Best pre workout nowadays?

WesleyInman said:
Angel Dust original was one of the best products ever IMO..it was great.

Seems like alot of guys here want the "pump" out of their preworkout..maybe I misunderstood..when I get a preworkout, I want performance. I want to train harder, longer and stronger and have an energy and focus boost. A pump that is too extreme or a spike in blood pressure is not a good thing in terms or performance.

Did this thread mean to identify the best preworkout for pumps?? And temporary size gains??
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Nothing wrong with a good pump. I enjoy it too, but I prefer what you explained; focus and energy transferring to lifting harder and longer:

STIMUL8
 
I'm always amazed at how many new preWO products I see popping up from new brands in my FB feed.

I still havent found any to really top Fierce, Giants Bioshock or Katana.
 
WesleyInman said:
Angel Dust original was one of the best products ever IMO..it was great.

Seems like alot of guys here want the "pump" out of their preworkout..maybe I misunderstood..when I get a preworkout, I want performance. I want to train harder, longer and stronger and have an energy and focus boost. A pump that is too extreme or a spike in blood pressure is not a good thing in terms or performance.

Did this thread mean to identify the best preworkout for pumps?? And temporary size gains??
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Actually, most pump ingredients improve vasoregulatory function and are well-documented as performance enhancers. NO has also been found to be directly myogenic. Take a gander at the high volume writeup and educate yourself :)
 
jaces said:
I just hate the fact that most have a proprietary. Blend
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I agree it can be annoying until you find one that blows you away that is a prop. blend. Angel Dust Original with 1,3 dmaa was just that and now it's Ultimate Orange.Juiced is what I use.
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mr.cooper69 said:
Actually, most pump ingredients improve vasoregulatory function and are well-documented as performance enhancers. NO has also been found to be directly myogenic. Take a gander at the high volume writeup and educate yourself :)
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No offense but I don't need to "educate" myself. I can and have used products that produce a pump and they eliminate strength from me. When my pump is too intense, I can't even workout anymore, so for "me" and my clients it is "counterproductive". For a bodybuilder only I can see them as definitively necessary but I deal with alot of "Strength" athletes. Also even a crossfitter wouldn't want a pump. A pump negates the ability to continue. I've had calf cramps so bad from NO2..I can't walk. My calf "looked" huge but that doesn't help performance. To each his own, I just believe there is a huge difference between a preworkout for performance and one that solely works off pump is all. I am certainly not the end all and be all of this discussion by any means.

But maybe I'm wrong and should educate myself ;P ;P :)
 
The Engineer said:
I second this motion. Our preworkout Frenzy is a very solid choice. Check out the profile:

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i am happy to see the recent return of glycocarn, but not sure about the amount? i know as a solo ingredient 4.5gm was golden, not sure how much being part of a blend will have on it's effectiveness!!! BUT...aen APE is one of my favorite test boosters and i am sure it is glycocarn that sets it apart from other testofen products i have used, and i doubt if it is dosed very high since the entire prop blend is only 1035mg.
 
WesleyInman said:
Angel Dust original was one of the best products ever IMO..it was great.

Seems like alot of guys here want the "pump" out of their preworkout..maybe I misunderstood..when I get a preworkout, I want performance. I want to train harder, longer and stronger and have an energy and focus boost. A pump that is too extreme or a spike in blood pressure is not a good thing in terms or performance.

Did this thread mean to identify the best preworkout for pumps?? And temporary size gains??
Click to expand...

i've got a tub of menace-'driven' coming, i've got high expectations, love dem stims!!!!
 
WesleyInman said:
No offense but I don't need to "educate" myself. I can and have used products that produce a pump and they eliminate strength from me. When my pump is too intense, I can't even workout anymore, so for "me" and my clients it is "counterproductive". For a bodybuilder only I can see them as definitively necessary but I deal with alot of "Strength" athletes. Also even a crossfitter wouldn't want a pump. A pump negates the ability to continue. I've had calf cramps so bad from NO2..I can't walk. My calf "looked" huge but that doesn't help performance. To each his own, I just believe there is a huge difference between a preworkout for performance and one that solely works off pump is all. I am certainly not the end all and be all of this discussion by any means.

But maybe I'm wrong and should educate myself ;P ;P :)
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That's fine for your "belief," but actual clinical evidence shows otherwise. I follow objectivity, not subjectivity.
 
The miseducation of unlearning
 
The Engineer said:
I second this motion. Our preworkout Frenzy is a very solid choice. Check out the profile:

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ingredients on a panel supposed to be listed from highest amount to lowest? If so, how can l-tyrosine be listed before caffeine in the 550 mg driven stim complex if 375 mg of that is caffeine? If the caffeine amount listed is correct, then only 175 mg remains for everything else in that blend.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ingredients on a panel supposed to be listed from highest amount to lowest?
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That's news to me.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ingredients on a panel supposed to be listed from highest amount to lowest? If so, how can l-tyrosine be listed before caffeine in the 550 mg driven stim complex if 375 mg of that is caffeine? If the caffeine amount listed is correct, then only 175 mg remains for everything else in that blend.
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It certainly should be labeled in such a fashion.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ingredients on a panel supposed to be listed from highest amount to lowest? If so, how can l-tyrosine be listed before caffeine in the 550 mg driven stim complex if 375 mg of that is caffeine? If the caffeine amount listed is correct, then only 175 mg remains for everything else in that blend.
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I will have an answer shortly
 
koi1214 said:
I will have an answer shortly
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Thank you. This isn't meant to be an attack on the product or anything. I just really thought that was how ingredients were supposed to be listed in proprietary blends. I've often used that understanding to estimate ingredient dosages in a blend when the dosage for one of the items (like caffeine) is provided...based on its position in the blend label. Therefore, I would definitely like to know if my understanding of proprietary blend labeling is incorrect.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ingredients on a panel supposed to be listed from highest amount to lowest? If so, how can l-tyrosine be listed before caffeine in the 550 mg driven stim complex if 375 mg of that is caffeine? If the caffeine amount listed is correct, then only 175 mg remains for everything else in that blend.
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I want to double check with our legal team. I personally believe that if the caffeine mg weight is listed, it can be anywhere in the blend. Also, this is a 3d rendering before the labels actually went to print, if you notice on Growth Factor, the Arasyn™ trademark isn't on there either but it's on the actual bottle on shelves.

