Anyone still supporting Trump?

[Young Gotti]

So, no part of Social Security is socialist? Ok. Where do you land on public roads, libraries, security (police), Fire Departments, etc.?

So, no part of Social Security is socialist? Ok. Where do you land on public roads, libraries, security (police), Fire Departments, etc.?

Police,fire, military...no

Libraries...yes

 

[nostrum420]

Police,fire, military...no

Why not? I'm forced to pay into them and accept their services...

 

[Young Gotti]

Why not? I'm forced to pay into them and accept their services...

They are necessities for society to function...hence they should be provided by the govt

 

[Aleksandar37]

They are necessities for society to function...hence they should be provided by the govt

You've never heard of a volunteer fire department?

 

[ax1]

No...not everyone is entitled to social security, you need to qualify and pay in....some professions dont even pay into it

Using medicare for all as an example, you are forced into it weather you paid for it or not and you get the same care regardless of how much if any taxes you've paid

SS they steal your earned money via force and give it back to you just like socialism, its just a trick to get people on the program. There isnt even a choice to opt out other than not work or break the law.

They are necessities for society to function...hence they should be provided by the govt

Police and fire are not necessities for a society to function. There can be run by the private sector or communities can gather and be self reliant.

 

[Young Gotti]

SS they steal your earned money via force and give it back to you just like socialism, its just a trick to get people on the program. There isnt even a choice to opt out other than not work or break the law.




Police and fire are not necessities for a society to function. There can be run by the private sector or communities can gather and be self reliant.

Yeah that would be great...amazon,apple,google,and nike all start a private sector police force to enforce their own rules and regulations...that would go well

 

[Young Gotti]

You've never heard of a volunteer fire department?

I'm going to pretend like you didnt just post that hahahaha

 

[ax1]

Yeah that would be great...amazon,apple,google,and nike all start a private sector police force to enforce their own rules and regulations...that would go well

The role of government is to enforce the US Constitution, the 2nd Amendments role is for self defense and also to protect our Constitutional Rights. Thats the only service people depend on. If police cross the line it will be taken care of. Also, people are opting in to purchase these services, without the source of income they will no longer function. Its not really complicated, its just and Ill say it again, you are a still thinking under the DOEd's system and conditioned to depend on government and lose self reliance.

 

[ax1]

You've never heard of a volunteer fire department?

Im taking strong attention to this post

 

[Young Gotti]

The role of government is to enforce the US Constitution, the 2nd Amendments role is for self defense and also to protect our Constitutional Rights. Thats the only service people depend on. If police cross the line it will be taken care of. Also, people are opting in to purchase these services, without the source of income they will no longer function. Its not really complicated, its just and Ill say it again, you are a still thinking under the DOEd's system and conditioned to depend on government and lose self reliance.

Has nothing to do with doed...this is just common knowledge

The **** your talking about is wild imagination

 

[ax1]

Yeah that would be great...amazon,apple,google,and nike all start a private sector police force to enforce their own rules and regulations...that would go well

And to tell you the truth Ill take Amazon any day over crappy heavy beuracratic expensive shytty government services.

 

[ax1]

Has nothing to do with doed...this is just common knowledge

The **** your talking about is wild imagination

And I know where you developed and conditioned to this claimed "common knowledge."

 

[Young Gotti]

And I know where you developed and conditioned to this claimed "common knowledge."

Hey if you want to live in some fantasy land...by all means, but dont expect the real world to share those ideas

 

[ax1]

Hey if you want to live in some fantasy land...by all means, but dont expect the real world to share those ideas

Whats your problem with the ideas?

 

[Young Gotti]

Whats your problem with the ideas?

