Anyone worried if Corona virus keeps spreading the gyms will shut down?

BamBam54

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Can't just spout out partial "facts" without including the rest of the details that affect the officers actions and final outcome! How many unarmed black men (white, spanish, asian, etc.) were killed... that were committing crimes, on drugs, resisting arrest, and assaulting the officer or trying to grab his pistol/taser when killed??? The FULL story is important. What would YOU do in the cops position? What WILL you do when you are in this position because there are no more cops???

There ARE instances where police use excessive force and illegally kill citizens, and they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I think once the criminal is in cuffs, the cops are responsible for that life (think Freddie Gray or this guy Floyd) no matter how much of a drugged career criminal up to that point. Once in cuffs, the person is somewhat helpless for certain life saving needs.

But when the liberal left attempts to roll EVERY police killing into a racist montage it shames the legitimate cause and loses otherwise deserving widespread support. Who can argue about "systemic racism" without also having the courage to speak of "systemic criminality"? Chicken and the egg?? (*no offense meant to either chickens or eggs)

It may be a cycle of racism leads to poverty leads to criminality leads to consequence... and we need to break the cycle.

What is the larger more widespread problem? Is it white cops killing black men or black men killing white cops (and each other)??? Where can personal accountability break the cycle?
 
GreenMachineX

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Can't just spout out partial "facts" without including the rest of the details that affect the officers actions and final outcome! How many unarmed black men (white, spanish, asian, etc.) were killed... that were committing crimes, on drugs, resisting arrest, and assaulting the officer or trying to grab his pistol/taser when killed??? The FULL story is important. What would YOU do in the cops position? What WILL you do when you are in this position because there are no more cops???

There ARE instances where police use excessive force and illegally kill citizens, and they need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I think once the criminal is in cuffs, the cops are responsible for that life (think Freddie Gray or this guy Floyd) no matter how much of a drugged career criminal up to that point. Once in cuffs, the person is somewhat helpless for certain life saving needs.

But when the liberal left attempts to roll EVERY police killing into a racist montage it shames the legitimate cause and loses otherwise deserving widespread support. Who can argue about "systemic racism" without also having the courage to speak of
Don’t even bother asking what they would do in someone else’s position, because the response would just be self deception. No one know what they do until they are in it, and more than likely, they would do something worse or freeze up and get themselves and someone else killed.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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only here in the US does the color of your skin matter.. rediculous
I don't give two fucks about your color. what I care about is right vs wrong or in the case of America, right vs left, left being constantly WRONG. If it wasn't for the libs there wouldn't be a mention of racism in modern America. You can actually trace most of this BS back to Obama and his stirring of the pot.
 
Whisky

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I'm by far no racist. But maybe my privileged life has taught me to not see the racism with Floyd?

Were the cops called because he was black?
Did the police use racist words?
Was the officer holding him down emotionally charged?

How will they prove hate crime or murder?


Manslaughter..
he should have let him up to sit cuffed up.

Officer is sober, he's on meth wtf.
I would like to know the answer to this tbh (and I don’t know what the answer is) - I haven’t seen anything that suggests the officer ‘targeted’ the guy due to race - he seems like he’s some power happy police guy who got carried away with his own authority and would have knelt on anyone’s neck, white, black, Asian, little green dude from mars etc.....

is there a reason racism was assumed as the motive?
 
thebigt

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No because Hispanics are to busy trying to work for a living.. not worrying about a poor me mentality and going on and on about non sense.. also Spaniards (which happens to be my nationality) diD things right from the start at least in regards to race.. the Spaniards integrates and mixes with the indigenous and African slaves for 100s of years.. unlike this fucking country where up until 1960s there were laws against interracial marriage.. so fucking ignorant.. here I the US yeah it’s a melting pot as in we have al kinds of races but they are all separated.. whites.. blacks.. Asian.. you go to say a Hispanic country or even Puerto Rico.. and the majority of people are all Tri Racial.. having mixed ancestry background and there is no white or black nonsense.... same with Brazil and other places colonized by Spain or Portugal.. only here in the US does the color of your skin matter.. rediculous
the only color that should matter is green...the color of money.
 

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Election year. And the Rona comment, starting out hospitalizations were 1 out of 10 and now 1 out of 20. So positives up and hospitalizations down.
Hospitalizations are not down though, they are up.
 

