best nutrient re-partitioner

crazyfool405 said:
Comparison of the glucose-lowering properties of vanadyl sulfate and bis(maltolato)oxovanadium(IV) following acute and chronic administration.
Yuen VG, Orvig C, McNeill JH.

Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada.

Abstract
Numerous studies, both in vitro and in vivo, have demonstrated the insulin-mimetic properties of vanadium. Chronic oral administration of inorganic and organic compounds of both vanadium(IV) and vanadium(V) reduced plasma glucose levels and restored plasma lipid levels in streptozotocin-diabetic rats. We investigated the acute effects of both vanadyl sulfate and bis(maltolato)oxovanadium(IV) (BMOV), an organic vanadium compound, on plasma glucose levels by several routes of administration. Previous studies have shown that chronic administration of vanadyl sulfate has resulted in a sustained euglycemia following withdrawal of the drug. This effect was not observed following the chronic administration of BMOV; therefore, we investigated the effect of increasing the concentration of BMOV on the production of a sustained euglycemic response. An acute plasma glucose lowering effect was obtained with both vanadyl sulfate and BMOV when administered as a single dose by either oral gavage or intraperitoneal injection. In those animals that responded to vanadium treatment, plasma glucose levels were within the normal range within 2 to 6 h when given by i.p. injection or within 4 to 8 h when given by oral gavage. BMOV-treated rats that responded to treatment maintained the euglycemic effect for extended periods, ranging from 1 to 14 weeks following administration. However, vanadyl sulfate treated rats reverted to hyperglycemia within 12 to 24 h, depending on the route of administration. Intravenous administration of BMOV was effective in lowering plasma glucose levels only when administered by continuous infusion. An oral dose-response curve showed that BMOV was 2 to 3 times as potent as vanadyl sulfate. This difference in potency was observed with both oral and intraperitoneal administration, which suggests that the increase in potency with BMOV cannot be totally attributed to increased gastrointestinal absorption. Organic chelation of vanadium may facilitate uptake into vanadium-sensitive tissues. Chronic oral administration of higher concentrations of BMOV did not result in a sustained reduction in plasma glucose following withdrawal of the drug. All diabetic rats eventually responded to increased concentrations of BMOV with a restoration of plasma glucose levels to normal values; however, reversion to the hyperglycemic state occurred within 2 days of withdrawal of treatment. Chronic oral administration of BMOV did not produce a sustained euglycemic effect following withdrawal, but acute administration of the compound by either oral gavage or intraperitoneal injection did produce a long-term reduction in plasma glucose levels. Rats treated chronically with vanadyl sulfate remained euglycemic even after the drug was withdrawn. However, acute treatment produced only a transient euglycemia.


What you are doing with the orgovanadium is increasing bioavailability in vanadium sensitive tissues, as well as increasing potency, 20mg BMOV is ~50mg VS. VS is poorly absorbed however effective even while sustaining greater insulin sensitivity 2 weeks after cessation, the same was not shown for BMOV.

Thats why VS was chosen over BMOV. People cycle off supplements, and want partioning effects to remain.

Insulin sensitivity from VS is for up to 2 weeks post cessation, and Garcinia is up to 22 days until weight regain showed in a few studies.
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Here's my dirty little secret... I am currently using VS. Ha, I am as mentioned in my initial post here, I am a true fanatic and slave for all things research and how it can be applied to this unique and often confusing ambition of muscle attainment we all engage in. During my time here on Anabolic Minds over the last week, some of the original concerns I had about VS supplementation began to be brought back to light. If I was forced to make a personal judgment call right now at this very moment, I would say VS does have some very interesting and useful intrinsic values, but when I run out of the current bottles I have been using, I will not be buying any more until I can seek out and find a more definitive study that focuses on trained males and is peer reviewed and free from reproach (meaning the CEO of Optimum didn't pay for it).

I really appreciate your input, and I am in no way laying my foot down and trying to claim any of these products ineffective by any stretch of the imagination. I am not a believer in absolutes, meaning I rarely identify an issue or facet of life, athletics, theory, science etc that is 100% unchanging and immovable for all time; plus, I have only ever tried Glycobol, at least out of the current circle of GDAs that is.

