Building Back Up

[Dustin07]

I noticed you paired squats with a press day and later a pull day. are you mostly running semi full body GPP lifting right now to keep everything moving? did you establish any hard goals ?

 

[GreenMachineX]

I noticed you paired squats with a press day and later a pull day. are you mostly running semi full body GPP lifting right now to keep everything moving? did you establish any hard goals ?

That was just to still fit everything in even though some muscles were still quite sore. The real plan is always upper push, upper pull with squat, upper push, upper pull with DL. But, when I have time to workouts on Saturdays, my upper push on Thursday with include pullups, and I'll take out dips, and put the dips with upper pull either DL day, because I really enjoyed having several pressing and upper pulling days per week, just not consecutive days. No GPP yet... considering adding in some jogging or sprints, but don't want to go through the crappy beginner phase of it lol

 

[GreenMachineX]

I noticed you paired squats with a press day and later a pull day. are you mostly running semi full body GPP lifting right now to keep everything moving? did you establish any hard goals ?

I haven't established any hard goals either, other then just training the way I find enjoyable which is pyramidish. Up to 225 weight today after too much food this weekend. Eventually I will cut, but it's just too hard if I'm doing it alone. When my wife's on board, I'll try harder.

 

[Dustin07]

No GPP yet... considering adding in some jogging or sprints, but don't want to go through the crappy beginner phase of it lol

dude i was huffing and puffing so hard today after power cleans and deads. I was intentionally trying to go through the lifting portion fast so I could fit in some LISS and it really exposed how poorly conditioned I am right now.

 

[GreenMachineX]

dude i was huffing and puffing so hard today after power cleans and deads. I was intentionally trying to go through the lifting portion fast so I could fit in some LISS and it really exposed how poorly conditioned I am right now.

Lol nice. That's exactly what I don't want to go through, but adding in power cleans is very tempting

 

[Dustin07]

I might be misguided, but I like them for rom and explosiveness, as well as some conditioning. But I also feel like they wake me up and get everything firing on all cylinders.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I might be misguided, but I like them for rom and explosiveness, as well as some conditioning. But I also feel like they wake me up and get everything firing on all cylinders.

Do you catch them in the "rack" position, or just clean it up and hold at the top on the same hand grip?

 

[Resolve10]

Going to come off as nit picky probably, but just think it is important to keep in mind the pull in a clean is different from the pull from the floor in a deadlift. If just doing them casually/for fun, then it probably doesn't make a big difference.

There is probably also a ton of ways to improve conditioning I'd do before cleans, unless someone really really liked them (and were good at them) or unless you are really into crossfit specific training. If getting even more nit picky I'd reckon the form used for clean variations in a metcon style workout would also differ from that used to lift optimal weight in the clean.

For power and explosiveness they are tough to beat though, just tough to do right for many.

 

[Hyde]

Going to come off as nit picky probably, but just think it is important to keep in mind the pull in a clean is different from the pull from the floor in a deadlift. If just doing them casually/for fun, then it probably doesn't make a big difference.

There is probably also a ton of ways to improve conditioning I'd do before cleans, unless someone really really liked them (and were good at them) or unless you are really into crossfit specific training. If getting even more nit picky I'd reckon the form used for clean variations in a metcon style workout would also differ from that used to lift optimal weight in the clean.

For power and explosiveness they are tough to beat though, just tough to do right for many.

I was thinking all of this, but I wasn’t initially going to bring it up. But I agree.

I have seen this work for Misha Koklyaev, but most people were not professional weightlifters who go on to deadlift 900lbs, make it to WSM finals, and attempt to clean & jerk a 500lb log (the only person to ever truly challenge Big Z for the log ATWR).

 

[Resolve10]

I was thinking all of this, but I wasn’t initially going to bring it up. But I agree.

I have seen this work for Misha Koklyaev, but most people were not professional weightlifters who go on to deadlift 900lbs, make it to WSM finals, and attempt to clean & jerk a 500lb log (the only person to ever truly challenge Big Z for the log ATWR).

Ya I think it is one of those things you just have to weigh the benefits and negatives and decide if it makes sense for you as an individual.

If someone just wants to be strong (relative) in both it isn't the end of the world, but the stronger you want to be in either the more you'll have to dedicate to each.

FWIW my best cleans and deadlifts have occurred in pretty close time to each other, but that requires quite a bit of extra weightlifting technique work to keep it "grooved" properly.

I don't want to discourage people from doing both, just think it is important to keep in mind.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Going to come off as nit picky probably, but just think it is important to keep in mind the pull in a clean is different from the pull from the floor in a deadlift. If just doing them casually/for fun, then it probably doesn't make a big difference.

