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Best Nootropic For Mood And Happiness

So after flipping through this thread again I think it’s important to mention that re the topic (nootropic for MOOD/HAPPINESS) any compound that increases acetylcholine levels or augments them can lead to worsening of depressive symptoms. I can’t use acetylcholinesterase inhibitors for more than a few days for this reason. Same reason I can’t take super high choline doses or at least not every day without a few days off. I’d say if you want supplements for mood nootropics (which focus on acetylcholine primarily) is not really the way to go.

As far as zembrin someone mentioned, it possibly acts as an ssri and also a PDE4 inhibitor, of which that enzyme is in the brain in emotional centers. But the MOA isn’t super clear, and if you are going to take a compound with ssri properties just take an ssri...they have newer ones out now that can deceased the annoying sides (vortioxetine, vilazodone, also called Trintellix and Viibryd. They have savings cards if you are in the US so you’ll pay no more than $10 per month. And the older ssris are dirt cheap you can get Zoloft 200 daily for like $5 per month. I would suggest anyone who thinks they have depressive symptoms for more than a few weeks to please see a primary care doc or a psychiatrist. I can tell you that after living most of my life on the depressed side, trying to self medicate (no matter how good intentioned you are, and even if it’s with “natural” substances) doesn’t work in the long term.

But for mood tyrosine/l-dopa actually did help me personally along with 5htp, exercise, weight loss if you are obese, consistent sleep. I’d say just try an ssri if you really are depressed. Bupropion can usually get rid of sexual sides from ssris, as can adding higher doses of mirtazapine. There are a lot of Rx psych meds that get a bad wrap from the media but really do help millions of people, myself included.
 
And in terms of cognition there are several antidepressants that only alleviate mood and not the cognitive aspect. But ones that can actually increase cognition, slightly above baseline if you are currently even a little depressed, are Zoloft, mirtazapine (45-60mg dose not lower), trintellix, viibryd, and for some bupropion. There are a few ssris that help mood but may hinder memory formation or mental “speed”...escitalopram is the best for serotonin and depression in general but it can mildly affect memory.
Zoloft actually has some other interesting mechanism, as it moderately increases dopamine and is also a sigma-1 agonist I believe{just checked, Zoloft is actually an ANTAGONIST... but they don’t know if that does anything for Zolofts MOA or it’s relevant at those doses} which is a “new” receptor they are focusing on in clinical trials, possibly being part of the MOA from drugs like ketamine and dextromethorphan and why they can relieve depression in days not weeks in depressed patients that fail standard therapies.
 
I think that in terms of overall brain health, mental health, cognitive function, mood and energy, Evomuses' Clear Edge seems like the only all inclusive supplement/way to go. It has the non-stim bonus too which means you could take it every day.
 
Looks like s good formulation. Though I don’t know why they put in benfotiamine. It’s a thiamine derivative that doesn’t readily cross the bbb like sulbutiamine does. Maybe it can give your body some benefit that can be indirectly felt cognitively. Idk.
 
From Invalid Link Removed

“Our results show that, though benfotiamine strongly increases thiamine levels in blood and liver, it has no significant effect in the brain. This would explain why beneficial effects of benfotiamine have only been observed in peripheral tissues, while sulbutiamine, a lipid-soluble thiamine disulfide derivative, that increases thiamine derivatives in the brain as well as in cultured cells, acts as a central nervous system drug.”
 
bigdavid said:
Looks like s good formulation. Though I don’t know why they put in benfotiamine. It’s a thiamine derivative that doesn’t readily cross the bbb like sulbutiamine does. Maybe it can give your body some benefit that can be indirectly felt cognitively. Idk.
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dsade....could use your big brain to assist us with this question regarding Clear Edge
 
carguy123 said:
dsade....could use your big brain to assist us with this question regarding Clear Edge
Click to expand...

The benfotiamine was included to increase both mind/muscle connection as well as making the body experience itself as a whole organism. It has a potent effect on the body nerves and works with the mental effects of the sulbutiamine to bring the whole experience into "the zone". It's a more holistic approach than the more simple nootropic formulas. David was correct.
 
Slims said:
What is the best single ingredient nootropic or nootropic supplement to enhance mood and to help increase the feeling of happiness?

Reps For Replies.