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Hospitalization rates are down, but yes with positives up at such a high rate hospitalizations are up. But at 5% rate as opposed to 10%.
 
Bagofturdwind

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I don't give two fucks about your color. what I care about is right vs wrong or in the case of America, right vs left, left being constantly WRONG. If it wasn't for the libs there wouldn't be a mention of racism in modern America. You can actually trace most of this BS back to Obama and his stirring of the pot.
I’m not an unreasonable person, but how you make blanket statements like this is beyond me. I don’t call conservatives wrong just for being conservative. That’s ridiculous and illogical. Again, I’ve thrown this word out a lot lately, but everything requires nuance. You can’t say every policy on one side is correct. I’d call myself liberal, but I understand policies on the right. I don’t like Biden. I don’t like the excessive pandering thar occurs by democratic leaders. But to sit here and say that the entire left is wrong and the entire right is correct is the kind of myopic, self-important thinking that I previously mentioned as happening far too often here. Also, let’s not act like racism doesn’t exist just bc you think it’s being exploited lately. I typically don’t say things in life (and even here) unless I find someone being unreasonable and patronizing to an oppressed party. Attempting to have object permanence goes a long way.
 
thebigt

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I’m not an unreasonable person, but how you make blanket statements like this is beyond me. I don’t call conservatives wrong just for being conservative. That’s ridiculous and illogical. Again, I’ve thrown this word out a lot lately, but everything requires nuance. You can’t say every policy on one side is correct. I’d call myself liberal, but I understand policies on the right. I don’t like Biden. I don’t like the excessive pandering thar occurs by democratic leaders. But to sit here and say that the entire left is wrong and the entire right is correct is the kind of myopic, self-important thinking that I previously mentioned as happening far too often here. Also, let’s not act like racism doesn’t exist just bc you think it’s being exploited lately. I typically don’t say things in life (and even here) unless I find someone being unreasonable and patronizing to an oppressed party. Attempting to have object permanence goes a long way.
what conservative policies do you agree with?
 
Bagofturdwind

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what conservative policies do you agree with?
Much of free market and private property rights, social security reform, and opposing long-term welfare, as there are other avenues to provide economic fairness. I mean I’m sure there are a few more that aren’t even on my mind right now. For one, I think being professionally outraged about unfounded things like not wearing a mask out in public and when not around masses of people is a waste of energy and an easy stance bc it makes for good optics. I don’t get virtue signaling for a frickin mask that people wear incorrectly anyway. However, I understand outrage when it comes to larger, more founded problems — especially human rights issues.
 
thebigt

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Much of free market and private property rights, social security reform, and opposing long-term welfare, as there are other avenues to provide economic fairness. I mean I’m sure there are a few more that aren’t even on my mind right now. For one, I think being professionally outraged about unfounded things like not wearing a mask out in public and when not around masses of people is a waste of energy and an easy stance bc it makes for good optics. I don’t get virtue signaling for a frickin mask that people wear incorrectly anyway. However, I understand outrage when it comes to larger, more founded problems — especially human rights issues.
how do you explain democrats being in charge of the cities where most of the human rights problems seem to be occurring?
 
Bagofturdwind

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how do you explain democrats being in charge of the cities where most of the human rights problems seem to be occurring?
There are dozens of human rights issues, and they’re not limited to cities. At face value of course cities = more people = higher incidence of problems. Idk why you think I’m some hard core democrat. I believe it’s a bit telling when someone tries to add some nuance concerning race equity and police brutality, and they immediately get labeled as a dem.
 
thebigt

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There are dozens of human rights issues, and they’re not limited to cities. At face value of course cities = more people = higher incidence of problems. Idk why you think I’m some hard core democrat. I believe it’s a bit telling when someone tries to add some nuance concerning race equity and police brutality, and they immediately get labeled as a dem.
because you are a dem-correct?
 
HIT4ME

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This thread is great.

As far as the racism stuff - a few thoughts. I am not sure how any liberal cannot consider themselves racist if Biden gets in. First they vote for a totally unqualified person based solely on the color of his skin, then they turn around and put a man who has all the quotes listed earlier in this thread. And that ignores their much longer history of being in the wrong side of racism.

