Building Back Up

GreenMachineX said:
But it was only 315. With straps (on a good day), I could do a bit more.
Click to expand...

I get that, I know your capable of much more. But I recall the first time I pulled 315 clean with decent form and I know that vast majority of the general public can't. so when your worst day is pick up 315lbs 15 times as a hobby, you're OK.
 
Dustin07 said:
I get that, I know your capable of much more. But I recall the first time I pulled 315 clean with decent form and I know that vast majority of the general public can't. so when your worst day is pick up 315lbs 15 times as a hobby, you're OK.
Click to expand...
Good point. At least it was practice.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. Make sense. Starting to wonder if my thyroid dose is too high. My labs look OK on regular laboratories, but those results are always very different vs. Quest Labs with regard to testosterone levels.
Click to expand...
Doubtful, are you feeling weaker, or losing muscle mass right now? If your T3/T4 was too high that would likely be the case.
Dustin07 said:
it's hard to get an accurate baseline around here because everyone is using a different supplement or PED or Rx and even among us nattys (well, sorta) there is a mix of age groups, output, and in my case someone who likely chronically ate below maintenance too long. I told myself my new upper limit was 210lbs. (bear in mind, up from 183). I hit 207 last week at home with my wife and honestly it was the first time in like 12 years where I just felt and looked fat. I don't mind gaining weight for performance but I want to keep it productive. Today I was back down to 200.6lbs. trying to stay hydrated so I don't fool the scale, trying to keep cardio to LISS so I don't overdo it, and trying to eat for performance on my lifting days.
Click to expand...
More importantly, everyone has their own baseline depending on what they do. I am burning close to 2000 calories a week with my cardio right now, not including any increase in metabolism post workout from the harder effort I am putting in there.
GreenMachineX said:
Man, we might be the same weight in a few months. Any idea what bf you might be? Pretty sure I got you beat still by a long shot lol

I've had the recent realization that I have no idea what I really look like. Looking back through pictures where I thought I was big, lean, fat, jacked, etc, and what I thought I saw in the mirror never matched what I felt lol
Click to expand...
That is what weekly or bi-weekly progress pics will get you. I take mine using my webcam using a 10 second delay in the native Windows Camera app. So you can do this too if you have a laptop. You don't have to share them but they will give you a more accurate idea of what you look like. An undoctored picture of yourself won't lie to you about how you look. They are heartless that way.
GreenMachineX said:
I wish we could come up with a standard definition of natty that everyone could agree on.
Click to expand...
I think we have one. No external hormones or PED's of any kind. As Hyde mentions below, even medical prescriptions that have a PED like effect would not be considered natural.
GreenMachineX said:
On another note...I feel like I should say my anxiety is greatly improved day to day. Overall, I just feel better and not worried about silly health things constantly. I can even tolerate small amounts of caffeine again!
Click to expand...
I love this for you! Most important update I have seen you make recently IMHO!!!
GreenMachineX said:
I'll come back to that discussion in a little bit, but need some input for today's Workout.

My hams are still pretty sore (quads very minimally) from last Friday's Romanian Rack pulls and safety squat (that's 3 days in between workouts completely off). I'm supposed to do traditional DL with my lats/traps/bis today. I could...

A. Train through it.
B. Take another day off (which risks of not being adequately recovered for Friday's pull with lower workout though; can't push Friday's workout to Saturday either because we'll be out of town at a resort area).
C. Train DL light today and hit pull hard today to still to be ready for Friday's workout which consists of pullups, safety squat and Romanian Rack pull as the main lifts. If this option, how light on DL?
D. Doesn't matter. See how it feels when I get there and warmed up.

Any thoughts?

Otherwise, 6 hours sleep with a few wakeups, and stuck awake at 3:15am. Might not be ready to taper off lunesta. If tonight the same thing happens, I'll go back to 3mg. I've been at 1.5mg for a week. PEM feels pretty bad right now.
Click to expand...
Well, I see you went ahead and put in the work. Keep in mind that hamstrings can get destroyed with far lower volume than other muscle of your leg. So you might try dropping the volume a little on hamstrings and see how that works out for you as you progress. I think 4-6 work sets in one session on direct hamstring work it plenty for most people since most other legs movements also hit them at least as a secondary mover.
GreenMachineX said:
Traditional DL 5 x 3 x 315 (no straps, double overhand)
Mid-Row Machine 4 x 10/8/8/8 x 225
Crossover Double Cable Row 2 x 10 x 54
Machine Shrug 4 sets
Hammer Curls

Rekt. Should've just taken the day off. Feel terrible. At least got some DL without straps to work my grip a little more.
Click to expand...
You may feel wrecked today but if recovered by Friday then no harm, no foul. Hopefully you are not suffering the PEM stuff after this session and that is what you are referring to by feeling terrible. If just drained and tired rest and food will help with that.
 
