BMI, Carbon Footprint, and an assault on Bodybuilding
- Thread starter dsade
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suncloud
Well-known member
interesting trivia... we don't have recycling plants in the US. all those empty milk jugs and empty tuna cans head to san francisco and los angeles, where they are shipped to china so they can use the raws to make stuff. how in the heck does this make sense?
the oil and gas alone to make that possible virtually defeat the whole point of recycling, as we need more oil and gas to ship a finished product back to america.
i agree adams that we need to bring american jobs back, and to do that (sadly) we need to offer incentives to companies to have a larger US labor force.
Irish Cannon
Legend
I've heard a little about the recycling junk. Penn and Teller talked about it in one of their films.
The only reason I think it's sad we need to offer incentives is the fact that we've let it get that far to where our own citizens don't want to operate in their home countries. The only necessary incentive I believe there needs to be is to assure these corporations that we won't fiscally rape them in the pooper, or fire their CEOs.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
the sad thing is that this is even considered an "incentive" by the good graces of government.
Here....work your ass off and we might let you keep more of your money.
Simple fact is that for domestic companies, it makes more sense to keep as much here as possible - simply for logistics. But the entitlement culture makes it unreachable ideal (UAW, etc....yeah you).
Add that to the feedack shortout of patronizing walmarts business model (to squeeze even more from their paychecks) but condeming businesses for having to follow suit merely o survive.
Zero V
Well-known member
Capitalism is the bane of all evil IMO.
To a degree it inspires drive and growth. But ultimately it teachers Greed is the king of power, and that ignoring others lives and stepping on people is all that counts.
Major pharmaceutical companies and the FDA crap going on.....thats capitalism. The only people I know who support it anymore are pees in the banking field... though I am sure many more do. But currently its almost making socialism look good.
But it does inspire the worst sides of people. So few hold so much of the wealth. Seriously, what does any man need with a billion dollars... They didnt do a damn thing worth THAT much. Its just cycle of property rights to an idea, or a monopoly.
As for Americna taxes, I think all taxes need cut, and the Federal government needs reduced by 2/3 its size and power. I mean damn, the sheer amount of taxes they rake in even a retard couldnt misspend as badly as they do. Its all a big bowl of BS with a nice lil coating of FU on top.
suncloud
Well-known member
socialism is the rise of mediocrity. why do a good job if you can't get fired, and the top performers in your field get paid the same? why be a good teacher if you have 100% job security? ever wonder why russia lost accountability of nearly a third of its nuclear arsenal when its top generals and scientists were being paid in vouchers? vouchers don't buy food.
i think capitalism is the best, but when combined with government special interest groups, it looses most of its benefits, which i think is the point you were making.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Exactly... Capitalism does not promote greed, it promotes innovation because there are rewards for such. Why would I try to be a doctor in a socialistic country when I get not above and beyond benefit? I get the same benefits and healthcare from uncle government... when i can be mowing lawns for old folks and getting the same.
A select few with agenda's can ruin it for all.... ever wonder why private school teach so much better than public school, at appox 7K to the person here in Missouri, wereas public schools end up being 12K a person to the taxed, for a worse education. Yet another glaring kick in the head for the federal government.. the department of education is a joke, and should be relegated to the state.... blah, off topic really.
Adams
Zero V
Well-known member
technically a bit on topic. Our education leaves a horrible carbon footprint ^.^
I know socialism is bad...well Actually the Communist manifesto is ideal, it forms the perfect government. It is just when you add humans in, it fails, its epic fail...lol
But Capitalism today is responsible for out countries state of mind. In a recent political debate with a fellow he admitted capitalism uses the worst of mans nature to create an effective economic system. The problem is, and especially once you add interest into it, it can only sustain for so long before it cripples an economy. Interest itself is "un-earned" money. It creates imaginary money.
Say 5 guys have a pool of 20 bucks, ok. One guy borrows 10 bucks from 1 guy who had half of it. The guy charges him 10% interest a week. It takes him 11 weeks before he pays him back. He now owes that guy 21 dollars in an economy built of 20...so...now we have a problem....
Interest is the brainchild of capitalism. It is the greediest creation I have ever seen. Currently in America debt is rising, in a few years the average guy will have between 30-60K of debt. Every one is going to be claiming bankruptcy. Add in a lack of jobs, and it gets even worse. Add in a mentally challenged government and a 1 trillion dollar Fug you up the arse Plan, and it just gets pointless.