There is probably also a ton of ways to improve conditioning I'd do before cleans, unless someone really really liked them (and were good at them) or unless you are really into crossfit specific training. If getting even more nit picky I'd reckon the form used for clean variations in a metcon style workout would also differ from that used to lift optimal weight in the clean.

For power and explosiveness they are tough to beat though, just tough to do right for many.

I was thinking all of this, but I wasn’t initially going to bring it up. But I agree.

I have seen this work for Misha Koklyaev, but most people were not professional weightlifters who go on to deadlift 900lbs, make it to WSM finals, and attempt to clean & jerk a 500lb log (the only person to ever truly challenge Big Z for the log ATWR).

Yeah, your both right. The idea was that I used to really enjoy them, and want to enjoy my pull days again.

 

[Resolve10]

Ya, again not saying don't do them, just throwing out some info.

 

[Dustin07]

Going to come off as nit picky probably, but just think it is important to keep in mind the pull in a clean is different from the pull from the floor in a deadlift. If just doing them casually/for fun, then it probably doesn't make a big difference.

There is probably also a ton of ways to improve conditioning I'd do before cleans, unless someone really really liked them (and were good at them) or unless you are really into crossfit specific training. If getting even more nit picky I'd reckon the form used for clean variations in a metcon style workout would also differ from that used to lift optimal weight in the clean.

For power and explosiveness they are tough to beat though, just tough to do right for many.

zero doubt, but when I have cleans or snatch in my routine semi regularly I tend to hold on to better rom in day to day life. Both lifts 'wake' me up a bit when I get to the gym as well, with a decent endorphin rush it seems. learning to snatch is probably what helped develop my flexibility the most in squats. Focusing on snatch, may be what set my squats back (ha)

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 223.4

Seated DB OHP 11x70's, 9x75's, 7x80's, 6x80's
Neutral Grip Pullup 5, 5, 3, 3, 2
Upright Row 3 x 10 x 50
Skullcrushers 3 x 7 x 60
Machine Shrugs 3 x 8 x 160 drop 6 x 90

Felt good after this one. Progress on the OHP.

Weight: 224.6

Seated DB OHP 4 x 8 x 75's
Dips 3 x 10/10/11 x BW
Upright Row 3 x 12/12/11 x 50
Incline Cable Press 3 x 12 x 35.2
Skullcrushers 3 x 12/11/8 x 50

Some things improving, but that could just be from overeating and maxing out glycogen storage. Sleep has taken a turn for the worse again, and the only major difference is increased fruit and vegetable consumption. Ridiculous.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Nothing worth logging. Forgot my lifting straps, so my rack pulls were garbage. So, since that set the tone, I just did some new exercises for back and quads that I've been delaying adding in.

 

[Resolve10]

Just wanted to confess I did a ton of hang power cleans in my circuit yesterday after strength work that consisted of clean and jerk and deadlifts, so feel free to call me a hypocrite.

 

[MrKleen73]

dude i was huffing and puffing so hard today after power cleans and deads. I was intentionally trying to go through the lifting portion fast so I could fit in some LISS and it really exposed how poorly conditioned I am right now.

Dude, power cleans and deadlifts with short rest periods is brutal no matter what.

Nothing worth logging. Forgot my lifting straps, so my rack pulls were garbage. So, since that set the tone, I just did some new exercises for back and quads that I've been delaying adding in.

Well I hope you at least let yourself have some fun in there.

Just wanted to confess I did a ton of hang power cleans in my circuit yesterday after strength work that consisted of clean and jerk and deadlifts, so feel free to call me a hypocrite.

Haha, great condition tool, and all you said was they were different, not that they shouldn't be done together.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Dude, power cleans and deadlifts with short rest periods is brutal no matter what.
Well I hope you at least let yourself have some fun in there.

Yeah, kind of. I've been delaying working on the flexibility for racked front squats, so did a little of that. Also some light leg press which I will likely keep doing after rack pulls. Also doing this really good Row machine that worked in a way I'd never felt before so I'll keep that up too. So, a non-productive yet productive workout.

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah, kind of. I've been delaying working on the flexibility for racked front squats, so did a little of that. Also some light leg press which I will likely keep doing after rack pulls. Also doing this really good Row machine that worked in a way I'd never felt before so I'll keep that up too. So, a non-productive yet productive workout.

Sounds to me like a completely productive workout. You don't have a specific fitness goal right now so everything was great for a general fitness focus with hypertrophy rep range work. You found a machine you like and did some stuff you have been dreading to do which is a bigger deal than you are allowing it to be. The hardest stuff is the stuff that makes you uncomfortable, you chose that path, that is not unproductive it is one of the more productive things you could do after the way your session started. I say great pivot and stop beating yourself up.