MrKleen73 said:
More importantly, everyone has their own baseline depending on what they do. I am burning close to 2000 calories a week with my cardio right now, not including any increase in metabolism post workout from the harder effort I am putting in there.
Click to expand...

I think I'm sitting around 1600, but it's sorta more experimental in that I want to see more activity in my life from a health standpoint and I want to see if I can lean up a bit without sacrificing too much strength and these new big muscles I spent the last year building. 😅
 
MrKleen73 said:
Doubtful, are you feeling weaker, or losing muscle mass right now? If your T3/T4 was too high that would likely be the case.
More importantly, everyone has their own baseline depending on what they do. I am burning close to 2000 calories a week with my cardio right now, not including any increase in metabolism post workout from the harder effort I am putting in there.
That is what weekly or bi-weekly progress pics will get you. I take mine using my webcam using a 10 second delay in the native Windows Camera app. So you can do this too if you have a laptop. You don't have to share them but they will give you a more accurate idea of what you look like. An undoctored picture of yourself won't lie to you about how you look. They are heartless that way.
I think we have one. No external hormones or PED's of any kind. As Hyde mentions below, even medical prescriptions that have a PED like effect would not be considered natural.
I love this for you! Most important update I have seen you make recently IMHO!!!
Well, I see you went ahead and put in the work. Keep in mind that hamstrings can get destroyed with far lower volume than other muscle of your leg. So you might try dropping the volume a little on hamstrings and see how that works out for you as you progress. I think 4-6 work sets in one session on direct hamstring work it plenty for most people since most other legs movements also hit them at least as a secondary mover.

You may feel wrecked today but if recovered by Friday then no harm, no foul. Hopefully you are not suffering the PEM stuff after this session and that is what you are referring to by feeling terrible. If just drained and tired rest and food will help with that.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback.
It's hard to say about losing muscle and feeling weak since I'm cutting, but yes, I've definitely lost muscle overall compared to 6 months ago. But that could be due to yoyoing with 1000kcal deficit, right?

When you take your weekly progress pics, are they flexed or relaxed?

Went to bed at 8:45pm last night to try and make up for the previous night, and stuck awake at 4:15am with a couple wakeups but feel a lot better then yesterday. Still tired, but can't fall back asleep.

Off today; only step count.
 
Weight: 216.0

Yesterday's Macros
2,853 kcal
226g pro
87g fat
289g cho

8k steps.

Managed to fall back asleep for an extra 30 minutes after laying there from 4:15am to 6am. I know people it's best to just get up when that happens instead, but that 30 minutes felt delightful.

Weight coming back down still. Feels good.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Thanks for the feedback.
It's hard to say about losing muscle and feeling weak since I'm cutting, but yes, I've definitely lost muscle overall compared to 6 months ago. But that could be due to yoyoing with 1000kcal deficit, right?

When you take your weekly progress pics, are they flexed or relaxed?

Went to bed at 8:45pm last night to try and make up for the previous night, and stuck awake at 4:15am with a couple wakeups but feel a lot better then yesterday. Still tired, but can't fall back asleep.

Off today; only step count.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I just do a stand up straight with good posture picture but for the most part they are the bodybuilding Qtr Turns, and poses. So front, rear, and both side relaxed then front and rear double biceps, abs and a generic classic pose. Really it just comes down to being consistent with the way you are standing, or posing so you have a pretty accurate comparison no matter what poses you do.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think we have one. No external hormones or PED's of any kind. As Hyde mentions below, even medical prescriptions that have a PED like effect would not be considered natural.
Click to expand...

no I'm pretty sure you're natty unless you're a shredded 225lbs. and also over 5'11".
 
