Building Back Up

did not expect to return after the long weekend to a rousing discussion of Dixie Cups lol
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although I really thought most associated them with drinking games. maybe that's the redneck in me.

GreenMachineX said:
That amrap DL wrecked me. After each of the next sets of Inverted Row and reverse flies, I felt a bit nauseated, so I just didn't do my last set of reverse flies. Kind of shaky too. Ugh. This is one of those things...should I just man up and finished the sets hard even feeling a little nauseated and shaky, or stopped as soon as I felt that?
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Do you stay well hydrated and fed pre-workout?
When I was 16 I'd hit the gym with my dad before work (like 5am). he'd go to the office, I'd drive home to shower for school. many times I pulled over on the side of the road to puke on my way home. Overtime I found that hydration played the biggest role for me (or lack thereof) and back then I'd have a banana pre-workout as well which also seemed to help.
 
Dustin07 said:
did not expect to return after the long weekend to a rousing discussion of Dixie Cups lol
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although I really thought most associated them with drinking games. maybe that's the redneck in me.



Do you stay well hydrated and fed pre-workout?
When I was 16 I'd hit the gym with my dad before work (like 5am). he'd go to the office, I'd drive home to shower for school. many times I pulled over on the side of the road to puke on my way home. Overtime I found that hydration played the biggest role for me (or lack thereof) and back then I'd have a banana pre-workout as well which also seemed to help.
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I’d have to say all drinking games had red solo cups… yes now that song is stuck in my head 😂
 
Dustin07 said:
haha fair enough you're right. dixie cups were the tiny cups we had in 3rd grade for SWISH
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To be fair a styrofoam cup is better for the ice massage since your fingers don't get as cold but trying to think about the environment just a lil bit. :)
 
last time I think I used a Styrofoam cup was when my buddy and I mixed them with gasoline thinking we could make napalm lol
 
Dustin07 said:
last time I think I used a Styrofoam cup was when my buddy and I mixed them with gasoline thinking we could make napalm lol
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I actually saw some in a waiting room the other day and thought to myself... Holy Crap, I haven't seen one of these out in the wild in a bit.
 
Dustin07 said:
did not expect to return after the long weekend to a rousing discussion of Dixie Cups lol
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although I really thought most associated them with drinking games. maybe that's the redneck in me.



Do you stay well hydrated and fed pre-workout?
When I was 16 I'd hit the gym with my dad before work (like 5am). he'd go to the office, I'd drive home to shower for school. many times I pulled over on the side of the road to puke on my way home. Overtime I found that hydration played the biggest role for me (or lack thereof) and back then I'd have a banana pre-workout as well which also seemed to help.
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Yeah, I drink plenty per day, about 3 liters, maybe more to keep my urine light yellow or clear. I usually eat breakfast, then workout about 3 hours later. Always have 50g protein, about 15-20g fat, and 20-50 carbs. Total carb intake could be playing a role here, or at least glycogen status...particularly liver glycogen. But, I need to lose weight, so I gotta drop carbs to a certain degree. On the other hand, even after a weekend of eating trash, Monday workout has caused the PEM also.
 
Could be. that is fairly low, I think my carbs are usually around double to triple that pre-workout.
Best solution for me lately for maintenance has been that one fasting day a week to offset my lifting surplus days personally. But when I switch to a cut I think I'll drop daily calories to maintenance or a tiny bit under + fasting so I'll report back if I puke as well lol
 
Dustin07 said:
Could be. that is fairly low, I think my carbs are usually around double to triple that pre-workout.
Best solution for me lately for maintenance has been that one fasting day a week to offset my lifting surplus days personally. But when I switch to a cut I think I'll drop daily calories to maintenance or a tiny bit under + fasting so I'll report back if I puke as well lol
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Gotcha. Actuality, that day I almost puked, I'm pretty sure I was in neutral caloric balance. Also, I just have a hard time believing carb intake and kcal intake could be causing the PEM at my level of body fat and the kcal I do intake. I'm still eating roughly 2k at least every day, but most of the time 2500. It's one thing I wrestle with. Maybe i just need to try eating 75g carbs pre-workout, then just skim later in the day.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Gotcha. Actuality, that day I almost puked, I'm pretty sure I was in neutral caloric balance. Also, I just have a hard time believing carb intake and kcal intake could be causing the PEM at my level of body fat and the kcal I do intake. I'm still eating roughly 2k at least every day, but most of the time 2500. It's one thing I wrestle with. Maybe i just need to try eating 75g carbs pre-workout, then just skim later in the day.
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It would be better for you composition wise but I kind of doubt it is causing an issue with the PEM from what I read when i researched it, it seemed more CNS stress related than dietary.
 
