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Building Back Up

RDLs allegedly are good for strengthening all of the knee tendons, the way they build the hamstring to better stabilize the knee.
 
Hyde said:
RDLs allegedly are good for strengthening all of the knee tendons, the way they build the hamstring to better stabilize the knee.
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I knew there was a reason I loved these!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Squat 3x225, 3x255, 5x285 (amrap)
BB Row 12x135, 3 x 10 x 145
Facepulls 12x5, 2 x 10, 12 x 10
Incline DB Curls 3 x 10, 8, 8 x 25's

Much better workout than last time I did this. Actually able to work squats and rows effectively. I think that last set of Squat was 1 rir, maybe 0 though. Eating extra carbs today to hopefully compensate. I think the Facepulls are a waste of time for me...can't really feel what's supposed to be working, but with my persistent shoulder issues I feel like I should be doing them. I don't know.

@Dustin07 did I catch your Squat yet?!
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Squat 1x305, 1x325, 1x335 (current PR)
BB Row 8x135, 8x155, 2x6x165
Facepulls 12x7.5, 10x12, 8x17.5
DB Curl 10x30's, 8x30's, 6x30's

The last time I maxed on Squat a few months ago, I did 2x315, so I think I've gone up. I also did it without any safeties so didn't feel safe at all in case I failed. Probably could've done 345.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Day 1: Standing OHP, Pullup, Shrugs, Lateral Raise, Skullcrushers (maybe curls)

Day 2: CG Bench, DL, Machine OHP, Reverse Flies, Curls

Day 3: Flat Bench, Incline CG Hammer Press, Upright Row, Pressdowns

Day 4: Squat, BB row, Shrugs, Facepulls, Curls

4 sets for first 2 or 3 exercises, 3 sets for everything else. Only days 3 and 4 are ever back to back at this point.
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Update...got a new job starting soon and will need to go to the office to train for it for a couple weeks. Will likely edit my workout plan a little too make it all push on one day and pull the other, except the pull workout will include DL or squat. Something like this:

Day 1: Flat Bench, incline CG Hammer Press, Upright Row, Skullcrushers

Day 2: Squat, BB Row, Shrug, Facepulls, Curls

Day 3: Standing OHP, CG Bench, Lateral Raise, Triceps Extension

Day 4: DL, Pullup, Reverse Flies, Shrugs, Curls

This will allow me to workout several days in a row if i need to, then take off a few in a row if needed as well, whereas what I'm doing now feels too rigid.

But, should I add the Machine OHP to Day 1 Or 3?
 
I see plenty of stimulation for front delts. Maybe add in side raises since you said you felt medial delts need improvement.
 
I would do the training plan as written and you will know where it should go when you get there. I tend to program too much, and often find the first go-thru was overly ambitious.

Resolve10 said:
Ya there is research on it increasing stability of the knee and lowering injury risk (hamstring training).

Nordics are a staple for many European Soccer Clubs in there training and even in their youth development programs to help lower risk of ACL injuries (and really big for hamstring strain reductions). Big fan of even just working the negative on some Nordics if that is all you can start with and/or things like Glute Ham Raises as well.
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I definitely feel better/safer when I do a little bit of GHR, reverse hypers or leg curls before squatting or pulling.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Squat 1x305, 1x325, 1x335 (current PR)
BB Row 8x135, 8x155, 2x6x165
Facepulls 12x7.5, 10x12, 8x17.5
DB Curl 10x30's, 8x30's, 6x30's

The last time I maxed on Squat a few months ago, I did 2x315, so I think I've gone up. I also did it without any safeties so didn't feel safe at all in case I failed. Probably could've done 345.
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PEM got me good after this workout. Ugh.
 
From the outside looking in it doesn't seem to matter a ton what you are doing, you get the PEM when it happens. I have seen you push some of your PR's on very CNS challenging lifts with no PEM, and some pretty reasonable sessions where you get PEM. However, it seems your bouts of PEM are actually getting a little more spread out. If you aren't already, I would start tracking the days you get PEM on a calendar and just watch the frequency because it sure seems the frequency is lower from the outside looking in. Maybe you are gradually improving as you push through via normal adaptation processes.
 
