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BCAA's a must or hype?

yes and waiting for the mail to arrive- until then im bcaa deprived
 
Gutterpump said:
The one thing I don't do, even though I flavor my water with Bcaa's, is to use gallon jugs and sip.

I tend to use 1.5L bottles and slam them down multiple times daily. This also helps where it comes to creating a protein refractory period.
Click to expand...

I saw another study that said, time releasing leucine is useless, so this makes sense. This is why I said I was gonna go with 4g/4x a day. I really can't
use supplements to flavor water because I'd just chuck all the liquid.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Anyone else getting hungry from drinking BCAAs??
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I have been drinking BCAA with my NOS Ether at the end of my workouts (5:15am) I eat Breakfast at 5:30 I normally have a shake at 9am but lately I need to eat something around 8am, now that I think about it this started when I started using the BCAA ?????
 
Rocket3015 said:
I have been drinking BCAA with my NOS Ether at the end of my workouts (5:15am) I eat Breakfast at 5:30 I normally have a shake at 9am but lately I need to eat something around 8am, now that I think about it this started when I started using the BCAA ?????
Click to expand...

Im abt to go celebrate this Dieselade release with some white castles. Im starving. Ill prob eat an entire bag of chips waiting on something to cook anyway. Man in Florida Publix grocery stores sold some good food. I never ate junk down there.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Im abt to go celebrate this Dieselade release with some white castles. Im starving. Ill prob eat an entire bag of chips waiting on something to cook anyway. Man in Florida Publix grocery stores sold some good food. I never ate junk down there.
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Love publix. Congrats chuck on your new product. Looks well thought out.


I'm a bcaa fan and my clients love bcaas. I gotta say though seems the taste of xtend blue raz wins out over anything else with them.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Im abt to go celebrate this Dieselade release with some white castles. Im starving. Ill prob eat an entire bag of chips waiting on something to cook anyway. Man in Florida Publix grocery stores sold some good food. I never ate junk down there.
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used to stop at white castle all the time back in my drinking days, lol.

you can tell when the bars close, white castle fills up!!!
 
thebigt said:
used to stop at white castle all the time back in my drinking days, lol.

you can tell when the bars close, white castle fills up!!!
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Yeah..at 2am
 
1Fast400 said:
A write up on the results of that study vs the click bait that some online science sites like to post:

The best physiologically possible body composition outcome for an individual performing resistance training while intentionally trying to lose body fat through restricting calories is to maintain their pre-diet muscle mass while losing fat mass. Very few athletes who often cut weight (e.g. MMA, boxers, wrestlers, dancers, etc.) are able to lose body fat without simultaneously losing muscle mass. These athletes often maximize muscle mass and muscular performance (e.g. power, strength) gains in the off-season as they know that they will lose a significant amount of muscle mass and muscular performance as they cut their body weight to achieve their target performance weight. A very low calorie supplement that could help these athletes maintain their hard earned muscle mass and muscular performance gains while still cutting body fat would be the ideal product to use for any person that is trying to gain or maintain their muscle mass and muscular performance.

The results from an independent university-based study showed that supplementation of Scivation’s Xtend in experienced weight trained athletes performing resistance training while on a caloric-restricted diet allowed the subjects to maintain their pre-diet muscle mass and preserve skeletal muscle performance while simultaneously losing fat mass.
The subjects using Scivation’s Xtend maintained their muscle mass while the subjects that used the placebo lost nearly 2 pounds of muscle mass. The subjects supplementing with Scivation’s Xtend lost 1.1 pounds of body fat while the subjects on the placebo didn’t have a significant change in body fat.

Performance wise, subjects using Xtend had a 3X greater increase in their lower body muscular performance (i.e. back squat) over the placebo subjects. In addition, the Xtend group significantly increased bench press strength by over 15 pounds while the placebo group lost over 8 pounds of muscular strength.

During caloric restriction the body’s typical response is to utilize available energy sources, both lipid and muscle, to provide the necessary calories for survival. So, to be able to maintain lean tissue mass and lose fat mass during caloric restriction is a near ideal outcome.
Click to expand...