Best of luck with your product... I have utmost respect for someone who goes out on a very shaky limb and begins an enterprise in these times and is bold enough to work for themselves. I am only one out of millions of potential customers, and from my point of view if I am not already sold on an item's totality of ingredients taking dosage into account, I can no longer justify buying bottles of that product in order to experiment on myself in a vain and over zealous effort to earn another ounce of muscle in the process (this was my entire MO when I was younger).
 
I know afew people who are loving this product laitly.
havent tryed it myself thow.

sounds interesting to me.
 
Kristofer68SS said:
Okay, your insurance picks up the rest of the cyp cost and/or you have a dr script. That doesnt count and you know it.

Like i said, your determining value based on a sticker price and not experience.

My attempts at logical reasoning are futile.

Have a nice day bigt.

lol
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reasoning-your kind of reasoning is why prices are so damned high.
if we stopped paying stupid prices for things the price would drop-geez.
it's simple freakin economics you should have learned in grade school. my experience tells me no supp is worth $54!!!
 
BigT you know I love you brother but you can't compare test c to Need2Slin LMAO, they work differently and have different purposes. I agree with you the feeling of high testosterone is GREAT, heck, I have been blessed with an OUTSTANDING endocrine system and am always in a great mood due to it, thank God all the time. Need2Slin has a couple benefits that other nutrient partritoners do not, same goes with recompadrol. I know SlinShot is looking real good, so I will be trying it real soon. Just consider this Need2Slin can last you 90 days if you used once a day and 45 days if used pre and post workout, that is not a bad deal if you really think about it. Anyways testosterone rocks, long live testosterone LOL!
 
andrew732 said:
BigT you know I love you brother but you can't compare test c to Need2Slin LMAO, they work differently and have different purposes. I agree with you the feeling of high testosterone is GREAT, heck, I have been blessed with an OUTSTANDING endocrine system and am always in a great mood due to it, thank God all the time. Need2Slin has a couple benefits that other nutrient partritoners do not, same goes with recompadrol. I know SlinShot is looking real good, so I will be trying it real soon. Just consider this Need2Slin can last you 90 days if you used once a day and 45 days if used pre and post workout, that is not a bad deal if you really think about it. Anyways testosterone rocks, long live testosterone LOL!
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I have been using n2slin only pre and post workout, and still getting some great results that way and able to diet on a much higher carb intake then i used to.

The price may seem high bigT, but when you factor in FREE shipping, plus 15% discount code, AND the fact that all need2's product are 100% money back guarantee if you aren't satisfied you can't really go wrong! :)
 
andrew732 said:
BigT you know I love you brother but you can't compare test c to Need2Slin LMAO, they work differently and have different purposes. I agree with you the feeling of high testosterone is GREAT, heck, I have been blessed with an OUTSTANDING endocrine system and am always in a great mood due to it, thank God all the time. Need2Slin has a couple benefits that other nutrient partritoners do not, same goes with recompadrol. I know SlinShot is looking real good, so I will be trying it real soon. Just consider this Need2Slin can last you 90 days if you used once a day and 45 days if used pre and post workout, that is not a bad deal if you really think about it. Anyways testosterone rocks, long live testosterone LOL!
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test cyp was a bad analogy, lol. i was just talking about value for the dollar-$8 for 10ml test cyp is hard to beat!!!


andrew, from my experience NO natural supp gives results that is worth a $54 price tag. if other company's see enough people willing to fork over that much money for a supplement what do you think they will do??? supplements are expensive enough already!!!!
 
thebigt said:
test cyp was a bad analogy, lol. i was just talking about value for the dollar-$8 for 10ml test cyp is hard to beat!!!


andrew, from my experience NO natural supp gives results that is worth a $54 price tag. if other company's see enough people willing to fork over that much money for a supplement what do you think they will do??? supplements are expensive enough already!!!!
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I agree with you and see what you're trying to say. The price tag is important when buying any supplement. You have to think about the value. What are you getting in return for you investment? Is it comparable? It is worth the asking price? If not, are there better options? The companies that give us those "better" deals or greater value will reap the benefits of it, such as my continued patronage. If a supplement is good but too steap of an investment, then I will find something else that will do the same or similar thing for a more cost effective value.