And you have zero correlation with PEM and weather patterns at home?
I don't get any of what you're experiencing post workout, but a weather change can hit me hard. especially when a heavy cloudy front comes in, hangs very dark and heavy for pro-longed periods. My energy level goes through the roof in Arizona even though I seem to eat half as much.
 
Dustin07 said:
And you have zero correlation with PEM and weather patterns at home?
I don't get any of what you're experiencing post workout, but a weather change can hit me hard. especially when a heavy cloudy front comes in, hangs very dark and heavy for pro-longed periods. My energy level goes through the roof in Arizona even though I seem to eat half as much.
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Yeah, zero correlation. I've had severe PEM on the brightest and best days. Good thought though.
 
Today's WO:

BB Bench 5x215, 5x225, 5x235, 2x240
Incline Cable Press 12x22 5, 12x27.5, 8x37.5
Cable Upright Row 3 x 12, 12, 12 x 42.5
Overhead Cable Extensions 3 x 12, 8, 8 x 30

5x235 for bench! I may have gotten 3 or 4 of 240, but I lost my nerve and didn't trust that I had the safety bars set correctly. I checked afterward with just the bar and should've been fine. Anxiety creeps in still occasionally. Everything moving up still.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Today's WO:

BB Bench 5x215, 5x225, 5x235, 2x240
Incline Cable Press 12x22 5, 12x27.5, 8x37.5
Cable Upright Row 3 x 12, 12, 12 x 42.5
Overhead Cable Extensions 3 x 12, 8, 8 x 30

5x235 for bench! I may have gotten 3 or 4 of 240, but I lost my nerve and didn't trust that I had the safety bars set correctly. I checked afterward with just the bar and should've been fine. Anxiety creeps in still occasionally. Everything moving up still.
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@Dustin07 I'm coming for ya!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Today's WO:

BB Bench 5x215, 5x225, 5x235, 2x240
Incline Cable Press 12x22 5, 12x27.5, 8x37.5
Cable Upright Row 3 x 12, 12, 12 x 42.5
Overhead Cable Extensions 3 x 12, 8, 8 x 30

5x235 for bench! I may have gotten 3 or 4 of 240, but I lost my nerve and didn't trust that I had the safety bars set correctly. I checked afterward with just the bar and should've been fine. Anxiety creeps in still occasionally. Everything moving up still.
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Nice bench! Looks like things are moving along!
I admit I don’t really have any knowledge on PEM, looks like some days it gets you and others not to bad.
 
akboom87 said:
Nice bench! Looks like things are moving along!
I admit I don’t really have any knowledge on PEM, looks like some days it gets you and others not to bad.
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Thank you sir! Yeah, I'm thinking it correlates to squats and deads, so if correct, I think I should be ok tomorrow. Hopefully...
 
akboom87 said:
It would make sense more CNS over load on those lifts. Can’t remember have you ran a de load week recently?
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It's probably been 2 months since I've done an intentional deload. Well, I had covid right before Christmas, took 2 weeks off, then took several weeks to get back up to hard sets.

Its hard to deload when still making progress 😆
 
Dude I dig this. I might have to use your bench numbers today as my motivation tomorrow!!
:devilish::devilish::devilish:

GreenMachineX said:
Anxiety creeps in still occasionally. Everything moving up still.
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When I faced panic attacks I turned on angry rock music to try to wire my brain to fight instead of flight since it essentially felt like an addrenaline rush.

But when I faced anxiety attacks (same age as you at the time, maybe a year younger it was in 2019) I actually found myself having to go the other way and focused on music that relaxed me (usually contemporary Christian) and my movies were much softer watching as well. I can tell you it passed, life is great and I prefer watching shoot-em-up movies again LOL.

Maybe the angry/aggressive was the move in both scenarios but the anxiety attacks occurred when I was running a side business and I was in a position that I needed my customers so I was constantly everyone's bitch to make rent for 12 months.

