Anyone know the anabolic ratio of M1 Alpha?

JoePaul39

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I know it’s predecessor M1T had one of the highest anabolic ratios of any steroid. Curious, does anyone know the anabolic ratio for it’s “son” M1 Alpha. I know it only converts to M1T at about 25 percent so it couldn’t be near as high as M1T.
 
StarScream66

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Oh boy, this is right up @StarScream66 alley
Well, I do have a copy of the Vida book that has every listed steroid every and their A:A ratio, but I'd have to know the exact name of the molecule and depending on the nomenclature, what they called it in the book. As a matter of fact, I found it on Google Books and you can hunt for it yourself for free so I don't have to. :)


But, honestly, those values aren't really that applicable to real word scenarios, since they testing methods used testing said steroid only on the levator ani organ in rats - not skeletal muscle.
 
StarScream66

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Just out of my own curiosity, I tried to find M1-Alpha, but it looks like it's not in the book. The name of the chemical compound is either Methyl-1-etiocholenolol or Methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone


Since it's a precursor to a precursor it's probably something they didn't investigate because no one probably ever anticipated they would be using stuff like this since it's such a convoluted way of making a compound. It's meant to skirt the legal restrictions on it, not to necessarily be efficient. But, you can look at the study (there's only 1) on 1AD/1-DHEA and see that it's quite effective.


But, the methylated version would stay methylated all the way downstream, so as it converts to 1-test it would be methyl-1-test eventually, so presumably it would be better (assuming it's not converting to methyl-estrogen as well, which it very well could be). But, the molecule itself is a 4 carbon atom that is a steroid, so it might interact with androgen receptors directly as well. But, since it's 17 alpha alkalated (methylated) you do you have to worry about the liver effects it's having, so definitely take some NAC with it.
 
justhere4comm

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Well, I do have a copy of the Vida book that has every listed steroid every and their A:A ratio, but I'd have to know the exact name of the molecule and depending on the nomenclature, what they called it in the book. As a matter of fact, I found it on Google Books and you can hunt for it yourself for free so I don't have to. :)


But, honestly, those values aren't really that applicable to real word scenarios, since they testing methods used testing said steroid only on the levator ani organ in rats - not skeletal muscle.
It's an $800 book.
Where did you get it? (Published 1969)
 
StarScream66

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It's an $800 book.
Where did you get it? (Published 1969)
I have friends in high places. :) William Llewellyn just sent me a brand new copy of his Anabolics 11th edition and it looks excellent, I haven't had the chance to crack it open yet. If you're looking for any specific books, let me know. I'll PM you a copy of the Vida book in PDF format.

But, the one on Google Books I just happened upon in a search. I believe it's a full copy of the book. Why it's free on Google Books, I have no idea. I assume because it's such an old research book they have it accessible.

It's also possible to get the text of full studies that are behind a paywall using either the extension Unpaywall or Sci-Hub.
 

dvw

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Methyl 1 androstenediol is 1 step conversion to methyl 1 testosterone. M1A is active on its own and binds to the androgen receptor. Other than trestolone it's strongest designer steroid currently available that's not a controlled substance
 
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StarScream66

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Methyl 1 andostenediol is 1 step conversion to methyl 1 testosterone. M1A is active on its own and binds to the androgen receptor. Other than trestolone it's strongest designer steroid currently available that's not a controlled substance
I don't believe that's correct, but I could be wrong. I believe it's 1-methyl-1DHEA, which is a two step conversion to 1-test. But it is a 4 carbon atom steroid in itself and can bind to the androgen receptor on it's own.
 

JoePaul39

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I don't believe that's correct, but I could be wrong. I believe it's 1-methyl-1DHEA, which is a two step conversion to 1-test. But it is a 4 carbon atom steroid in itself and can bind to the androgen receptor on it's own.
Do you agree with him on his point that it is the strongest steroid on the gray market still sold by some supplement companies in the USA?
 

dvw

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I don't believe that's correct, but I could be wrong. I believe it's 1-methyl-1DHEA, which is a two step conversion to 1-test. But it is a 4 carbon atom steroid in itself and can bind to the androgen receptor on it's own.
M1A or Alpha 1 is methyl 1 anrdostenediol. I don't know what compound you're talking about. Methyl 1 androstenediol is Methyl 1 androstenediol.
 
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dvw

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Methyl 1 etiochoenolol is Methyl 1 androstenediol or M1A. A designer steroid that has been sold online by retailers for 15 years. It's not new
 
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StarScream66

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Methyl 1 etiochoenolol is Methyl 1 androstenediol or M1A. A designer steroid that has been sold online by retailers for 15 years. It's not new
Ok, but 1-andro has been on the DEA scheduled list since like 2005. So, it must be sold in gray/black market sellers because there's no way it could be sold openly like that. I assumed it was 1-methyl-1DHEA because when I searched for what the ingredients were it came back as Methyl-1-Etiocholenolol-Epietiocholanolone, which is not androstenediol, but the two step conversion of 1DHEA. But maybe that's just nomenclature that I'm not following.
 
StarScream66

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Do you agree with him on his point that it is the strongest steroid on the gray market still sold by some supplement companies in the USA?
Strongest is kind of an ambiguous term. It depends on what you want to base that assessment on. If you look at the anabolic to androgenic ratio numbers, like I mentioned above, those were just tested on rat prostates and the levator ani, and that really doesn't apply to real world because it was never tested on skeletal muscle in humans.

1-test is dihydroboldenone, which is a very potent steroid, and it has a very good anabolic potential with not to many androgenic sides, which is ideally what you want. When it's methylated, it has some conversion to estrogen and that estrogen becomes methylated as well, and a very very strong estrogen. However, it's conversion is low to none so that's not something to worry about. It is hepatoxic, however, so you would want to be making sure your liver values are good on a blood test when taking it and not overdo it.

