best pump sup?

UncleWade said:
3g of SNS Citrulline Malate was more than sufficient for my PHAT Lower Body Power Day yesterday.

One (3g) or two (6g) scoops of CM are a great addition to any stack - I've also noticed improved recovery from daily CM supplementation, another one of the clinically validated benefits of citrulline.

I'm very pleased with the way this stuff is working out from the perspective of a new product! :)
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Still awaiting mine to get in.. Your posts just add to my anticipation..
 
ArturoLatino said:
I am not a fan or a person who uses a pure Pump product. I do use NO products such as pre-workouts to get a little bit of energy for a workout, but I am not one who chases the pump. Again I dont use a PURE pump product, I dont enjoy chasing the pump on my workouts, so therefore my use for it would not be used, nor do i really take in any carbs pre-workout (train fasted) so the results/effects of the product would not really shine because I hate eating before training.
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lol.. you are a gaspari rep.

Didn't they just come out with a sole pump product? Way to talk it down bro.
 
D3Baseball said:
LOL you should know better...ask Joe or Bald what I'm talking about
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Haha I will have to. I no he's not a real rep. He's the guy who made a post asking for a supplement for sexual boners
 
hvactech said:
i have yet to try my ae2 matrix from sns....
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Arginine is by no means my favorite pump ingredient, but the big dose of norvaline combined with the ornithine helps potentiate an AWESOME pump, especially when combined with other SNS products like Agmatine and Citrulline Malate.

It's great. :D
 
havent tried the cm yet...but agmatine is a staple
 
hvactech said:
havent tried the cm yet...but agmatine is a staple
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I was one of the biggest fans of Agmatine before I was a rep for SNS, and have pimped it to many people looking for an effective, economical staple - but the SNS Citrulline Malate is honestly better. It's even better than other CM products I've tried from other brands. The pump, endurance, and recovery benefits are fantastic.

FANTASTIC. ;)
 
UncleWade said:
I was one of the biggest fans of Agmatine before I was a rep for SNS, and have pimped it to many people looking for an effective, economical staple - but the SNS Citrulline Malate is honestly better. It's even better than other CM products I've tried from other brands. The pump, endurance, and recovery benefits are fantastic.

FANTASTIC. ;)
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Honestly, SNS citrulline malate seems to blow away any other bulk powders with respect to effects (and cost).
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Honestly, SNS citrulline malate seems to blow away any other bulk powders with respect to effects (and cost).
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I just placed an order for some, cant wait to try it out, I have never used CM before. I am also thinking about picking up some agmatine and stacking the two for a preworkout
 
BaDgErFaN said:
I just placed an order for some, cant wait to try it out, I have never used CM before. I am also thinking about picking up some agmatine and stacking the two for a preworkout
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They certainly complement each other, but I would recommend trying each separately before combining them, just to see how you respond to the respective ingredients.
 
Hemavol has both in it. I was thinking about making my own pre also.
 
NuclearLaunch said:
Hemavol has both in it. I was thinking about making my own pre also.
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I've made my own pre workouts for the longest time and still do. I use hemavol as a starting point and add some extra goodies from time to time. Plus the flavor of hemavol covers up most bulk powder easily.
 
UncleWade said:
I'm sure we could design something sexy. It'll keep your pina colada in your shaker bottle cool on hot days in Vegas. :D

Has anyone taken a look at SNS Arginine E2 Matrix? Everyone despises arginine (as you probably should), but the extras of a big dose of norvaline and ornithine have me contemplating putting it in my next rep order to try out. Some of the stuff you'd usually scoff at deserves a closer look. I've learned a lesson. ;)
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I've used it. worth picking up. I know gq liked it too. Arginine as a pump product its probanly not effective but that doesnt mean its not beneficial in other ways
 
BaDgErFaN said:
I just placed an order for some, cant wait to try it out, I have never used CM before. I am also thinking about picking up some agmatine and stacking the two for a preworkout
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Get rdy for a bicep burst lol
 
the flavoring on hemavol is KEY to making your own. it will cover up sooo much more stuff.
the ingredient panel is essentially what you have boughten and i promise you next month when you order hemavol you will never buy bulk and TRY to cover up flavors again
 
JN230 said:
the flavoring on hemavol is KEY to making your own. it will cover up sooo much more stuff.
the ingredient panel is essentially what you have boughten and i promise you next month when you order hemavol you will never buy bulk and TRY to cover up flavors again
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I love the flavor of hemavol; only had the lemon but it is one of the best-tasting pre's out there. I will say that the individual is only using citrulline malate in powder form, which actually tastes pretty good and tart, and can be mixed with crystal light. I believe it's the alpha-gpc in hemavol that is the nasty one
 
but my question is why go get crystal light on top of something? had he purchased hemavol then he has no need to add extra flavoring.
 