MrKleen73 said:
From the outside looking in it doesn't seem to matter a ton what you are doing, you get the PEM when it happens. I have seen you push some of your PR's on very CNS challenging lifts with no PEM, and some pretty reasonable sessions where you get PEM. However, it seems your bouts of PEM are actually getting a little more spread out. If you aren't already, I would start tracking the days you get PEM on a calendar and just watch the frequency because it sure seems the frequency is lower from the outside looking in. Maybe you are gradually improving as you push through via normal adaptation processes.
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Yeah, unless there's a variable I'm missing. I don't know. Kind of getting to the point of "this is just my life now", but that feels defeating also. Good call on the calendar idea. I was doing that back in January along with detailed notes about every variable, but I've slowed down a lot with that. I'll start tracking again.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yeah, unless there's a variable I'm missing. I don't know. Kind of getting to the point of "this is just my life now", but that feels defeating also. Good call on the calendar idea. I was doing that back in January along with detailed notes about every variable, but I've slowed down a lot with that. I'll start tracking again.
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I wouldn't bother tracking the rest too much more, so you don't get back in your head about it and cause more stress. Getting it out of your head has been a big part of your recent progress in my opinion. However tracking them PEM will give you an idea of if it is increasing frequency, lessening, or maintaining.
 
Forgot to mention, had blood drawn today for basically everything...

Testosterone, estrogen, thyroid, b12, iron/ferritin, cbc, cmp. Looking forward to results.
 
Weight: 221

Standing OHP 4 x 6 x 140
Neutral Grip Pullup 5, 4, 3, 2 ,1
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 12 x 15's
Skullcrushers 3 x 10 x 50
BB Shrugs 3 x 8 x 165
DB Curls 10 x 30's

I'm just not awake for these Saturday morning OHP workouts, but by the time I hit pull ups, I'm all in. Might need to revamp this somehow.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 221

Standing OHP 4 x 6 x 140
Neutral Grip Pullup 5, 4, 3, 2 ,1
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 12 x 15's
Skullcrushers 3 x 10 x 50
BB Shrugs 3 x 8 x 165
DB Curls 10 x 30's

I'm just not awake for these Saturday morning OHP workouts, but by the time I hit pull ups, I'm all in. Might need to revamp this somehow.
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Have you given any thought to doing seated shoulder press? It could leave a little more in your tank for the rest of the session and leave additional recovery for improvement in your squats and deads. The back and hips are taxed a lot more in stabilizing an overhead press than most people think plus it is more costly to the CNS than seated.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Have you given any thought to doing seated shoulder press? It could leave a little more in your tank for the rest of the session and leave additional recovery for improvement in your squats and deads. The back and hips are taxed a lot more in stabilizing an overhead press than most people think plus it is more costly to the CNS than seated.
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I think I misspoke...I meant I'm fully awake by the second exercise, but not during OHP so I'm not getting a good OHP workout, but everything else after is great.

Otherwise, i just really enjoy standing OHP; it gives me some sense of pride that I can lift do it lol
 
GreenMachineX said:
I think I misspoke...I meant I'm fully awake by the second exercise, but not during OHP so I'm not getting a good OHP workout, but everything else after is great.

Otherwise, i just really enjoy standing OHP; it gives me some sense of pride that I can lift do it lol
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Oh no, I understood what you meant, was just thinking out loud because I see you do OHP a lot and it is pretty taxing. So if you were looking for spare recovery and a way to push your shoulders a little harder seated would fit the bill. I love standing OHP too! The PEM thing is such a puzzle, I just find myself trying to figure out anything that might help you navigate it when I come in here. I would hate to deal with something like that and don't envy you at all.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Oh no, I understood what you meant, was just thinking out loud because I see you do OHP a lot and it is pretty taxing. So if you were looking for spare recovery and a way to push your shoulders a little harder seated would fit the bill. I love standing OHP too! The PEM thing is such a puzzle, I just find myself trying to figure out anything that might help you navigate it when I come in here. I would hate to deal with something like that and don't envy you at all.
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Oh ok, I appreciate it. Your right, seated would be far less taxing... but standing is just too fun lol.