Read it again, and apart from the graph confusion, I actually now understand the comment the author made. \

Reading comprehension. Not even once.
 
I'm glad things have cool off in here!
 
Chuck Diesel

about your protein intake, found it funny that Rich Piana (in his latest video) mentioned how protein is overrated. Said he used to eat 80g of protein per meal and now thinks it's a waste, and that 30g would prolly be enough. For someone his size, that is not that much. Carbs are more important when trying to put on size he says.

I think im gonna put it to the test, eating only around 0.5g to .75g protein/lbs, up the carbs, and use BCAA around workout. Always up for trying new things ;)
 
Madevilz said:
Chuck Diesel

about your protein intake, found it funny that Rich Piana (in his latest video) mentioned how protein is overrated. Said he used to eat 80g of protein per meal and now thinks it's a waste, and that 30g would prolly be enough. For someone his size, that is not that much. Carbs are more important when trying to put on size he says.

I think im gonna put it to the test, eating only around 0.5g to .75g protein/lbs, up the carbs, and use BCAA around workout. Always up for trying new things ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah and hes big as fck. The funny thing is yest I was thinking carbs and fat more important to my mental focus motivation and test levels.

Im also believe if I drank whey Id just crap 60% of it out. Whey is so cheap now in quality, its only like 53% protein by vol. The rest is added crap or carbs, cookie chunks blabla.
 
Madevilz said:
Chuck Diesel

about your protein intake, found it funny that Rich Piana (in his latest video) mentioned how protein is overrated. Said he used to eat 80g of protein per meal and now thinks it's a waste, and that 30g would prolly be enough. For someone his size, that is not that much. Carbs are more important when trying to put on size he says.

I think im gonna put it to the test, eating only around 0.5g to .75g protein/lbs, up the carbs, and use BCAA around workout. Always up for trying new things ;)
Click to expand...

If i could Id eat 40g proten, 140g carbs, 20g fat 3x a day. No added protein powder. dnt know what that adds up 2 cals wise but I know thats more than what I get now in protein.
 
I'll stick to my 200 grams of protein per day thank you!
 
digitalpimp said:
I recently added 15 grams of BCAA's before and after workout. I'm liking it so far
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15g 2x, Damn! Bulk BCAAs? Mixed with water or protein? Thanks the the info
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Yeah and hes big as fck. The funny thing is yest I was thinking carbs and fat more important to my mental focus motivation and test levels.

Im also believe if I drank whey Id just crap 60% of it out. Whey is so cheap now in quality, its only like 53% protein by vol. The rest is added crap or carbs, cookie chunks blabla.
Click to expand...

Rich is big as ****. But whats the got to do with him dropping protein intake now? If I weighed 300lbs and got there by eating high protein then said **** it im going vegan, me being big isnt a testament to the efficacy of veganism.
 
Jiigzz said:
Rich is big as ****. But whats the got to do with him dropping protein intake now? If I weighed 300lbs and got there by eating high protein then said **** it im going vegan, me being big isnt a testament to the efficacy of veganism.
Click to expand...

Right. Like steroids dnt work. Imma stop...once im 300lbs...
 
1Fast400 said:
A write up on the results of that study vs the click bait that some online science sites like to post:

The best physiologically possible body composition outcome for an individual performing resistance training while intentionally trying to lose body fat through restricting calories is to maintain their pre-diet muscle mass while losing fat mass. Very few athletes who often cut weight (e.g. MMA, boxers, wrestlers, dancers, etc.) are able to lose body fat without simultaneously losing muscle mass. These athletes often maximize muscle mass and muscular performance (e.g. power, strength) gains in the off-season as they know that they will lose a significant amount of muscle mass and muscular performance as they cut their body weight to achieve their target performance weight. A very low calorie supplement that could help these athletes maintain their hard earned muscle mass and muscular performance gains while still cutting body fat would be the ideal product to use for any person that is trying to gain or maintain their muscle mass and muscular performance.