Thank You
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Kratom, CBD, Phenibut, PEA and it's analogs, all can rise my mood potently.
 
I can't post links seeing as my post count is under 100 but the largest nootropics survey has been compiled at darktka dot github dot io. You can check under the mood section and you can read the Reddit thread on r/Nootropics for comments and insight (sort by top of the year).

I can attest to LSD microdosing, tianeptine sodium, phenibut, N-Acetyl Semax/Selank and NSI-189 personally.
 
bigdavid said:
So after flipping through this thread again I think it’s important to mention that re the topic (nootropic for MOOD/HAPPINESS) any compound that increases acetylcholine levels or augments them can lead to worsening of depressive symptoms. I can’t use acetylcholinesterase inhibitors for more than a few days for this reason. Same reason I can’t take super high choline doses or at least not every day without a few days off. I’d say if you want supplements for mood nootropics (which focus on acetylcholine primarily) is not really the way to go.

As far as zembrin someone mentioned, it possibly acts as an ssri and also a PDE4 inhibitor, of which that enzyme is in the brain in emotional centers. But the MOA isn’t super clear, and if you are going to take a compound with ssri properties just take an ssri...they have newer ones out now that can deceased the annoying sides (vortioxetine, vilazodone, also called Trintellix and Viibryd. They have savings cards if you are in the US so you’ll pay no more than $10 per month. And the older ssris are dirt cheap you can get Zoloft 200 daily for like $5 per month. I would suggest anyone who thinks they have depressive symptoms for more than a few weeks to please see a primary care doc or a psychiatrist. I can tell you that after living most of my life on the depressed side, trying to self medicate (no matter how good intentioned you are, and even if it’s with “natural” substances) doesn’t work in the long term.

But for mood tyrosine/l-dopa actually did help me personally along with 5htp, exercise, weight loss if you are obese, consistent sleep. I’d say just try an ssri if you really are depressed. Bupropion can usually get rid of sexual sides from ssris, as can adding higher doses of mirtazapine. There are a lot of Rx psych meds that get a bad wrap from the media but really do help millions of people, myself included.
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dsade does clear edge lead to depression issues with daily use or no?

Anyone else chime in as well thanks!!
 
ZachH said:
dsade does clear edge lead to depression issues with daily use or no?

Anyone else chime in as well thanks!!
Click to expand...

You can’t make the claim that cholinergics will cause depression in everyone. That is clearly not the case and not my intention for that comment. However if someone has a previous history of depression or is susceptible then they can get worse or have a recurrence with cholinergics compounds. However on the individual level It’s impossible to say who will be affected until they try it themselves or know from pervious experience how they respond. So I’m not dsade but I can tell you that he cannot say it won’t and can’t say it will. Your question assumes that there is a clear binary answer but that’s not applicable to this issue unfortunately.
 
bigdavid said:
You can’t make the claim that cholinergics will cause depression in everyone. That is clearly not the case and not my intention for that comment. However if someone has a previous history of depression or is susceptible then they can get worse or have a recurrence with cholinergics compounds. However on the individual level It’s impossible to say who will be affected until they try it themselves or know from pervious experience how they respond. So I’m not dsade but I can tell you that he cannot say it won’t and can’t say it will. Your question assumes that there is a clear binary answer but that’s not applicable to this issue unfortunately.
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This. For people with a history of depression and/or medical conditions, all supplements should really think all supplement use through and talk with their doctors. That said, for “healthy subjects,” people with no history of depression or related issues, studies show that choline and cholinergics are quite well tolerated, and depressions is not a very common adverse effect. That’s not to say it isn’t possible, but it is most definitely inaccurate to say that they “will” or even “probably will” cause depression, not saying that you were saying that of course.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
This. For people with a history of depression and/or medical conditions, all supplements should really think all supplement use through and talk with their doctors. That said, for “healthy subjects,” people with no history of depression or related issues, studies show that choline and cholinergics are quite well tolerated, and depressions is not a very common adverse effect. That’s not to say it isn’t possible, but it is most definitely inaccurate to say that they “will” or even “probably will” cause depression, not saying that you were saying that of course.
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I was only responding to the OP who said he wanted a supplement to feel better. Many times people with depression don’t out and say it since there is still stigma to mental illness. But to say that a nootropic based on cholinergic activity will increase ones mood is silly. Tolerate, and cause no worsening of mood, yes. But an increase in mood, not so much. Also many people don’t know they are at risk because their first episode hasn’t happened yet. And a cholinergic compound added to any stressors can cause a first episode for someone predisposed. There is ample evidence that cholinergics worsen depression in animal models and in humans. I’m not saying it will cause depression, in everyone or in anyone specific, but I felt this point was appropriate for the thread since it is based on improving mood, not improving cognition while not affecting mood.
 