In addition to that, it only costs a few bucks to make a supplement so the rest of the money goes to the supp. company for a nice profit. Granted, some of that goes towards marketing, labeling, bottles, packing, employees, ect, the return is still typically pretty high. Take Cellucor for example. They put out some decent products BUT they are so expensive I find myself going elsewhere to find just as good (if not better) products that do the same thing.
 
kingjameskjf said:
I agree with you and see what you're trying to say. The price tag is important when buying any supplement. You have to think about the value. What are you getting in return for you investment? Is it comparable? It is worth the asking price? If not, are there better options? The companies that give us those "better" deals or greater value will reap the benefits of it, such as my continued patronage. If a supplement is good but too steap of an investement, then I will find something else that will do the same or similar thing for a more cost effective value.

In addition to that, it only costs a few bucks to make a supplement so the rest of the money goes to the supp. company for a nice profit. Granted, some of that goes towards marketing, labeling, bottles, packing, employees, ect, the return is still typically pretty high. Take Cellucor for example. That put out some decent products BUT they are so expensive I find myself going elsewhere to find just as good (if not better) products that do the same thing.
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you sir, have been repped.
 
crazyfool405 said:
Comparison of the glucose-lowering properties of vanadyl sulfate and bis(maltolato)oxovanadium(IV) following acute and chronic administration.
Yuen VG, Orvig C, McNeill JH.

An acute plasma glucose lowering effect was obtained with both vanadyl sulfate and BMOV when administered as a single dose by either oral gavage or intraperitoneal injection. In those animals that responded to vanadium treatment, plasma glucose levels were within the normal range within 2 to 6 h when given by i.p. injection or within 4 to 8 h when given by oral gavage. BMOV-treated rats that responded to treatment maintained the euglycemic effect for extended periods, ranging from 1 to 14 weeks following administration. However, vanadyl sulfate treated rats reverted to hyperglycemia within 12 to 24 h, depending on the route of administration. Intravenous administration of BMOV was effective in lowering plasma glucose levels only when administered by continuous infusion. An oral dose-response curve showed that BMOV was 2 to 3 times as potent as vanadyl sulfate


What you are doing with the orgovanadium is increasing bioavailability in vanadium sensitive tissues, as well as increasing potency, 20mg BMOV is ~50mg VS. VS is poorly absorbed however effective even while sustaining greater insulin sensitivity 2 weeks after cessation, the same was not shown for BMOV.

Thats why VS was chosen over BMOV. People cycle off supplements, and want partioning effects to remain.

Insulin sensitivity from VS is for up to 2 weeks post cessation, and Garcinia is up to 22 days until weight regain showed in a few studies.
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Hi, I took some time and read through the research results in more detail, and it appears as though the BMOV is actually 2-3x more powerful orally, exibits its effects orally with less gastric distress and better overall bioavailability, and allows for an extended euglycemic effect to last for months after cessation; which in my interpretation is what you are interested in achieving in your supplement. I might be reading this all wrong, but I made the lines bold/red above that allude to the plausible BMOV superiority on both an aggregate basis and a mg/mg basis which might have allowed it to be a more efficacious additive to your capsules while taking up less ingredient volume. Thanks! :)
 
thebigt said:
that might be the case if i were looking to enter contests or trying out for a sports team-but i am just an older guy looking to be in good shape with a decent physique.


i know a porshe 911 is a hell of a car and much better than my ford escort-but my escort gets me every where i need to go-for way less money!!!
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My friend I respect your analogy and thank you for it very much. Also keep in mind that if used within the same dosing of the cheap product will last 120 day!! So all in all its not very expensive. Adding in the discounts and free 2-3 day priority shipping with all orders makes it even better.

But nothing but respect for your words and opinion my friend. It is the porshe 911 of this kind of products. Thanks so much man and I hope to get to talk to you a lot more. You seem like a cool mofo for sure.
 
Andrew in most cheaper products of its kind there is around 500-700mg of product in a dose.
There is the same amount of product in a half dose of need2slin as there is in a full dose of others. So ya if used 1 cap a day ( half dose) it would last 120 days dosing it the same way as others. So for anyone looking for a value

54-15% discount 46- 2-3 days free shipping=42 lets say
42 for 4 months worth

I am sure this is getting deleted and I will end up banned again but might as well say it well i got the chance lolololol
 
Ok, I give up... just give me some Metformin and Humalog! ;)

Has anyone ever experimented with GDAs and Vitargo/WMS/Karbo-Lyn?
 