The results from an independent university-based study showed that supplementation of Scivation’s Xtend in experienced weight trained athletes performing resistance training while on a caloric-restricted diet allowed the subjects to maintain their pre-diet muscle mass and preserve skeletal muscle performance while simultaneously losing fat mass.
The subjects using Scivation’s Xtend maintained their muscle mass while the subjects that used the placebo lost nearly 2 pounds of muscle mass. The subjects supplementing with Scivation’s Xtend lost 1.1 pounds of body fat while the subjects on the placebo didn’t have a significant change in body fat.

Performance wise, subjects using Xtend had a 3X greater increase in their lower body muscular performance (i.e. back squat) over the placebo subjects. In addition, the Xtend group significantly increased bench press strength by over 15 pounds while the placebo group lost over 8 pounds of muscular strength.

During caloric restriction the body’s typical response is to utilize available energy sources, both lipid and muscle, to provide the necessary calories for survival. So, to be able to maintain lean tissue mass and lose fat mass during caloric restriction is a near ideal outcome.
Click to expand...
IMHO the data in this "independent study" is far too vague. Post up the actual study with the actual parameters and data.

I used a flavored BCAA product at 25g in a restricted calorie diet as a water flavor for years. Then have since stopped using for the same or more. There has been no difference in any parameter of performance or recovery or weight gain or loss.
 
^^^ haha the only dif
 
Seems like Wilson ran that study. Gained 15lbs on Bench while placebo lost 8lbs? Thats a whopping 23lbs difference between one product and placebo.

Impressive
 
Jiigzz said:
Seems like Wilson ran that study. Gained 15lbs on Bench while placebo lost 8lbs? Thats a whopping 23lbs difference between one product and placebo.

Impressive
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read it closer. It doesn't say -8lbs on "bench". There's multiple "persuasive" reporting points.
 
David Dunn said:
read it closer. It doesn't say -8lbs on "bench". There's multiple "persuasive" reporting points.
Click to expand...

Ahh right missed that key phrase
 
David Dunn said:
IMHO the data in this "independent study" is far too vague. Post up the actual study with the actual parameters and data.

I used a flavored BCAA product at 25g in a restricted calorie diet as a water flavor for years. Then have since stopped using for the same or more. There has been no difference in any parameter of performance or recovery or weight gain or loss.
Click to expand...

You know what tho, in the defense of Aminos, I don't no anyone that can tell any training, strength or physical difference from drinking protein over less than 60 days, or any brand of protein. the only dif in protein is taste, quality and how often you run the the bathroom. I really don't see a difference in any parameter from ppl who drink protein on performance, recovery, weight gain or loss.

One of my best friends, did and still does swear whey makes her aggressive and angry tho.
 
David Dunn said:
Probably could have done without the smart ass conclusion. Sorry.
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nah that was funny, bc thats about 3/4 of a kilo of BCAAs a month! You would save $$.. You know when I take creatine, I don't really
notice anything, except when I stop I lose strength and water weight. But I can't say strength shoots up on creatine. Thats OT but
I was just thinking...
 
Chuck Diesel said:
nah that was funny, bc thats about 3/4 of a kilo of BCAAs a month! You would save $$.. You know when I take creatine, I don't really
notice anything, except when I stop I lose strength and water weight. But I can't say strength shoots up on creatine. Thats OT but
I was just thinking...
Click to expand...
5day/week*52weeks/12months=541g/months USPowders Bulk Modern BCAA used to have a kilo dirt cheap.
 
David Dunn said:
5day/week*52weeks/12months=541g/months USPowders Bulk Modern BCAA used to have a kilo dirt cheap.
Click to expand...

Oh...Mondern BCAA....doesnt Modern BCAA have an undisclosed amount of BCAAs per serving? Where you getting 25g of Modern BCAA or 25g of BCAAs??
 
I only utilize BCAA's when on contest prep. They seem to help me kill those sweet-tooth cravings. I mainly use it to keep from going catabolic though. Appears to help a bit with energy throughout the day as well
 
David Dunn said:
Invalid Link Removed
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Oh ok, its just the BCAAs I thought it was modern BCAA in bulk form. Like the amino blend. I wish I saw this before I spent forever researching my DIESELADE write up. Everything in here is facts.
 