GreenMachineX said:
Thank you sir! Yeah, I'm thinking it correlates to squats and deads, so if correct, I think I should be ok tomorrow. Hopefully...
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If you think it is the squats and deads why don't you take just one day to run both of them at 50% as a test? it won't set you back in your training to take a single half day to test your recovery. and I don't mean 50% weight x's a million reps either to failure lol.
 
Dustin07 said:
Dude I dig this. I might have to use your bench numbers today as my motivation tomorrow!!
:devilish::devilish::devilish:


If you think it is the squats and deads why don't you take just one day to run both of them at 50% as a test? it won't set you back in your training to take a single half day to test your recovery. and I don't mean 50% weight x's a million reps either to failure lol.
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That or just go with a more linear approach here. Make that final set just another set instead of an AMRAP and try just putting a little more weight on the bar the next time. If CNS related backing off the grinding reps of the AMRAP are likely to make the biggest difference without affecting progress at all unless improving it.
 
MrKleen73 said:
o with a more linear approach here. Make that final set just another set instead of an AMRAP and try just putting a little more weight on the bar the next time. If CNS related backing off the grinding reps of the AMRAP are likely to make the biggest difference without affecting progress at all unless improving it.
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yeah there you go. although looking at the last session:

Close Grip Bench 4 x 8 x 155
Deadlift 5x255, 5x295, 7x335 (amrap)
Inverted Row 7, 7, 7
Reverse Cable Flies 2 x 10, 8 x 5

if you were gonna go that route I'd still for the sake of scientific exploration probably think of dropping that 335 x 3 to ensure that there is a lot of gas still in the tank. 5 is close to the 7 rep amrap. I know for me if 7 is my max, 5 is still pretty darn taxing.

or maybe even just 1 rep the top set idk. lately that has worked wonders for me, squatting to a heavy 1 rep to warm up well past my 5 rep, then backing off. I could not have hit my 5 rep today that I hit if I didn't go +35lbs with singles first then cut back.
 
whatever is going on and whatever happens at the end of the day there has been some serious forward momentum here and I'm glad to see it!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Today's WO:

BB Bench 5x215, 5x225, 5x235, 2x240
Incline Cable Press 12x22 5, 12x27.5, 8x37.5
Cable Upright Row 3 x 12, 12, 12 x 42.5
Overhead Cable Extensions 3 x 12, 8, 8 x 30

5x235 for bench! I may have gotten 3 or 4 of 240, but I lost my nerve and didn't trust that I had the safety bars set correctly. I checked afterward with just the bar and should've been fine. Anxiety creeps in still occasionally. Everything moving up still.
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Nice bench man keep it up!
 
Dustin07 said:
Dude I dig this. I might have to use your bench numbers today as my motivation tomorrow!!
:devilish::devilish::devilish:



When I faced panic attacks I turned on angry rock music to try to wire my brain to fight instead of flight since it essentially felt like an addrenaline rush.

But when I faced anxiety attacks (same age as you at the time, maybe a year younger it was in 2019) I actually found myself having to go the other way and focused on music that relaxed me (usually contemporary Christian) and my movies were much softer watching as well. I can tell you it passed, life is great and I prefer watching shoot-em-up movies again LOL.

Maybe the angry/aggressive was the move in both scenarios but the anxiety attacks occurred when I was running a side business and I was in a position that I needed my customers so I was constantly everyone's bitch to make rent for 12 months.



If you think it is the squats and deads why don't you take just one day to run both of them at 50% as a test? it won't set you back in your training to take a single half day to test your recovery. and I don't mean 50% weight x's a million reps either to failure lol.
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Curious to see how your benching with those numbers goes!

I pretty much only listen to death metal, and while I am Christian, I really dislike Christian contemporary. I get what your saying though. Actually though, I rarely listen to music at all anymore since all this garbage started.

I'm considering keeping my workout easy tomorrow. Even though I'm making progress, I am feeling a bit beat up since every workout something is getting trained that's so a bit sore.
 
Dustin07 said:
Dude I dig this. I might have to use your bench numbers today as my motivation tomorrow!!
:devilish::devilish::devilish:



When I faced panic attacks I turned on angry rock music to try to wire my brain to fight instead of flight since it essentially felt like an addrenaline rush.