ZachH said:
dsade does clear edge lead to depression issues with daily use or no?

Anyone else chime in as well thanks!!
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I have been using it for the most part M-F (4 caps AM) since the beta bottles where released and never had any issues personally. Freaking love this stuff
 
carguy123 said:
I have been using it for the most part M-F (4 caps AM) since the beta bottles where released and never had any issues personally. Freaking love this stuff
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Ive been sitting on a bottle for a few months. Just popped my first 4 pills about 1.5 hrs ago! Another 4 going down around 1 or 2 in the afternoon. We will see how my first day goes on it!
 
ZachH said:
Ive been sitting on a bottle for a few months. Just popped my first 4 pills about 1.5 hrs ago! Another 4 going down around 1 or 2 in the afternoon. We will see how my first day goes on it!
Click to expand...

Very nice, interested to hear your feedback.
 
I find that a combination of Gaba and Phenibut plus lowering homocystine and cortisol really reduces anxiety for me. Anxiety leads to depression and loss of joy, so for me this is a winning combination.
 
InItForGainz said:
Anybody have any success with 5-HTP?
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I’ve found it to be helpful for mild anxiety and if you are taking tyrosine or l-dopa chronically it’s good to add it in also. Honestly it depends on your physiology and diet. If you aren’t getting in enough amino acid precursors of serotonin or are under major stress for long periods of time your cns serotonin turnover will be altered. It’s worth a shot but don’t expect any miracles from 5htp. If anything it would just help maintain serotonin levels during times of stress or dopamine excess
 
InItForGainz said:
Anybody have any success with 5-HTP?
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bigdavid said:
I’ve found it to be helpful for mild anxiety and if you are taking tyrosine or l-dopa chronically it’s good to add it in also. Honestly it depends on your physiology and diet. If you aren’t getting in enough amino acid precursors of serotonin or are under major stress for long periods of time your cns serotonin turnover will be altered. It’s worth a shot but don’t expect any miracles from 5htp. If anything it would just help maintain serotonin levels during times of stress or dopamine excess
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This is all true...

From personal experience, if I take it solo during the day I get lethargic and quite confused very easily.

If I take it at night, it keeps me awake. If it is part of a blend I do tolerate it much better though...such as Dream-N-Grow for example.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
This. For people with a history of depression and/or medical conditions, all supplements should really think all supplement use through and talk with their doctors. That said, for “healthy subjects,” people with no history of depression or related issues, studies show that choline and cholinergics are quite well tolerated, and depressions is not a very common adverse effect. That’s not to say it isn’t possible, but it is most definitely inaccurate to say that they “will” or even “probably will” cause depression, not saying that you were saying that of course.
Click to expand...

for sure. Those with clinical depression often have low dopaminergic function, and often with excessive acetylcholine, whether naturally or through supplementation it can lower dopamine in the short-term. There is a reason why off-label use of modafinil and psychostimulants are used in treatment-resistant depression.

At the end of the day if one feels like they've been depressed for awhile, they need to see their doctor and get a referral to a psychiatrist and see if they get diagnosed with MDD or dysthmia and stop the self-medication crap. CBT + medication can do wonders. SSRIs such as sertraline do work for some people but there are other options - TCA's like nortriptyline or even MAO-I like tranylcypromine.

Of course I would always recommend bloodwork as well. Testosterone is a modulator of GABA-A receptors and inhibits 5-HT3 receptors centrally - meta-analysis showed significant positive impact of test. on mood and is often used as an augmentation strategy w/ SSRIs. Estrogen / progesterone could be looked at too - particularly useful if blood levels are too low but this is usually just for post-menopausal women. Thyroid of course is especially important as they modulate adrenergic receptor function, is a metabolic enhancer and make norepinephrine more effective. Free thyroid hormone concentrations are associated with depression severity; thus T3 to treat subclinical hypothyroidism can be useful.
 
dsade love the product and the profile is awesome but I have a question. What does isatin do? I've done a ton a research trying to figure that out and I'm not sure. I've only found on study one it that relevant.

