best 100% otc PCT

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ato ucf

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been lifting for 3 years pretty steady trying to keep a healthy/clean diet. ive always been in pretty good shape from competitive soccer through highschool and part of college and am looking to put on a little bit more size now that that part of my life is winding down (unfortunately).

im planning a 4 week cycle of ACL's tren extreme. im looking to do a pct completely over the counter if it is at all possible because i hate the way my body responds to clomid. im going to be running the tren extreme at 60/90/90/90.

what i was thinking so far was:

max green synergy
liver support
aPCT by AX (weeks 1-4)
trans resveratrol (weeks 1-4)
i3c (weeks 1-6)
lean extreme (weeks 3-6)
formestane aka ACL's estro extreme (weeks 3-6)

im thinking about adding in drive massfx or another natty test booster if you guys think it would help. im not sure on whether or not to run the formestane in the last 3 weeks or all the way through. i know people who have only taken formestane for their pct on this and kept most of the gains but i want to make sure i have everything on point with this.

any advice, critiques, criticism would be greatly appreciated
 
Tren I would run a SERM. If you looking for complete OTC PCT only try this. I will alos include a link that may help.


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Reversitol weeks 1-4 as directed


Post Cycle Support weeks 3-6 2 caps a.m. and 2 caps p.m.
 
ibe new formex sounds very promising added in with maybe stoked pct assist t911 reversitol dTH ( not all those together you pick and choose what you like)
 
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switch the I3C for some DIM
and go with the reversitol
 
Gotta agree go with the I3C
 
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several different studies.. some from zielig but there are others as well
 
thanks for the input guys

i think estrogen control should be solid with the aPCT, trans or stoked, and i3c, but should i run the formestane (since i already have some on hand) all the way through or just for weeks (3-6)?

do you think i should add in a natty test booster or would the aPCT (or PCS) and stoked be enough to get my balls back?
 
mixedup said:
ibe new formex sounds very promising added in with maybe stoked pct assist t911 reversitol dTH ( not all those together you pick and choose what you like)
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I have heard good things about Formex.
 
Problem said:
There's no 100% OTC PCT.

You are taking a high risk not running a SERM with tren x.
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Have you ever taken Tren-Xtreme? Try not to mistake it for Trenbolone. Although they are similar, the compounds are not the same. Nonetheless, ACL Tren-X has some sideaffects, but all of which can be counter-acted effectively with the right doses and PCT, even OTC.

I'm currently taking the ACL Tren and have had great results, with no gyno, and no serious sideaffects with the exception of (1) episode where I drank a redbull within 30 minutes of taking one of my doses. (Not a good idea)

I've noticed that gyno reports taking Tren are usually from people who either (1) over dosed the product, such as taking more than recommended dosage, or (2) did a full 8 week cycle standalone w/ no other supplements to help fight gyno or liver disfunctions and the like. I'd also add that, given the amazing results this stuff gives, it would be easy for an uninformed user to get carried away and start saying to themselves "but what if I took 4 or 5 a day!?!?" And there you have it = gyno appears, and then the knucklheads dont even plan a PCT and it takes them 6 months to fully recover.

But I opted for a 4 week cycle w/ ACL LIVR to take alongside twice a day to help with liver and blood function. This is to avoid in serious development of sideaffects such as gyno (hence the short 4 week cycle) or bloodpressure spikes. So far it works and I'm on week three.

I plan on using Formex and AI Post Cyle as my PCT which I will start mid-way thru week 4 of my Tren cycle. Then I will slowly ween myself off the Formex and finish out the AI PC over the course of the next month.

For me, the greatest sideaffects for Tren-X are:

- Increased blood pressure (Not too crazy)
- Sometimes an increased heart rate (Also, not too crazy)
- Libido Killer (Everything still functions, just not as easily)

The intent is for the Formex to suppress an estro spike, while increasing test and therefore libido over the first two weeks. Then slowly come off the Formex and probably transition into something like Animal STAK afterwards. I may consider ACL Estro-blocker if I still have higher than normal Estro-levels afterwards although I don't expect this to happen.

The AI Post Cycle is there to restore cardiovascular functions.

But the real key to it all is effectively avoiding gyno and liver failure while retaining at least most of the gains seen on the PH/Steroid. This can be done with even just a moderate amount of research before diving into the steroid world.
 
Tren Xtreme is 19-Norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 dione , which is non-methylated. You don't need to worry too much about liver supps on this.

I'll be running the 19-nor with the 1-T in the Invalid Link Removed with the included PCT and will be taking ancilliaries like Hawthorn, P5P and L-Dopa for the sides. Formex (or other Aromatase Inhibitors) or AI's Post Cycle Support are also good choices for PCT.

