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Building Back Up

Excellent. Glad to hear it. Wait, your fully caught up and recovered now???
Yes Sir, my left arm is now back to being a little bigger than my right arm. I am left handed so it has always been a little bigger. Actually my left is now my strong side again, and I have to start with my right side now due to having a partially subluxed biceps tendon on that side. I don't have the same stability or control on my right side, but it isn't hurting development much as visible in those pics i had in my thread from last week.
 
Really trying to fix this left arm. It's very far behind the right in size and strength, and it's extremely hard to activate the lat, such the super weak rows. Otherwise, good workout.
a lifetime of choking the chicken with one hand will do that. you gotta mix it up some, son.
 
Weight: 224.6

Seated DB OHP 4 x 8 x 75's
Dips 3 x 10/10/11 x BW
Upright Row 3 x 12/12/11 x 50
Incline Cable Press 3 x 12 x 35.2
Skullcrushers 3 x 12/11/8 x 50

Some things improving, but that could just be from overeating and maxing out glycogen storage. Sleep has taken a turn for the worse again, and the only major difference is increased fruit and vegetable consumption. Ridiculous.
Seated DB OHP 4 x 10/10/10/7 x 75's
Dips 10x BW-110, 3 x 10 x BW
Upright Row 3 x 10/10/9 (+1 cheat rep) x 60
Left Arm Only Lateral Raise 1 x 10 x 10
Overhead Cable Extension 3 X 9/8/8 x 36 (I think)

Chest was still sore from Monday, but I did my Dips anyway. Nice improvement on DB OHP and Upright row. Seems like I really need at least 200 carbs per day for progression.
 
Doh posted up a response in wrong thread.
 
I was all excited someone was talking to me...what a letdown 😆
Haha, well if your actually targeting around 2500 calories then the 200p, 250c, and 75-80f would work for you but I think your calories are higher than this aren't they?
 
Haha, well if your actually targeting around 2500 calories then the 200p, 250c, and 75-80f would work for you but I think your calories are higher than this aren't they?
Yeah, my kcal are probably about 3000k. Gaining weight back too quickly lol. I just can't commit to not sleeping and feeling like trash for an 8 week cut.
 
Yeah, my kcal are probably about 3000k. Gaining weight back too quickly lol. I just can't commit to not sleeping and feeling like trash for an 8 week cut.

If you are maintaining/gaining you can probably take 20-30g protein off of that to save some calories. And/or I’d pull fat out to get the cals closer to 2500. At 2500 calories there’s no reason you can’t routinely make 200g carbs work. Just don’t use super fast/zero satiety carbs like sugar.
 
3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.
 
3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.
Agreed. It's too much, but I'm also guessing it's 3k. I know it's at least 2400 kcal based on previous calculations, and just eating more overall (kids leftover chicken/rice they didn't finish), or an extra piece of Naan, extra rice at dinner, etc. I was seeing what happened if I ate enough to keep glycogen full, training hard and not be too over maintenance. Still feel like crap the first half of every day. Sleeping decent though. Weighed 224 the past 3 days so it must be right around maintenance.

Edit: debating how hard to work today in the gym though since my legs and biceps are still sore. Lats are only mildly sore, but was supposed to do rack pulls, leg press, lat stuff and curls.
 
3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.
Also should mention, all the TDEE things I've done like Bodpod, some breathing metabolic test among others has me around 2800-3000kcal for maintenance.

Also, anything over 50g rice at one time pre workout makes me super sluggish. Unsure why rice only does this. This is parboiled long grain rice also.
 
I mean you already have plenty of time doing this so you know if you are at maintenance or when to add or subtract based on current intakes if you aren't going the direction you want. Even by super generic calculations you aren't far off anyways (13 x 225 = 2925).
Yeah, but when things go off the rails, I start doubting everything I "know".
 
Yeah, but when things go off the rails, I start doubting everything I "know".
Ya I understand that doubt is definitely tough to deal with.

that's why I love having these logs. if I'm plateauing on strength and that's my goal... go back to see last time I was hitting PRs and figure out if I'm doing something different. If I'm plateauing on a cut and that's my goal.... go back to "X" date in time when I was hitting good progress and see what was different in the training back then vs now (which inevitable the answer is always cardio, lol)
 
that's why I love having these logs. if I'm plateauing on strength and that's my goal... go back to see last time I was hitting PRs and figure out if I'm doing something different. If I'm plateauing on a cut and that's my goal.... go back to "X" date in time when I was hitting good progress and see what was different in the training back then vs now (which inevitable the answer is always cardio, lol)

This is getting kinda deep, but if you really want to decide if what you were doing then when you PR’d has merits now, also try to look at what you were doing leading up to that block.