Anabolic Pump and P-slin are the two capped one's i've used and loved them both, yellow gold is decent but AP is still my favourite for 40-60 carbs if it was 80-100 it'd be P-slin. I DO want to try Glycobol though i like the ingredients and it looks like a good product.
 
Anabolic Pump has worked best for me. Metformin is over-reated IMO. I've used it many times, at many different dosages, pharma grade. Not that great.
 
criticalbench said:
Anabolic Pump has worked best for me. Metformin is over-reated IMO. I've used it many times, at many different dosages, pharma grade. Not that great.
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I have never heard as much conflicting anecdotal reports about anything, as Metformin. Some love it and claim it keeps them lean while eating increased carbs and getting extreme pumps from muscle glycogen loads, and others say it does nothing and even blunts testosterone and will lower overall performance and endurance/energy levels.
 
Punica Granatum Extract

Active Ingredient : Ellagic Acid 20%, Ellagic Acid 40% & Tannins 25%

Common Name : Pomegranate

Chemical Constituents and Components : Main chemical constitutes are punicalagin, ellagic acid, luteolin, quercetin, kaempferol, ellagitannins, anthocyanins (delphinidin, cyanidin, and pelargonidin) and EA-glycosides

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR)-gamma activators are widely used in the treatment of type 2 diabetes because they improve the sensitivity of insulin receptors.

Invalid Link Removed
 
MAxximal said:
Punica Granatum Extract

Active Ingredient : Ellagic Acid 20%, Ellagic Acid 40% & Tannins 25%

Common Name : Pomegranate

Chemical Constituents and Components : Main chemical constitutes are punicalagin, ellagic acid, luteolin, quercetin, kaempferol, ellagitannins, anthocyanins (delphinidin, cyanidin, and pelargonidin) and EA-glycosides

Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor (PPAR)-gamma activators are widely used in the treatment of type 2 diabetes because they improve the sensitivity of insulin receptors.

Invalid Link Removed
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I am a fan of Pom extract, but remember reading almost 80% of it was deactivated and disposed of in the gut before reaching the blood stream? Poor oral bio-availability is why I have strayed from incorporating it, but I would love to hear more research on it. What was the overall observed change in insulin sensitivity and how did that translate into heightened blood glucose storage or efficiency at repartitioning, and were the studies conducted on trained males? Thanks for the great post :)
 
Outstanding said:
I have never heard as much conflicting anecdotal reports about anything, as Metformin. Some love it and claim it keeps them lean while eating increased carbs and getting extreme pumps from muscle glycogen loads, and others say it does nothing and even blunts testosterone and will lower overall performance and endurance/energy levels.
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It's not horrible, just not as great as many make it out to seem. I prefer anabolic pump all day, pslin pre-workout, and the best nutrient partitioning combo of igf+slin.

Metformin has its place, it keeps me in ketosis easy during contest prep, but when bulking, i'd much prefer ap. Gluco, I cant eat anything, no appetite.
 
criticalbench said:
It's not horrible, just not as great as many make it out to seem. I prefer anabolic pump all day, pslin pre-workout, and the best nutrient partitioning combo of igf+slin.

Metformin has its place, it keeps me in ketosis easy during contest prep, but when bulking, i'd much prefer ap. Gluco, I cant eat anything, no appetite.
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I hate having my appetite supressed... it is VERY useful and welcomed while dieting, but for some reason I just never like the feeling I experience when I am disinclined to eat - especially in the off season.

I would love to give IGF + Insulin a 'shot' but due to cost and the necessitated multiple injections on a daily basis, I fear unless I receive a massive promotion at work, this will not be blipping on my radar anytime soon :(


PS: I took my first serving of Slin Sane this morning upon waking, giving it enough time to activate according to label directions as I prepared breakfast, which ironically also served as my pre-workout meal (which is rare for me) so I was able to truly take the first dosage perfectly as prescribed by the label. The workout was very productive, although strength was extremely low, but I accredit most of that to the fact I almost never workout in the morning or after only one meal for that matter so I was doing a very demanding intense workout in a hypocaloric condition. The pumps were very noticeable and full, but I also dosed with Glycobol in conjunction with Slin Sane this morning as well - and I must report back that the combination seemed to be VERY solid and I look forward to the results moving forward :)
 
Speaking of slin sane, didnt read back since I last posted, but, Its on sale 10.99 a bottle on nutra...I used two bottles previously and people told me I was losing weight, and that was before I started hitting the gym serious, just doin pull ups and chin ups at home with no cardio and dumbell work outs, and my diet was not even that on point. Now I am hitting the gym and lifting hard and I cant wait to see what affect this will have. Just got 3 bottles.
 