Chuck Diesel said:
Oh ok, its just the BCAAs I thought it was modern BCAA in bulk form. Like the amino blend. I wish I saw this before I spent forever researching my DIESELADE write up. Everything in here is facts.
Click to expand...
i do believe in theory and laboratory it is true but I just don't see it translate tangiably in practical application for myself being the intermediate/advanced recreational athlete/trainer. This is the sole reason that I have since forgone using them.

Edit: btw I used to be a Xtend user as well.
 
David Dunn said:
i do believe in theory and laboratory it is true but I just don't see it translate tangiably in practical application for myself being the intermediate/advanced recreational athlete/trainer. This is the sole reason that I have since forgone using them.

Edit: btw I used to be a Xtend user as well.
Click to expand...

Well that is what BCAAs due, from a biochemical stand point. But biochemistry doesn't do "time" and "measurements." Like Exercise physiology which measures time and is quantitative. So BCAAs activate mTOR. Ok, well how much? How fast, the results are how many grams/lbs??
 
I only buy my BCAAs from great online retailers such as lockout supplements, nutraplanet, strong supplement shop and nutriverse. Great quality, great customer service, what more can you ask for?
 
Jiigzz said:
Ahh right missed that key phrase
Click to expand...
I cant tell anymore if people are being sarcastic or not. I prefer to be very clear when I am to remove all doubt.

But to my point(s):
The results from an independent university-based study showed that supplementation of Scivation’s Xtend in experienced weight trained athletes performing resistance training while on a caloric-restricted diet allowed the subjects to maintain their pre-diet muscle mass and preserve skeletal muscle performance while simultaneously losing fat mass.
The subjects using Scivation’s Xtend maintained their muscle mass while the subjects that used the placebo lost nearly 2 pounds of muscle mass. The subjects supplementing with Scivation’s Xtend lost 1.1 pounds of body fat while the subjects on the placebo didn’t have a significant change in body fat.
Click to expand...
So every single subject using extend retained every ounce of muscle mass? Every single placebo group lost "nearly" 2 pounds of muscle each? What is nearly? 1.5, 1.6 or 1.9. The difference could be 50 to 90% difference. Statistically significant...no? Every xtend subject lost exactly 1.1lbs of fat and the entire placebo group lost zero, none?

Performance wise, subjects using Xtend had a 3X greater increase in their lower body muscular performance (i.e. back squat) over the placebo subjects.
Click to expand...
3X what? What is muscular performance and what are the data points? .3 is 3x greater than .1. Is that statistically significant? Is it practically significant?
In addition, the Xtend group significantly increased bench press strength by over 15 pounds while the placebo group lost over 8 pounds of muscular strength.
Click to expand...
Bench press and muscular strength are not the same. Muscular performance seems all inclusive where as bench press is exclusive to itself. Suppose the placebo group lost 5lbs in dead lift and 3lbs in squat in their muscular performance and that is 1% each respectively yet their bench press and all other "measures of muscular performance" did not change. Is that statistically significant. Did every single subject in the xtend group increase their bench press by 15lbs? Did every subject in the placebo group loss 8lbs of muscular performance? What about the xtends muscular performance? I can go on and ramble away about it.

Every statement is a positive persuasive statement for the efficacy of a product yet without any comparable validity. These concluding statements of this study have absolutely zero credibility IMHO. I'm simply reading is all.

You are far smarter than me on these matters. I apologize in advance if this is an irritant. Not my intention. But, this study conclusion as presented is clearly as invalid as my nose is clearly on my face.

If your reply to my post was your concurrence then please disregard :D
 
^^^ I see what you mean, it is vague. But I don't even comment, or spend a lot of time on "studies" done on products. For one, you may think the study will benefit your company/product, so you do not do it specifically on a BCAA ratio or BCAAs in general, but the problem is as soon as you make any formula change to your product, the study doesn't apply to your product any more. Its the same thing as another company going "In a study that used a similar amount of BCAA found in TigerBlood Balls BCAA, people saw 3x increase in strength."
 
David Dunn said:
I cant tell anymore if people are being sarcastic or not. I prefer to be very clear when I am to remove all doubt.