But the fact the media can so easily twist people by claiming racism, is scary. The media portrays right and wrong as if it is based on skin color.

From what I see - The Floyd death was wrong but nit because it had anything to do with racism - because he was already handcuffed and once an officer cuffs you it is their duty to protect you. And if you and your partner cannot handle someone who is cuffed without killing them, you are in the wrong job. But in this case, I think it was an abuse of power and possibly had some malice aforethought behind it. If Floyd was white, it would be equally wrong.

In Atlanta - what would people be saying if the cops let the guy go home after they caught him drunk driving and we found out? They were protecting other people from him. And then what would we say if the guy took their taser and then actually was successful in using it on one of the pokice officers? He already took one of their weapons, what is the next weapon he would take if he could have tased one of them? Then what would people be saying. This was wrong of the perpetrator, he made mistakes, and rhe cops were right. And if the perp was white, nothing would be changed - I would expect the same outcome from the police.

And to think this isn't the media pushing an agenda is very questionable because - as some people have said, supposedly lots of black people are killed by the police under racist pretenses. If that is the case, then why clis Atlanta being included? Can't they find a better example? Why is Floyd suddenly an issue when this has supposedly been going on forever?

I do think it is worth considering the history of racism in the world, many black people have been mistreated, and maybe black men have more fear of the cops because of this, but I think the narrative being pushed here is actually stirring this fear more and making it more dangerous for black people dealing with the police. If yoy are saying a black man is more likely to resist arrest or mess up because they are more afraid and thus desperate - then solidifying that narrative would only make things more dangerous.

The liberals and the media have felt free to call everyone who disagrees with them a racist and use it for their own agenda.

As far as black people getting shot at a higher rate - probably two contributing factors. As above, they are likely more fearful if the potential consequences of being arrested, and poverty.

And both those issues probably deserve some attention and work. Making black men more fearful by putting out exaggerated news stories does the opposite of help. And all poverty needs work.
 

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On a reluctant side note, what do you guys think of the physical fitness of police forces these days? I think it is an embarrassment we have cops that chase twinkies more than they chase suspects. In general if Americans had better physical health maybe corona wouldn’t be so bad here.
 

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Some in shape and some not, just like society. You chase someone and something accidentally happens you make the news, I wouldn't chase either.
 

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Some in shape and some not, just like society. You chase someone and something accidentally happens you make the news, I wouldn't chase either.
Except not just like society because we hold them to higher standards. Just seems like we’ve forgotten about physical standards in the police forces. I’ve seen some chubby soldiers too. How hard is it to mandate some cardio?
 
SkRaw85

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Except not just like society because we hold them to higher standards. Just seems like we’ve forgotten about physical standards in the police forces. I’ve seen some chubby soldiers too. How hard is it to mandate some cardio?
How dare you body shame our boys in blue!!!!
 

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Hey I'll be honest living in South Florida most of our police and fireman are all jacked, they busted a clinic about 5 years ago and all the clients were the aforementioned.
 
puccah8808

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anyone see any hispanics in the crowd at protests/riots/lootings?

all i have seen are angry whites/blacks.
The whites were protesting at the hospital today. “Defund the rich, put it back into the community. Hospital stays are vacations for the rich.” 🤷🏽‍♀️
 
thebigt

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The whites were protesting at the hospital today. “Defund the rich, put it back into the community. Hospital stays are vacations for the rich.” 🤷🏽‍♀️
lol...the closest i've gotten to a hospital stay in last 20 years is the ER.

patch and release...just like a damned fish :ROFLMAO:
 
Ricky10

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It’s interesting that 25 unarmed black men were shot in 2019, half that 50 number you referenced. And yet black Americans only make up 13% of the population. 13% —> 50%. Almost as if there’s a problem there. Meh statistics shmatistics. Also, I don’t care if that number is 50, 30 or 7. The number should be as close to 0 as possible. Having a lax standard does little to help this number. The standards for police to not be so trigger-happy needs to be higher.
Well, shot by police and killed by police would be different numbers. The 50 total deaths is just a yearly average for the sake of easier math. This is what the Washington Post reports for 2019 deaths:

A total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is: White: 19, Black: 9, Hispanic: 6, Other: 4, Unknown: 3.

