Dustin07
Legend
It seems like everything is trending the right direction though...
Building Back Up
- Thread starter GreenMachineX
- Start date
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
lol yes, it was a struggle with the 1mL, but a little better with the smaller ones. You’re doing 20mg every day???Ah, I see, I was just curious trying to play it out in my head. I am doing 20mg and it isn't much oil so cutting doses that close seems like it would be a bit difficult to be exact in my head. I would definitely need to dawn my readers to pull that accurately!
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
For sure. I’m definitely pleased with my progress.its more the OCD messing with my head that I didn’t get that final rep lol
Hyde
Legend
You ask that like it’s surprising you to hear someone would use 140mg/wk over daily administrations for TRT
MrKleen73
Legend
Yes Sir, it probably works out to 120mg most weeks and 140mg when I am on top of it. I tend to forget a day every once in a while. I imagine it sounds like a lot to you, but your 56-60mg a week sounds super low to me as well. Kind of wild how we all process it at such different rates.
Yeah, I think I might know of someone else who does this too.You ask that like it’s surprising you to hear someone would use 140mg/wk over daily administrations for TRT
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Well, depends on the goal…TRT or TRT+, right?You ask that like it’s surprising you to hear someone would use 140mg/wk over daily administrations for TRT
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
But, why bother with daily if you can tolerate upper limit levels and sides aren’t an issue? Why not just bolus once or twice per week?You ask that like it’s surprising you to hear someone would use 140mg/wk over daily administrations for TRT
MrKleen73
Legend
No, 140mg a week might be upper end of regular TRT but definitely not TRT+, my doc actually prescribes 150mg a week, and my levels are normally in a high normal range when i do my TRT bloodwork.
You avoid the troughs, get less aromatization to estrogen, and levels are just far more steady. It is just more optimal if you don't mind the extra shots. Sometimes I do get tired of the daily shots, but I definitely prefer the stability. I noticed moodiness and increased aggression on occasion after the bolus shots as well and I prefer to avoid that.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
How long have you been doing 20mg daily? You’re free T was only upper end of normal on 20mg daily?
Hyde
Legend
TRT is what puts you into physiological testosterone ranges, and ideally also has you feeling relatively good/vital. TRT+ would be doses putting in excess of top of range for total t, and/or adding hormones besides testosterone or the neurosteroids DHEA & Pregnenolone.
140mg is an extremely common TRT dose. Anything 100-200 is very normal to see prescribed. And the idea that the milligram of dosage is directly correlated to X blood level for most is naive (or that people would even feel the same at similar blood levels, for that matter). People metabolize drugs differently for many different reasons. 300/wk with daily dosing puts me at 1,500ng/dl - the 140mg I’d been using had me 7-800ng/DL. Perfectly legitimate true TRT. When I first started cruising 5 years ago, I had less muscle - 150/wk over daily shots had me over 1,000ng/dl with l-carnitine.
Daily administration lessens estrogen conversion. The more you aromatize, the more frequently administration will aid minimizing estrogen spikes or the need for AI, as well as keeping SHBG higher & hematocrit lower on same total weekly dose (marginally).
So whether physiological range or big doses, it can smooth things out and eliminate the peaks and valleys.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Agreed on all that, except 20mg daily > 140mg once per week…it’s in the studies and anecdotal feedback on other forums. When you dose 21mg daily for a weekly dose totaling 150mg, what’s your free T?
It’s been years, and won’t risk going back to it given how sensitive I am to anything different. But, my dosing response/question/clarification wasn’t based on my experience, it was from what I see on other forums.
Last edited:
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 208.4
Haven’t fully committed, but highly considering a 1RM of squat today since it’s been 2 years at a much lower weight.
Haven’t fully committed, but highly considering a 1RM of squat today since it’s been 2 years at a much lower weight.
Hyde
Legend
So that first part you mentioned about studies is misleading. If you dose daily and draw blood to check total t at trough (right before the next shot), you won’t see as low of a trough because things are so stable - the lowest low is higher. While if you bolus dose weekly and check T at trough, it will be much lower. If you checked 24 hours after the bolus (same interval as the pull at trough for daily administration) it would be much higher.
Daily shots also have a shorter terminal half-life - the drug is metabolized out more effectively. So it never reaches the same peak blood concentrations & actually has less effect on promoting higher muscle mass. It can just be more tolerable for the user, which is especially relevant if lifestyle is a leading factor for TRT use. Said another way, bolus shots are better for bodybuilding, but people should do what they like the most so they can be consistent and feel well.