Without America actually facing death, and becoming a new country...its not likely to recover anytime soon. I mean, 20 years at least if it stays America, and by then fuhrer obama will on everything anyways.
Capitalism, needs checks an balances. Personally if you took Communism, and Democracy, based it o a limited capitalist economy. It would work.
But people who high incomes, say someone who makes 500million a year....uh...after 10 million bucks, their tax rate needs to be like 80%. If you cant live off of 10 million, then your strain on the world and the counties economy is too much....
God this is why I believe a 25 cent bullet solves issues.
Capitalism breeds that "If you arent giving me what I want, its not worth doing" bit. And it wrongly awards people money. The cruelest and worst **** heads are on the top of the food chain.
DAdams91982
Board Sponsor
Gotta call shinanigans on some of this.
Socialism/Communism blunt innovation... why do you think America has the most advanced healthcare? I honestly would like a multi-million dollar brain surgeon instead of one making the same as myself... you know why, because I know why he is making that much... hell, I am fine with buying him another yacht, if he takes care of me, then he deserves it, same for the next guy.
America has put regulations on things that do not need regulations... the private sector could have easily done much better with programs like medicare and social security, instead it is on the backs of people who do not need it as well. But instead we do punish the rich... why... because THEY were able to become successful? I am not well off in the least, but I also do not want to punish the top 5% because they were. Consumption tax is the way to go, and be fair.. right there is the way to tax the rich at a higher percent... yet in a fair manner.
Look at it this way, 5 guys have a night out every friday... from poor all the way up to rich, and split the bill... well the poorest guy takes in just as many beers as the rich, but sees the rich with money and says he is going to quit paying because he makes so much more, same with the next guy in line, next thing you know the rich guy is carrying these slobs on his back... now why would he wan't to stay and keep getting the shaft... that is what America and this administration wants to do... shaft the rich, I would leave America if that was the case.
Adams
B5150
Legend
Zero V
Well-known member
any valid input, no?
Irish Cannon
Legend
It's not capitalism that inspires greed, it's people and their own selfishness that use it that way. It's the failure to properly implement it.
It's really greedy to want to make a profit to have a good life for you and your family, isn't it?
Irish Cannon
Legend
I'm sure he has plenty of valid input but doesn't care to spend the time typing it out.
Zero V
Well-known member
It's not capitalism that inspires greed, it's people and their own selfishness that use it that way. It's the failure to properly implement it.
It's really greedy to want to make a profit to have a good life for you and your family, isn't it?
A good life is would be a combined income of maybe between 110-200K for a man and wife, which is not the case for most of america. With that they will have fall back, money to put into retirement savings, etc.
Do I need to have 6 corvettes, 2 dodge vipers, a personal jet, and someone to wipe my arse because I had an idea first and now have a monopoly on it?
Capitalism works because it gives to humanities desires of more more more.
As for a brain surgeon. Guess what, since I am poor, I woudlnt see a multi million dollar brain surgeon since I dont have insurance or money. I would be told to go sit at home and die, or they would use lower means to treat me.
Capitalism I admit is a necessary evil. But there needs to be caps on it. No man, no matter how successful he is can even spend a billion bucks. It is simply a pain to the economy.
Like I said you used a situation based on needing to live. Thats what it comes down to, every one is afraid of death. Today they can keep you alive for who knows how long even with naturally mortal wounds.
Capitalism I believe originally was a grand idea. But today, it has really jsut tuned to "How much can we rape the lower and middle income people for today"
Plus what about my piece on interest? About the 20 bucks. Any comment?
Zero V
Well-known member
I know I think he is still moody from my fun in another thread though :nervous:
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
So what stops you from having an idea first, putting an ungodly amount of effort into making it economicaly viable, creating advertising to make sure people know about it, working 18-20 hours a day trying fund everything and make sure the works gets done, then giving it away to those that DIDN'T have the idea because they were too concerned with drinking and watching "wrassling" to care?
KNock yourself out with your altruism.
Irish Cannon
Legend
Do you have any idea how many jobs these billionaires provide? Who gives a crap if they can never spend it...they earned it! Assuming they've achieved that money through legal means and don't feel a tugging on their heart in terms of any ethical or moral issues, then so what!
You're basically getting upset because these people have something that you don't. There are some amazing human beings that are also filthy rich. Remember that money is not the root of all evil, but the LOVE of money. Money is simply a tool. It can be used as good or bad, just as a hammer or screwdriver.
