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Berberine + HEAT Stack?

JudoJosh

JudoJosh

Pro Virili Parte
Wondering if this is safe? Currently I work out fasted in the mornings and take berberine prior to my fasted training (because it stimulates AMPK activity) I wanted to take HEAT stack prior to my workout to because the Capsiacin is soupposed to activate the AMPK too. The problem I see is berberine is a MAOI and in the HEAT stack Piperine & Hordenine are MAOIs too.

Would it be advisable stack these too? I am kinda bummed because I was all set to start this tomorrow and now I am a little hesitant. Not sure of the amount of the Piperine & Hordenine in HEAT stack so if you can comment on if there is enough of it to be an issue with the berberine. I will be taking around 300mg berberine.

Lastly if you think it wont be a good idea to combine the two would it be worth it to take HEAT stack on my off days only?

Thanks
 
i'm hoping matt can chime in with a more in-depth answer, but as i see it now, there really isn't a concernable issue... if you consider it as a MAO(-B) inhibitor, as are piperine/bergenin, and the issue would be depletion of serum tyramine levels, you can see that HEAT already contains tyramine to attenuate that depletion.

if you're cautious, i'd advise either using HEAT alone, or reducing the amount of berberine and perhaps increase over time to assess tolerance.
 
Smitty77 said:
i'm hoping matt can chime in with a more in-depth answer, but as i see it now, there really isn't a concernable issue... if you consider it as a MAO(-B) inhibitor, as are piperine/bergenin, and the issue would be depletion of serum tyramine levels, you can see that HEAT already contains tyramine to attenuate that depletion.

if you're cautious, i'd advise either using HEAT alone, or reducing the amount of berberine and perhaps increase over time to assess tolerance.
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Ahhh good point :thumbsup:

I was planning my new workout/diet/supplementation late last night. I was real excited to give DCP/HEAT stack a go and then realized the MAOI may be a problem. I posted hoping that I overlooked something or was off base with my reasoning.

I may give it a go with the berberine and try and add HEAT to it after a couple workouts and see if anything is noticable. I know products that contain berberine have warnings about MAOI use while taking it. Hopefully Matt will chime in and put my mind at ease :D
 
JudoJosh said:
Ahhh good point :thumbsup:

I was planning my new workout/diet/supplementation late last night. I was real excited to give DCP/HEAT stack a go and then realized the MAOI may be a problem. I posted hoping that I overlooked something or was off base with my reasoning.

I may give it a go with the berberine and try and add HEAT to it after a couple workouts and see if anything is noticable. I know products that contain berberine have warnings about MAOI use while taking it. Hopefully Matt will chime in and put my mind at ease :D
Click to expand...

accidentally posted piperine/berginin when i meant piperine/hordenine.

as said, though, decrease the berberine dosage to see how you react first (other MAO inhibitors present in the formula, as well as other alpha-2 antagonists [a-yohimbine])... i think you're in a position in which you're likely to see better results from DCP/HEAT than to worry about the inclusion of berberine, especially considering capsaicin (or any stimulant) activates AMPK.



as an aside, do researchers still believe that AMPK prevents muscle hypertrophy? or has that been debunked by this point?
 
Smitty77 said:
accidentally posted piperine/berginin when i meant piperine/hordenine.

as said, though, decrease the berberine dosage to see how you react first (other MAO inhibitors present in the formula, as well as other alpha-2 antagonists [a-yohimbine])... i think you're in a position in which you're likely to see better results from DCP/HEAT than to worry about the inclusion of berberine, especially considering capsaicin (or any stimulant) activates AMPK.



as an aside, do researchers still believe that AMPK prevents muscle hypertrophy? or has that been debunked by this point?
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Ampk essentially blunts mtor, so people have a tendency to associate the two. Ampk activation certainly is desirable at times though as we know.
 
poopypants said:
Ampk,

can someone break it down for me?
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In regards to fat loss

The role of AMPK, both in energy regulation and fat loss, should be highlighted more often. In particular, AMPK activation (either due to insulin sensitizers, insulin-independent glucose-disposal agents, PPAR-gamma activators, adipokines such as leptin and adiponectin, stress, or exercise), has short term and long(er) term effects. Short-term, AMPK activation stimulates cells to switch from active ATP consumption (synthesis of fatty acids and glycerol) to active ATP production (oxidation of fatty acids and glucose). Longer-term, AMPK activation impacts protein and insulin syntheses, gene expression, and appetite regulation. These longer-term effects not only have significance for metabolic processes in muscle cells and adipose tissue, but also in liver, heart, and pancreatic cells. The fat loss effects can be traced to the impact of AMPK activation on insulin metabolism and oxidation of fatty acids. In particular, by stimulating the translocation the GLUT-1 and GLUT-4 proteins, AMPK activation enhances glucose uptake, leading to enhanced glycolysis and elevated ATP production. Furthermore, by inhibiting the action of the enzyme, hormone sensitive lipase (HSL), AMPK activation ensures that the HSL-induced rate of release of fatty acids from triglycerides (that would normally induce higher ATP levels due to oxidized fatty acids) does not exceed the rate of fatty acid oxidation. This serves to hinder fat accumulation. Along these lines, the impact of AMPK activation on peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor gamma (PPAR-gamma), a receptor with primarily adipocyte domicile and activity, leads to increased insulin sensitivity and fatty-acid oxidation in hepatic and skeletal muscle cells. This occurs mainly via the action of the adipokine, adiponectin, that triggers glucose uptake and fatty acid oxidation in skeletal muscle cells, while promoting fatty acid oxidation and inhibiting gluconeogenesis in hepatic cells. In summary, AMPK activation can produce beneficial effects on fat loss via some of the mechanisms addressed earlier.
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TTA+ Propionyl-L-Carnitine + Choline Bitratrate + Berberine = 8-12 weeks on keto you will simply see the FAT say you good bye ;)
 
AMPk is a double-edged sword. While it does all those nice things mentioned in JudoJosh's post, it also slows down protien synthesis by inhibiting mTOR signaling. That is ok during your workout, as you are likely reaping the benifits of the increased fatty acid oxidation. However, post-workout you want protein synthesis to be high to help aid in the recovery of the muscles you damaged.

An easy way to do this is to down some leucine which should upregulate mTOR and get protein synthesis going again. You can also take advantage of your greatly enhanced insulin sensitivity and take in some carbs as well.

The leucine needs to be taken with protien to get it's full effect. I generally take my leucine 10 min before my protien shake. I'm not sure if this is that much more effect than taking it with my shake, but there are some theories on competition of amino acid uptake pathways, so why not.
 
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