I take it you're getting bloodwork done post-cycle to check your E2 like you mentioned?
 
do you think sustain alpha is enough for ptc? i was thinking about buying the xms and running iforce reversitol as ptc and useing s-alpha during the optional to keep libido up.

any opinions?
 
Problem said:
There's no 100% OTC PCT.

You are taking a high risk not running a SERM with tren x.
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Give it a rest, SERM-junkies galore here on AM, I just dont understand, I guess it's just a normal adverse reaction to a new method of PCT.

As I understand, I3C Is a freaking SERM in it's own right, so get off your Nolvadex butt (which isnt exactly 'all-good, non-toxic, without risk' in itself) and atleast give OTC a chance, with substances like Reversatol and I3C it's worth trying IMO

BTW, this is not a personal attack, i'm just tired of all the Nolva-junkies.
 
Steveoph said:
Tren Xtreme is 19-Norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 dione , which is non-methylated. You don't need to worry too much about liver supps on this.

I'll be running the 19-nor with the 1-T in the Invalid Link Removed with the included PCT and will be taking ancilliaries like Hawthorn, P5P and L-Dopa for the sides. Formex (or other Aromatase Inhibitors) or AI's Post Cycle Support are also good choices for PCT.

I take it you're getting bloodwork done post-cycle to check your E2 like you mentioned?
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I agree liver support is not a big concern but watch the BP. The Cycle Support with the hawthorne berry and celery seed extract will help here.:)
 
Steveoph said:
Tren Xtreme is 19-Norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 dione , which is non-methylated. You don't need to worry too much about liver supps on this.

I take it you're getting bloodwork done post-cycle to check your E2 like you mentioned?
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Yes, I intend to get bloodwork done in a timely fashion.

I realize the Tren-X is not a real large issue w/ liver functions, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to be safe. For the most part, MASS Extreme is where the danger with your liver happens. But that's the whole point to 4 week cycle + LIVR + FORMEX + AI Cycle Support. I made up my mind not to run into stupid sides affects that are 100% avoidable with just a little research. As potent as this stuff is, there is no reason for me to abuse it. I can do a very mild and safe cycle with this Tren and STILL see great gains. Anyways, all is well. I had at least a dozen people comment on my gains this weekend. It doesnt make any sense to them because I've always been a hard gainer, and low - n - behold, after the Tren started working its magic, I have put on almost 10lbs of lean mass in two weeks time, and have become more cut than before, especially in the shoulders, neck, chest and arms. This stuff should be like crack to the bodybuilders. Or maybe more like heroine, since its pretty expensive. :laugh:
 
Shuggah said:
Give it a rest, SERM-junkies galore here on AM, I just dont understand, I guess it's just a normal adverse reaction to a new method of PCT.

As I understand, I3C Is a freaking SERM in it's own right, so get off your Nolvadex butt (which isnt exactly 'all-good, non-toxic, without risk' in itself) and atleast give OTC a chance, with substances like Reversatol and I3C it's worth trying IMO

BTW, this is not a personal attack, i'm just tired of all the Nolva-junkies.
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With that said, The Nolva guys are just playing it completely safe. I understand their point. I just want to avoid getting crap under the table. I'm not a fan of illegal usage of drugs. I will be taking Formex in conjunction with the last week of Tren cycle.

Sorry, screwed that post up. Had to edit it! Epistane is a go after PCT with Formex and PCS.
 
whats the benefit of taking 1-T Tren then if a pill is cheeper (tren xtreme) and you dont have to lather your self up and avoid the sun/ showers for 6 houres?
 
Shuggah said:
Give it a rest, SERM-junkies galore here on AM, I just dont understand, I guess it's just a normal adverse reaction to a new method of PCT.

As I understand, I3C Is a freaking SERM in it's own right, so get off your Nolvadex butt (which isnt exactly 'all-good, non-toxic, without risk' in itself) and atleast give OTC a chance, with substances like Reversatol and I3C it's worth trying IMO

BTW, this is not a personal attack, i'm just tired of all the Nolva-junkies.
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You seem to be anti SERM and are letting everyone know about it. Feel free to run OTC PCT I believe there are compounds that it is very effective for but m-drol and tren are not 2 I am thinking of. OTC can be part of a m-drol or Tren pct but should not be the only pct for these compounds.