I never check free t. I also rarely check total - the life of a blast & cruiser is to know hormonal flux. Trying to worry about constants is a bit silly when e2, SHBG, t levels and other androgens are in/out so frequently.
Get after it!!!
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Squat 1RM 395! Let’s go!
Had my daughter take a video of 375 and 395. 375 was clearly exactly parallel, but 395 was iffy. I’ve asked a couple friends who workout (not actual powerlifters but they should know) and they said it was parallel. I’m a little hesitant to claim it would legitimately pass in a meet, but it was close enough to be proud of.
Had my daughter take a video of 375 and 395. 375 was clearly exactly parallel, but 395 was iffy. I’ve asked a couple friends who workout (not actual powerlifters but they should know) and they said it was parallel. I’m a little hesitant to claim it would legitimately pass in a meet, but it was close enough to be proud of.
Shadowblaze
Active member
Great PR bro, good job!
akboom87
Well-known member
Congrats man that is awesome
Hyde
Legend
Congratulations on a big day!
Something we talk about at the barbell club (where everyone competes in powerlifting) is at least being a good “gym lift”. Beyond the strict rules of competition, the heart & soul of powerlifting is just trying to lift heavy as we can. If you are proud of the lift, if it meant a lot to you, it’s important to us. The benches don’t have to be paused, it still counts if someone pulled with straps - it’s the effort that speaks volumes.
The gym owner’s son did his first 405 squat the other month. It was absolutely for sure high, several inches - and I’ve seen him squat to depth well in contest many times. But it was still a big moment after years of work, and it was definitely a good “gym lift”
Something we talk about at the barbell club (where everyone competes in powerlifting) is at least being a good “gym lift”. Beyond the strict rules of competition, the heart & soul of powerlifting is just trying to lift heavy as we can. If you are proud of the lift, if it meant a lot to you, it’s important to us. The benches don’t have to be paused, it still counts if someone pulled with straps - it’s the effort that speaks volumes.
The gym owner’s son did his first 405 squat the other month. It was absolutely for sure high, several inches - and I’ve seen him squat to depth well in contest many times. But it was still a big moment after years of work, and it was definitely a good “gym lift”
Segansational
Well-known member
Nice job Green! As Hyde said, count it.
Re: TRT testing - when actually is the optimal time to test if you wanted to look at levels? Is it an hour or two post-bolus injection? At the midway point between doses, at the end? Basically how do you know what levels you are achieving as I imagine timing will really skew that data.
Re: TRT testing - when actually is the optimal time to test if you wanted to look at levels? Is it an hour or two post-bolus injection? At the midway point between doses, at the end? Basically how do you know what levels you are achieving as I imagine timing will really skew that data.
Hyde
Legend
Typically drawn at bottom/trough levels, right before you would normally administer a shot.
Then you see the lowest low.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Standing OHP 4 x 5/5/5/4 x 150
T-Bar Row 4 x 5/5/5/6 x 120
CG Bench 4 x 5/5/4/4 x 185
Pull-ups 5/4/4
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets
Feeling a little beat up and achy all over despite not being in too much of a deficit and sleeping better then I have for a while. Still did decent on OHP and T-Bar row, but cg bench is down from last week. Next vacation planned June 20th which will include no training for 1 week. Just continue to grind until then, or maybe deload now?
T-Bar Row 4 x 5/5/5/6 x 120
CG Bench 4 x 5/5/4/4 x 185
Pull-ups 5/4/4
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets
Feeling a little beat up and achy all over despite not being in too much of a deficit and sleeping better then I have for a while. Still did decent on OHP and T-Bar row, but cg bench is down from last week. Next vacation planned June 20th which will include no training for 1 week. Just continue to grind until then, or maybe deload now?
Hyde
Legend
If you think you can probably remain productive until then & are not nursing any niggles, I’d keep pushing. If something is hurting or you have seen performance drop/decline for at least 2 weeks in a row (so not a natural ebb/flow where you have an off day or week occasionally), then it’s time to deload now.
Conversely, deloading preemptively can help keep you healthier, but you really are in a spot where if you take a light week now you will be off training after just 2 weeks of spooling up. So it’s not ideal for longterm progression.