JN230 said:
but my question is why go get crystal light on top of something? had he purchased hemavol then he has no need to add extra flavoring.
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I see your point, but I could also ask: why buy hemavol if he could buy bulk CM and flavor with crystal light? In the end, it's really preference with respect to a. cost and b. convenience :)
 
CM-$.08/g and for 2.5g=$.20
Agmatine $.45/500mg

Hemavol-FLAVORED 2.5g citrulline 500mg agmatine
$1/serv but can be lower sometimes as well

Crystal Light $5 for the big sticks, roughly 1/3 stick to flavor means for $5 you get 15 servings, $.33/serving

so for the same price you get Methyl B12, alphaGPC, norvaline, GMS and vit C and icarrin

HMMMMMM whats cost effective?
 
StackedCop said:
I've made my own pre workouts for the longest time and still do. I use hemavol as a starting point and add some extra goodies from time to time. Plus the flavor of hemavol covers up most bulk powder easily.
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I need to start looking into dosing my own mixture of goodies along side Hemavol. I agree, while others posted this already, that Hemavol seems to be a very good base flavoring for other materials. Fill me in on your secrets ;)
 
JN230 said:
CM-$.08/g and for 2.5g=$.20
Agmatine $.45/500mg

Hemavol-FLAVORED 2.5g citrulline 500mg agmatine
$1/serv but can be lower sometimes as well

Crystal Light $5 for the big sticks, roughly 1/3 stick to flavor means for $5 you get 15 servings, $.33/serving

so for the same price you get Methyl B12, alphaGPC, norvaline, GMS and vit C and icarrin

HMMMMMM whats cost effective?
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Except the individual in question is talking about Citrulline Malate, nothing else. If you look at ANY of my past posts, I recommend Hemavol if someone is looking for an all-around pump and endurance product. However, I do not like when things are misconstrued or posts are taken out of context.

The person we are talking about has SNS Citrulline Malate, which is $0.22 per 3g. That's it. Hemavol is clearly a great product and cost-effective, but if you're in his situation and are using only citrulline malate, there is no question that bulk citrulline malate is cheaper. That's my point. And as far as I know, Hemavol should not be found for cheaper than the price you listed ;)

I've recommended Hemavol in the past and will continue to do so, but in the particular instance of someone looking for a bulk citrulline malate powder, it will be cheaper than Hemavol 10 times out of 10. That, again, comes down to personal preference and is goal-dependent. That's all I was trying to say from the get-go.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I see your point, but I could also ask: why buy hemavol if he could buy bulk CM and flavor with crystal light? In the end, it's really preference with respect to a. cost and b. convenience :)
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I just mix the cit mal in my focus XT. Tastes perfect.
 
fightbackhxc said:
I've used it. worth picking up. I know gq liked it too. Arginine as a pump product its probanly not effective but that doesnt mean its not beneficial in other ways
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Hey Fightback. I am in agreement with the popular consensus that arginine and it's various salts probably don't effect nitric oxide very much. However, as far as a pump... whatever it is (insulin sensetivity, etc.) that it does has ALWAYS worked for me. Arginine AKG (since I started it in 2002) has had people telling me that I was looking really swole and other arginines have also worked well for the pump effect. Who knows?

Basically, the only time that I have seen a drop-off in arginine use and sales was a result of companies (not one in particular) telling the consumers that it doesn't work. ALRI subtly did that with creatine ethyl ester when they replaced it with dicreatine phosphate. They said something like, "CEE was great while it lasted, but now the real king of kings has been discovered! Enter dicreatine phosphate: The ultimate creatine!"

Sigma Tau or whoever makes GPLC is one of MANY companies who claim to have something much better and that arginine is for 'idiots' and that you are basically wasting your money. Though a lot of uneducated people may go for things that the more educated people (like the board members) would scoff at, such as Cell Tech. lol. I have to laugh whenever I think of Cell Tech. But, even the more hardcore members and somewhat educated people will drop whatever IS working for them, just because some new product has something better or someone very reputable will say that it's no longer any good.