GreenMachineX said:
Seated DB OHP 4 x 10/10/10/12 x 70's
CG Bench 3 x 12/8/8 x 135
Incline DB Press 3 x 8/8/9 x 45's
Mr. Kleen's DB Lateral Raise 15x10's, 2 x 12 x 12.5's (last set drop to 5's x 8)
Triceps Pressdown 3 x 10 x 27.5
Triceps Dips 2 x 12
Chest Dip 12 x BW

Those 70's on ohp felt easy! Got 12 on the last set amrap so time to move back to the 75's.
@MrKleen73 unsure how I feel about those Lateral Raise you linked in the video, so I think I'll do strict lighter Lateral Raise once and those once per week as well because they do feel different.
Click to expand...
Seated DB OHP 4 x 8 x 75's
Chest Dips 3 x 10 x BW
Incline BB Press 12x135, 8x155, 5x175, 4x175
MrKleen's Lateral Raise 15x10's, 3 x 12 x 15's
Triceps Pressdowns 3 x 12/12/10 x 27.5
Triceps Dips 3 x 12

Moved back up to the 75's on ohp, but may have been premature or just an off day. Felt sloppy.

Never doing Incline barbell press again. Just doesn't feel right.

@MrKleen73 I really nailed the form of those Lateral raises today and got a great pump in my Lateral delts which I haven't felt in many years. Thanks.
 
Don’t have to do any lifts you just don’t want to do. Too many fun options to waste time on things that don’t seem to jive.

And regarding the DB OHP…it’s okay for lifting heavy weights to feel heavy. If you are doing 10 reps or less on a lot of movements, it can really feel like you are trying to wrangle the weights and survive them more than it should feel like you’re dominating them. I’m not saying it’s ideal to feel like technique is loose, but with static db pressing it really can feel like a bear to use weights for single-digit rep ranges. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong weight.
 
Hyde said:
Don’t have to do any lifts you just don’t want to do. Too many fun options to waste time on things that don’t seem to jive.

And regarding the DB OHP…it’s okay for lifting heavy weights to feel heavy. If you are doing 10 reps or less on a lot of movements, it can really feel like you are trying to wrangle the weights and survive them more than it should feel like you’re dominating them. I’m not saying it’s ideal to feel like technique is loose, but with static db pressing it really can feel like a bear to use weights for single-digit rep ranges. But that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong weight.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. What does static dumbbell pressing mean?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Straight Bar Pullup 3, 3, 3, 1, 1, 1 + 3 negatives
Safety Bar Squat 4 x 6 x 195
Romanian Rack Pull 5x135, 5x185, 8x225 (last set RPE9)
Mid-Row Machine 2 x 8 x 205
Facepulls 3 x 12/10/10 x 16.5
Incline DB Curl 3 x 8/9/8 x 25's

Where has the Safety Bar been my whole life? I love it. Feels like a squat should, and keeps me Upright instead of turning it into a hip hinge exercise. I'm significantly weaker though. Tried to hit the row Machine, but by then I was feeling pretty rough so I'm not sure I got anything out of it lol.
Click to expand...
Straight Bar Pullup 5 x 3 x BW, +3 negatives
Safety Bar Squat 4 x 5, 4, 4, 2 x 235
Romanian Rack Pull 3 x 6 x 225
Mid-Row Machine 3 x 12, 10, 10 x 185
Shrug Machine 12x90, 10x140, 8x165
Incline DB Curl 3 x 6 x 30's
Straight Bar Curl 2 x 5 x 50

Went too heavy on the Safety Bar Squat I think. Felt like a vibration or something on the Lateral side of my knees on the last few reps, so I'll lighten the load next time and go for more reps.

Pullups are improving though. All sets except the last felt solid with good and slow strict form, with pause at the bottom.
 
Debating on taking things up a notch. I've used lots of things in the past, but want to break the ice again with something a little more mild and legal-ish, so considering either 1-DHEA or LGD. Both I've had success with in the past. Var would also be great and I think my TRT doc prescribes it so I'll have to bring that up. Unsure if var has neurotransmitter effects though.

With the way things effect me, I'm a little concerned other safer things like epiandro, trest, or just blasting test may result in overstimulation like it did a couple years ago, but I'm not exactly sure that was the cause or what it was. Nevertheless, anyone have any thoughts on this, or what liver/heart support I should run alongside? I'm already taking 40mg Telmisartan.
 
Trest, Epiandro, and testosterone definitely have some stimulatory effect.