Outstanding said:
Hi, I took some time and read through the research results in more detail, and it appears as though the BMOV is actually 2-3x more powerful orally, exibits its effects orally with less gastric distress and better overall bioavailability, and allows for an extended euglycemic effect to last for months after cessation; which in my interpretation is what you are interested in achieving in your supplement. I might be reading this all wrong, but I made the lines bold/red above that allude to the plausible BMOV superiority on both an aggregate basis and a mg/mg basis which might have allowed it to be a more efficacious additive to your capsules while taking up less ingredient volume. Thanks! :)
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i see what your saying but you may have missed the point where absorbtion into tissues are much greater with bmov ( i think i posted that study here), and with vanadium you want to limit that tissue absorbtion while still getting effects... VS is excreted easier, yet still exerts its effects post cessation just like BMOV

plus since better bioavialability i wouldnt be surprised to see 20-30mg BMOV per product which is equvelent to 50-75mg vanadyl sulfate which when vs is administered in doses higher then 75mg then you see gastric problems.


so on top of being equvilent to the VS its absorbed even more, which gives much more tissue saturation (bones, kidney, ect)
 
Intravenous administration of BMOV was effective in lowering plasma glucose levels only when administered by continuous infusion. An oral dose-response curve showed that BMOV was 2 to 3 times as potent as vanadyl sulfate. This difference in potency was observed with both oral and intraperitoneal administration, which suggests that the increase in potency with BMOV cannot be totally attributed to increased gastrointestinal absorption. Organic chelation of vanadium may facilitate uptake into vanadium-sensitive tissues. Chronic oral administration of higher concentrations of BMOV did not result in a sustained reduction in plasma glucose following withdrawal of the drug

Chronic oral administration of BMOV did not produce a sustained euglycemic effect following withdrawal, but acute administration of the compound by either oral gavage or intraperitoneal injection did produce a long-term reduction in plasma glucose levels. Rats treated chronically with vanadyl sulfate remained euglycemic even after the drug was withdrawn

this is the few things you missed.
 
Thanks guys, that was very helpful and cleared a lot up for me. Looks like they both have strengths and weaknesses, but if trying to avoid tissue uptake to decrease possible sides and toxicity, VS does seem to be the best choice. :)
 
sluggy said:
Updates appreciated!
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Looks like we're both requesting updates ;)

To offer my own, since I have been making good use of Glycobol and Slin Sane for quite some time now (months and months with Glycobol, and nearly a full month with Slin Sane at this point) I can confidently say I believe the most dramatic and beneficial effects of these supplements comes when the entire nutritional strategy is planned and executed with extreme prejudice.

Dosing with one/both of the GDAs prior to breakfast, pre-workout, and post-workout has proved to be a valuable addition overall, and although I am still unsure whether or not the results justify the $40 a bottle necessary expenditure (GB, not SS), I can say that I have truly felt (and much more importantly, started to see) a difference.

As discussed earlier though, and as any dedicated experienced trainee would already know, these products are not an insurance policy against fat accrual regarding cheat meals or even prolonged hyper-carbohydrate intake.

I would propose that anyone using or contemplating the use of these or other more recently released GDAs would keep their nutritional/macro nutrient profile unchanged, and simply add these compounds in for an amplified effect of an already calculated and focused lean mass retention and adipose attenuation POA.
 
Outstanding said:
Looks like we're both requesting updates ;)

To offer my own, since I have been making good use of Glycobol and Slin Sane for quite some time now (months and months with Glycobol, and nearly a full month with Slin Sane at this point) I can confidently say I believe the most dramatic and beneficial effects of these supplements comes when the entire nutritional strategy is planned and executed with extreme prejudice.

Dosing with one/both of the GDAs prior to breakfast, pre-workout, and post-workout has proved to be a valuable addition overall, and although I am still unsure whether or not the results justify the $40 a bottle necessary expenditure (GB, not SS), I can say that I have truly felt (and much more importantly, started to see) a difference.