By the way feel free to tell me to hush, but if you are getting frustrated right now with training, it might be a good time to just go into the gym to have some fun for a while. You don't have a specific goal right now, and you seem upset or at a minimum unimpressed by your performance on a lot of sessions. I think you might enjoy yourself a little more if for a while you just went in and did the lifts you love, chase the pump and not sweat the performance so much for a little while. Just enjoy Bro'ing out on the weights like you did back in the day when you were enjoying just being in the gym. Bottom line if you get somewhere between 3-0RIR you will grow and having variety and fun working out is why you do this thing anyway isn't it? The goal setting and plans of action aren't what made you love lifting, loving lifting made you want to do those things. So maybe let your hair down a little, do some instinctive and fun training until you set a serious goal you are going to need a serious plan for. I just know for me having a goal or multiple goals that I want but am not committed enough at the moment to follow takes the joy out of training, because I know I am not doing what really needs to be done to chase any of them. I have to recognize those times and do what makes me enjoy the gym the most just to keep moving in the right direction. Then I start having fun working out again.

Anyway, my point is I would love to see that you are enjoying yourself in the gym again when I read your posts. Rather than you feeling like you are fighting an uphill battle which is the impression I get lately.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Sounds to me like a completely productive workout. You don't have a specific fitness goal right now so everything was great for a general fitness focus with hypertrophy rep range work. You found a machine you like and did some stuff you have been dreading to do which is a bigger deal than you are allowing it to be. The hardest stuff is the stuff that makes you uncomfortable, you chose that path, that is not unproductive it is one of the more productive things you could do after the way your session started. I say great pivot and stop beating yourself up.

By the way feel free to tell me to hush, but if you are getting frustrated right now with training, it might be a good time to just go into the gym to have some fun for a while. You don't have a specific goal right now, and you seem upset or at a minimum unimpressed by your performance on a lot of sessions. I think you might enjoy yourself a little more if for a while you just went in and did the lifts you love, chase the pump and not sweat the performance so much for a little while. Just enjoy Bro'ing out on the weights like you did back in the day when you were enjoying just being in the gym. Bottom line if you get somewhere between 3-0RIR you will grow and having variety and fun working out is why you do this thing anyway isn't it? The goal setting and plans of action aren't what made you love lifting, loving lifting made you want to do those things. So maybe let your hair down a little, do some instinctive and fun training until you set a serious goal you are going to need a serious plan for. I just know for me having a goal or multiple goals that I want but am not committed enough at the moment to follow takes the joy out of training, because I know I am not doing what really needs to be done to chase any of them. I have to recognize those times and do what makes me enjoy the gym the most just to keep moving in the right direction. Then I start having fun working out again.

Anyway, my point is I would love to see that you are enjoying yourself in the gym again when I read your posts. Rather than you feeling like you are fighting an uphill battle which is the impression I get lately.

Excellent points. Not even sure what else to say other then that. Thanks. Good call.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Flat DB Press 10x85's, 3 x 7 x 90's
Standing OHP 4 x 8 x 115
Incline Cable Press 3 x 10 x somethings
Overhead Cable Extension 3 x 10 x 30ish
Machine Lateral Raise 3 x 12 x somethings

Meh.

Weight: 225

Flat DB Press 8 x 70's, 4 x 8/8/8/7 x 90's
Standing OHP 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 120
Incline Cable Press 12x35.2, 10x44, 10x44
Skullcrushers 4 x 8/6/6/6 x 60
Machine Lateral Raise 15x40, 12x50, 12x50, 8x50

Small improvements I think in almost everything. Standing OHP is about 10-15 pounds lower then what I was doing a few months ago for roughly the same reps, but it's after flat db Press this go around whereas it was first before...so hard to really compare...I think.

 

[Dustin07]

Small improvements I think in almost everything. Standing OHP is about 10-15 pounds lower then what I was doing a few months ago for roughly the same reps, but it's after flat db Press this go around whereas it was first before...so hard to really compare...I think.

makes sense. I've had good luck doing OHP as a warm-up before bench, but there is always a 100+lb difference in those two lifts for me. If I was to go bench 280+ then try to hit OHP I might not have the gas left in the tank

 

[GreenMachineX]

makes sense. I've had good luck doing OHP as a warm-up before bench, but there is always a 100+lb difference in those two lifts for me. If I was to go bench 280+ then try to hit OHP I might not have the gas left in the tank

Yeah, that's kind of what's happening, but that's why I start with db ohp on my other press day.