LGD and 1-DHEA are pretty well known for promoting lethargy, which I’ve definitely experienced firsthand. So those would be safer bets if you wanted more anabolism without turning your brain up. 1-DHEA gives me awful lethargy, it’s amazing how different it is from actual 1-Testosterone (which can absolutely promote anxiety/heightens the nervous system).

Var doesn’t really seem to be something I feel acutely, but I know many people who do. Some men & most women (who are more sensitive to androgens obviously) will experience more aggression and drive.
 
Considering 1-DHEA solo? Would think you'd want to stack at least with 1 & 4 together. Otherwise, I'd probably lean more towards the LGD.
 
Hyde said:
Trest, Epiandro, and testosterone definitely have some stimulatory effect.

LGD and 1-DHEA are pretty well known for promoting lethargy, which I’ve definitely experienced firsthand. So those would be safer bets if you wanted more anabolism without turning your brain up. 1-DHEA gives me awful lethargy, it’s amazing how different it is from actual 1-Testosterone (which can absolutely promote anxiety/heightens the nervous system).

Var doesn’t really seem to be something I feel acutely, but I know many people who do. Some men & most women (who are more sensitive to androgens obviously) will experience more aggression and drive.
Click to expand...
I don't remember 1-Test too well...that was literally 20 years ago I used it. Man, great cycles.

Have you seen 1-DHEA or LGD do more damage to your lipids, liver and such? I think I'm leaning more towards 1-DHEA.

@Segansational Hyde is right. I'm already on TRT with solid test levels.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I don't remember 1-Test too well...that was literally 20 years ago I used it. Man, great cycles.

Have you seen 1-DHEA or LGD do more damage to your lipids, liver and such? I think I'm leaning more towards 1-DHEA.

@Segansational Hyde is right. I'm already on TRT with solid test levels.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn’t mean the old oral 1-Test otc product; I meant injectable 1-Testosterone Cypionate aka DHB. It is rather anxiolytic at sufficient dosage for the individual - it really dials up the nervous system. I never noticed this even with large doses of 1-DHEA (6-800mg/day, in the range the human test found effective). 1-DHEA made me TIRED! Every time.

I would suspect LGD to be a greater risk to liver and lipids, mainly because there is much greater variety of dosage as well as quality of sourcing. LGD is only studied at like 1mg or so, yet people will take up to 30mg or more. 1-DHEA was administered at like 660mg.
 
Hyde said:
Sorry, I didn’t mean the old oral 1-Test otc product; I meant injectable 1-Testosterone Cypionate aka DHB. It is rather anxiolytic at sufficient dosage for the individual - it really dials up the nervous system. I never noticed this even with large doses of 1-DHEA (6-800mg/day, in the range the human test found effective). 1-DHEA made me TIRED! Every time.

I would suspect LGD to be a greater risk to liver and lipids, mainly because there is much greater variety of dosage as well as quality of sourcing. LGD is only studied at like 1mg or so, yet people will take up to 30mg or more. 1-DHEA was administered at like 660mg.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback.
Regarding 1-Test, I used transdermal back then which worked awesome (Avant's Super ONE). 10 pounds the first cycle, 7 or 8 the second and significant gains in strength. I heard injectable 1-Test burned like crazy?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Thanks for the feedback.
Regarding 1-Test, I used transdermal back then which worked awesome (Avant's Super ONE). 10 pounds the first cycle, 7 or 8 the second and significant gains in strength. I heard injectable 1-Test burned like crazy?
Click to expand...

If yours was transdermal, then yeah you would have definitely had some good muscle gains. Even 1-DHEA is alright, I mean it’s not nothing, that’s for sure (assuming you take enough, not 2-300mg oral like some of the bottles suggest).

DHB can leave really bad PIP for some guys, basically because depending on how it’s brewed it can crash/come out of solution in the injection depot. You pin the oil, it comes out of solution and all these sharp steroid crystals can get left in the body that take longer to break down & get absorbed. I’ve only used one batch/source for the 3 times I’ve used it, and the first bottle gave me that bad PIP which I had to break up knots manually. But the later bottles didn’t, PIP was minimal.
 
Hyde said:
If yours was transdermal, then yeah you would have definitely had some good muscle gains. Even 1-DHEA is alright, I mean it’s not nothing, that’s for sure (assuming you take enough, not 2-300mg oral like some of the bottles suggest).