But when I faced anxiety attacks (same age as you at the time, maybe a year younger it was in 2019) I actually found myself having to go the other way and focused on music that relaxed me (usually contemporary Christian) and my movies were much softer watching as well. I can tell you it passed, life is great and I prefer watching shoot-em-up movies again LOL.

Maybe the angry/aggressive was the move in both scenarios but the anxiety attacks occurred when I was running a side business and I was in a position that I needed my customers so I was constantly everyone's bitch to make rent for 12 months.



If you think it is the squats and deads why don't you take just one day to run both of them at 50% as a test? it won't set you back in your training to take a single half day to test your recovery. and I don't mean 50% weight x's a million reps either to failure lol.
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With this 50% test, you mean just do a few sets of 5 at 135 and stop?

Slept pretty bad last night even with lunesta after that upper push workout. Kcal and carbs were pretty low yesterday, so that may indeed play a role in the whole thing. I'm lying here at 5am actually hungry which never happens.

If i workout, I'll keep squats light, bb rows medium, and hit rear delts and bis hard. Otherwise, considering taking off until Saturday (except hill walking). Still sore from that DL AMRAP Monday.
 
20 minute walk with 5.0 incline.

Squats 3 x 5 x 135
Cable Row 2 x 8 x 75
Reverse Cable Fly 1 x 10 x 7.5
DB Curl 3 x 12, 10, 8 x 20's

Deload workout. Squats were obviously very light. Rows were light enough but still got a pump. The reverse flies were working my Lateral delts too much from yesterday so I stopped. Curls weren't easy 😆
 
GreenMachineX said:
20 minute walk with 5.0 incline.

Squats 3 x 5 x 135
Cable Row 2 x 8 x 75
Reverse Cable Fly 1 x 10 x 7.5
DB Curl 3 x 12, 10, 8 x 20's

Deload workout. Squats were obviously very light. Rows were light enough but still got a pump. The reverse flies were working my Lateral delts too much from yesterday so I stopped. Curls weren't easy 😆
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Be interesting to see how you feel tomorrow!
 
GreenMachineX said:
Standing OHP 4 x 8, 8, 8, 7 x 125
Pullup 4 x 4 x BW
Parallel Depth Push up 8, 8, 12
DB Lateral Raise 15x15's, 2 x 8 , 17.5's, last set dropset to 8x5's
BB Shrugs 12x135, 3 x 6 x 185
Planks

Great workout. Carbed up so a little extra strong but made pull ups harder.

Then something awesome happened...my daughter's lacrosse games got canceled, so I checked on her to see if she was OK (since this was her first games and really looking forward to it). She said "eh, I'm disappointed, but I do want to workout anyway." She's been doing various bodyweight exercises for a couple years and some stuff like overhead carries and tire flips, but today we went over back squats, bench press and Shandon ohp. She NAILED the form on all of it first set.

To make it all even better, while she was warming up, she grabbed my phone and said, "I'm gonna put on some heavy metal." :cool:

Proud dad day.
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Standing OHP 4 x 8, 7, 6, 6 x 130
OH Pullup 4, 3, 3
Neutral Grip Pullup 5, 4
DB Lateral Raise 4 x 8 x 17.5
BB Shrug 3 x 8 x 145

OHP moving up nicely. Lat raise coming up too. 16 working sets and I feel like I have so much more. I'm so used to only working out on days with deads and squats that this is a weird feeling.

Otherwise, my daughter's workout:

Back Squats 3 x 12 x 25
Pushups 3 x 7
Bench Press 3 x 10 x 35
Standing OHP 3 x 10 x 25
Bentover Row 3 x 8 x 25
Assisted Pullup 2, 2, 2
EZ Curls 3 x 10 x 25

Had her just using the EZ Curl bar for everything, so not too hard, but by the last set she was feeling it near the last few reps. We'll slowly keep adding reps and weight. She LOVES it now. Melts my heart❤️
 
Interesting day. Sunburnt at my son's lacrosse game, fell through my foldable chair, and choked on a little rice still feels like it's stuck in there. Something similar happened last year (stuck in throat thing), and ended up being nothing. Hoping i wake up tomorrow and it's gone but it feels more *real* this time. Might just be imagining it again.
 