Again, I'm not targeting you or anyone else. The whole arginine thing just sparked me to remember a lot of supplements that worked REALLY well for people, with few complaints and all it took was for a thread or two to spread to the rest of the bb community and now that product or compound is no longer any good. I personally like the Arginine E2 Matrix btw ;)
 
Force of Green,

Arginine does increase muscle blood volume but does not increase NO as per recent studies. It can serve as an aesthetic, non-functional pump agent. I prefer citrulline malate or agmatine because they provide benefits that extend far beyond a pump.

As far as Sig Tau's claims, I think their approach is quite transparent if you catch my drift
 
I only read the last two pages in this epic thread...

Its threads like this one with a civil healthy debate is what make this forum better than "that other one" :D


Pretty much everyone had a point...

based on my experience the SINGLE best ingredient for pumps is agmatine .... When I'm not taking Hemavol (ran out or whatever), Im using agmatine caps... I remember very well last year when Cooper sent me some samples that did get crushed.. ;)

However, the best "all-in-one" pump product is of course Hemavol (agmatine, cm, norvaline, and etc) .... that should not even be up for debate.

Cost vs Convenience? ---> it is hard to break it down which is better. A tub of Hemavol will last me over a month since I dont use it daily. I would LOVE to make my own ****tail but I dont have the proper tools (weight scale, capsule kit, and etc) nor do i have the time (3 little kids, home stuff will do that do to ya). Those who are able to make their own pump or pre ****tail then im jelly :p

There is no right or wrong here...winners or losers....
 
Loudy Rowdy said:
I only read the last two pages in this epic thread...

Its threads like this one with a civil healthy debate is what make this forum better than "that other one" :D


Pretty much everyone had a point...

based on my experience the SINGLE best ingredient for pumps is agmatine .... When I'm not taking Hemavol (ran out or whatever), Im using agmatine caps... I remember very well last year when Cooper sent me some samples that did get crushed.. ;)

However, the best "all-in-one" pump product is of course Hemavol (agmatine, cm, norvaline, and etc) .... that should not even be up for debate.

Cost vs Convenience? ---> it is hard to break it down which is better. A tub of Hemavol will last me over a month since I dont use it daily. I would LOVE to make my own ****tail but I dont have the proper tools (weight scale, capsule kit, and etc) nor do i have the time (3 little kids, home stuff will do that do to ya). Those who are able to make their own pump or pre ****tail then im jelly :p

There is no right or wrong here...winners or losers....
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Hemavol ftw!
 
i can see what you mean, (damn speed reading of OP posts) but if he were looking for an all around cost effective pump supplement there is none better than Hemavol....agreed?


mr.cooper69 said:
Except the individual in question is talking about Citrulline Malate, nothing else. If you look at ANY of my past posts, I recommend Hemavol if someone is looking for an all-around pump and endurance product. However, I do not like when things are misconstrued or posts are taken out of context.

The person we are talking about has SNS Citrulline Malate, which is $0.22 per 3g. That's it. Hemavol is clearly a great product and cost-effective, but if you're in his situation and are using only citrulline malate, there is no question that bulk citrulline malate is cheaper. That's my point. And as far as I know, Hemavol should not be found for cheaper than the price you listed ;)

I've recommended Hemavol in the past and will continue to do so, but in the particular instance of someone looking for a bulk citrulline malate powder, it will be cheaper than Hemavol 10 times out of 10. That, again, comes down to personal preference and is goal-dependent. That's all I was trying to say from the get-go.
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JN230 said:
i can see what you mean, (damn speed reading of OP posts) but if he were looking for an all around cost effective pump supplement there is none better than Hemavol....agreed?
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Absolutely. Hemavol is the best comprehensive pump product I've used. My point was more in regards to dedicated Citrulline Malate use alongside daily Agmatine use (remember, the best time to use agmatine is not​ preworkout).
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Force of Green,

Arginine does increase muscle blood volume but does not increase NO as per recent studies. It can serve as an aesthetic, non-functional pump agent. I prefer citrulline malate or agmatine because they provide benefits that extend far beyond a pump.

As far as Sig Tau's claims, I think their approach is quite transparent if you catch my drift
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Thanks for your response. I'm right there with you as far as arginine not increasing NO and it being pretty much aesthetic only.

