100% fasted. it's another reason I think that I've really taken to the fasting. 36-60hrs of not eating anything seems a lot easier on me, and my mental state, than 7 days in a deficit.
 
Sounds good man, micronutrients on point, the other 3 are easy to supplement if needed as well.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 220.6

Traditional DL 3x315, 3x345, 3x375, 3x390, 2x405
Roc-It Mid-Row Machine 10x245, 3 x 6/6/8 x 265
Back Extensions 6, 6, 3
Shrug Machine 4 x 10/10/10/10 x 180
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 8/8/10 x 30
Hammer Curl 3 x 10/10/9 x 30's
Left Arm Cable Rows 2 x 8 x 55

Couldn't get 3x405 on DL; didn't even try for the 3rd rep. Maybe next week, or just accept the lack of carbs and reset.

Mid-Row went poorly, guessing from the DL max effort. I guess i recovered because by the time I did shrugs and curls I did better on those then previous weeks.

How do you count set volume for DL and squat? For DL today, I did 5 x bar, 5x135, 5x225, then the above. Should I be logging the 5x225 or below?
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Weight: 217.4

Traditional DL 3x315, 3x345, 3x375, 3x390, 3x405
Back Extensions 3 x 5
Mid-Row Machine 10x245, 3 x 8/9/8 x 265
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10 x 30
Shrug Machine 3 x 10 x 170
Hammer Curls 3 x 10 x 30's

Finally got 405 for 3 reps. A little ugly on the first rep, but got it.
 
I really want to see these back extensions now, knowing that you can rep a 405 deadlift but can’t even do 6 back extensions. Something seems very off there - so much of a discrepancy that I am wondering if you are doing something very different from the normal execution of them.
 
Hyde said:
I really want to see these back extensions now, knowing that you can rep a 405 deadlift but can’t even do 6 back extensions. Something seems very off there - so much of a discrepancy that I am wondering if you are doing something very different from the normal execution of them.
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I might be doing them very differently. I keep a straight back the entire time like a Romanian dead or good morning and the pad low on my quads to purposely keep focus on hamstrings only. But keep in mind I can only do 45 pound single leg curls for reps.
 
Stuck awake since 3am. Considering I went to bed at 9pm, it's not too bad, but this is usually the recipe for horrible PEM. Praying against that!

Weight: 217.2
 
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GreenMachineX said:
I might be doing them very differently. I keep a straight back the entire time like a Romanian dead or good morning and the pad low on my quads to purposely keep focus on hamstrings only. But keep in mind I can only do 45 pound single leg curls for reps.
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That makes total sense. You’re doing it more as a hamstring accessory, as the low pad makes it harder & shifts a lot of focus to them as you mentioned, and you have relatively weaker hammies.

Which means it’s the perfect thing for you to be doing, so drive those hard!
 
Hyde said:
That makes total sense. You’re doing it more as a hamstring accessory, as the low pad makes it harder & shifts a lot of focus to them as you mentioned, and you have relatively weaker hammies.

Which means it’s the perfect thing for you to be doing, so drive those hard!
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Right on. I'll keep it up. I'm actually surprised I'm not too sore from yesterday's workout, all things considered.

It's also interesting how only certain exercises make me sore. Rows and ohp never get me sore, while squats and chest presses always get me sore.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Right on. I'll keep it up. I'm actually surprised I'm not too sore from yesterday's workout, all things considered.

It's also interesting how only certain exercises make me sore. Rows and ohp never get me sore, while squats and chest presses always get me sore.
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This is actually pretty common, everyone has muscles that fire harder, have more mind muscle connection, or are slower to recover. I have a hard time getting my shoulders, and back sore at all, quads will get a touch of soreness, chest will actually get truly sore on occasion, and hamstrings get sore more easily from RDL's / Stiff legged deads, and adductors will get sore. Everything else is very hard for me to get DOMS in unless I am just deconditioned.
 
@Hyde
What brand of cluster do you use? I'm trying to find one that we know isn't just flour but nothing else added to it. I'm liking VersaCarb, but anything over 30g gives me gas for hours 😆
 
Resolve10 said:
I think everyone has certain muscles they don't get as sore probably due to a variety of issues, but that doesn't sound too unusual. You'll get a deeper "stretch" on many chest presses and squat variations and the stretch can lend itself to being more likely to produce DOMS for some people.



You mean nothing else like just straight Cluster Dextrin? Idk of any off the top of my head, I use Nutrabio a lot and I know @sns8778 has shared Gaspari Glycofuse sales with me before, but both of those have added electrolytes.
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Thanks. Yeah, I've seen those, I'm just wary of using electrolyte powders due to being on telmisartan and all the warnings about supplemental potassium.
 
GreenMachineX said:
It's also interesting how only certain exercises make me sore. Rows and ohp never get me sore, while squats and chest presses always get me sore.
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man now days unless I throw in something I haven't done for a while, I can't figure a rhyme or reason to the occasional doms. my pull session this week was deads > rdls > back extensions > leg curls. all pretty normal for me, but I had glute doms within hours lol. Other days I could double the volume or PR and not have any doms in the same movements.
 
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