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Awesome on the workout with the daughter and her loving it! Sounds like a heck of a day hopefully you feel fine tomorrow.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Interesting day. Sunburnt at my son's lacrosse game, fell through my foldable chair, and choked on a little rice still feels like it's stuck in there. Something similar happened last year (stuck in throat thing), and ended up being nothing. Hoping i wake up tomorrow but it feels more *real* this time. Might just be imagining it again.
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Maybe the choking sensation is a dream and you’re actually still stuck in the foldable chair at the game in the blazing sun
 
Hyde said:
Maybe the choking sensation is a dream and you’re actually still stuck in the foldable chair at the game in the blazing sun
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Lol

The feeling comes and goes... guessing it's not actually anything there. Got some PEM and slept horrible last night.
 
I forgot to also add I pulled a muscle in my back, right under my right shoulder blade...the kind that kind of takes your breath away when you move just right. Great weekend lol 😆

I will likely deload deads tomorrow... gotta be best.

Any good tips for sunburn, by the way?
 
GreenMachineX said:
I forgot to also add I pulled a muscle in my back, right under my right shoulder blade...the kind that kind of takes your breath away when you move just right. Great weekend lol 😆

I will likely deload deads tomorrow... gotta be best.

Any good tips for sunburn, by the way?
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Bummer about the pulled muscle! As far as sunburn goes, I don’t know if it’s the best thing. My wife always has cerave (spelling?) moisture cream, I use the **** out of that on my sunburns. Seems to keep me from peeling or hurting to bad. I used to get a lot of welder burn back in the day too stuff always did the trick.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Interesting day. Sunburnt at my son's lacrosse game, fell through my foldable chair, and choked on a little rice still feels like it's stuck in there. Something similar happened last year (stuck in throat thing), and ended up being nothing. Hoping i wake up tomorrow but it feels more *real* this time. Might just be imagining it again.
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You're the only person I know who's hypochondria rivals my own 😅😅
I see you woke up again though, congrats on that! 😅

GreenMachineX said:
Any good tips for sunburn, by the way?
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aloe of course is always the common go to, but I'm so sold on bag balm for most skin ailments you might give that a try.

GreenMachineX said:
Gentz,
On a deload week, do you still hit the accessories hard, or scale those back too?
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personally, I would scale everything back.
I have seen no difference, personally, in a deload week where I drop all weight/volume by 50% and a deload week where i simply do not even touch a barbell for a week. in fact< I think my best deload is essentially taking a full week off with the exception of one full body barbell day that is around 50-70% of my normal training weight.
 
Dustin07 said:
You're the only person I know who's hypochondria rivals my own 😅😅
I see you woke up again though, congrats on that! 😅



aloe of course is always the common go to, but I'm so sold on bag balm for most skin ailments you might give that a try.



personally, I would scale everything back.
I have seen no difference, personally, in a deload week where I drop all weight/volume by 50% and a deload week where i simply do not even touch a barbell for a week. in fact< I think my best deload is essentially taking a full week off with the exception of one full body barbell day that is around 50-70% of my normal training weight.
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Lol yeah man...my hypochondria is out of this world sometimes. But, I actually meant to say "wake up tomorrow and it's gone". Health anxiety makes me crazy sometimes.

Ughhhh... I'm in a funny place where I'm finally getting good results, so I'm not ready for a deload, but my body is likely ready for a deload 😆
 
I can relate to all of this lol. You have seen me constantly ask the guys about my own stuff.
I fully subscribe to the idea that we "under recover" more than we "over train" but I also think there is a lot less risk of negative consequences to a light day or week vs trashing our body with RPE10 style lifting at a time that we can only even pull 80% because we're so worn out.

that's just me but after 2 decades of hammering my body I've never gone on a week long vacation and then returned to the gym suddenly weaker. I always think I'm going to, but typically lately I come home from a break and hit a new PR.
 
Dustin07 said:
I can relate to all of this lol. You have seen me constantly ask the guys about my own stuff.
I fully subscribe to the idea that we "under recover" more than we "over train" but I also think there is a lot less risk of negative consequences to a light day or week vs trashing our body with RPE10 style lifting at a time that we can only even pull 80% because we're so worn out.

that's just me but after 2 decades of hammering my body I've never gone on a week long vacation and then returned to the gym suddenly weaker. I always think I'm going to, but typically lately I come home from a break and hit a new PR.
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Right on. Well, I'll consider backing off a little today...maybe. DL will definitely be lighter, but close grip bench, reverse flies and curls might still be RPE8-9.