D3vildog
Active member
Truth, some of us just don't see the point in money period such as me. Its just a cycle, there is so much more to life but there is no way just to live without having a job. Many people would be much happier with just a house they built and farming for food. Unfortunately this isn't a real option anymore as money rules the earth.
You all have valid points, They earned the money which is true. The earned it congrats. They can spend it as they please. You get no arguments from me.
However when it comes down to money, or a person's life. This should be a no brainer, however we as a society have come to accept that if you don't have money for an operation, you have to sit a die or come up with the money to pay to get a surgery, or meds you need to Live. Thats that saddest part out of anything.
Money is a tool, true. But how its being used in today's world as betterment for self, other than the species is just plain sad.
-Sorry for any spelling errors
Irish Cannon
Legend
Health care is a separate issue. I'd be more than happy to toss money in the hat for people that actually need the help...People that work hard, pay their taxes (if required), purchase food for their families, etc...but when I'm expected to pay for peoples health care when they spend 70% of their income on drugs, that's when I keep my money to myself...And then state-funded abortions - no way. I won't even get into the issue of abortion in itself, but people that expect that to be payed for by taxpayers, wtf?!
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Can you grow every single thing you and your family needs with just your own labor?
Or do you then have to trade some of your excess for something someone ELSE grows? Congratulations, you have now re-entered the inevitable money cycle, which is in essence a way of preserving your excess production as something NON perishable.
Money, in it's purest conception, is good - as it represents extra productivity. Shall we always dwell just out of reach of inevitable sickness/mortality? Afraid of the slightest injury which will lead our families to either slavery or starvation? Or should we come up with a way to exchange our hard work for something that can be exchanged at a later time for something we will need then?
And there is, really, no such thing as "species" per se. Your genes are yours, and mine are mine. My philosophical systems can attempt to be transmitted by knowledge and learning, which takes immense PERSONAL effort, whereas others' might be morally repugnant to me and which I REFUSE to contribute to.
D3vildog
Active member
We are Humans, that makes us a species - Regardless of what you would like to think. Humanity goes nowhere if we all think for ourselves, there are so many things we could be capable of and we waste our lives trying to become the perfect family with white picket fences paying taxes. Getting a job to support a family, so that they can grow old and do the same. What's the point? Where is the innovation if that is all we do?
God or no God we exist for a reason and the reason isn't to just exist and become a slave to the cycle. We Live and Die that should be the only thing that is a cycle not how much money you can earn in a paycheck to advance yourself in society. Which is what in the long run? What does that money do to describe you as a person. The obsession with it is sickening to what is has become.
You have a valid point on what it's good could be. But alot of things that were supposed to be good failed terribly. Money is no different now, it has corrupted more that it can ever save.
"Can you grow every single thing you and your family needs with just your own labor?" Yes you can, people did it for thousands of years... and still continue to do it in less developed countries. Believe it or not you dont need half the things to survive that you might think. Food, Water, saftey (I.e warmth, place to live etc)
D3vildog
Active member
Touche - I have no argument here cause i agree.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Disease and hideous deficiencies also exist everywhere now where people attempt this.
A good example is vitamin C deficiencies in non-tropical regions.
I would say that we cannot "thrive" ideally by growing only what we think we need on our own land (and by extension, since the money system and capitalism made possible things like fertilizers, tractors, etc) using only rudimentary hand tools and beasts of burden.
Irish Cannon
Legend
I take 5g/day. Lawlz. I'm so filthy greedy. I eats allt he vitamins Cs int he world.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
I gotted you all some vita-cees...but IC eated it all.
D3vildog
Active member
Now where people attempt this we have issues with disease, because they are not good locations to farm. 
Could we do this kind of living now? No, not for long. Is it something I would prefer? yes but i live with cards i am dealt with. Those aren't it.
There are still many tribes out there that live this way, and they do just fine. Which is important to remember. That have a basic for of a trade, goods for goods. Which, to me, is much better.
However to each their own, i feel that the way things are now are to far gone to be saved by remembering that Capatlism and money can be good. there are people out there that still think it is good and can be saved. Obviously your one of them. Thats cool. Like i said To each their own on this topic.
Could we do this kind of living now? No, not for long. Is it something I would prefer? yes but i live with cards i am dealt with. Those aren't it.