Honestly, I also don’t care if it is 50, 30, or 7. Any would be a very low number when you consider the situations officers have to deal with IMO. Also, you are correct that black Americans account for 13% of the population. Unfortunately, they still manage to account for 50% of violent crimes which is really quite despicable. Before scrutinizing law enforcement and playing the victim role over and over, they really need to look at themselves and significantly raise their own standards.

Here is another interesting little tid-bit too: Since 2015, the number of unarmed black men being killed by police has fallen below 10 per year. More police officers are killed by blacks than unarmed blacks killed by police officers in 2018 and 2019.

322306AB-968B-4968-AD01-E3BBF531FCB1.jpeg


As far as police officers being “trigger happy,” this certainly can’t be a blanket statement, and I am sure most of them would just assume not engage themselves in gunfire period. We have already seen officers succumb and hold back during the protests/riots, and most people would agree that hasn’t gone over so well.

I’m so disappointed in the black and white citizens of our country who are on board with these protests and destruction of our historic monuments (among other things) that I really can’t put it into words. Such a disgraceful period of American history.
 
Bagofturdwind

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Well, shot by police and killed by police would be different numbers. The 50 total deaths is just a yearly average for the sake of easier math. This is what the Washington Post reports for 2019 deaths:

A total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is: White: 19, Black: 9, Hispanic: 6, Other: 4, Unknown: 3.

Honestly, I also don’t care if it is 50, 30, or 7. Any would be a very low number when you consider the situations officers have to deal with IMO. Also, you are correct that black Americans account for 13% of the population. Unfortunately, they still manage to account for 50% of violent crimes which is really quite despicable. Before scrutinizing law enforcement and playing the victim role over and over, they really need to look at themselves and significantly raise their own standards.

Here is another interesting little tid-bit too: Since 2015, the number of unarmed black men being killed by police has fallen below 10 per year. More police officers are killed by blacks than unarmed blacks killed by police officers in 2018 and 2019.

View attachment 195259

As far as police officers being “trigger happy,” this certainly can’t be a blanket statement, and I am sure most of them would just assume not engage themselves in gunfire period. We have already seen officers succumb and hold back during the protests/riots, and most people would agree that hasn’t gone over so well.

I’m so disappointed in the black and white citizens of our country who are on board with these protests and destruction of our historic monuments (among other things) that I really can’t put it into words. Such a disgraceful period of American history.
If you’re going to cherrypick stats, here’s a collaborative breakdown of crowdsourced and other research. Oh yeah, and they also kindly share The Post’s data (which shies on the conservative side) that literally says 13 black men — not the 9 you mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5322455002

We can all find articles with some graph that supports whatever it is we want to tell ourselves. Look, it’s clear I’m not changing your mind that black Americans are mistreated at a higher rate than other groups in this country. You also seem impassioned about stymying any racial analysis that appears favorable for black people. It’s a weird hill to die on as a white man, but go ahead. I guess wanting to improve upon the livelihoods of a mistreated group of people means I’m part of the sheep, brainwashed, hate whites and not woke to real facts, as so I’ve been told here. To each his own.
 
GreenMachineX

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If you’re going to cherrypick stats, here’s a collaborative breakdown of crowdsourced and other research. Oh yeah, and they also kindly share The Post’s data (which shies on the conservative side) that literally says 13 black men — not the 9 you mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5322455002

We can all find articles with some graph that supports whatever it is we want to tell ourselves. Look, it’s clear I’m not changing your mind that black Americans are mistreated at a higher rate than other groups in this country. You also seem impassioned about stymying any racial analysis that appears favorable for black people. It’s a weird hill to die on as a white man, but go ahead. I guess wanting to improve upon the livelihoods of a mistreated group of people means I’m part of the sheep, brainwashed, hate whites and not woke to real facts, as so I’ve been told here. To each his own.
13...interesting...so still more police officers being killed by African Americans.
 

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If they want the police defunded and exploited, just remove them from the areas they live. Let them get high on hardcore drugs passing counterfeit bills at their businesses.

Move those resources to my neighborhood.

Another thing that I can't believe maybe due to my privileged life is the removal of statues and monuments.

I can understand the Confederate flag, but wasn't Abe a Republican that created the emancipation proclamation?

Who what American supports what Confederates wanted? From my understanding it was fight or be killed.
Nobody, it's another media shitpile to raise racial tensions. How Democrats work.
 