As discussed earlier though, and as any dedicated experienced trainee would already know, these products are not an insurance policy against fat accrual regarding cheat meals or even prolonged hyper-carbohydrate intake.

I would propose that anyone using or contemplating the use of these or other more recently released GDAs would keep their nutritional/macro nutrient profile unchanged, and simply add these compounds in for an amplified effect of an already calculated and focused lean mass retention and adipose attenuation POA.[/QUOTE]
i agree with that totally. I m now on GB but in the past used Neovar for over 2 months and was convinced that i was adding fat to my waist , just enough to notice a difference but not up a waist size. Taking something like this make you feel "safe" about upping the carbs but through experience thats not the case and come back to your final paragraph which i totally support.
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Outstanding said:
Looks like we're both requesting updates ;)

To offer my own, since I have been making good use of Glycobol and Slin Sane for quite some time now (months and months with Glycobol, and nearly a full month with Slin Sane at this point) I can confidently say I believe the most dramatic and beneficial effects of these supplements comes when the entire nutritional strategy is planned and executed with extreme prejudice.

Dosing with one/both of the GDAs prior to breakfast, pre-workout, and post-workout has proved to be a valuable addition overall, and although I am still unsure whether or not the results justify the $40 a bottle necessary expenditure (GB, not SS), I can say that I have truly felt (and much more importantly, started to see) a difference.

As discussed earlier though, and as any dedicated experienced trainee would already know, these products are not an insurance policy against fat accrual regarding cheat meals or even prolonged hyper-carbohydrate intake.

I would propose that anyone using or contemplating the use of these or other more recently released GDAs would keep their nutritional/macro nutrient profile unchanged, and simply add these compounds in for an amplified effect of an already calculated and focused lean mass retention and adipose attenuation POA.
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Hahaha.. Indeed, this is a very interesting avenue that I've yet to really explore!

Unsurprisingly I too have picked up some Glycobol and Slin-Sane. Though I have yet to start taking either of them, as I'm making slight supplement changes to my regime which will go into effect in the third week of June.
So until then I really have little to report :)

Thanks for your feedback!
 
corsaking said:
i agree with that totally. I m now on GB but in the past used Neovar for over 2 months and was convinced that i was adding fat to my waist , just enough to notice a difference but not up a waist size. Taking something like this make you feel "safe" about upping the carbs but through experience thats not the case and come back to your final paragraph which i totally support.
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Excellent... thanks for the feedback and support. It took a while for me to arrive at this theory and practice, but it is the obvious best approach (at least with regard to my own metabolism and experience). Since I have a metabolism that fights me tooth and nail over every ounce of fat oxidized, adding in GDAs should have been done as a strategic and surgical attempt to shift glucose storage and disposal/assimilation into my favor - rather than increasing overall carbohydrate intake.
 
why isnt the dosage of glycobol dependent on weight .Someone weighing 85 kg takes the same as someone who could be twice the size.

as far as i know neovar dosage is based on weight , are there any others?
 
corsaking said:
why isnt the dosage of glycobol dependent on weight .Someone weighing 85 kg takes the same as someone who could be twice the size.

as far as i know neovar dosage is based on weight , are there any others?
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it should really be dosed on tolerance, effective dose is X amount of mg per day to show positive effects on lipids and blood glucose.

If it goes by weight then you may not get the propper dose, or way to much of the dose you need for it to be effective.
 
crazyfool405 said:
it should really be dosed on tolerance, effective dose is X amount of mg per day to show positive effects on lipids and blood glucose.

If it goes by weight then you may not get the propper dose, or way to much of the dose you need for it to be effective.
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how would you recognise if you were intolerant and what happens if you are taking too much to be effective?

thanks
 
corsaking said:
how would you recognise if you were intolerant and what happens if you are taking too much to be effective?

thanks
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if you were intolerant youd most likely get upset stomach, and diarreah from most supplements, or bloated.

and too much is relative depending on your doses.

for example glut4 tanslocation can only be activated soo much before you reach the point of glycogen saturation then you spiull over to fat cells, which is an issue if you over eat for some people (glut4 also in adipose tissue)

however some supplements that contain minerals like vanadyl, or BPOV/BMOV they can cause toxicity (human diabteic studies showed no toxic effect of VS in up to 300mg for 6 weeks ). Good news is VS is excreted MUCH more readily and is still able to exert its effects. Bad news is the organic salts build up in vanadium sensitive tissues much easier and are more poten (20mg BMOV = 50mg VS approximatly) so it may be easier to cause toxicity issues.