Abstract

(Indoledione 2,3) isatin is an endogenous indole found both in mammalian brain and peripheral tissues. Isatin concentration in blood can exceed 1 microM and tissue concentrations vary from < 0.1 to 10 microM. Its level in the brain and periphery is increased by stress. Isatin has a wide spectrum of behavioural and metabolic effects. It is anxiogenic at lower doses and sedative at higher doses. Its most potent known in vitro actions are as an antagonist of atrial natriuretic peptide (ANP) function and NO signaling. In this review, we discuss isatin and stress in animal models, the few human studies, and also what it is known to date about the molecular mechanisms of its action. We suggest the possibility that isatin and its analogues may be interesting new pharmacological agents; Isatin antagonists may be anxiolytic, and isatin agonists may activate the HPA axis.
 
Isatin is an MAO-i

Neurotoxicology. 2004 Jan;25(1-2):205-13.
Comparative study of the effects of isatin, an endogenous MAO-inhibitor, and selegiline on bradykinesia and dopamine levels in a rat model of Parkinson's disease induced by the Japanese encephalitis virus.
Hamaue N1, Minami M, Terado M, Hirafuji M, Endo T, Machida M, Hiroshige T, Ogata A, Tashiro K, Saito H, Parvez SH.
Author information
Abstract

We previously reported that exogenously administered isatin, an endogenous monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitor, significantly increased acetylcholine (ACh) and dopamine (DA) levels in the rat striatum. Selegiline [(-)-deprenil] was developed as a MAO-B inhibitor more than 30 years ago and widely used in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. Effects of isatin or selegiline were investigated in Japanese encephalitis virus (JEV)-induced post-encephalitic parkinsonism rats by a pole test for detecting motor activity and by the determination of biogenic amine levels. Motor activity of JEV-induced rats receiving isatin (100 mg/kg per day for 1 week, i.p.) or selegiline (0.2 mg/kg per day for 1 week, i.p.) was significantly improved compared with that of untreated JEV-infected rats. Both isatin and selegiline prevented the decrease in striatal DA levels in JEV-rats. The increased turnover of DA (DOPAC/DA) induced by JEV was significantly inhibited by isatin, but not by selegiline. These results suggested that exogenously administered isatin and selegiline can improve JEV-induced parkinsonism by increasing DA concentrations in the striatum.

PMID:
14697895
DOI:
10.1016/S0161-813X(03)00100-1

[Indexed for MEDLINE]
 
I've used all of these at different times.

GABA
Phenibut
5-HTP
Tryptophan
L-Dopa
Stimulants like DMAA
Choline (Lecithin)
Cortisol Blockers
Fish Oil


I find with my current stress level that morning cortisol lowering plus GABA and 5-HTP does the trick. Plus, this change of season doesn't make things easier.

I will use at different times throughout the day almost all of these to increase focus and attention.
 
ZachH said:
Ive been sitting on a bottle for a few months. Just popped my first 4 pills about 1.5 hrs ago! Another 4 going down around 1 or 2 in the afternoon. We will see how my first day goes on it!
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We all still want to hear how it went! I have never tried Clear Edge...
 
Ricky10 said:
We all still want to hear how it went! I have never tried Clear Edge...
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Still trying to figure it out man lol can DEFINITELY tell im taking it. 8 caps a day every day since i posted that and my co worker has asked me multiple times why im so "actuated" and above average performance (im a carpenter) but i dont really put in the conscious effort to be doing anything differently... But for someone else to notice and point it out to me i guess it is making a big difference in the way i do things. Im constantly looking at the "big picture" and thinking of the most efficient way to accomplish my tasks at hand. And then other times at home i dont even intend to have tasks to get done, but i end up getting a million things done that i wouldn't have done before i started taking clear edge. So i guess it gives me an overall acute sense of clarity and motivation, but almost a stimulant like feeling as well. Are there stims in clear edge? Almost get a slightly higher hint of anxiety with this stuff versus just my normal fat burner stimulant supps. (currently taking OL ignite) and backed down the dose of my stims to accomodate for taking clear edge with it since clear edge "gets me going" per say. Excited to see how an entire bottle treats me but like i said you dont really notice the difference until you look back on your day and see how much you accomplished!
 