DHB can leave really bad PIP for some guys, basically because depending on how it’s brewed it can crash/come out of solution in the injection depot. You pin the oil, it comes out of solution and all these sharp steroid crystals can get left in the body that take longer to break down & get absorbed. I’ve only used one batch/source for the 3 times I’ve used it, and the first bottle gave me that bad PIP which I had to break up knots manually. But the later bottles didn’t, PIP was minimal.
Click to expand...
Thanks. How did your blood work look on 1 -DHEA? I think I'll start on 300mg or so and build up if I choose to move forward with it. And is TUDCA enough cycle support?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Thanks. How did your blood work look on 1 -DHEA? I think I'll start on 300mg or so and build up if I choose to move forward with it. And is TUDCA enough cycle support?
Click to expand...

At that point in my cycling journey, I was only getting bloodwork after PCT, to make sure everything was fully recovered. Everything was always in range during bloods pulled 4-8 weeks post cycle. Typical cycle length was 6-8 weeks then.

I don’t think you really need anything for 1DHEA, but I will say a single 250mg cap of CEL TUDCA taken each morning for the 60 days a bottle would give you would definitely offset any extra liver work, and be positive for thyroid as well. I think TUDCA has some wider potential health benefits as well. So that’s not necessarily a bad single support supplement to consider if you would like to use one. I take a cap every morning year round anymore as a general health supplement.

I can’t think of anything else that makes sense for support proactively. Assuming you already take K2, D3, & Magnesium. Possibly Zinc if you don’t eat much meat, as steroid users turn over more minerals. If you found out you get high BP you could add something like SNS Blood Pressure Support XT.

If you find out you get bad lipids from this, there are things you could do in the future, but not something I would throw money at without bloodwork showing that for next time.
 
Hyde said:
At that point in my cycling journey, I was only getting bloodwork after PCT, to make sure everything was fully recovered. Everything was always in range during bloods pulled 4-8 weeks post cycle. Typical cycle length was 6-8 weeks then.

I don’t think you really need anything for 1DHEA, but I will say a single 250mg cap of CEL TUDCA taken each morning for the 60 days a bottle would give you would definitely offset any extra liver work, and be positive for thyroid as well. I think TUDCA has some wider potential health benefits as well. So that’s not necessarily a bad single support supplement to consider if you would like to use one. I take a cap every morning year round anymore as a general health supplement.

I can’t think of anything else that makes sense for support proactively. Assuming you already take K2, D3, & Magnesium. Possibly Zinc if you don’t eat much meat, as steroid users turn over more minerals. If you found out you get high BP you could add something like SNS Blood Pressure Support XT.

If you find out you get bad lipids from this, there are things you could do in the future, but not something I would throw money at without bloodwork showing that for next time.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Thanks. Now I just gotta man up.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. Thanks. Now I just gotta man up.
Click to expand...

Hey, nobody cares what you do, or has to walk in your shoes - so don’t put that pressure on yourself. If you take something, it should be because you have fully decided it’s what you really WANT to do as an informed adult.

This is all a hobby, so play the game your way & try to enjoy the journey.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Low Incline DB Press 3 x 10/9/8 x 80's
Roc-It OHP 12x158, 10x178, 8x198
Dips 7, 7, 8
DB Lateral Raise 15x10's, 12x12.5's, 10x12.5's +5 cheaters
Skullcrushers 3 x 10/9/8 x 50
Arnold Press 2x8x40's
OH Triceps Extension 7x27.5, 9x22.5
Left Arm Lateral Raise 19x5 lb
Left Arm incline Cable Press 10x17.6

Bringing most things down to 3 sets after looking through @MrKleen73 log a little more, except for the couple Left Arm Only exercises at the end bringing weaknesses to 4 sets. Dips was definitely better auxiliary work today after db Press. Felt good.
Click to expand...
Low Incline DB Press 4 x 8 x 80's
Roc-It OHP 12x178, 10x198, 8x218
Dips 3 x 10 x BW
Left Arm Incline Cable Press 12x17.6
Kleen's Lateral Raise 3 x 12/12/15 x 15's
Skullcrushers 3 x 12/12/11 x 45
OH Cable Extension 3 x 10 x 22.5
 
Dustin07 said:
I recall a conversation a while back I think when @jinxie was a bit more active and folks questioning the carry-over on declines. One thing I like about declines is it feels like you can overload a bit. IDK, I like them. I think they can be fun.
Click to expand...
Do you mean carryover from decline to flat strength?
 