In my opinion, when someone asks about 'best pump sup', that individual doesn't mind if the supp will aid in endurance (malic acid), or if an ingredient agonizes the NDMA and imadazoline receptors(agmatine), or any other of the science... Maybe I'm used to the typical persons who I sometimes talk to off the boards with questions like, "yo, what supp is gonna make my veins pop?" or "Hey bro, what supp will like... get me ripped?" I'm not trying to sound like an ass and I am not assuming that the OP is unintelligent.

Hemavol worked great for me, Vasotropin, roids, arginine variants, Sin Sane, P-Slin, Recompadrol, R-ALA, Ragnarok, etc.
 
Force of Green said:
Thanks for your response. I'm right there with you as far as arginine not increasing NO and it being pretty much aesthetic only.

In my opinion, when someone asks about 'best pump sup', that individual doesn't mind if the supp will aid in endurance (malic acid), or if an ingredient agonizes the NDMA and imadazoline receptors(agmatine), or any other of the science... Maybe I'm used to the typical persons who I sometimes talk to off the boards with questions like, "yo, what supp is gonna make my veins pop?" or "Hey bro, what supp will like... get me ripped?" I'm not trying to sound like an ass and I am not assuming that the OP is unintelligent.

Hemavol worked great for me, Vasotropin, roids, arginine variants, Sin Sane, P-Slin, Recompadrol, R-ALA, Ragnarok, etc.
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They may not be looking for it, but I still like to help them make the best possible purchase. :)

P.S.: It is the citrulline moiety that aids in endurance. The malate's effects are either secondary or possibly non-existent.
 
Drink a very strong black coffee and muscle marinade after (all pre-workout) trust me i felt like I was going to kill someone lol!
 
JN230 said:
i can see what you mean, (damn speed reading of OP posts) but if he were looking for an all around cost effective pump supplement there is none better than Hemavol....agreed?
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Very true, agreed on all counts but I wouldn't dose Hema on any day I wasn't lifting, but I always dose Agmatine 750mg AM..

IMO,

I'd use the flavor of Hema+an extra 3g SNS Cit-Mal+250-500mg of Agmatine...

That's what I used to do (I had primaforce CM at the time) with my tub of Hemavol to extend the length of the tub.

I love hemavol though, it's a great product and the price point is perfect.
 
have you paired it with Maximize intense yet? the added agmatine makes it a GREAT stack!
tons of focus and energy, and pump!

i do like cit mal as well and agmatine too but fr me the flavor of hemavol is too tasty to not have ever day, even if its 1/2 scoop

Daycrawler said:
Very true, agreed on all counts but I wouldn't dose Hema on any day I wasn't lifting, but I always dose Agmatine 750mg AM..

IMO,

I'd use the flavor of Hema+an extra 3g SNS Cit-Mal+250-500mg of Agmatine...

That's what I used to do (I had primaforce CM at the time) with my tub of Hemavol to extend the length of the tub.

I love hemavol though, it's a great product and the price point is perfect.
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Yeah, I purchased a tub of Maximize Intense and Hemavol locally from Dusty @ House of Fitness.

MI is quite great, paired with Hemavol was great.


JN230 said:
have you paired it with Maximize intense yet? the added agmatine makes it a GREAT stack!
tons of focus and energy, and pump!

i do like cit mal as well and agmatine too but fr me the flavor of hemavol is too tasty to not have ever day, even if its 1/2 scoop
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mr.cooper69 said:
They may not be looking for it, but I still like to help them make the best possible purchase. :)

P.S.: It is the citrulline moiety that aids in endurance. The malate's effects are either secondary or possibly non-existent.
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True on the best possible purchase advice. Don't quote me, but I do remember reading about Dr. Hauser (on LB a while ago) talking about the malates possibly being the cause for the enhanced endurance, stamina, and vigor and I read a few articles that debated whether this is the case or not. Yes, citrulline malate has been shown to increase endurance, stamina, vigor, etc. but malic acid and other compounds bonded to malic acid do the same thing as well as malic acid alone. So I don't know?