ZachH said:
Still trying to figure it out man lol can DEFINITELY tell im taking it. 8 caps a day every day since i posted that and my co worker has asked me multiple times why im so "actuated" and above average performance (im a carpenter) but i dont really put in the conscious effort to be doing anything differently... But for someone else to notice and point it out to me i guess it is making a big difference in the way i do things. Im constantly looking at the "big picture" and thinking of the most efficient way to accomplish my tasks at hand. And then other times at home i dont even intend to have tasks to get done, but i end up getting a million things done that i wouldn't have done before i started taking clear edge. So i guess it gives me an overall acute sense of clarity and motivation, but almost a stimulant like feeling as well. Are there stims in clear edge? Almost get a slightly higher hint of anxiety with this stuff versus just my normal fat burner stimulant supps. (currently taking OL ignite) and backed down the dose of my stims to accomodate for taking clear edge with it since clear edge "gets me going" per say. Excited to see how an entire bottle treats me but like i said you dont really notice the difference until you look back on your day and see how much you accomplished!
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I know what you mean, these kind of products can be hard to describe, and even identifying how you are feeling in the first place can be difficult. I also find that the nootropic formulas can hit surprisingly hard for people with high a high stim/fat burner tolerance. They are different ingredients that produce stimulant-like effects in the brain through different means, so it does make sense..

I am currently enjoying Vicaine which is kind of in a category of its own, but it certainly has strong nootropic properties and ingredients..
 
dsade said:
Isatin is an MAO-i

Neurotoxicology. 2004 Jan;25(1-2):205-13.
Comparative study of the effects of isatin, an endogenous MAO-inhibitor, and selegiline on bradykinesia and dopamine levels in a rat model of Parkinson's disease induced by the Japanese encephalitis virus.
Hamaue N1, Minami M, Terado M, Hirafuji M, Endo T, Machida M, Hiroshige T, Ogata A, Tashiro K, Saito H, Parvez SH.
Author information
Abstract

We previously reported that exogenously administered isatin, an endogenous monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitor, significantly increased acetylcholine (ACh) and dopamine (DA) levels in the rat striatum. Selegiline [(-)-deprenil] was developed as a MAO-B inhibitor more than 30 years ago and widely used in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. Effects of isatin or selegiline were investigated in Japanese encephalitis virus (JEV)-induced post-encephalitic parkinsonism rats by a pole test for detecting motor activity and by the determination of biogenic amine levels. Motor activity of JEV-induced rats receiving isatin (100 mg/kg per day for 1 week, i.p.) or selegiline (0.2 mg/kg per day for 1 week, i.p.) was significantly improved compared with that of untreated JEV-infected rats. Both isatin and selegiline prevented the decrease in striatal DA levels in JEV-rats. The increased turnover of DA (DOPAC/DA) induced by JEV was significantly inhibited by isatin, but not by selegiline. These results suggested that exogenously administered isatin and selegiline can improve JEV-induced parkinsonism by increasing DA concentrations in the striatum.

PMID:
14697895
DOI:
10.1016/S0161-813X(03)00100-1

[Indexed for MEDLINE]
Click to expand...
Thanks that a pretty awesome ingredient then :)
 
ZachH said:
Excited to see how an entire bottle treats me but like i said you dont really notice the difference until you look back on your day and see how much you accomplished!
Click to expand...

This last part is absolutely my experience with Clear edge. After awhile of taking it you stop noticing the effects until you come off it for 3-4 days and then its like...why am I having a hard processing things lol. I am a desk jockey (engineer) and in my current role I review data and use this to create documents that we must send into the goberment for compliance. So I am constantly going back and forth between 2 monitors and all kinds of files. Without Clear Edge I am legit 2-3x slower at doing my job. I just cant process things as fast, nor jump between tasks as quickly.
 