Say I hit a bench PR when my 2-board closegrip was seeing PRs in every rep range. BUT that partially happened because of the JM Presses I had taken to new bests in the 6 weeks prior to that. There were training layers in place to produce that benchpress PR.
 
Weight: 225 😆

Flat DB Press 8 x 70's, 4 x 8/8/8/7 x 90's
Standing OHP 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 120
Incline Cable Press 12x35.2, 10x44, 10x44
Skullcrushers 4 x 8/6/6/6 x 60
Machine Lateral Raise 15x40, 12x50, 12x50, 8x50

Small improvements I think in almost everything. Standing OHP is about 10-15 pounds lower then what I was doing a few months ago for roughly the same reps, but it's after flat db Press this go around whereas it was first before...so hard to really compare...I think.
Weight: 227.2 😅

Flat DB Press 4 x 10/9/8/8 x 90's
Standing OHP 4 x 10/8/8/8 x 115
Machine Delt Raise 4 x 10/10/10/12 x 50
Incline Cable Press 3 x 12/12/15 x 35.2
1 Arm Triceps Pressdowns 3 x 10 x 16.5
Left Arm Only Lateral Raise 1 x 15 x dropset
 
Logging macros and steps...day 1...let's see if I stick with this.

2281kcal
185g PRO
64g Fat
236g CHO (44g fruit sugar)

>15k steps achieved.

For anyone, what's the upper limit for sugar from fruit before it spills from liver glycogen to fat?

Edit: Steps updated.
 
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Logging macros and steps...day 1...let's see if I stick with this.

2281kcal
185g PRO
64g Fat
236g CHO (44g fruit sugar)

>10k steps achieved.

For anyone, what's the upper limit for sugar from fruit before it spills from liver glycogen to fat?

Invalid Link Removed

~100g/day of fructose. Regular sugar is about 45/55 fructose/glucose, and fruit is obviously all fructose.

So the average person can have 4-5 servings of fruit daily in a diet with no added sugars with no concern (assuming they’re not over consuming calories or carbohydrates in general).
 
Doubling back with some studies.

Invalid Link Removed No ill effects from 150g fructose for 8 weeks in healthy subjects.

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Sorry if my initial reply was snarky. I just think this is one of those things most people, especially those who work out, really needs to worry about.

^100% agree
 
Logging macros and steps...day 1...let's see if I stick with this.

2281kcal
185g PRO
64g Fat
236g CHO (44g fruit sugar)

>15k steps achieved.

For anyone, what's the upper limit for sugar from fruit before it spills from liver glycogen to fat?

Edit: Steps updated.
Brother, you have got to learn to talk to yourself better. How do you expect to stick with something if you can not muster the commitment to say what you are going to do with confidence. "Let's see if I stick with this." is a very self defeating, and damn near prophetic prediction of failure to come. Commit to it, then do it, and don't look for excuses not to stick with it.

You are going to get miserable, it is a diet, and you have some stuff that makes you react somewhat differently than others in a negative way. However if you truly want to better your position you are going to have to commit to the suck for a little bit. ou never know if you choose to commit through the suck, and don't give up you could actually adapt and overcome some of the things you are dealing with. Maybe not but even if not, you will be happier and a better person for having done what you set out to do. Stop assuming defeat, and choose to say I am weathering this until I get to the other side.

Sorry Brother, not trying to get on to you. I was right there with you a while back, just assuming no matter what I tried, I was always going to be in pain and dealing with all these nagging injuries and everything. Finally I got tired of it and forced myself to work through the suck and things have gotten a lot better, and although I do often end up in some pain, the progress is far more satisfying than the pain is bad, and I was crying over some of the pain I have been in recently.

Bottom line, you CAN do it. Just don't give up Brother!
 
Squat 5x225, 5x245, 5x265, 5x285
Neutral Grip Pullup 4, 4, 4, 3, 3
DB Row 2 x 8 x 40 (+1 set left arm only)
Machine Shrugs 8x135, 8x170, 8x170
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 12/10/12 x 30
Incline DB Curl 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 25's


Really trying to fix this left arm. It's very far behind the right in size and strength, and it's extremely hard to activate the lat, such the super weak rows. Otherwise, good workout.
Weight: 224.2

Squat 4 x 5 x 245
Neutral Grip Pullup 4xBW-110, 4xBW-45, 4/3/2/1 x BW, 8xBW-110
DB Row 10x40, 8x50 (+1 set left arm)
Machine Shrug 2 x 8 x 130, 6x150
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 12 x 30
DB Curl 3 x 10/8/6/4 x 25's


Starting to feel a little achy in the shoulders; might be close to time for another deload. It's probably been 4-5 weeks since I started again after my last bout of covid, so it seems a little soon. I also wonder if I push too close to failure too often and should be stopping with 1-2 RIR on the final sets, instead of always hitting a grinder or a last set amrap. Maybe those techniques just aren't for me at this point with the things I deal with. I've already dropped grinders from lower body, but now that I'm working with dumbells on presses, I'm right back into it on upper body since I don't need a spotter. Any thoughts there?
 