Malic acid is a colorless, crystalline compound that has two forms: l-malic, the natural and biologically active isomer contained in food, and d-malic, which is produced by some micro-organisms or made chemically. Responsible for the sour taste of unripe fruits, malic acid is used in the aging of wine and as an additive in hard candies and low-calorie beverages, cider and apple drinks because it keeps the natural color of juice.
Malates are negatively charged ions that combine with malic acid. The malate anion plays a key role in the citric acid, or Krebs, cycle, which is a series of metabolic reactions in organisms that produce high-energy phosphate compounds. Malic acid, produced as malates using various minerals such as magnesium, calcium and citrulline, can enhance pharmaceutical stability and improve absorption.
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[QUOTE
Citrulline malate is a supplement form of l-citrulline, an essential amino acid found in foods such as watermelon. This supplement is common in the bodybuilding community because it is thought to decrease body fat and promote release of human growth hormone and increased muscle mass. These claims have not been scientifically proven; however, clinical trials indicate that citrulline malate might have several health benefits.

​
Citrulline malate is a supplement form of l-citrulline, an essential amino acid found in foods such as watermelon. This supplement is common in the bodybuilding community because it is thought to decrease body fat and promote release of human growth hormone and increased muscle mass. These claims have not been scientifically proven; however, clinical trials indicate that citrulline malate might have several health benefits.
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Then pubmed says that with rats it helped skeletal muscle efficiency.
Citrulline malate (CM; CAS 54940-97-5, Stimol®) is known to limit the deleterious effect of asthenic state on muscle function, but its effect under healthy condition remains poorly documented. The aim of this longitudinal double-blind study was to investigate the effect of oral ingestion of CM on muscle mechanical performance and bioenergetics in normal rat. Gastrocnemius muscle function was investigated strictly non-invasively using nuclear magnetic resonance techniques. A standardized rest-stimulation- (5.7 min of repeated isometric contractions electrically induced by transcutaneous stimulation at a frequency of 3.3 Hz) recovery-protocol was performed twice, i.e., before (t(0)-24 h) and after (t(0)+48 h) CM (3 g/kg/day) or vehicle treatment. CM supplementation did not affect PCr/ATP ratio, [PCr], [Pi], [ATP] and intracellular pH at rest. During the stimulation period, it lead to a 23% enhancement of specific force production that was associated to significant decrease in both PCr (28%) and oxidative (32%) costs of contraction, but had no effect on the time-courses of phosphorylated compounds and intracellular pH. Furthermore, both the rate of PCr resynthesis during the post-stimulation period (VPCr(rec)) and the oxidative ATP synthesis capacity (Q(max)) remained unaffected by CM treatment. These data demonstrate that CM supplementation under healthy condition has an ergogenic effect associated to an improvement of muscular contraction efficiency.
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I just honestly don't know anymore. Supplements can be frustrating. Citrulline malate sold as a dietary supplement may not even be bonded in many cases.
 
I can delve into this later if you'd like. Malate may enhance endurance but the primary benefit is seen from Citrulline's effects on NO production and bicarbonate reabsorption in the kidney.

If you want to get into some full-texts where they detail how Citrulline Malate works, I recommend study #1 found on post 4 of this BELOVED forum: Invalid Link Removed
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I can delve into this later if you'd like. Malate may enhance endurance but the primary benefit is seen from Citrulline's effects on NO production and bicarbonate reabsorption in the kidney.

If you want to get into some full-texts where they detail how Citrulline Malate works, I recommend study #1 found on post 4 of this BELOVED forum: Invalid Link Removed
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Haha. I came across that debate a little bit ago. I browse bb.com, but don't actually post up on there. There's some good stuff on there. I do know that citrulline malate does increase plasma levels of arginine, nitrite, uridine, ornithine, and... creatinine... and increase NO.... I didn't even mean to imply that the citrulline did nothing. haha. But my mistake of omission and the topic of malates coming up got me thinking again ;)
 
Force of Green said:
Haha. I came across that debate a little bit ago. I browse bb.com, but don't actually post up on there. There's some good stuff on there. I do know that citrulline malate does increase plasma levels of arginine, nitrite, uridine, ornithine, and... creatinine... and increase NO.... I didn't even mean to imply that the citrulline did nothing. haha. But my mistake of omission and the topic of malates coming up got me thinking again ;)
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In short, there is reason to believe that malate may be an ergogen, but it is not proven as of yet. The citrulline is the most valuable of the two, and it has a more direct role in endurance, pumps, and soreness reduction.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
In short, there is reason to believe that malate may be an ergogen, but it is not proven as of yet. The citrulline is the most valuable of the two, and it has a more direct role in endurance, pumps, and soreness reduction.
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Maybe I'll crack open my tub of it again ;)

I forgot about a good iPod playlist. No other supp can pump you up like some good music :D

 
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