(p.s. this is "Driven", not PWO Frenzy)
 
jarrellt67 said:
Thank you. This isn't meant to be an attack on the product or anything. I just really thought that was how ingredients were supposed to be listed in proprietary blends. I've often used that understanding to estimate ingredient dosages in a blend when the dosage for one of the items (like caffeine) is provided...based on its position in the blend label. Therefore, I would definitely like to know if my understanding of proprietary blend labeling is incorrect.
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Not an attack at all, that's why we're here. The design team makes mistakes all the time! If I'm incorrect, it's something that will be fixed immediately of course.
 
MenaceNutra said:
Not an attack at all, that's why we're here. The design team makes mistakes all the time! If I'm incorrect, it's something that will be fixed immediately of course.
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Nice! Its good to see a company willing to accept feedback.

As you can see, the workout population, especially the forum people like us, can be quite fierce. We seem to pick out every flaw, and shoot it down. I realize menace as a newer company, so I am sure there is a growing period. Like the place I work, we emphasize continual improvement every day. I went up to an engineer one day with an idea on improving a design, and he actually liked it, and now it's getting used a ton.

I think as long as you keep an open mind, you can achieve greater limits.

And as soon as some of these logs start rolling (mine included) let the results speak for themselves.
 
jarrellt67 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't ingredients on a panel supposed to be listed from highest amount to lowest? If so, how can l-tyrosine be listed before caffeine in the 550 mg driven stim complex if 375 mg of that is caffeine? If the caffeine amount listed is correct, then only 175 mg remains for everything else in that blend.
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Jip can get it big law suit over stuff like this , good eye man
 
T-Bone said:
Ingredients should be listed by weight from the most to the least. That is an FDA rule though and I don't believe supplement companies are bound by it.
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Son of a $#@%&! If that's true, then how am I supposed to crack the code of these proprietary blends?
 
T-Bone said:
Ingredients should be listed by weight from the most to the least. That is an FDA rule though and I don't believe supplement companies are bound by it.
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Any nutritional label follows the same rules , like they also cant make claims that it will cure a disease or something like that , they must also list sodium, calories, cals from fat etc,,,
 
Taken from FDA.gov

How must I list proprietary blends?

You must identify proprietary blends by use of the term "Proprietary Blend" or an appropriately descriptive term or fanciful name. On the same line, you must list the total weight of all "other dietary ingredients" contained in the blend. Indented underneath the name of the blend, you must list the "other dietary ingredients" in the blend, either in a column or linear fashion, in descending order of predominance by weight. These ingredients should be followed by a symbol referring to the footnote "Daily Value Not Established." Dietary ingredients having RDIs or DRVs must be listed separately and the individual weights declared.

21 CFR 101.36(b)(2) and (c)

Only rule I seen in reference to proprietary blend.
 
For those with a low stim tolerance (like me), one scoop of high volume with a scoop of dr. jekyll is pretty awesome. I really want to try high volume stacked with focus xt next. That seems like it would be a great pump/nootropic stack.
 
I like all of the above. Stim & Pump....loves me a good pump!
 
The Solution said:
Core Fury is a pretty good formula with Noots + Agmatine for pumps.
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I've never gotten a good pump from agmatine and I've tried every dosage possible pre workout: from 250mg all the way to 2grams. Nada. I just stick to nitrates if I'm going DIY. I like it as an anxiolytic, though.
 
The Engineer said:
I've never gotten a good pump from agmatine and I've tried every dosage possible pre workout: from 250mg all the way to 2grams. Nada. I just stick to nitrates if I'm going DIY. I like it as an anxiolytic, though.
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L-citrulline works good for me ,, but it is said. That caffein will interfere with a ''pump'' product because it causes vasoconstriction
 
jaces said:
L-citrulline works good for me ,, but it is said. That caffein will interfere with a ''pump'' product because it causes vasoconstriction
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It's my understanding that caffeine is a vasodilator in skeletal muscle tissue, especially during exercise.
 
jaces said:
L-citrulline works good for me ,, but it is said. That caffein will interfere with a ''pump'' product because it causes vasoconstriction
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What he said below:

jimbuick said:
It's my understanding that caffeine is a vasodilator in skeletal muscle tissue, especially during exercise.
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It won't cause issues.
 
This is were I get a little confused , they say that its normaly avasoconstrictor. , but when you exercise intensly it becomes a vasodilator,, but intens exercise causes vasodilation so isnt it the exercise and not the caffein that is causing the vasodilation?
 
koi1214 said:
Try VPX White Heat and let me know how it works:yikes:.
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yeah white heat is some powerful stuff for sure. 400mg of caffeine, amp, y=intense.
 
jaces said:
This is were I get a little confused , they say that its normaly avasoconstrictor. , but when you exercise intensly it becomes a vasodilator,, but intens exercise causes vasodilation so isnt it the exercise and not the caffein that is causing the vasodilation?
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No. It's a vasodilator in skeletal muscle, it's a vasoconstrictor in brain tissue
 
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