But a way to combat that is with a chelator, maybe something like vitamin C, salt, calcium, or even HCA which i believe acts like one to help diminish sides from toxic effects of vanadium in high doses.

hope this helps.
 
crazyfool405 said:
if you were intolerant youd most likely get upset stomach, and diarreah from most supplements, or bloated.

and too much is relative depending on your doses.

for example glut4 tanslocation can only be activated soo much before you reach the point of glycogen saturation then you spiull over to fat cells, which is an issue if you over eat for some people (glut4 also in adipose tissue)

however some supplements that contain minerals like vanadyl, or BPOV/BMOV they can cause toxicity (human diabteic studies showed no toxic effect of VS in up to 300mg for 6 weeks ). Good news is VS is excreted MUCH more readily and is still able to exert its effects. Bad news is the organic salts build up in vanadium sensitive tissues much easier and are more poten (20mg BMOV = 50mg VS approximatly) so it may be easier to cause toxicity issues.

But a way to combat that is with a chelator, maybe something like vitamin C, salt, calcium, or even HCA which i believe acts like one to help diminish sides from toxic effects of vanadium in high doses.

hope this helps.
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yes thanks - ive decided to reduce dose to 1 , am and pm or pre workout/post workout.

ive ran the full dose for about half the tub -in the hope i can reduce toxicity , if i have some , the rest will be dosed as above.

I am sceptical about these type of supps but based on reviews decided to give it a go.
the text in bold could explain why some get fatter around the waist on this type of supplement.

Maybe the answer is to keep it more simple and use something like chromium piclinate?
 
corsaking said:
yes thanks - ive decided to reduce dose to 1 , am and pm or pre workout/post workout.

ive ran the full dose for about half the tub -in the hope i can reduce toxicity , if i have some , the rest will be dosed as above.

I am sceptical about these type of supps but based on reviews decided to give it a go.
the text in bold could explain why some get fatter around the waist on this type of supplement.

Maybe the answer is to keep it more simple and use something like chromium piclinate?
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keeping it simple is good however theres a reason the ingredients were put together

Berberine is a PPARa/y agonist/antagonist which increases fat burning and reduces adipocyte diferentiation.

there should be zero tox issues with Glycobol OR Recompadrol. Ive ran both for extended periods of time at high doses.

they both work great, im partial to recompadrol because its mine and it just works better then anything else ive used when bulking or cutting. i actually dont even use fat burner anymore when cutting. just recompadrol.
 
Crazy, what advantage do you find to running high doses? I eat more than enough carbs to take atleast 6 servings a day, not sure if it's the way to go though.
 
Killerkanadia said:
Crazy, what advantage do you find to running high doses? I eat more than enough carbs to take atleast 6 servings a day, not sure if it's the way to go though.
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which partioner are you taking they all work a tad differently

if your gaining keep it higher, if your cutting keep it lower but just enough to stimulate lipolysis.


it also really depends on how much over maintence your eating, the calories your eating, and ther amount of supplement you can stomach.

for bulking i usually eat 3 carb meals so i do 3 (6 caps) servings recompadrol or 6 caps glycobol. for cutting i just take 1 per meal.
 
crazyfool405 said:
which partioner are you taking they all work a tad differently

if your gaining keep it higher, if your cutting keep it lower but just enough to stimulate lipolysis.


it also really depends on how much over maintence your eating, the calories your eating, and ther amount of supplement you can stomach.

for bulking i usually eat 3 carb meals so i do 3 (6 caps) servings recompadrol or 6 caps glycobol. for cutting i just take 1 per meal.
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Right now i have AP, i have a bottle of recompadrol on the way. I'm just getting into the nutrient partitioners and finding out what might work for me.

I've been attempting a bulk for a while, but have trouble adding weight. I know i have a surplus of calories in my diet, my body just won't seem to add fat. I've been slowly gaining muscle for a long time now, and with that i'm happy.
 
if having trouble gaining weight dont do 2 caps recompadrol per 3 carb meal.

do 1 cap per 3 carb meal and if you arent liking the results up the amount of caps you use.

nutrient repartitioners waste calories, so it important yout bump up your calories to 400+ calories.
 
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