GreenMachineX

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If you’re going to cherrypick stats, here’s a collaborative breakdown of crowdsourced and other research. Oh yeah, and they also kindly share The Post’s data (which shies on the conservative side) that literally says 13 black men — not the 9 you mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5322455002

We can all find articles with some graph that supports whatever it is we want to tell ourselves. Look, it’s clear I’m not changing your mind that black Americans are mistreated at a higher rate than other groups in this country. You also seem impassioned about stymying any racial analysis that appears favorable for black people. It’s a weird hill to die on as a white man, but go ahead. I guess wanting to improve upon the livelihoods of a mistreated group of people means I’m part of the sheep, brainwashed, hate whites and not woke to real facts, as so I’ve been told here. To each his own.
13...interesting...so still more police officers being killed by African Americans.
13...interesting...so still more police officers being killed by African Americans.
I also wonder how “unarmed” is defined. Is it truly unarmed like a Floyd, or like you stole my taser and shot it at me? This is a serious question actually.
 
thebigt

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If you’re going to cherrypick stats, here’s a collaborative breakdown of crowdsourced and other research. Oh yeah, and they also kindly share The Post’s data (which shies on the conservative side) that literally says 13 black men — not the 9 you mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5322455002

We can all find articles with some graph that supports whatever it is we want to tell ourselves. Look, it’s clear I’m not changing your mind that black Americans are mistreated at a higher rate than other groups in this country. You also seem impassioned about stymying any racial analysis that appears favorable for black people. It’s a weird hill to die on as a white man, but go ahead. I guess wanting to improve upon the livelihoods of a mistreated group of people means I’m part of the sheep, brainwashed, hate whites and not woke to real facts, as so I’ve been told here. To each his own.
i grew up poor in a predominately black neighborhood...it has less to do with color of skin than it does with finances-poor people of ALL colors will be treated with less respect and dignity than the more affluent---race is secondary to money....

i've said it once and will say it again---the only color that matters is green!!!!
 
BamBam54

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This "number" of blacks unjustly killed by white police officers.... I'd like to know more about each particular story. What actually happened, why were they killed. Were they resisting arrest? Did they attack the police first?

George Floyd looks like a pretty clear cut example of police brutality and murder to me (accidental or intentional). The same exact thing has happened to white criminals too (without rioting afterwards) just look up Tony Timpa. When it happens, the police need to be held accountable (*not every officer in the country, only the guilty one!)

Brooks in Atlanta was a totally justified shooting in my book. You commit a crime, then resist arrest, then punch a cop, then steal his taser... you should expect to be shot. Happens to white criminals too.

How many of these unarmed "police brutality" killings were not preceeded by criminal activity, resisting arrest, and violence against the police first? Serious question. Do we have other examples by name?
 
GreenMachineX

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This "number" of blacks unjustly killed by white police officers.... I'd like to know more about each particular story. What actually happened, why were they killed. Were they resisting arrest? Did they attack the police first?

George Floyd looks like a pretty clear cut example of police brutality and murder to me (accidental or intentional). The same exact thing has happened to white criminals too (without rioting afterwards) just look up Tony Timpa. When it happens, the police need to be held accountable (*not every officer in the country, only the guilty one!)

Brooks in Atlanta was a totally justified shooting in my book. You commit a crime, then resist arrest, then punch a cop, then steal his taser... you should expect to be shot. Happens to white criminals too.

How many of these unarmed "police brutality" killings were not preceeded by criminal activity, resisting arrest, and violence against the police first? Serious question. Do we have other examples by name?
Wow! I never heard of the Timpa story and that one was even more tragic! The man who actually called 911 ended up dead...but, that wasn’t all over the news, was it?
 
BamBam54

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Also look up Justine Damond - white australian woman murdered by black Somalia cop in Minneapolis. Australians were pissed, but didn't riot.

More than enough tragedy to go around. Would love to have a great solution, but I do not. Hopefully these incidents remain rare and are not exploited for political gain.
 