Alternate ideas are just take 3-4 light days, not a full week of deload, or deload this week then absolutely overreach for the 2 weeks you have with unsustainable volume/intensity. If I train like an animal for 2 weeks, that’s usually all I need to start to break something
Don’t get hurt, but cranking volume 50% or something on everything can set you up nicely if you can handle life outside the gym as a zombie.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I’ll take off Tuesday and Thursday, I’ll go a bit easier on squats and arms Wednesday. Then Friday/saturday hit it hardish? Then next week trainjng normally until vacay?If you think you can probably remain productive until then & are not nursing any niggles, I’d keep pushing. If something is hurting or you have seen performance drop/decline for at least 2 weeks in a row (so not a natural ebb/flow where you have an off day or week occasionally), then it’s time to deload now.
Conversely, deloading preemptively can help keep you healthier, but you really are in a spot where if you take a light week now you will be off training after just 2 weeks of spooling up. So it’s not ideal for longterm progression.
Alternate ideas are just take 3-4 light days, not a full week of deload, or deload this week then absolutely overreach for the 2 weeks you have with unsustainable volume/intensity. If I train like an animal for 2 weeks, that’s usually all I need to start to break something
Hyde
Legend
Yeah the shorty deload can be a good play here. You have 19 day til no training, so just taking a few easy days to circle the wagons up can be a good play before the last push. Then you have 15 days at this point to go.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Weight: 210.2
Kcal have been above little above maintenance the past couple days but tightening it back up now. All clean food, just too much. I love the performance and gains I’ve been getting, but I really need to buckle down.
Kcal have been above little above maintenance the past couple days but tightening it back up now. All clean food, just too much. I love the performance and gains I’ve been getting, but I really need to buckle down.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Deload squats, back extensions, shrugs, arms today. Nothing worth logging.
Got some more lab work back again.
RBC 6.05 (4.14-5.8)
HGB 18.2 (13.0-17.7)
HCT 54.6 (37.5-51)
So frustrating. Every time I think I’m on a good plan, blood thickens back up. I think I’ve said this before…If I use a TRT dose that allows me to stay in HCT/HBG range, I’m severely prone to anxiety and my BP is mildly elevated (140/80) but I sleep decently well. But if I use a dose that brings my e2 in range and free test in upper half of normal, my BP goes down, my anxiety improves dramatically, but my blood thickens up.
Got some more lab work back again.
RBC 6.05 (4.14-5.8)
HGB 18.2 (13.0-17.7)
HCT 54.6 (37.5-51)
So frustrating. Every time I think I’m on a good plan, blood thickens back up. I think I’ve said this before…If I use a TRT dose that allows me to stay in HCT/HBG range, I’m severely prone to anxiety and my BP is mildly elevated (140/80) but I sleep decently well. But if I use a dose that brings my e2 in range and free test in upper half of normal, my BP goes down, my anxiety improves dramatically, but my blood thickens up.
Hyde
Legend
These are probably my numbers right now, what I live it. I am not red. There are many guys who are red who don’t check their numbers; those guys are the ones who are at real risk. They are like 60 hematocrit.
What’s your ferritin? Start checking that if you don’t, so you understand your iron storage. Even if you don’t want to donate or get phlebotomy, if you have elevated ferritin, taking IP6 can lower absorbed iron and lessen blood building. You also want to limit vitamin c intake to only essential, ideally.
You can also supplement with Naringin to shave a point or two, and take larger doses of Nattokinase if you are worried over clotting. I take 2,000fu and 150mg pine bark extract each morning for cardiovascular health, but some guys take up to 12,000fu Nattokinase.
I would take what avoids anxiety and find a way to manage the blood; low e2 is also bad for cardiovascular longevity (anxiety & high BP will damage things over time) as well as neurological & emotional health.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
Thanks. When you say you’re not red, do you literally mean you’re skin isn’t red from the excess hemoglobin?
MrKleen73
Legend
Yes, that is what he means. Some guys who are red will get kind of purple during or after a hard set. Sounds to me like you are more comfortable at higher levels, but the HCT frightens you out of that state. One question I have would be have you increased your water and electrolyte intake to try to resolve this instead of just cutting your testosterone? Higher BP is one of the concerns with high HCT levels but it sounds like you said yours goes down when you are in the zone. You might be able to drop things a bit by increasing water and electrolyte intake.
Oh yeah, I measured last night, I am 39.5 at the belly button and 49.25 around my chest at 220lbs right now.