They lack reality

I'm going to go out a limb and say ppl do not believe the 2nd amendement is all they need for protection

Or that the governments role is only to uphold the constitution

There are ppl out there right now trying to infringe on the 2nd amendment and expand govt...so yeah, I'm going to say it's not a sound way of thinking

 

[ax1]

They lack reality

I'm going to go out a limb and say ppl do not believe the 2nd amendement is all they need for protection

Or that the governments role is only to uphold the constitution

There are ppl out there right now trying to infringe on the 2nd amendment and expand govt...so yeah, I'm going to say it's not a sound way of thinking

Honestly, I really dont mind having police didnt mean it that way. I support them, just dislike some policies which I take out on the politicians and not them. They are the least of our problems.

Public Police forces are socialist systems and they have each have socialist benefits as well.

 

[Young Gotti]

Honestly, I really dont mind having police didnt mean it that way. I support them, just dislike some policies which I take out on the politicians and not them. They are the least of our problems.

Public Police forces are socialist systems and they have each have socialist benefits as well.

Well this discussion has been hashed out many times

Usually the outcome is police, fire departments, military, and road depots are not considered socialist

 

[nostrum420]

They are necessities for society to function...hence they should be provided by the govt

Actually for a long time in the US those things were privatized.

 

[Aleksandar37]

I'm going to pretend like you didnt just post that hahahaha

You seem to pretend pretty much everything.

 

[Young Gotti]

You seem to pretend pretty much everything.

Good one buddy

 

[Young Gotti]

Actually for a long time in the US those things were privatized.

That's fine and dandy but they are basic govt responsibilities regardless...which is why they are not considered socialist by nature

It is not the role of govt to provide health coverage which is why medicare for all is considered a socialist plan

 

[justhere4comm]

Get rid of privatized BS insurance companies that inflate prices... I let Adam explain it but closed minds will remain closed minds no matter how many facts are presented.

Tell me what is wrong with healthcare for all?
I guess if you don't pay, you don't get to live, or go bankrupt in the process like my parents.
Both died from cancer and it took more than their lives.

 

[Young Gotti]

Get rid of privatized BS insurance companies that inflate prices... I let Adam explain it but closed minds will remain closed minds no matter how many facts are presented.

Tell me what is wrong with healthcare for all?
I guess if you don't pay, you don't get to live, or go bankrupt in the process like my parents.
Both died from cancer and it took more than their lives.

You do realize adam has been exposed for his ignorance on a majority of topics time and time again right?


At this point Medicare for all has been debunked so hard, I'm not sure how ppl still support it

Hell even ppl who want some sort of universal healthcare think its garbage as they continue to destroy it at debates

 

[ax1]

Tell me what is wrong with healthcare for all?

Your forcing people to buy into these services against their will and your also forcing doctors and other health care professionals to provide a service. This is a human rights issue.

Get rid of privatized BS insurance companies that inflate prices... I let Adam explain it but closed minds will remain closed minds no matter how many facts are presented.

Absolutely not, why would I want to rid of the concept of having a service I can opt in to pay for that measures risk and puts a market price on it that will protect me in case something really bad happens?

Why not just get rid of lobby in Washington, abolish the fascist corporate/government system and allow customers to simply go to the doctor and pay them directly eliminating a monstrous bureaucracy that has made health care so affordable.

Tell me what is wrong with healthcare for all?

Back to this, our injured troops have health care and in order to cut costs they were thrown in VA hostpital basements to die even though they had treatable injuries/illness.

Heath-care for all and I dont have a choice or be punished? No thanks, government dependency bye! Time to sell off the post office too, government sucks.

 

[Young Gotti]

Your forcing people to buy into these services against their will and your also forcing doctors and other health care professionals to provide a service. This is a human rights issue.



Absolutely not, why would I want to rid of the concept of having a service I can opt in to pay for that measures risk and puts a market price on it that will protect me in case something really bad happens?

Why not just get rid of lobby in Washington, abolish the fascist corporate/government system and allow customers to simply go to the doctor and pay them directly eliminating a monstrous bureaucracy that has made health care so affordable.



Back to this, our injured troops have health care and in order to cut costs they were thrown in VA hostpital basements to die even though they had treatable injuries/illness.