 

[Dustin07]

the important thing is pressing and building up them cannonball shoulders no matter which order you do it in or how much weight it is

 

[GreenMachineX]

the important thing is pressing and building up them cannonball shoulders no matter which order you do it in or how much weight it is

W00t. Gonna get rid of this Oompa Loompa build once and for all.

 

[MrKleen73]

W00t. Gonna get rid of this Oompa Loompa build once and for all.

I don't know this one is pretty jacked.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Squat 3x225, 3x275, 2 x 2 x 315
Neutral Grip Pull Up 4, 4, 3, 3, 3, 1
DB Row 2 x 10 x 50 (+1 set left arm only)
Machine Shrugs 3 x 8 x 140
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10 x 30
Incline DB Curl 3 x 8 x 25's

Squat 5x225, 5x245, 5x265, 5x285
Neutral Grip Pullup 4, 4, 4, 3, 3
DB Row 2 x 8 x 40 (+1 set left arm only)
Machine Shrugs 8x135, 8x170, 8x170
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 12/10/12 x 30
Incline DB Curl 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 25's


Really trying to fix this left arm. It's very far behind the right in size and strength, and it's extremely hard to activate the lat, such the super weak rows. Otherwise, good workout.

 

[MrKleen73]

Nice Session! I built my left arm back up after the surgery by doing the same thing. I started on the left side so I could just match reps on my strong side, then I did an extra set on the left on each movement. I was caught up within about 6 months.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Nice Session! I built my left arm back up after the surgery by doing the same thing. I started on the left side so I could just match reps on my strong side, then I did an extra set on the left on each movement. I was caught up within about 6 months.

Excellent. Glad to hear it. Wait, your fully caught up and recovered now???

 

[MrKleen73]

Excellent. Glad to hear it. Wait, your fully caught up and recovered now???

Yes Sir, my left arm is now back to being a little bigger than my right arm. I am left handed so it has always been a little bigger. Actually my left is now my strong side again, and I have to start with my right side now due to having a partially subluxed biceps tendon on that side. I don't have the same stability or control on my right side, but it isn't hurting development much as visible in those pics i had in my thread from last week.

 

[Dustin07]

Really trying to fix this left arm. It's very far behind the right in size and strength, and it's extremely hard to activate the lat, such the super weak rows. Otherwise, good workout.

a lifetime of choking the chicken with one hand will do that. you gotta mix it up some, son.

 

[GreenMachineX]

a lifetime of choking the chicken with one hand will do that. you gotta mix it up some, son.

Nofap ser.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 224.6

Seated DB OHP 4 x 8 x 75's
Dips 3 x 10/10/11 x BW
Upright Row 3 x 12/12/11 x 50
Incline Cable Press 3 x 12 x 35.2
Skullcrushers 3 x 12/11/8 x 50

Some things improving, but that could just be from overeating and maxing out glycogen storage. Sleep has taken a turn for the worse again, and the only major difference is increased fruit and vegetable consumption. Ridiculous.

Seated DB OHP 4 x 10/10/10/7 x 75's
Dips 10x BW-110, 3 x 10 x BW
Upright Row 3 x 10/10/9 (+1 cheat rep) x 60
Left Arm Only Lateral Raise 1 x 10 x 10
Overhead Cable Extension 3 X 9/8/8 x 36 (I think)

Chest was still sore from Monday, but I did my Dips anyway. Nice improvement on DB OHP and Upright row. Seems like I really need at least 200 carbs per day for progression.

 

[MrKleen73]

Doh posted up a response in wrong thread.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Doh posted up a response in wrong thread.

I was all excited someone was talking to me...what a letdown

 

[MrKleen73]

I was all excited someone was talking to me...what a letdown

Haha, well if your actually targeting around 2500 calories then the 200p, 250c, and 75-80f would work for you but I think your calories are higher than this aren't they?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Haha, well if your actually targeting around 2500 calories then the 200p, 250c, and 75-80f would work for you but I think your calories are higher than this aren't they?

Yeah, my kcal are probably about 3000k. Gaining weight back too quickly lol. I just can't commit to not sleeping and feeling like trash for an 8 week cut.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah, my kcal are probably about 3000k. Gaining weight back too quickly lol. I just can't commit to not sleeping and feeling like trash for an 8 week cut.

If you are maintaining/gaining you can probably take 20-30g protein off of that to save some calories. And/or I’d pull fat out to get the cals closer to 2500. At 2500 calories there’s no reason you can’t routinely make 200g carbs work. Just don’t use super fast/zero satiety carbs like sugar.

 

[Dustin07]

3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.

 

[GreenMachineX]

3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.