There are still many tribes out there that live this way, and they do just fine. Which is important to remember. That have a basic for of a trade, goods for goods. Which, to me, is much better.
However to each their own, i feel that the way things are now are to far gone to be saved by remembering that Capatlism and money can be good. there are people out there that still think it is good and can be saved. Obviously your one of them. Thats cool. Like i said To each their own on this topic.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Now where people attempt this we have issues with disease, because they are not good locations to farm.
Could we do this kind of living now? No, not for long. Is it something I would prefer? yes but i live with cards i am dealt with. Those aren't it.
There are still many tribes out there that live this way, and they do just fine. Which is important to remember. That have a basic for of a trade, goods for goods. Which, to me, is much better.
However to each their own, i feel that the way things are now are to far gone to be saved by remembering that Capatlism and money can be good. there are people out there that still think it is good and can be saved. Obviously your one of them. Thats cool. Like i said To each their own on this topic.
To each his own, yes...and there are those that live VERY basically. Sounds wonderful - until you watch one of your loved ones twisted by Polio, or ravaged by Yellow Fever, or ripped apart by wolves - then you start to realize - Damn, Modern Medicine and guns are pretty damn handy to have around.
quite the tengential journey in this topic.
Irish Cannon
Legend
To each his own, yes...and there are those that live VERY basically. Sounds wonderful - until you watch one of your loved ones twisted by Polio, or ravaged by Yellow Fever, or ripped apart by wolves - then you start to realize - Damn, Modern Medicine and guns are pretty damn handy to have around.
quite the tengential journey in this topic.
:dunno:
Invalid Link Removed
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Tatanka?
D3vildog
Active member
Hey i'm all for guns! Former Marine 
Meds i'm not a huge fan of, but thats mostly from the Marines shoving god only knows what into me to test out. Many a time i was in line for my 5th flu shot of the month. :/
And i'm allergic to painkillers so i have to watch what meds i take. Grr
Meds i'm not a huge fan of, but thats mostly from the Marines shoving god only knows what into me to test out. Many a time i was in line for my 5th flu shot of the month. :/
And i'm allergic to painkillers so i have to watch what meds i take. Grr
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Hey i'm all for guns! Former Marine
Meds i'm not a huge fan of, but thats mostly from the Marines shoving god only knows what into me to test out. Many a time i was in line for my 5th flu shot of the month. :/
And i'm allergic to painkillers so i have to watch what meds i take. Grr
Nothing has made me feel as utterly shitty as my predeployment Anthrax vaccine.
I don't know what is in it, but it made a whole bunch of us sick.
Zero V
Well-known member
Hey i'm all for guns! Former Marine
Meds i'm not a huge fan of, but thats mostly from the Marines shoving god only knows what into me to test out. Many a time i was in line for my 5th flu shot of the month. :/
And i'm allergic to painkillers so i have to watch what meds i take. Grr
My bro is in the marines. I love guns as well, looking into an AK. I hate gun laws, they only protect criminals.
I understand from being in the army...I didnt know there were so many vaccinations, and I was lucky, I didnt have to go overseas. I hear its like a firing line of needles for Iraq.
Irish Cannon
Legend
Helping other people from the good of your heart is far different than the government forcing you to help people. Capitalism allows us to create wealth to GIVE...Socialism forces us to work and accumulate wealth which is then taken by the government and passed around. Not the same.
Lets say your Mom comes in your room and says I'll give you ten dollars to clean your room. Let's call that ten dollars your capital. You have a friend with and you say, "If you help me clean this room I'll give you 3 dollars and we can go out sooner." - You've thus made a profit AND created a job.
Socialism is when your Mom (the govt) gives you ten dollars to clean your room, then takes the ten back, hands you four, and passes out the other six dollars to your friends that didn't do anything.
Zero V
Well-known member
I completely understand. I just hate that mankind doesnt work as a whole. technically if every man put his due in, thats why I say communism on paper is good. Think f a modified communist ideal, combined with democracy. Taking the best of each.
No one ever got back to my interest thing and the 20 bucks.
Zero V
Well-known member
hahahah. Sure, saved my the sims.
About the 20 bucks
Like I said
a group of five guys, has 20 bucks between them. Cut off the world, just 20 bucks. A guy who has 10 of it lends it to another of the group at 10% interest a week. 11 weeks pass before he pays it back. He now owes him the original 10 bucks, plus 11 dollars in interest. They only have twenty bucks between them. The economy is now bust :dunno: He owes the guy 21 dollars in an economy of 20.