Glad those side raises worked out for you after all.
 
Dustin07 said:
yeah I remember some conversation on that, to as whether or not it did. but I've always enjoyed them myself. they also seem to be easier on the shoulders etc than bench or dips.
Click to expand...
Sometimes the work is not so much of a direct carryover but if it stimulates hypertrophy then it makes a bigger muscle which can then become a stronger muscle. So there ends up being carryover anyway. Just not "direct" carryover.
 
Hyde said:
If yours was transdermal, then yeah you would have definitely had some good muscle gains. Even 1-DHEA is alright, I mean it’s not nothing, that’s for sure (assuming you take enough, not 2-300mg oral like some of the bottles suggest).
Click to expand...

Back to this again...since I'm sure you've used var also, have you compared 1-dhea vs. var with regard to lipids, bp and liver values?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Traditional DL 5 x 3 x 315 (no straps, double overhand)
Mid-Row Machine 4 x 10/8/8/8 x 225
Crossover Double Cable Row 2 x 10 x 54
Machine Shrug 4 sets
Hammer Curls

Rekt. Should've just taken the day off. Feel terrible. At least got some DL without straps to work my grip a little more.
Click to expand...
Traditional DL 5 x 3 x 345
Roc-It Mid-Row 12x205, 8x245, 8x265, 8x285
Single Leg Hamstring Curl 3 x 10 x 45
Machine Shrug 3 x 8 x 180
Crossover Double Cable Row 2 x 12 x ???
Barbell Curl 3 x 8 x 60
Hammer Curl

Felt something "move" in my right knee on the last set of DL, like a tendon snapping back into place after being pulled away...of course I have no idea if that's what actually happened, but it didn't feel good, and my knees feel wobbly (not the muscles, but the stability of the. My DL is very "tear drop" dominant in the initial lift until the hamstrings take over. Is this a form issue, or a Hamstring weakness like I brought up last week?
 
Last edited:
GreenMachineX said:
Back to this again...since I'm sure you've used var also, have you compared 1-dhea vs. var with regard to lipids, bp and liver values?
Click to expand...

Var is generally mild on BP and liver values, as it’s primarily metabolized by the kidneys (somewhat uniquely). Still, all orals will raise BP some so still worth monitoring.

For many people, Var can hit HDL fairly hard. That’s kind of the one true side effect of Oxandrolone, the reason men shouldn’t stay on it for months & months on end the way you can get away with primo more. The liver could be supported in a way to deal with 4-5 months of Var safer than most orals, but the HDL hit isn’t something most would want to sustain for that long.

Not sure if Var hits my lipids worse than 1-DHEA did when I was younger, or if HDL just doesn’t recover as fast these days.
 
I mention men not using Var for many months, because women tend to have more robust lipid profiles inherently. They don’t take as much AAS overall & are more estrogenic, so they can get away with longer exposures and stay in better ranges often.
 
Hyde said:
I mention men not using Var for many months, because women tend to have more robust lipid profiles inherently. They don’t take as much AAS overall & are more estrogenic, so they can get away with longer exposures and stay in better ranges often.
Click to expand...
One of the benefits of their estrogen being created directly instead of through testosterone aromatization. Estrogen doesn't crash just because they are on a DHT or whatever, so lipids sit prettier.
 
MrKleen73 said:
One of the benefits of their estrogen being created directly instead of through testosterone aromatization. Estrogen doesn't crash just because they are on a DHT or whatever, so lipids sit prettier.
Click to expand...
So var (and 1-dhea also then) reduces e2 in men even when on TRT? I thought only something like mast, proviron and epiandro did that...
 
GreenMachineX said:
So var (and 1-dhea also then) reduces e2 in men even when on TRT? I thought only something like mast, proviron and epiandro did that...
Click to expand...
On TRT it is much less likely but DHT's also have a slight anti-estrogenic effect as well. Many people who run Var run it stand-alone which is where my mind was at. Var was originally created as an anti-cholesterol medication and it did so very well, but it lowered HDL so much they stopped using it for that. You might try running some super-cardarine to help out with that if you decided to go that route. It might help keep the HDL from dropping as much. My HDL was pretty good after 6 weeks at 600mg of gear. I would imagine it could at least help with that a bit.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm not understanding this lol
Click to expand...

I mentioned never having bloodwork on cycle on 1-DHEA when younger, only after PCT, and lipids would be in range.