Has anyone tried Semax from ceretropic? Seems interesting but would appreciate some first hand accounts of the effects
 
Wildcat528 said:
Has anyone tried Semax from ceretropic? Seems interesting but would appreciate some first hand accounts of the effects
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I have used all 3 of their Semax versions. I put up a review of them on here in the Nootropics section. Basically, I felt it is subtle but effective. I like the NA-Semax the best. It is a bit too pricey to use regularly for me especially since it is subtle IMO. Here is what I got from it:

-better focus
-Slight better productivity throughout the day
-Mild refreshed feeling (could have been placebo)
 
ELROCK said:
I have used all 3 of their Semax versions. I put up a review of them on here in the Nootropics section. Basically, I felt it is subtle but effective. I like the NA-Semax the best. It is a bit too pricey to use regularly for me especially since it is subtle IMO. Here is what I got from it:

-better focus
-Slight better productivity throughout the day
-Mild refreshed feeling (could have been placebo)
Click to expand...

Hey thanks a bunch man I really appreciate that. I'm sure it's in your review but what doses did you try and how did the effects compare from one to another? Thanks for the insight!!
 
ELROCK said:
I have used all 3 of their Semax versions. I put up a review of them on here in the Nootropics section. Basically, I felt it is subtle but effective. I like the NA-Semax the best. It is a bit too pricey to use regularly for me especially since it is subtle IMO. Here is what I got from it:

-better focus
-Slight better productivity throughout the day
-Mild refreshed feeling (could have been placebo)
Click to expand...

Someone could get that from a cup of coffee, to be honest. I'm not sure that is going to make it a successful product.
 
Wildcat528 said:
Hey thanks a bunch man I really appreciate that. I'm sure it's in your review but what doses did you try and how did the effects compare from one to another? Thanks for the insight!!
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2 sprays in each nostril. Try 1 spray in each nostril first and see how it treats you.
 
ELROCK said:
2 sprays in each nostril. Try 1 spray in each nostril first and see how it treats you.
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Thank you so much man, I'll definitely take your advice. I just really don't respond to the other noots so I figure this is worth a try at least.
 
Wildcat528 said:
Thank you so much man, I'll definitely take your advice. I just really don't respond to the other noots so I figure this is worth a try at least.
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Have you tried PRL 8-53 for memory enhancement? It is hands down the best noot for working memory.
 
ELROCK said:
Have you tried PRL 8-53 for memory enhancement? It is hands down the best noot for working memory.
Click to expand...

Can't say I have. Honestly I'm just looking for something to help a tiny bit with social interaction, confidence, mood, and productivity. Any recommendations for that?
 
Wildcat528 said:
Can't say I have. Honestly I'm just looking for something to help a tiny bit with social interaction, confidence, mood, and productivity. Any recommendations for that?
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I️ would love to have all that in one product too lol
1 cap of Vicaine is as close as it comes to meeting all those needs.

PRL-8-53 really only helps with memory and verbal fluency. It stacks well with Semax in my experience.
 
kisaj said:
Someone could get that from a cup of coffee, to be honest. I'm not sure that is going to make it a successful product.
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LOL...I️ guess you are right. I️ love my coffee and if I️ only had to choose one it would be coffee
Honestly, it doesn’t really feel like coffee though. Semax does seem to enhance cognitive ability and can make tasks seem easier (subjectively). Again, that may have just been placebo...shrug.

I️ do like Semax but it’s not something I️ have to have. I️ enjoyed using it but I️ haven’t re-ordered it in 8 months so...
 
cubsfan815 said:
Have you tried NootropiMax yet? It gives me a nice clean mood boost. I have handed out a ton at work and everyone enjoys it. We might have some samples available too.
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I new to nootropics and have one type on way but if u still have some samples left, I'd love to give it a try, atleast I'd have something to compare too??
 
Evlution Nutrition's Focus Mode.
Stim free/low stim noot with a nice open label.

Invalid Link Removed

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Slims said:
Evlution Nutrition's Focus Mode.
Caffeine free noot with a nice open label.

Invalid Link Removed

Thoughts?
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Meh. 200mg of 50% Alpha-GPC is only 100mg Alpha-GPC, which is a pretty low dose. 200mg of NALT is also a very small dose, and, IMO, inferior to l-tyrosine. 100mg of 20% PS is only 20mg, which is also a very small dose. Also, does guarana not have caffeine? I️ read that they can have 2-4.5% caffeine, which is only ~10mg caffeine, but this is an extract, so can have more or less. Do that claim caffeine free?
 
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