Starting to feel a little achy in the shoulders; might be close to time for another deload. It's probably been 4-5 weeks since I started again after my last bout of covid, so it seems a little soon. I also wonder if I push too close to failure too often and should be stopping with 1-2 RIR on the final sets, instead of always hitting a grinder or a last set amrap. Maybe those techniques just aren't for me at this point with the things I deal with. I've already dropped grinders from lower body, but now that I'm working with dumbells on presses, I'm right back into it on upper body since I don't need a spotter. Any thoughts there?

This is just my opinion, but yes, you should not be training to ORIR or Failure at every session. The studies show there is minimal difference between the benefit of a 3-0RIR down to failure. Like very minimal. Yes each little bit closer to failure will provide just a tiny bit more growth stimulus. However the systemic fatigue increases exponentially with each rep closer to failure, and the amount of fatigue from actually failing is even higher. So to keep your mesos longer you start out easier and gradually increase the intensity, planning to hit a point you need a deload in 4-6 weeks.

As far as how long it should take, the RP Hypertrophy app does not even allow for mesos to be created with more than 5 weeks accumulation and then a deload. So I don't think a 5-6 week accumulation period is a short one. I have to admit since I have not been spending tons of time in the 1RIR-failure range I feel better and feel like I can sustain progress longer. The deloads are actually quite helpful, and shouldn't be looked at as needing them due to a weakness, but instead using them as a tool to increase recovery, and strength / muscle building ability depending on the goal.
 
This is just my opinion, but yes, you should not be training to ORIR or Failure at every session. The studies show there is minimal difference between the benefit of a 3-0RIR down to failure. Like very minimal. Yes each little bit closer to failure will provide just a tiny bit more growth stimulus. However the systemic fatigue increases exponentially with each rep closer to failure, and the amount of fatigue from actually failing is even higher. So to keep your mesos longer you start out easier and gradually increase the intensity, planning to hit a point you need a deload in 4-6 weeks.

As far as how long it should take, the RP Hypertrophy app does not even allow for mesos to be created with more than 5 weeks accumulation and then a deload. So I don't think a 5-6 week accumulation period is a short one. I have to admit since I have not been spending tons of time in the 1RIR-failure range I feel better and feel like I can sustain progress longer. The deloads are actually quite helpful, and shouldn't be looked at as needing them due to a weakness, but instead using them as a tool to increase recovery, and strength / muscle building ability depending on the goal.
I'm going to have to implement that then. Thanks.
 
I have had very good overall progress with frequent deloads of different varieties. If they are done intelligently, and not time totally removed from training, they’re going to help manage fatigue and potentiate training going forward.
 
That was just to still fit everything in even though some muscles were still quite sore. The real plan is always upper push, upper pull with squat, upper push, upper pull with DL
Squat 4 x 5 x 245
Neutral Grip Pullup 4xBW-110, 4xBW-45, 4/3/2/1 x BW, 8xBW-110
DB Row 10x40, 8x50 (+1 set left arm)
Machine Shrug 2 x 8 x 130, 6x150
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 12 x 30
DB Curl 3 x 10/8/6/4 x 25's

I'm always watching your programming to keep learning and seeing how it works out. I don't think I could run this approach because I already struggle to get enough leg work in. I love that you are doubling up on pull for back and bicep work but when I have a squat day, my accessories are pretty much all related work (GM, fronts, extensions, curls etc)

Starting to feel a little achy in the shoulders; might be close to time for another deload.
I have had very good overall progress with frequent deloads of different varieties. If they are done intelligently, and not time totally removed from training, they’re going to help manage fatigue and potentiate training going forward.

After all these years, driving myself into the ground 100 times, always thinking I was taking deloads 2-3 weeks too late, I'm still not sure I fully understand it. I don't think I took a legit deload at all the past 12 months with the exception of forced travel breaks, but the two major things that changed in my training was implementing SOME aspects of conjugation and staying in a caloric surplus vs a decade of chronically being in a deficit.
 