Yeah, the PEM thing is strange, especially because I don't have the rest of the CFS symptoms. I appreciate the effort in trying to figure this out though...any thoughts always welcome.

I feel great today. Reminiscent if how I felt years ago...my sense of smell works, normal amount of energy, music sounds good, ZERO irritability. Enjoying the day!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Bodyweight: 224

CG Bench 4 x 7, 7, 7, 6 x 155
Deadlift Max 1 x 315, 365, 390, 405, 415, 425
Machine OHP 2 x 10 x 70
Reverse Cable Flies 3 x 10 x 4
Incline DB Curl 3 x 8, 8, 6 x 30's

425 DL PR! At this bodyweight, I think I'm really close to my all time best PR. When I got 475 and 525, I was around 235-245. Either way, this is the most I've done since the 6 month layoff last year. Yay.

Other notes: skipped Inverted row after the max DL because it's still pretty sore from Saturday and figure maxing is enough. Lowered the CG Bench to really focus on form.
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Weight: 220

CG Bench 3 x 12/10/8 x 135
DL Deload 5x135, 5x185, 5x225, 3x275
Reverse Cable Flies 3 x 8 x 7.5
Incline DB Curls 3 x 8 x 30's

The plan was to go lighter on cg bench and deload DL, but I ended up hitting failure on bench anyway so kept dropping the reps per set. Out late at a concert last night and slept terrible on top of it, so whatever.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Yeah, unless there's a variable I'm missing. I don't know. Kind of getting to the point of "this is just my life now", but that feels defeating also. Good call on the calendar idea. I was doing that back in January along with detailed notes about every variable, but I've slowed down a lot with that. I'll start tracking again.
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Maybe?
I mean like Hyde said, a lot of us feel horrible every day lol

9 times out of 10 during the week I'm not feeling it preWO. I really have to go through the routines and discipline because I know that there is a ritual. Gym pants, knee sleeves, lace up the gym shoes with headphones on my head. Look at the mirror through my rose colored glasses one last time before putting a gym shirt that's JUST the right size then walk out to the battlefield to F $hit up!! And if I still feel crappy, by the second set (sorta like you mentioned with OHP > pullups) I'm suddenly coming alive and now I want to see not what I have to do, but what I CAN do. What's this body got in it today?


On the other hand I've had days of soul crushing depression where I did the ritual, and didn't make it 100 yards before turning around and going home.

I just don't experience that anymore and I don't know exactly why. Maybe my hormones are better? Maybe discipline and toughing it out made the bad days not seem so bad anymore?


The one thing in the back of my head though is how amazing I felt on ultra hard, and to a lesser extent dermacrine. That really raises hormone questions for me and I wish I had got a blood panel done.

Life is hard at our age. This is the busiest, most stressed, tired, and stretched thin we will ever be. That deserves some recognition too! These are our toil in the thorns years.
 
Dustin07 said:
Maybe?
I mean like Hyde said, a lot of us feel horrible every day lol

9 times out of 10 during the week I'm not feeling it preWO. I really have to go through the routines and discipline because I know that there is a ritual. Gym pants, knee sleeves, lace up the gym shoes with headphones on my head. Look at the mirror through my rose colored glasses one last time before putting a gym shirt that's JUST the right size then walk out to the battlefield to F $hit up!! And if I still feel crappy, by the second set (sorta like you mentioned with OHP > pullups) I'm suddenly coming alive and now I want to see not what I have to do, but what I CAN do. What's this body got in it today?


On the other hand I've had days of soul crushing depression where I did the ritual, and didn't make it 100 yards before turning around and going home.

I just don't experience that anymore and I don't know exactly why. Maybe my hormones are better? Maybe discipline and toughing it out made the bad days not seem so bad anymore?