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pembroke3355 said:
You seem to be anti SERM and are letting everyone know about it. Feel free to run OTC PCT I believe there are compounds that it is very effective for but m-drol and tren are not 2 I am thinking of. OTC can be part of a m-drol or Tren pct but should not be the only pct for these compounds.
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qwerty33 said:
whats the benefit of taking 1-T Tren then if a pill is cheeper (tren xtreme) and you dont have to lather your self up and avoid the sun/ showers for 6 houres?
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For one you have an excuse for some random hot chick to lather you up in the gym..:laugh2:

No really, I think it's more preference. You don't have to take it three times a day, and you don't have to be concerned about absorbing the product, as it will sink into the blood stream pretty fast and effectively. Also, if your liver is of any concern, even tho Tren-X is not methylated, you wouldn't have to worry about this at all with the cream.
 
makes sense thanks, it is not meth but do the pills have an effect on the liver? i assume the cream has no effect
 
qwerty33 said:
makes sense thanks, it is not meth but do the pills have an effect on the liver? i assume the cream has no effect
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Nah, not really. But I didn't take any chance. I went ahead and got the ACL LIVR, which was a measly $15 for me. So it was worth it. That's my dose of milk thistle. Plus, I can't be sure how honest ACL is really being with their product info anyways. I mean, it clearly says "no gyno", but there are plenty of users who have developed the gyno due to that product. Anyways, the cream also has DHEA, which is supposed to help with libido and what not, but is known to aggravate gyno and estro-spikes if too much is taken with the Tren-X. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I do know that my pills have NO DHEA in them.
 
i like soem of your points due, first thing though, epistane is a steroid itself and will shut you down, not like tren but it will without a doubt shut you down. I myself am unable in Canada to really get serms, so i use what i can get, but just again epistane is without a doubt a steroid and you wouldnt want to run a steroid as pct for the strongest prohormone available.

good luck
 
searl12 said:
i like soem of your points due, first thing though, epistane is a steroid itself and will shut you down, not like tren but it will without a doubt shut you down. I myself am unable in Canada to really get serms, so i use what i can get, but just again epistane is without a doubt a steroid and you wouldnt want to run a steroid as pct for the strongest prohormone available.

Nah, I messed the previous post up. I was at work when I was typing, and I took about 45 minutes to make that post. Bottom line, Epistane is something I will consider after cycling off Tren and restoring my normal hormones. Sorry for the confusion.
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no worries bro, i make a billion mistakes daily, good luck with your cycle and welcome to AM people on here ( for the most part ) stick together and help as much as they can, the good bros give advice and try to do so in a respectful way, even when disagreeing respect is usually given. you will like it here man, lots of good people not like that other forum...
 
be careful with thinking tren x isnt harsh on the liver because its not methylated. ive seen two people have bloodwork done on liver and kidney values and both were elevated a good amount above normal.

id like to actually hear from people who have run different pcts from tren and what their results were. ive seen a lot of advice about what to take but not many logs of how their pct went afterward or with blood work
 
ato ucf said:
be careful with thinking tren x isnt harsh on the liver because its not methylated. ive seen two people have bloodwork done on liver and kidney values and both were elevated a good amount above normal.

id like to actually hear from people who have run different pcts from tren and what their results were. ive seen a lot of advice about what to take but not many logs of how their pct went afterward or with blood work
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You know, I wasn't for sure about it when my supplier told me that it wasn't "as hard" on the liver as the mass-x was. After that comment I went ahead and got the ACL LIVR as well. Plus, just yesterday I started my Cycle Support so I really don't have any worries about liver/BP at the moment. Things should start shaping up as far as the organs go.

As for PCT, I'm getting ready to start it pretty soon. I opted for Formex 50/50/25/25 and Cycle Support from AI. I'll also get some type of test booster and run it for about 3-4 weeks alongside the Formex and just stay on the Formex afterwards, because its a good staple supp. to have year round.
 
pembroke3355 said:
I have heard good things about Formex.
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Why not just use TD formestane over esterfied oral formestane. I honestly don't see how this product will work as well as the proven TD route! CEL has TD Formestane for cheaper than formex! The write up from IBE says that this product is by far better than regular formestane. They mean ORAL Formestane, not TD Formestane. This was confirmed to me by an IBE rep!! There is so much hype over formex. I know that IBE is a pretty reputable company, but so is CEL and they have a product that has been proven to work very well for cheaper. Don't believe the hype!!!!
 
stl123 said:
Why not just use TD formestane over esterfied oral formestane. I honestly don't see how this product will work as well as the proven TD route! CEL has TD Formestane for cheaper than formex! The write up from IBE says that this product is by far better than regular formestane. They mean ORAL Formestane, not TD Formestane. This was confirmed to me by an IBE rep!! There is so much hype over formex. I know that IBE is a pretty reputable company, but so is CEL and they have a product that has been proven to work very well for cheaper. Don't believe the hype!!!!
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I'm actually ordering some when NutraPlanet gets their next batch in. I've already decided to do this.
 