Agreed. It's too much, but I'm also guessing it's 3k. I know it's at least 2400 kcal based on previous calculations, and just eating more overall (kids leftover chicken/rice they didn't finish), or an extra piece of Naan, extra rice at dinner, etc. I was seeing what happened if I ate enough to keep glycogen full, training hard and not be too over maintenance. Still feel like crap the first half of every day. Sleeping decent though. Weighed 224 the past 3 days so it must be right around maintenance.

Edit: debating how hard to work today in the gym though since my legs and biceps are still sore. Lats are only mildly sore, but was supposed to do rack pulls, leg press, lat stuff and curls.

 

[GreenMachineX]

3k cals seems high for a guy our age who's running natty and having sessions in the 1hr window without added cardio. The only times I've been at 3k cals or higher were intentionally gaining weight or doing 2hr+ sessions nearly daily training for comps.

I've been a great responder personally to getting an extra 50-70g of carbs via rice preWO (like 60-90minutes prior). I think the past year I averaged around 200g carbs at most per day and put on like 15lbs plus PR'd all three lifts many times. but I was intentionally gaining weight and I thought you were looking to drop a few lbs.

Also should mention, all the TDEE things I've done like Bodpod, some breathing metabolic test among others has me around 2800-3000kcal for maintenance.

Also, anything over 50g rice at one time pre workout makes me super sluggish. Unsure why rice only does this. This is parboiled long grain rice also.

 

[Resolve10]

I mean you already have plenty of time doing this so you know if you are at maintenance or when to add or subtract based on current intakes if you aren't going the direction you want. Even by super generic calculations you aren't far off anyways (13 x 225 = 2925).

 

[GreenMachineX]

I mean you already have plenty of time doing this so you know if you are at maintenance or when to add or subtract based on current intakes if you aren't going the direction you want. Even by super generic calculations you aren't far off anyways (13 x 225 = 2925).

Yeah, but when things go off the rails, I start doubting everything I "know".

 

[GreenMachineX]

Deloadish Workout

Rack Pull
Leg Press
Neutral Grip Pullup
Mid-Row Machine
Cable Pull Aparts
Machine Shrugs

 

[Resolve10]

Yeah, but when things go off the rails, I start doubting everything I "know".

Ya I understand that doubt is definitely tough to deal with.

 

[Dustin07]

Yeah, but when things go off the rails, I start doubting everything I "know".

Ya I understand that doubt is definitely tough to deal with.

that's why I love having these logs. if I'm plateauing on strength and that's my goal... go back to see last time I was hitting PRs and figure out if I'm doing something different. If I'm plateauing on a cut and that's my goal.... go back to "X" date in time when I was hitting good progress and see what was different in the training back then vs now (which inevitable the answer is always cardio, lol)

 

[Hyde]

that's why I love having these logs. if I'm plateauing on strength and that's my goal... go back to see last time I was hitting PRs and figure out if I'm doing something different. If I'm plateauing on a cut and that's my goal.... go back to "X" date in time when I was hitting good progress and see what was different in the training back then vs now (which inevitable the answer is always cardio, lol)

This is getting kinda deep, but if you really want to decide if what you were doing then when you PR’d has merits now, also try to look at what you were doing leading up to that block.

Say I hit a bench PR when my 2-board closegrip was seeing PRs in every rep range. BUT that partially happened because of the JM Presses I had taken to new bests in the 6 weeks prior to that. There were training layers in place to produce that benchpress PR.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Weight: 225

Flat DB Press 8 x 70's, 4 x 8/8/8/7 x 90's
Standing OHP 4 x 8/8/8/6 x 120
Incline Cable Press 12x35.2, 10x44, 10x44
Skullcrushers 4 x 8/6/6/6 x 60
Machine Lateral Raise 15x40, 12x50, 12x50, 8x50

Small improvements I think in almost everything. Standing OHP is about 10-15 pounds lower then what I was doing a few months ago for roughly the same reps, but it's after flat db Press this go around whereas it was first before...so hard to really compare...I think.

Weight: 227.2

Flat DB Press 4 x 10/9/8/8 x 90's
Standing OHP 4 x 10/8/8/8 x 115
Machine Delt Raise 4 x 10/10/10/12 x 50
Incline Cable Press 3 x 12/12/15 x 35.2
1 Arm Triceps Pressdowns 3 x 10 x 16.5
Left Arm Only Lateral Raise 1 x 15 x dropset

 

[Hyde]

Weight: 227.2

Bench must be on the rise!

 

[GreenMachineX]

View attachment 236014

Bench must be on the rise!

If I wanna bench 315, I gotta weigh 315, amirite?! lulz