The one thing in the back of my head though is how amazing I felt on ultra hard, and to a lesser extent dermacrine. That really raises hormone questions for me and I wish I had got a blood panel done.

Life is hard at our age. This is the busiest, most stressed, tired, and stretched thin we will ever be. That deserves some recognition too! These are our toil in the thorns years.
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Lots of good thoughts here, but the one I'm going to highlight...is the "just the right size" gym shirt 😆 I'm the same way, and even though I have a ton of workout shirts, I do the wash 3x per week and always make sure to throw one specific shirt back in every time 🤣
 
GreenMachineX said:
Flat Bench 4 x 7, 6, 6, 6 x 225
Incline CG Hammer Press 8x90, 3 x 8, 8, 10 x 100
Cable Upright Row 12x42.5, 10x50, 8x57.5
Double Cable Pressdown 3 x 10, 10, 12 x 30.

Slept like garbage and been up since 3:30am again...so feeling quite rough today, but still managed to add a rep to Bench...sloppy form on the last few reps of last set though. I didn't note it up top, but after about 30 seconds from the last set, I did 1 more pretty slow but perfect rep out of stubbornness 😆

Upright Row moving up. Triceps pressdowns still struggling around the same level.

Otherwise, I've taken assessment of my physique deficiencies, and really my side delts and upper traps need the most improvement...maybe biceps too but not as concerned. I'm considering dropping to only 2 latissimus movements per week (excluding DL if that counts) and adding another Shrug movement in the week.

Day 1: Standing OHP, Pullup, Shrugs, Lateral Raise, Skullcrushers (maybe curls)

Day 2: CG Bench, DL, Machine OHP, Reverse Flies, Curls

Day 3: Flat Bench, Incline CG Hammer Press, Upright Row, Pressdowns

Day 4: Squat, BB row, Shrugs, Facepulls, Curls

4 sets for first 2 or 3 exercises, 3 sets for everything else. Only days 3 and 4 are ever back to back at this point.

Anyone have any thoughts?
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Weight: 219

Flat Bench 4 x 6/6/5/3 x 225
Incline CG Hammer Press 4 x 8/8/8/10 x 130
Cable Upright Row 10x47.5, 9x52.5, 8x57.5
Double Cable Pressdown 3 x 8/8/10 x 35


Bad bench session but likely to do with cutting kcal again, although carbs have still been about 200, so I don't know. Had about 75g carbs from rice and 15-20g carbs from berries a few hours earlier, but guess it wasn't enough. Still increased everything else though.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Squat 1x305, 1x325, 1x335 (current PR)
BB Row 8x135, 8x155, 2x6x165
Facepulls 12x7.5, 10x12, 8x17.5
DB Curl 10x30's, 8x30's, 6x30's

The last time I maxed on Squat a few months ago, I did 2x315, so I think I've gone up. I also did it without any safeties so didn't feel safe at all in case I failed. Probably could've done 345.
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Weight: 218.2

Squat 5x95, 5x135, 5x185, 5x205, 5x225
BB Row 10x135, 8x155, 7x165, 7x165
Cable Shrug 8x47.5's, 8x47.5's
Reverse Cable Flies 3x8x7.5's
DB Curls 3x8x30's
Cable External Rotations

Took it pretty easy on squats and paused at the bottom for about a second to really nail in the form. BB Row moving up. Slowly adding in Cable Shrugs. Weight coming down nicely too.

Will be taking about a week off in a couple weeks for vacation which will be nice.
 
seems to be something to that. Dapack had that week off on vacation and came back to PR squats.
I had that week off in Feb (I did lift one day at a local bro gym in Mexico but... you know... 45 minutes of 50% my normal weights) and came back to hit some PRs.... good luck bro!
 