D3vildog
Active member
Its a good example but has some flaws.
1. 5 guys cut off from the world.. have 20 bucks. But if they are cut off from the world they don't have much use for 20 bucks sides to light a fire.
2. I could see it applied to a developing country going into debt and such and they can't just create money. I don't get the application to the rest of the world however. Maybe i'm just stupid. :dunno:
This kinda seems to be how slavery got a big start, guy owes money, can't pay so he has to work it off, but whose to say what an hour of one man's work equals in this world of 5 dudes, hopefully one is a lady or we are Screwed...
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
This is where your example has no application to the real world. The world is not a closed system, nor is the economy.
The creation of new technologies, innovation of existing technologies, and just plain hard-assed work all INCREASE the amount of wealth available.
What you are angling at is justification for forced redistribution, and your argument is invalid.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Example:
Make your 3 men farmers. Working 8 hours a day will yield 15 bushels of wild green beans per acre, which is barely enough to feed the man and his family. Your example ends here.
Now...working 10 hours a day, examinin soil properties, adding nutrients, cross breeding strains of beans, and irrigation IMPROVES one farmers yield 5 fold. The one farmer now has a surplus. He invests the surplus by having more kids which, 8 years down the road, are able to then place THEIR labor to even further the farm's yield.
To take it even farther, bitter farmer number 2 uses a bushel of beans to trade for some alcohol to "wipe away his poor me troubles", and then has to borrow a bushel from somewhere. Why should farmer number 1 be forced to give up a bushel of beans?
Make your 3 men farmers. Working 8 hours a day will yield 15 bushels of wild green beans per acre, which is barely enough to feed the man and his family. Your example ends here.
Now...working 10 hours a day, examinin soil properties, adding nutrients, cross breeding strains of beans, and irrigation IMPROVES one farmers yield 5 fold. The one farmer now has a surplus. He invests the surplus by having more kids which, 8 years down the road, are able to then place THEIR labor to even further the farm's yield.
To take it even farther, bitter farmer number 2 uses a bushel of beans to trade for some alcohol to "wipe away his poor me troubles", and then has to borrow a bushel from somewhere. Why should farmer number 1 be forced to give up a bushel of beans?
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
No, they don't. You fail economics.
You are still looking at a closed system where the amount of wealth that exists is stagnant, and it is just a matter of distribution of a preexisting quantity. This has no relationship to reality.
You need to, perhaps, read a little bit more. Von Mises, perhaps?
Zero V
Well-known member
True I am no economics pro. But the U.S. dollar isnt even backed by the mint anymore I thought.
Obviously, there is a flaw in the system we use. Why? Because we are heading straight down. So then what is hte solution? Interest in and of itself is unearned money. No sweat is made for it, no pains done. Simple the bastard who already has money, ripping someone off who doesnt. It simply makes a bad cycle.
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
Again, incorrect.
If you ASK me to borrow what I already worked for - why should i? How do I know you will even pay me back? Why should I go without use of MY money (perhaps to take my wife out for our anniversary)?
Ok, I will lend you some money and you pay me back at a rate we BOTH freely agree on.
How am I ripping you off?
Zero V
Well-known member
no one wants to agree to pay 400K for a 180K house, but its the only way -.-
Our society is based too much off credit.
I understand. I do, but its obviously failed as a system. I mean, in all reality this could pose the chance if the world economy stays like this for major wars to take place. And if it goes to a NWO, then I dont care anymore cuz its end times anyways
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
See...we do not have a RIGHT to a 180k house. As a matter of fact, we don't have a RIGHT to ANY house.
Anything that must be provided by someone else's work is not a right (i'm lookin at you, Healthcare)
Zero V
Well-known member
lol. Health care is one big screw up anymore.
I should have the right to pick a piece of land, and build a damn house myself. Old school style. Is that possible? No. Why The government sectored everything off, and charges tax every single year for living here, after taxing your work, and your shopping, and your gas, and everything else.
Seriously only a 5 year old child could toss into the garbage as much money as the U.S. government has...
Alot of it goes to supporting useless citizens. Which My belief is put them in a do or die position. Paying a women to lay on her back in the ghetto and shoot out kids as an income is BS. Also leads to over population
dsade
NutraPlanet Fanatic
D3vildog
Active member
Truth