My bloodwork on Anavar always shows bad HDL, like high 20s-low 30s. In off-time it tends to break 40. So these aren’t apples to apples comparisons, but I don’t know if my HDL doesn’t recover as fast now from overall drug use, age, or if the Var is just more egregious. Probably some combination of all three.
 
Hyde said:
I mentioned never having bloodwork on cycle on 1-DHEA when younger, only after PCT, and lipids would be in range.

My bloodwork on Anavar always shows bad HDL, like high 20s-low 30s. In off-time it tends to break 40. So these aren’t apples to apples comparisons, but I don’t know if my HDL doesn’t recover as fast now from overall drug use, age, or if the Var is just more egregious. Probably some combination of all three.
Click to expand...
Your hdl doesn't get much above 40?
 
GreenMachineX said:
Your hdl doesn't get much above 40?
Click to expand...

Nope, if I hit 44 I’m thrilled.

I’m not saying that’s healthy; I’m sharing for the sake of transparency so people understand there can be ramifications to this lifestyle. I don’t want someone just reading about me taking gear, hearing how I did some lift I’m happy with, and only think about the positives.

I don’t think steroid use means you need to have low HDL, but it will be lower than it would have been, and compound choice, frequency & duration of exposure matter. Someone just taking high test wouldn’t have that problem likely, but many orals, SARMs, DHT derivatives and even 19-Nors can lower it for some people. Even EQ would if it crushed your estrogen. So it’s going to be individual & use-specific.

Diet, cardio, genetics all matter too of course.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Traditional DL 5 x 3 x 345
Roc-It Mid-Row 12x205, 8x245, 8x265, 8x285
Single Leg Hamstring Curl 3 x 10 x 45
Machine Shrug 3 x 8 x 180
Crossover Double Cable Row 2 x 12 x ???
Barbell Curl 3 x 8 x 60
Hammer Curl

Felt something "move" in my right knee on the last set of DL, like a tendon snapping back into place after being pulled away...of course I have no idea if that's what actually happened, but it didn't feel good, and my knees feel wobbly (not the muscles, but the stability of the. My DL is very "tear drop" dominant in the initial lift until the hamstrings take over. Is this a form issue, or a Hamstring weakness like I brought up last week?
Click to expand...
@Hyde @MrKleen73
Can you guys check this question out about knee stuff? Any thoughts please?

Thanks for feedback on the androgens also. I'm going to continue contemplating it.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Felt something "move" in my right knee on the last set of DL, like a tendon snapping back into place after being pulled away...of course I have no idea if that's what actually happened, but it didn't feel good, and my knees feel wobbly (not the muscles, but the stability of the.
Click to expand...

both knees feel wobbly, but only one knee was irritated in the lift?
My left knee often times reminds me there is no ACL and will feel very hollow or insecure in a weird way. sometimes it can be a little sore in cold weather, but it's never failed me in pulls or squats.
 
Dustin07 said:
both knees feel wobbly, but only one knee was irritated in the lift?
My left knee often times reminds me there is no ACL and will feel very hollow or insecure in a weird way. sometimes it can be a little sore in cold weather, but it's never failed me in pulls or squats.
Click to expand...
The one I had my acl replaced in hurts sometimes, but not in relation to this and feels different. I can usually rehab that one by strengthening the tear drop muscle. The right knee though felt the snap, but both felt like I was going to crumble. It was very bizarre.
 
GreenMachineX said:
The right knee though felt the snap, but both felt like I was going to crumble. It was very bizarre.
Click to expand...

it will be interesting to see what thoughts the guys have, you might bring @Resolve10 in for thoughts to that one. I always find pops, snaps, etc to be very personal and hard to give a straight thought or answer to since one persons pop could be nothing and another's could be serious.
 
How is it feeling now, and how did it feel the day after it happened? Is there residual pain? Like @Dustin07 mentioned pops, snaps, and the like are very hard to diagnose as some people get them regularly with no issues and others it means something has gone very wrong.

Maybe you could video yourself from the side so we can see your DL set up and possibly make some suggestions. You may be standing very upright and squatting out of the bottom making it more quad dominant at the beginning of the movement. Not saying that is the wrong way to do it because there are some ridiculously strong pullers that pull that way all the time. However if it causes you an issue then maybe it isn't right for you. If this is just a one off then it might just be that, a one off situation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top