Dustin07 said:
seems to be something to that. Dapack had that week off on vacation and came back to PR squats.
I had that week off in Feb (I did lift one day at a local bro gym in Mexico but... you know... 45 minutes of 50% my normal weights) and came back to hit some PRs.... good luck bro!
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Gotcha. Well, I'll completely run myself into the ground this week first 😆
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 221

Standing OHP 4 x 6 x 140
Neutral Grip Pullup 5, 4, 3, 2 ,1
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 12 x 15's
Skullcrushers 3 x 10 x 50
BB Shrugs 3 x 8 x 165
DB Curls 10 x 30's

I'm just not awake for these Saturday morning OHP workouts, but by the time I hit pull ups, I'm all in. Might need to revamp this somehow.
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Weight: 218.0

Standing OHP 4 x 8/7/7/6 x 135
Neutral Grip Pullup 3, 3, 3, 2
DB Lateral Raise (don't recall)
BB Shrugs 3 x 10 x 155
Skullcrushers 3 x 10 x 50
-superset-
EZ Curls 3 x 8 x 50

OHP still stuck. Slowed everything down to reduce any momentum lifting. Meh.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 218.0

Standing OHP 4 x 8/7/7/6 x 135
Neutral Grip Pullup 3, 3, 3, 2
DB Lateral Raise (don't recall)
BB Shrugs 3 x 10 x 155
Skullcrushers 3 x 10 x 50
-superset-
EZ Curls 3 x 8 x 50

OHP still stuck. Slowed everything down to reduce any momentum lifting. Meh.
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Still moving good weight nothing to be ashamed of!
 
GreenMachineX said:
OHP still stuck. Slowed everything down to reduce any momentum lifting. Meh.
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Many years ago when I focused on OHP more than anything I think I hit an all time best of 205 at 185lb bw. I had read some dude theorize that oly lifters back in the day had more monstrous shoulders because they used steel plates so every lift had an eccentric aspect whereas oly lifters today use bumper plates so when the barbell goes over head, they dump it.

After an OHP working set, I'd move to push press and push jerks to get used to not only throwing more weight over head, but then forcing myself to lower it back down to my shoulders. so if OHP was stuck at say 135 for example, I'd be doing push press at say 155, push jerks maybe 185+ but getting that 185lb eccentric training in.

I also started using micro plates somewhere around 160lbs. I always trained 3s and 5s and if I stalled or felt like I was gonna stall maybe my 160 > 165 move would be more like 160-162lbs but still a PR!
 
Dustin07 said:
Many years ago when I focused on OHP more than anything I think I hit an all time best of 205 at 185lb bw. I had read some dude theorize that oly lifters back in the day had more monstrous shoulders because they used steel plates so every lift had an eccentric aspect whereas oly lifters today use bumper plates so when the barbell goes over head, they dump it.

After an OHP working set, I'd move to push press and push jerks to get used to not only throwing more weight over head, but then forcing myself to lower it back down to my shoulders. so if OHP was stuck at say 135 for example, I'd be doing push press at say 155, push jerks maybe 185+ but getting that 185lb eccentric training in.

I also started using micro plates somewhere around 160lbs. I always trained 3s and 5s and if I stalled or felt like I was gonna stall maybe my 160 > 165 move would be more like 160-162lbs but still a PR!
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Interesting. I'll have to look to see if we have microplates at my gym. Thanks.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Interesting. I'll have to look to see if we have microplates at my gym. Thanks.
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If they have decent metal collars they are often good for a pound each. Obviously not the plastic ones though. I know some others also use magnets to attach to metal plates. Hell for that matter a decent set of adjustable weight wrist weights can help you add up to 5lbs per arm in small increments.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Weight: 220

CG Bench 3 x 12/10/8 x 135
DL Deload 5x135, 5x185, 5x225, 3x275
Reverse Cable Flies 3 x 8 x 7.5
Incline DB Curls 3 x 8 x 30's

The plan was to go lighter on cg bench and deload DL, but I ended up hitting failure on bench anyway so kept dropping the reps per set. Out late at a concert last night and slept terrible on top of it, so whatever.
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DL 5x275, 5x315, 5x360 (amrap)
CG Bench 4 x 10/10/10/8 x 135
DB Farmers Walks 2 x 65's about 30 seconds
Reverse Pec Deck 3 x 10
Incline DB Curls