Bagofturdwind

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i grew up poor in a predominately black neighborhood...it has less to do with color of skin than it does with finances-poor people of ALL colors will be treated with less respect and dignity than the more affluent---race is secondary to money....

i've said it once and will say it again---the only color that matters is green!!!!
I understand what you’re saying here, and yes money matters. Your rich black Americans that turn up their charm are treated very well — e.g. OJ in his heyday and Michael Jordan. But there’s a reason they were treated so well. They continually ignored public affairs that would make them be perceived as black, and they refused to say/do anything that would stir the pot. Everything was PR and seeing green; they didn’t want to behave in any manner that would make white people uncomfortable in fear of their image and finances taking a hit. It’s quite ironic for OJ in the end. However, let’s be real, these two are such a small fraction of how black people experience the American life. Most people aren’t super rich, and many black Americans grow up in cities in which they have their own dialogue, own way of dressing, and unique personalities — the very things that make white suburbia or middle America uncomfortable. This is why intentional and unintentional microaggressions become a thing. I’m sure it wasn’t easy being poor as a kid, but here’s the thing, once you age, being poor isn’t a part of your physical being. No one knows from looking at you now that you were poor. However, everyone knows someone is black upon sight and reflexively has their microaggressions and preconceived beliefs.

This is the last thing I’ll say about this topic, and then I’ll leave it alone, and I hope people consider this. The best analogy I’ve heard is that typical American lives are like swimming across a river with different currents. It’s rarely easy — for anyone. Nonetheless, there’s a group of ultra rich people that have the current strongly at their back while they swim to the other side. It’s easier for them. There’s your average white American life, which requires a lot of work and is like swimming with a side current pushing you from left to right as you try to get to the other side. It certainly takes a lot of work. Then there’s the average black American life, which has the current completely against them. It takes a ton of work and stamina. Life is rarely easy for anyone, but we’d be remiss to ignore the extra effort it takes by black Americans to overcome obstacles and get to the other side. Idk why people can’t just consider that.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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I will just leave this here for your utter enjoyment or dismay.. which ever.
 
BamBam54

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Bagofturdwind - do your not even see how offensive and insensitive it is for you to use a SWIMMING analogy to describe the plight of blacks in America. Holy cow!!!

Another case of white privilege when you don't really understand the issue (or seemingly care) at all. Push push push out the virtue signaling talking points, but really see and hear nothing at all. Bummer for the cause....
 
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Bagofturdwind - do your not even see how offensive and insensitive it is for you to use a SWIMMING analogy to describe the plight of blacks in America. Holy cow!!!

Another case of white privilege when you don't really understand the issue (or seemingly care) at all. Push push push out the virtue signaling talking points, but really see and hear nothing at all. Bummer for the cause....
You surely can’t be serious.... you think I made that analogy up? I literally said this is an analogy I’ve heard. Guess who I’ve heard it from? Influential black leaders. I do appreciate you looking out for black people’s feelings on this matter though. It’s kind of funny that the same people that yell “snowflake” at the left get all bent out of shape and offended by racial discourse. Instead of continually finding an issue with extremely trivial things in my rather benign posts, please reevaluate why you have an unwavering commitment to nitpick verbiage instead of looking at the significance of what’s actually being said. Thanks.
 
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thebigt

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I understand what you’re saying here, and yes money matters. Your rich black Americans that turn up their charm are treated very well — e.g. OJ in his heyday and Michael Jordan. But there’s a reason they were treated so well. They continually ignored public affairs that would make them be perceived as black, and they refused to say/do anything that would stir the pot. Everything was PR and seeing green; they didn’t want to behave in any manner that would make white people uncomfortable in fear of their image and finances taking a hit. It’s quite ironic for OJ in the end. However, let’s be real, these two are such a small fraction of how black people experience the American life. Most people aren’t super rich, and many black Americans grow up in cities in which they have their own dialogue, own way of dressing, and unique personalities — the very things that make white suburbia or middle America uncomfortable. This is why intentional and unintentional microaggressions become a thing. I’m sure it wasn’t easy being poor as a kid, but here’s the thing, once you age, being poor isn’t a part of your physical being. No one knows from looking at you now that you were poor. However, everyone knows someone is black upon sight and reflexively has their microaggressions and preconceived beliefs.