Heath-care for all and I dont have a choice or be punished? No thanks, government dependency bye! Time to sell off the post office too, government sucks.

You dont like basement hospital beds?

If your selling the post office...can we include Amtrak too?

 

[nostrum420]

That's fine and dandy but they are basic govt responsibilities regardless...which is why they are not considered socialist by nature

It is not the role of govt to provide health coverage which is why medicare for all is considered a socialist plan

But the US was fine and dandy for decades without the government providing these necessities. Isn't the government providing necessities socialism? Food, clothing and medical care necessities.

And is this what you've decided the role of government is or are you basing that on something?

 

[Young Gotti]

But the US was fine and dandy for decades without the government providing these necessities. Isn't the government providing necessities socialism? Food, clothing and medical care necessities.

And is this what you've decided the role of government is or are you basing that on something?

No it's not considered socialism if it falls within the normal guidelines of the govt duties

This is part of bernies arguement for Medicare for all as I type...he believes it is the govt duties to provide medical care...I do not

 

[nostrum420]

No it's not considered socialism if it falls within the normal guidelines of the govt duties

This is part of bernies arguement for Medicare for all as I type...he believes it is the govt duties to provide medical care...I do not

Who decides on these guidelines? Are they written somewhere?

 

[Young Gotti]

Who decides on these guidelines? Are they written somewhere?

The forefathers did

"To provide a common defense"

 

[ax1]

The forefathers did

"To provide a common defense"

This is often taken out of context though, the government still must stay in the scope of the powers delegated...as in another branch of government or power cant be created such as the NSA or FBI....I think, Im not a Constitutional expert.

 

[justhere4comm]

My father and his brother received great care at the VA.
I went with him for two years. No complaints only great stories I carry with me today.

I'm going to share a story:
One of them if you will: I was chatting with one of his doctors and he left the room to go to
the bathroom. When I was done, I walked into the outer area which was filled with people.
I was instantly wondering where my dad was.

A man in the corner raised his hand and pointed saying, your dad went that way...
I thanked the gent and as I walked away, he said, we watch out for one another.

Jesus was a socialist.

 

[Young Gotti]

My father and his brother received great care at the VA.
I went with him for two years. No complaints only great stories I carry with me today.

I'm going to share a story:
One of them if you will: I was chatting with one of his doctors and he left the room to go to
the bathroom. When I was done, I walked into the outer area which was filled with people.
I was instantly wondering where my dad was.

A man in the corner raised his hand and pointed saying, your dad went that way...
I thanked the gent and as I walked away, he said, we watch out for one another.

Jesus was a socialist.

You been listening to kanye west?

This is often taken out of context though, the government still must stay in the scope of the powers delegated...as in another branch of government or power cant be created such as the NSA or FBI....I think, Im not a Constitutional expert.

A lot of the constitution is often taken out of context

But do you think it's out of context to expect the govt to provide those type of things...now what they do after that with them is a different story

 

[nostrum420]

The forefathers did

"To provide a common defense"

What about insuring domestic tranquility or promoting the general welfare?

 

[Young Gotti]

What about insuring domestic tranquility or promoting the general welfare?

What about it? That's part of it

The govt does that

 

[nostrum420]

What about it? That's part of it

The govt does that

Wouldn't publicly financing healthcare the same way we do police, fire departments, etc. promote the general welfare?

 

[nostrum420]

No it's not considered socialism if it falls within the normal guidelines of the govt duties

This is part of bernies arguement for Medicare for all as I type...he believes it is the govt duties to provide medical care...I do not

Also I didn't see that exemption in Webster's or any other definition.

 

[Young Gotti]

Also I didn't see that exemption in Webster's or any other definition.

You wouldnt need to see an exception, it's pretty clear in the definition that it does not fit

 

[ax1]

But do you think it's out of context to expect the govt to provide those type of things...now what they do after that with them is a different story

If you jump to the 10th Amendment it states:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

As I read it, I think that can be up to the states....or the people so its optional. We can reject these services and can police ourselves as long as we arent infringing on the Constitution.