But to my point(s):So every single subject using extend retained every ounce of muscle mass? Every single placebo group lost "nearly" 2 pounds of muscle each? What is nearly? 1.5, 1.6 or 1.9. The difference could be 50 to 90% difference. Statistically significant...no? Every xtend subject lost exactly 1.1lbs of fat and the entire placebo group lost zero, none?

3X what? What is muscular performance and what are the data points? .3 is 3x greater than .1. Is that statistically significant? Is it practically significant? Bench press and muscular strength are not the same. Muscular performance seems all inclusive where as bench press is exclusive to itself. Suppose the placebo group lost 5lbs in dead lift and 3lbs in squat in their muscular performance and that is 1% each respectively yet their bench press and all other "measures of muscular performance" did not change. Is that statistically significant. Did every single subject in the xtend group increase their bench press by 15lbs? Did every subject in the placebo group loss 8lbs of muscular performance? What about the xtends muscular performance? I can go on and ramble away about it.

Every statement is a positive persuasive statement for the efficacy of a product yet without any comparable validity. These concluding statements of this study have absolutely zero credibility IMHO. I'm simply reading is all.

You are far smarter than me on these matters. I apologize in advance if this is an irritant. Not my intention. But, this study conclusion as presented is clearly as invalid as my nose is clearly on my face.

If your reply to my post was your concurrence then please disregard :D
Click to expand...

No sarcasm, on phone and overlooked that it wasnt comparing bench to bench :D

Just comparing bench to overall strength. Oversight on my part (second time ITT lol)
 
i spent some time today just reading about this topic. at this point, im ready to just snort a line of the bcaa's ;o)

when i got some info i was going to share, something else pops up that questions what i was going to write.

Christian Thibaudeau suggested to his clients 5 servings a day (during his routine) with 5-10 grams each serving. He also states that "the effects are close to drug like" which drug? i have no idea, but Christian is well known and isnt a bs type of guy; as far as i know.

the one very interesting piece of info that i can share and that we should be able to agree on ( F me if its been posted on these 10 pages)- is the use of BCAA's during a - wait for it-

fasted state

When you exercise in a fasted state, muscle breakdown is increased and this is bad simply because too much muscle breakdown impairs total muscle growth over time.

oh no, what shall we ever do ?

BCAA supplement is useful for preserving muscle while training in a fasted. They also have a smaller impact on insulin levels and insulin blocks the break down of fat cells.

there are some other supps that people will include or substitute with bcaa's- is HMB. I used this back in the day when E A S was at its prime. extremely expensive, dam you bill philips and GNC. I never saw much with this and part of the reason its promoted as a muscle builder but again, reports ify. HMB however is serves more as an anti-cataboilc agent.

so if you believe your food source is adequate and dead on with your macro's, I salute you!
 
I think the problem some (like me) are having, is that Whey Protein is a hell of a lot cheaper and contains all the BCAA's.

Another problem in particular to Xtend, is that it also contains Citrulline, which on its own has some very good data in regards to LBM. Yet you never see a control of Whey+Citrulline used against it.

I'm down with the fact that the aminos in a complete protein shake *may* not be available quick enough for an intra drink, or slammed down *right* before training - but if you have the ability to eat 120-60 minutes prior...

I guess "These are not the aminos you're looking for" has yet to be proven to me in regards to BCAAs better than Whey, *if* you can eat a little bit before training.

I too tried Intra-MD for a few months and didn't see any massive jumps in progression - if something makes me go "holy sh&t!" and it isn't stupid expensive - bet your a$$ I'll keep using it. BCAA/Intra's aren't that expensive, yet I stopped buying them.
 
How Timely - via ErgoLog:

Invalid Link Removed

With link to Stoppani presentation:

Invalid Link Removed

And Ergolog's conclusion:

If we're honest, the results of the 2009 -Scivation- study are almost too good to be true. Don't get us wrong, we absolutely believe that in sufficient quantities, BCAAs can help athletes to maintain and build up muscle mass. But a 4-kg gain in lean body mass in just two months? That's an awful lot.
Click to expand...
 