I'm always watching your programming to keep learning and seeing how it works out. I don't think I could run this approach because I already struggle to get enough leg work in. I love that you are doubling up on pull for back and bicep work but when I have a squat day, my accessories are pretty much all related work (GM, fronts, extensions, curls etc)
Yeah, what I'm doing isn't optimal for lower body, but I am adding leg press after my DL on day 4. My delts, and and traps still need the most work, but I do miss having an awesome teardrop on my quad after watching a video from about 6 years ago doing a DL. Also with regard to programming, this isn't what I'd be doing if I didn't deal with PEM/sleep issues. I'd much prefer PPL 6 days per week, or a high frequency full-body every day 5 days per week like the Stronger By Science guys promote, but I don't have the time or recovery for all that. And like I said, delts/traps/arms (the real man muscles lol) are my weakest parts so I gotta prioritize.



After all these years, driving myself into the ground 100 times, always thinking I was taking deloads 2-3 weeks too late, I'm still not sure I fully understand it. I don't think I took a legit deload at all the past 12 months with the exception of forced travel breaks, but the two major things that changed in my training was implementing SOME aspects of conjugation and staying in a caloric surplus vs a decade of chronically being in a deficit.
I know exactly what you're saying. During my one legit deload the past 9 months I still pushed the accessories hard. The rest of the "deloads" were just forced due to vacation or illness. True deloads like we're talking about *feel* like a waste of gains, even though I *know* they aren't.
 
Today's Macros

2,673 kcal
232g PRO
77g Fat
258g CHO (38g fruit sugar)

14k steps today.

Edited for final step count.
 
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I know exactly what you're saying. During my one legit deload the past 9 months I still pushed the accessories hard. The rest of the "deloads" were just forced due to vacation or illness. True deloads like we're talking about *feel* like a waste of gains, even though I *know* they aren't.

I just hadn't really thought about it too much until you mentioned deloads because I became a religious fanatic about them at one point and then I realized that the past 12 months I never really needed one. but I think the biggest difference is that my self regulation was much better this year, the parts of conjugate that I had started to understand and implement took me from DE to ME days rather than ME ME ME ME, and I was constantly in a caloric surplus. I think those things all very much contributed to a positive weekly continuation
 
I'm always watching your programming to keep learning and seeing how it works out. I don't think I could run this approach because I already struggle to get enough leg work in. I love that you are doubling up on pull for back and bicep work but when I have a squat day, my accessories are pretty much all related work (GM, fronts, extensions, curls etc)




After all these years, driving myself into the ground 100 times, always thinking I was taking deloads 2-3 weeks too late, I'm still not sure I fully understand it. I don't think I took a legit deload at all the past 12 months with the exception of forced travel breaks, but the two major things that changed in my training was implementing SOME aspects of conjugation and staying in a caloric surplus vs a decade of chronically being in a deficit.
HMMMM, as much progress as you made, perhaps you could have made a little more with some deloads. It is so counterintuitive, but it works. Even a race car has to take a pitstop to change tires during the race.
 
I just hadn't really thought about it too much until you mentioned deloads because I became a religious fanatic about them at one point and then I realized that the past 12 months I never really needed one. but I think the biggest difference is that my self regulation was much better this year, the parts of conjugate that I had started to understand and implement took me from DE to ME days rather than ME ME ME ME, and I was constantly in a caloric surplus. I think those things all very much contributed to a positive weekly continuation

The conjugate method heavily relies on auto regulation. The main movement is auto regulated, usually the secondary movement’s progress is adjusted week to week. Then accessories are rotated ad hoc and the prescription is to do as much as you feel you have left in the tank after the main work, because that’s going to vary a lot based on how hard the big lift hit you or how extreme you took it.

So if you are almost never overworking consistently, you don’t need to deload as often, and when you do it’s something like instead of maxing out a barbell lift for singles, you do 4x15 db bench every 4-5 weeks. That’s your deload.
 
HMMMM, as much progress as you made, perhaps you could have made a little more with some deloads. It is so counterintuitive, but it works. Even a race car has to take a pitstop to change tires during the race.
So if you are almost never overworking consistently, you don’t need to deload as often, and when you do it’s something like instead of maxing out a barbell lift for singles, you do 4x15 db bench every 4-5 weeks. That’s your deload.

which basically matches my perceived experience. Hitting a hard ME deficit, rack, or off the ground deadlift followed up by lighter banded 9x3 speed work next week... or top set 1-3 rep on bench followed up the same way next time seemed to keep me in check. Up until right now I don't recall the last time I was so exhausted I couldn't hit my numbers and felt like I was due a deload. Fast forward 12 months to right now though, I've brought back in squats, LISS, and a slight caloric deficit. these three things have been a game changer compared to the prior year.
 