This is the last thing I’ll say about this topic, and then I’ll leave it alone, and I hope people consider this. The best analogy I’ve heard is that typical American lives are like swimming across a river with different currents. It’s rarely easy — for anyone. Nonetheless, there’s a group of ultra rich people that have the current strongly at their back while they swim to the other side. It’s easier for them. There’s your average white American life, which requires a lot of work and is like swimming with a side current pushing you from left to right as you try to get to the other side. It certainly takes a lot of work. Then there’s the average black American life, which has the current completely against them. It takes a ton of work and stamina. Life is rarely easy for anyone, but we’d be remiss to ignore the extra effort it takes by black Americans to overcome obstacles and get to the other side. Idk why people can’t just consider that.
in AA and NA your attitude would be what is called a enabler.
 
HIT4ME

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I understand what you’re saying here, and yes money matters. Your rich black Americans that turn up their charm are treated very well — e.g. OJ in his heyday and Michael Jordan. But there’s a reason they were treated so well. They continually ignored public affairs that would make them be perceived as black, and they refused to say/do anything that would stir the pot. Everything was PR and seeing green; they didn’t want to behave in any manner that would make white people uncomfortable in fear of their image and finances taking a hit. It’s quite ironic for OJ in the end. However, let’s be real, these two are such a small fraction of how black people experience the American life. Most people aren’t super rich, and many black Americans grow up in cities in which they have their own dialogue, own way of dressing, and unique personalities — the very things that make white suburbia or middle America uncomfortable. This is why intentional and unintentional microaggressions become a thing. I’m sure it wasn’t easy being poor as a kid, but here’s the thing, once you age, being poor isn’t a part of your physical being. No one knows from looking at you now that you were poor. However, everyone knows someone is black upon sight and reflexively has their microaggressions and preconceived beliefs.

This is the last thing I’ll say about this topic, and then I’ll leave it alone, and I hope people consider this. The best analogy I’ve heard is that typical American lives are like swimming across a river with different currents. It’s rarely easy — for anyone. Nonetheless, there’s a group of ultra rich people that have the current strongly at their back while they swim to the other side. It’s easier for them. There’s your average white American life, which requires a lot of work and is like swimming with a side current pushing you from left to right as you try to get to the other side. It certainly takes a lot of work. Then there’s the average black American life, which has the current completely against them. It takes a ton of work and stamina. Life is rarely easy for anyone, but we’d be remiss to ignore the extra effort it takes by black Americans to overcome obstacles and get to the other side. Idk why people can’t just consider that.
What behaviors, exactly, would make you see someone as black, as bolded above? Would not displaying these behaviors make you see them as "not black"?

This is not a bash against you, this type of issue is prevalent in many people who jump into these types of situations. I am sure I have some bias, even if it is slight, because it is human nature.

And this is not just you - it goes all the way up to the presidency, as it is exactly the type of thing Biden said, "If you are having trouble deciding between me or Trump, you ain't black!" As if your behavior determines whether you are part of a culture that shares your skin color or not. As if you are part of a culture because of your skin color to begin with.

We are talking about someone's skin color. Not their culture, nor their behaviors, etc.

Now if you want to talk about poverty, then we are no longer limiting it to the color of one's skin.

As far as not wanting to "behave in a manner that would make white people uncomfortable" - to a large extent a lot of white people behave this way as well. Most people don't want to go outside of societal norms.

Now, once we get beyond skin color, if someone chooses to brand themselves as part of a gang, or behave in certain ways that are associated with criminal behavior - are you saying that it is wrong to want to avoid or even eliminate that behavior? I would see that as a basic survival instinct.

You are also incorrect - studies have shown that people are incredibly good at judging the financial status of others on sight. It's incredible, but you can "sense" someone who is poor and someone who is not based on micro behaviors that apparently most people are subconsciously attuned to. It's hard to shake.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and this discussion should be had and is actually welcome in my eyes. The rioting and misinformation and double-standard for what versions of racism are OK vs. which version is not OK is something I think often goes unnoticed.

Keep up the debate. I don't agree with you, but I get where you're coming from.
 
Bagofturdwind

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in AA and NA your attitude would be what is called a enabler.
You’re right. Whenever someone in AA speaks, the rest of the group tells them they’re being dramatic and to get over it and quit being a crybaby.

It’s not enabling to acknowledge an ex-alcoholic’s sobriety is going to be more difficult than your average joe’s. It’s not even about the excuse making for them either. It’s having the understanding to say, “sh*t that’s gotta be difficult for them at times; if I can make life a little better for them, maybe I should.”
 