The protein group gained 4lbs, xtend group gained 8. Xtend group gained 1lb on massive calorie restriction. That was same protocol with excess calories. Like I said, I can't publish it because Jim would never want to
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I think the problem some (like me) are having, is that Whey Protein is a hell of a lot cheaper and contains all the BCAA's.

i agree, but how pure do you believe your protein is? understand i am not asking you about the brand, or question any brand mentioned here. just like many of other products, lots of protein is imported from other places. this led people to start questioning the purity of the manufacture and the processing.

we dont need to get into a BV of each protein, but i cant tell you that i stopped using one brand after reports came out about the process of one specific brand. i get the reasoning behind it, reduce cost and increase profit, but not at the expense of the consumer.

the other part (again, good read and please take this as were just bs back and forth) is the timing effect and the "studies" that are independently funding and under the controlled environment of the funder!

the reason and this is what is so great about bodybuilding itself, we are all different. what works for you and may not work for me. am i to believe that in order for product X, i have to be subjected to or be in the same/close physical condition as the those in the test?

Rich Piana put it best, dont just read about it, try it yourself. that is the only way to tell. and i agree and add give it a chance, not just once, but pay close attn to your body's response, your diet and training when adding the new supp to your intake.
Click to expand...
 
smith_69 said:
i spent some time today just reading about this topic. at this point, im ready to just snort a line of the bcaa's ;o)

when i got some info i was going to share, something else pops up that questions what i was going to write.

Christian Thibaudeau suggested to his clients 5 servings a day (during his routine) with 5-10 grams each serving. He also states that "the effects are close to drug like" which drug? i have no idea, but Christian is well known and isnt a bs type of guy; as far as i know.

the one very interesting piece of info that i can share and that we should be able to agree on ( F me if its been posted on these 10 pages)- is the use of BCAA's during a - wait for it-

fasted state

When you exercise in a fasted state, muscle breakdown is increased and this is bad simply because too much muscle breakdown impairs total muscle growth over time.

oh no, what shall we ever do ?

BCAA supplement is useful for preserving muscle while training in a fasted. They also have a smaller impact on insulin levels and insulin blocks the break down of fat cells.

there are some other supps that people will include or substitute with bcaa's- is HMB. I used this back in the day when E A S was at its prime. extremely expensive, dam you bill philips and GNC. I never saw much with this and part of the reason its promoted as a muscle builder but again, reports ify. HMB however is serves more as an anti-cataboilc agent.

so if you believe your food source is adequate and dead on with your macro's, I salute you!
Click to expand...
incidently fasted state is the way I have always trained at 4:00am. It may indeed have staved off catabolism but as mentioned I still do the same without with no differences "perceived".
 
David Dunn said:
incidently fasted state is the way I have always trained at 4:00am. It may indeed have staved off catabolism but as mentioned I still do the same without with no differences "perceived".
Click to expand...

Not switching the subject but i know for most there is no perceived difference in adding whey to their diet except cannon ball farts and u paying a lot for something that's only,52% protein by vol.

With that said. If i could I would take whey. Like 2 scoops a day and just hope it works. The problem is with bcaas is they cost more than protein so ppl expect them perform like a preworkout or creatine product. Thats why amino energy is so popular now. Its got caffeine. So it "does something" asap
 
Some good points smith_69

I'm confident in the quality of my protein - it's either from Dante Trudel or a like type of operation. And while I agree that people have different reactions to things (for instance Creatine has over 700 studies with over 85% Scientific Consensus, yet there are some non-responders) - the "we are all different you just have to try it" mantra is a marketing man's dream. There are over 9 Billion people on this rock - you telling me there are 9 Billion different reactions to the ingestion of BCAAs? :) The *Odds* are that it will do just what the data says it will (or won't) do if the product has enough research behind it. Brand new, off the wall stuff - sure, since there is no data either way, you pretty much have to try it. But Protein/BCAA research doesn't fall into that category.
 
1Fast400 said:
The protein group gained 4lbs, xtend group gained 8. Xtend group gained 1lb on massive calorie restriction. That was same protocol with excess calories. Like I said, I can't publish it because Jim would never want to
Click to expand...

Why didn't the Protein Group (and Carb Group for that matter) also consume supplemental Citrulline? Xtend contains Citrulline, right? That's my problem with that presentation - it could have been made more "apples to apples".
 
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