Yeah adding all of that in while reducing calories you are going to experience more fatigue.
 
Yeah adding all of that in while reducing calories you are going to experience more fatigue.
I did some googling on the word, fatigue. I always assumed it just meant tired, and I almost never feel *tired* like I want to sleep. I get it now, that it's not (only) that, but a constellation of symptoms that build up. I do think I've been overreaching for too long.
 
Yeah adding all of that in while reducing calories you are going to experience more fatigue.
I did some googling on the word, fatigue. I always assumed it just meant tired, and I almost never feel *tired* like I want to sleep. I get it now, that it's not (only) that, but a constellation of symptoms that build up. I do think I've been overreaching for too long
which basically matches my perceived experience. Hitting a hard ME deficit, rack, or off the ground deadlift followed up by lighter banded 9x3 speed work next week... or top set 1-3 rep on bench followed up the same way next time seemed to keep me in check. Up until right now I don't recall the last time I was so exhausted I couldn't hit my numbers and felt like I was due a deload. Fast forward 12 months to right now though, I've brought back in squats, LISS, and a slight caloric deficit. these three things have been a game changer compared to the prior year.
Wait, so you are feeling the need for a true deload now?
 
If you decide to go for more hypertrophy style training at some point, or even if not, you should check out some of the RP Hypertrophy videos, especially the 12 part series they made while introducing the hypertrophy app. He goes into a lot of this stuff in detail to give you an idea, then he shows you how to do it even easier in the app. However he explains the principles and science behind a lot of program design and modification. So you can build a program or just learn the principles without the app.

Here is the playlist if you have any interest, and of course Dr Mike is pretty funny and interesting to say the least so you will also be entertained.
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I did some googling on the word, fatigue. I always assumed it just meant tired, and I almost never feel *tired* like I want to sleep. I get it now, that it's not (only) that, but a constellation of symptoms that build up. I do think I've been overreaching for too long

I'm taking away your google privileges for a week.

Wait, so you are feeling the need for a true deload now?

na, just need to balance out my sessions and work requirements. I've been doing 3 on (in a deficit) lately after a long time of 2 on 1 off in a surplus. mostly because I've had obligations on thursday/friday lately so I've been trying to slam out mon/tues/weds and it hasn't been conducive to enough recovery when I squat monday and try to pull on weds. I think I'd be OK with my previous 2 on, 1 off format. Squats are moving up after only a few weeks back at them. Deads are just lagging I think cause I'm drained on day 3. not a chronic fatigue that needs a week+ of recovery.
 
Keep in mine we will always have some fatigue and it is just the balance in the two factor model (fitness-fatigue=performance) that we are looking to manipulate when trying to deload/lower fatigue.

you know what sorta cracks me up about this is my wife and I have all these older friends in our 'social club'. I'm 40. they are ALL around age 62-75. only half are retired. but it blows my mind how they can go all day and all night 7 days a week and never seem to be tired. It's like the boomers are out youthing the youth these days. I'm like dudes it's late and I gotta work tomorrow "yeah me too, we'll call it in another hour or two" lol
 
you know what sorta cracks me up about this is my wife and I have all these older friends in our 'social club'. I'm 40. they are ALL around age 62-75. only half are retired. but it blows my mind how they can go all day and all night 7 days a week and never seem to be tired. It's like the boomers are out youthing the youth these days. I'm like dudes it's late and I gotta work tomorrow "yeah me too, we'll call it in another hour or two" lol
Its the workouts you have to recover from. Take em to the gym with you and see if they don't want to go to bed earlier! LMAO
 
Weight: 222.6

Supposed to hit upper push today, but still quite sore everywhere. I'm taking the day off, and tomorrow I'll do a light full body workout, then begin again hard Monday.
 
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Also decided to get some blood work done since it's been quite a while on 7mg test cyp daily.
Total and free testosterone
Cbc
Ultrasensitive estradiol
 
3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.
I know we've talked about it before, but how many carbs per day was your lower cutoff before it effected your mood? And was this amount necessary to cut?
 
Weight: 222.8

Seated DB OHP 3 x 12 x 50's
Mid-Row Machine 10x145, 8x165, 8x185
Rack Pull 5x135, 5x185, 5x225
Leg Press 12x135, 2 x 10 x 230
Upright Row 3 x 8 x 50
Machine Shrug 3 x 10 x 90

Deloadish. Upper body last set probably 3-5 rir. Easy rack pulls. Building up leg press, and it was enough to feel some mild jelly legs. Might do some Curls and Skullcrushers tomorrow, but that's it.
 
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