I based my 5/3/1 5's week on my new max, not my 90% training max, and could only get 5 at the top set. Hit the goal I guess, but nothing extra. Adding in farmers for trap and forearm work, and because I just like it. Very disappointed how weak I've got there. At one point, I was carrying 250lb in each hand for 50-100ft 😢

Back to farmers walks for a second, my Lateral delts were more pumped from that than Lateral Raise 😆
 
MrKleen73 said:
If they have decent metal collars they are often good for a pound each. Obviously not the plastic ones though. I know some others also use magnets to attach to metal plates. Hell for that matter a decent set of adjustable weight wrist weights can help you add up to 5lbs per arm in small increments.
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Nah, they only have the plastic ones. I just need to man up and get stronger lol
 
GreenMachineX said:
Nah, they only have the plastic ones. I just need to man up and get stronger lol
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Fair enough, but increasing weight incrementally is one of the best ways to get stronger. Unless you just intend to try to add reps instead of progressing via increasing load. You get a couple extra reps then you should be able to add a little weight to things.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Fair enough, but increasing weight incrementally is one of the best ways to get stronger. Unless you just intend to try to add reps instead of progressing via increasing load. You get a couple extra reps then you should be able to add a little weight to things.
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I know, I just don't want to buy anything else lol. I agree though with what you're saying.
 
Got the PEM hard-core today, and up since 4 for no reason. Guessing that amrap DL was too much. Carbs and kcal were very close to maintenance, if not slightly above, so doubt that's a factor.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I know, I just don't want to buy anything else lol. I agree though with what you're saying.
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Yeah, that is totally understandable.
GreenMachineX said:
Got the PEM hard-core today, and up since 4 for no reason. Guessing that amrap DL was too much. Carbs and kcal were very close to maintenance, if not slightly above, so doubt that's a factor.
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Hate to hear that. Hopefully it doesn't stick around too long.
 
without buying anything else I'd definitely give Kleen's high rep approach a try or if you wanted to spend just a few bucks, bands might also be a solution... banded from the bottom...

oh but also the push press and push jerk... another way to overload the OHP without any additional gear....
 
Dustin07 said:
without buying anything else I'd definitely give Kleen's high rep approach a try or if you wanted to spend just a few bucks, bands might also be a solution... banded from the bottom...

oh but also the push press and push jerk... another way to overload the OHP without any additional gear....
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If he really wants his shoulder press to come up he probably needs to back off a little on something else to give extra resources to his priority. Right now he is pushing his bench pretty hard which is going to get in the way of his overhead if that is his priority. Once you get to a certain level you have to start specializing in what your goals are. Once you have a lot of muscle you should start to specialize in what you are trying to improve most, then rotate to something else if you want to try to keep everything moving at different periods. You just have to manage resources better once you get to a certain level.
 
MrKleen73 said:
If he really wants his shoulder press to come up he probably needs to back off a little on something else to give extra resources to his priority. Right now he is pushing his bench pretty hard which is going to get in the way of his overhead if that is his priority. Once you get to a certain level you have to start specializing in what your goals are. Once you have a lot of muscle you should start to specialize in what you are trying to improve most, then rotate to something else if you want to try to keep everything moving at different periods. You just have to manage resources better once you get to a certain level.
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Great points. I need to think about what's more important I guess...hmmm.
 
Question for you guys...

My daughter hurt her shoulder during pushups, on Monday, and it hurt to lift it afterwards. The pain is improving daily, but she says it's cracking and popping still when she lifts it. If this was someone my age, I'd say go get it checked out, but my daughter is 12 and it was pushups so It's hard for me to think it's something that serious. Any thoughts?
 
in my experience 9 out of 10 shoulder injuries are blown way out of proportion but the 10th one is pretty serious lol.
I'd just have her do normal PT type stuff, starting with rotator cuff rehab movements.
most of those movements are generally the same as doing a snatch which is why I like to warm up with a barbell snatch (empty ) before benching or OHP.

Rest n Stretch
 
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