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Wow! I never heard of the Timpa story and that one was even more tragic! The man who actually called 911 ended up dead...but, that wasn’t all over the news, was it?
That’s the one with the video I believe correct? Dude in the hallway crawling towards the cops and they blast him to smithereens while he calls for his mama? Yeah, Floyd got nothin on that one.
 
SkRaw85

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That’s the one with the video I believe correct? Dude in the hallway crawling towards the cops and they blast him to smithereens while he calls for his mama? Yeah, Floyd got nothin on that one.
Nope that a different one. I’ll have to dig for the one I’m thinking of.
 
Bagofturdwind

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What behaviors, exactly, would make you see someone as black, as bolded above? Would not displaying these behaviors make you see them as "not black"?

This is not a bash against you, this type of issue is prevalent in many people who jump into these types of situations. I am sure I have some bias, even if it is slight, because it is human nature.

And this is not just you - it goes all the way up to the presidency, as it is exactly the type of thing Biden said, "If you are having trouble deciding between me or Trump, you ain't black!" As if your behavior determines whether you are part of a culture that shares your skin color or not. As if you are part of a culture because of your skin color to begin with.

We are talking about someone's skin color. Not their culture, nor their behaviors, etc.

Now if you want to talk about poverty, then we are no longer limiting it to the color of one's skin.

As far as not wanting to "behave in a manner that would make white people uncomfortable" - to a large extent a lot of white people behave this way as well. Most people don't want to go outside of societal norms.

Now, once we get beyond skin color, if someone chooses to brand themselves as part of a gang, or behave in certain ways that are associated with criminal behavior - are you saying that it is wrong to want to avoid or even eliminate that behavior? I would see that as a basic survival instinct.

You are also incorrect - studies have shown that people are incredibly good at judging the financial status of others on sight. It's incredible, but you can "sense" someone who is poor and someone who is not based on micro behaviors that apparently most people are subconsciously attuned to. It's hard to shake.

I'm not saying you're wrong, and this discussion should be had and is actually welcome in my eyes. The rioting and misinformation and double-standard for what versions of racism are OK vs. which version is not OK is something I think often goes unnoticed.

Keep up the debate. I don't agree with you, but I get where you're coming from.
Thanks for a normal response. The debate is exhausting when people continually fail to see the larger point. They get bogged down in little details that can derail it — then they’ve won. This isn’t you. Just most of the others in this thread.

I live in a city. I actually teach at an inner city school. Do I have some bias to speak on behalf of the black students in my classroom and absorb what the black leaders in my community say? Absolutely. But I feel I need to when so many other white Americans dismiss it when it comes out of their mouths. I’ll be 100% honest with you. Before getting involved within the inner city community years ago, I was dismissive about some of these issues. The difference is when people started to speak up, I started to listen and tried to self-reflect rather than deflect and deny what they’re saying.

There are defining characteristics of black America. Consider over half of black Americans live in only 10 states and a majority live in cities. Of course there are outliers that would make certain characteristics atypical, but you get my larger point.

On the matter of being able to identify people as wealthy or not sight on scene, I’d argue that’s kind of the point. We’re already equipped with some bias and feelings toward said person, as you mentioned. Much is the same with black America — especially black men in street clothes. It’s not lying to yourself saying, “I don’t see color” as much as it is “I see your color and recognize any preconceived notions and expectations I may have” and working tirelessly to fix this. How can you fix something if you don’t even acknowledge it? This question isn’t a personal attack on anyone. It’s a more fundamental question posed to the general public. That’s really my main issue in this thread. People take things so personal and don’t want to acknowledge a problem may exist. They abruptly throw some misdirection in there to stray from the root of the problem.
 
thebigt

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You’re right. Whenever someone in AA speaks, the rest of the group tells them they’re being dramatic and to get over it and quit being a crybaby.

It’s not enabling to acknowledge an ex-alcoholic’s sobriety is going to be more difficult than your average joe’s. It’s not even about the excuse making for them either. It’s having the understanding to say, “sh*t that’s gotta be difficult for them at times; if I can make life a little better for them, maybe I should.”
you are forgetting one important thing...personal responsibility-that is what AA teaches.

lol...you should have met my AA sponsor, he was about as understanding as a brickwall..RIP Willie
 
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