Probably skipping inverted row though. Back feels pretty rough overall including the pulled muscle.
 
GreenMachineX said:
Right on. Well, I'll consider backing off a little today...maybe. DL will definitely be lighter, but close grip bench, reverse flies and curls might still be RPE8-9.

Probably skipping inverted row though. Back feels pretty rough overall including the pulled muscle.
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Judging on what you said you pulled I would definitely do DL way lighter if at all and maybe switch to dips for triceps and push the rest. DL, and proper pressing form both heavily involve that area. Retracting and pinning those scaps back to create the platform to lift off of is more demanding than you might think.

Other than that @Dustin07 gave some great options for deloading. Dropping volume substantially and not approaching anything over an RPE7 is a good rule of thumb too.
 
I wouldn’t pull during your deload. Deadlifting is the biggest neurological cost amongst your training and you just don’t need to do it weekly even when you’re trying to recover. My last deadlift before a meet is about 2 weeks out, and I’ve typically already pulled my biggest deadlift a week or two before that.

Also, cut whatever you don’t want to do, and skip a day of the gym maybe even.
 
Resolve10 said:
This depends on a ton of factors, ranging from goals (hypertrophy, strength, etc), previous work, to personal experiences, etc.

I have a few ways I'll "deload" depending on the situation, but most often I just decrease volume and hardly ever cut out exercises.
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I hadn't really thought about the fact that not everyone goes to the gym with the same goal in mind.
I mean if I was just cutting I probably wouldn't worry too much about my deload, which might be why I spent so many years hammering my body without enough "deload" if my main goal was to get lean.
but since lately everyone around here is very strength focused deloads or some sort of energy sparing adjustment become more relevant.
 
Dustin07 said:
I hadn't really thought about the fact that not everyone goes to the gym with the same goal in mind.
I mean if I was just cutting I probably wouldn't worry too much about my deload, which might be why I spent so many years hammering my body without enough "deload" if my main goal was to get lean.
but since lately everyone around here is very strength focused deloads or some sort of energy sparing adjustment become more relevant.
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Yeah, it has more to do with what needs the recovery. Right now my CNS is geared up and ready to crush heavy weights but my connective tissues were taking a beating. So rather than a true deload I took a couple days off the other week then came back in pushing volume with some good intensity but changed the execution of the lifts to focus on muscular tension to let the connective tissue begin some recovery.

For @GreenMachineX I would definitely lower both intensity and volume just as a management strategy for the PEM issues. Plus with the pull in the back limit things that make me force that area into a maximum effort isometric contraction in order to brace against the effort.
 
Deload workout:

Skipped Deadlifts 😒

Close grip Bench 3 x 8 x 95
Inverted Row 2 x 4
Reverse Cable Flies 2 x 8 x 2.5
EZ Curls 2 x 6 x 50

The inverted row was harder then I planned, so I stopped at 2 sets...meant to do 3 but for a deload, probably fine. Still feel some soreness from the pull-ups Saturday anyway.

Now i just need to deload for Wed and Thurs workouts also...
 
GreenMachineX said:
Deload workout:

Skipped Deadlifts 😒

Close grip Bench 3 x 8 x 95
Inverted Row 2 x 4
Reverse Cable Flies 2 x 8 x 2.5
EZ Curls 2 x 6 x 50

The inverted row was harder then I planned, so I stopped at 2 sets...meant to do 3 but for a deload, probably fine. Still feel some soreness from the pull-ups Saturday anyway.

Now i just need to deload for Wed and Thurs workouts also...
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Also a de load week can be a great time to do some things you don’t always do. Do some neck work, forearms, calves, biceps etc. I have to mix theses in just to keep thing fun for me and break the normal up.
 
Feel pretty good today after the light workout yesterday. Slept great. Pulled muscle in my back improved greatly. That weird choking thing gone. Probably won't take tomorrow light 😆

But, heading to the doctor for blood in stool. Most likely fissure or something benign since I've had a fissure years ago, but can't risk.
 
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