 

[Young Gotti]

Wouldn't publicly financing healthcare the same way we do police, fire departments, etc. promote the general welfare?

It would not...no

The govt is good with prevent outbreaks and things like that but not to take care of every health issue....there is an obvious difference

 

[Young Gotti]

If you jump to the 10th Amendment it states:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people

As I read it, I think that can be up to the states....or the people so its optional. We can reject these services and can police ourselves as long as we arent infringing on the Constitution.

I mean personally I'm ok with that, but I doubt majority it America feels that way and that's where I'm commenting from

 

[nostrum420]

You wouldnt need to see an exception, it's pretty clear in the definition that it does not fit

But the government owns the means of production for public security and public fire protection. Those are both things that could be sold privately and again, at one time, were.

The government owning the means of production for a given industry is socialism even by your very strict definition.

 

[nostrum420]

It would not...no

The govt is good with prevent outbreaks and things like that but not to take care of every health issue....there is an obvious difference

The gov isn't providing the care, they're just paying for it the same way State Farm doesn't actually fix your car, they help you finance paying a service provider of your chouce.

 

[ax1]

I mean personally I'm ok with that, but I doubt majority it America feels that way and that's where I'm commenting from

I think I can get people on the same page as me. Im actually very down with police on a local, county and state level rather than people take it all on our own hands. If they want to have state FBI or something thats cool. Id vote for all that, or politicians that support that but it needs to not be financed via income tax (its possible for someone like me to compromise at the end.) Federal police forces are not authorized by the Constitution as far as I understand and is a horrible idea, but not claiming they do everything wrong either.

 

[Young Gotti]

But the government owns the means of production for public security and public fire protection. Those are both things that could be sold privately and again, at one time, were.

The government owning the means of production for a given industry is socialism even by your very strict definition.

You are conflating basic fundamental goods to fit into the definition...do you not see how it doesnt fit into the basic definition?

 

[nostrum420]

You are conflating basic fundamental goods to fit into the definition...do you not see how it doesnt fit into the basic definition?

I do not. Enlighten me.

 

[ax1]

Jesus was a socialist.

Everybody has a right to help people, and should. Giving a group of people the power to steal from others at gunpoint via a armed militia and forcing charity taking the power of choice from the individual is just unethical. Thats what causes more greed, people cant afford to voluntarily give as much once money and choice is already stolen from them.

 

[nostrum420]

You are conflating basic fundamental goods to fit into the definition...do you not see how it doesnt fit into the basic definition?

Also, what am I conflating goods with?

 

[Young Gotti]

Also, what am I conflating goods with?

Basic and fundamental "goods" vs means of production and distribution of goods

What you are basically saying is the govt providing liberty and rights to live is the same as socialism and by the definition I'm seeing something totally different

 

[nostrum420]

Basic and fundamental "goods" vs means of production and distribution of goods

What you are basically saying is the govt providing liberty and rights to live is the same as socialism and by the definition I'm seeing something totally different

According to Oxford University Press, Basic Goods would include healthcare:


"Basic goods include nutritious food, clean water, sanitation, health services, education services, housing, electricity, and human security services."

Basic goods as basic rights

f we were to try summarizing the many statements on human rights within the United Nations system, it might be as follows: basic goods are basic rights. True, there was an old approach to human rights that focused exclusively on “negative” political rights and cast doubt on “positive”...

blog.oup.com

 

[Young Gotti]

According to Oxford University Press, Basic Goods would include healthcare:


"Basic goods include nutritious food, clean water, sanitation, health services, education services, housing, electricity, and human security services."

Basic goods as basic rights

f we were to try summarizing the many statements on human rights within the United Nations system, it might be as follows: basic goods are basic rights. True, there was an old approach to human rights that focused exclusively on “negative” political rights and cast doubt on “positive”...

blog.oup.com

What do you think Medicare, medicaid, and ER care for insured or non insured is?