alright so i said **** it sucked it up and am going with clomid...heres what my cycle/pct will look like:

weeks 1-5
cycle support - 2 scoops/day
green tea extract - 800mg/day
glucosamine - 1500mg/day
vitex - 1g/day

tren extreme - 60mg/day weeks 1,2 90mg/day weeks 3-5


PCT - will take cycle support and green tea throughout

weeks 1-4

clomid - 300mg/day 1 100mg/day 2-7, then 50mg, 50mg, 25mg
diesel test hardcore - 6 tabs/day

weeks 3-6

formestane - pyramid up then down 1.5, 2, 2.5, 2.5, 2, 1.5
lean extreme - 3caps/day

how does that look?
 
ato ucf said:
alright so i said **** it sucked it up and am going with clomid...heres what my cycle/pct will look like:

weeks 1-5
cycle support - 2 scoops/day
green tea extract - 800mg/day
glucosamine - 1500mg/day
vitex - 1g/day

tren extreme - 60mg/day weeks 1,2 90mg/day weeks 3-5


PCT - will take cycle support and green tea throughout

weeks 1-4

clomid - 300mg/day 1 100mg/day 2-7, then 50mg, 50mg, 25mg
diesel test hardcore - 6 tabs/day

weeks 3-6

formestane - pyramid up then down 1.5, 2, 2.5, 2.5, 2, 1.5
lean extreme - 3caps/day

how does that look?
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Looks like a very good plan bro.
 
pembroke3355 said:
Looks like a very good plan bro.
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thanks bro ...anyone else have any advice?

im starting tomorrow planning on around 3500 calories/day as clean as possible. 6 good sized meals a day with a isomass or cytogainer shake after workouts. macro breakdown roughly 50 carb/ 35 protein/ 15 fat
 
ato ucf said:
thanks bro ...anyone else have any advice?

im starting tomorrow planning on around 3500 calories/day as clean as possible. 6 good sized meals a day with a isomass or cytogainer shake after workouts. macro breakdown roughly 50 carb/ 35 protein/ 15 fat
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Give it hell bro.:)
 
ato ucf said:
thanks bro ...anyone else have any advice?

im starting tomorrow planning on around 3500 calories/day as clean as possible. 6 good sized meals a day with a isomass or cytogainer shake after workouts. macro breakdown roughly 50 carb/ 35 protein/ 15 fat
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I love my I3C during PCT, if no one else has mentioned it. Totally underated supp. I know that it's in activate extreme, not sure about lean extreme.
 
bound said:
I love my I3C during PCT, if no one else has mentioned it. Totally underated supp. I know that it's in activate extreme, not sure about lean extreme.
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i was gonna throw that in there but decided to go with a serm instead of otc. so far im on day 6 and am up 4lbs at 2pills/day. ive noticed a slight increase in aggression and a slight increase in acne but other than that feel great. my appetite has been insane and have noticed a can get an extra rep or two on most of my sets. so far so good considering its not supposed to kick in until after the first week or so especially at 2 pills instead of 3.

since i had extra anabolic pump im throwing that in to my pct... ive never seen people use it for that but i think it would be perfect since you need to eat more during pct. it lets you eat more and stay lean as well as help with cholesterol....seems like an obvious choice to me i dont know why the **** i dont see more ppl using it for that.
 
If your looking for OTC PCT .... Formex/PCT Assist or Post Cycle Support/Cycle Support/Liver support is the way to go I finished a 3 week cycle of M-drol recently and am currently on 3rd week of PCT and I'm 196 (Was 203 at end of M-drol cycle but Formex has leaned me out great) strength gains are still increasing slightly, libido is great and my mind set is still beast mode. IBE's Formex is looking very promising for a next gen PCT. :)
 
pembroke3355 said:
Post Cycle Support/Formex has become a very popular OTC PCT.
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I dont think Formex is going to be enough for my libido/test to come back after taking this Tren. I'm strongly considering PP's TRS instead. But Formex does lean you out and gives some benefits while on cycle for sure.
 
fueledpassion said:
I dont think Formex is going to be enough for my libido/test to come back after taking this Tren. I'm strongly considering PP's TRS instead. But Formex does lean you out and gives some benefits while on cycle for sure.
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What makes you think TRS is going to be any better?
 
i went with a serm for my pct for tren but will definitely consider using formex/PCS for my next pct.

how would formex work at combating gyno/prolactin sides while on the tren?

side note: 1 week in and am definitely feeling stronger and have much better endurance in the gym. ill try not to suck tren's cock too much on here but definitely looking forward to the next couple weeks.
 
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