Hope that makes since,
-SS

EDIT: Corrected the estrogen topic thanks to info from @dvw
 
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dvw

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Methyl 1 androstenediol doesn't convert methylestrodiol or methyl estrogen. You are giving bad advice about a compound you know nothing about
 

dvw

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It can not be sold as "dietary supplement". But it's not a controlled substance. Therefore it has been sold by online retailers for 15 years
 
StarScream66

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You're right, I don't know a lot about this compound, but I know a lot about DHB aka 1-test and M1T. If this is a precursor to this, it acts in the same way. There doesn't appear to be a lot of information out there about this drug. But I can tell you for a fact that 1-androstenediol/dione are both scheduled drugs under the DEA's scheduling list, and as this is just a methylated form it could be considered a salt of that drug and potentially be banned as well. But, you may know more about it than me. As a consumer it would be nothing to be worried about, in legal terms, as they only go after suppliers and not consumers.
I have never seen it sold openly anywhere, but I haven't looked around for it.


The only real mention of it on a Google search is that M&M article you linked which only references "Roberts, S (2009). Anabolic Pharmacology.". I'll have to see if I can find a copy of that and see if there is any actual research on this compound.

However, I did read through the profile for M1T in Anabolics 11th ed and found the following:

Methyl-1-testosterone

Side Effects (Estrogenic):
Although not studied, it is believed that the ody does not appreciably aromatize methyl-1-testosterone. It is of note, however, that this steroid likely has inherent progestational activity. The side effects associated with progesterone are similar to those of estrogen, including negative feedback inhibition of testosterone production and enhanced rate of fat storage. Progestins also augment the stimulatory effect of estrogens onmammary tissue growth. There appears to be a strong synergy between these two hormones here, such that gynecomastia might even occur with the help of progestins, without excessive estrogen levels. The use of anti-estrogen, which inhibits the estrogenic component of this disorder, is often sufficient to mitigate gynecomastia caused by progestational anabolic/androgenic steroids.
Source: Anabolics 11th ed by William Llewellyn
 

dvw

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You're right, I don't know a lot about this compound, but I know a lot about DHB aka 1-test and M1T. If this is a precursor to this, it acts in the same way. There doesn't appear to be a lot of information out there about this drug. But I can tell you for a fact that 1-androstenediol/dione are both scheduled drugs under the DEA's scheduling list, and as this is just a methylated form it could be considered a salt of that drug and potentially be banned as well. But, you may know more about it than me. As a consumer it would be nothing to be worried about, in legal terms, as they only go after suppliers and not consumers.
I have never seen it sold openly anywhere, but I haven't looked around for it.


The only real mention of it on a Google search is that M&M article you linked which only references "Roberts, S (2009). Anabolic Pharmacology.". I'll have to see if I can find a copy of that and see if there is any actual research on this compound.

However, I did read through the profile for M1T in Anabolics 11th ed and found the following:

Methyl-1-testosterone


Source: Anabolics 11th ed by William Llewellyn
Bud this compound has been discussed at length for over 10 years on this forum. It's been logged, reviewed and explained at length by chemist henryV and Patrick Arnold who were both board member and chemists. Search this forum for all the info
 
StarScream66

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Bud this compound has been discussed at length for over 10 years on this forum. It's been logged, reviewed and explained at length by chemist henryV and Patrick Arnold who were both board member and chemists. Search this forum for all the info
I understand what you're saying, but all I'm trying to say is that it is potentially illegal. Anyway, that's basically just theoretical. If it's been sold for that long, I can only guess it's just not on the FDA/DEA's radar.

I can dig up the thread's you're talking about, because I would love to learn more about it. Should I just search for "M1AD" by username 'Patrick Arnold', or is there one specific thread you can point me too.

It definitely sounds like you know a lot more about it than me, so I'm not trying to call you out or try and post false info myself. What I was posting above was based on not being sure what it was, but regardless, it still converts to methyl-1T and the info for 1T and M1T are still valid.

Thanks,
-SS
 
StarScream66

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So, I found the text referenced in the article you posted, and I thought I would share the steroid profile from the book here.

17-ALPHA-METHYL-I-ANDROSTENEDJOL
(none)
17-alpha-methyI-I-androstenediol


17-alpha-methyl-l-androstenediol is a prohormone that is not listed in the 2004 legislation. This prohormone is the diol version of methyl-I-testosterone and requires conversion to be fully active although it does have some activity in its own right. Only a portion of the dose taken will convert to methyl-I-test but because methyl-I-test is so potent a dose of only 20 mg of the prohormone seems to be sufficient to produce gains. This prohormone is toxic to the liver but at doses of 20 mg the
toxicity should be no more than effective doses of methandrostenolone. This prohonnone will likely convert at a rate of 10 to 20%, therefore, a dose of 20 mg of the prohormone will deliver a dose of 2 to 4 mg of MIT. This dose of MIT, along with the activity of the prohormone itself, produces significant gains without the side effects that many were experiencing with larger doses of MIT. The anabolic to androgenic ratio of this prohormone show it to be four times as anabolic as methyltestosterone with about the same level of androgenic activity. Neither the prohormone or MIT can convert to estrogenic metabolites through the actions of aromatase. Both however, are likely to inhibit II-betahydroxylase resulting in water retention and elevated blood pressure not to mention all of the potential androgenic side effects.

Source: Anabolic Pharmacology by Seth Roberts 2009

Unfortunately, the author gives no references to these claims, so it's based on his understanding of how it should work, as I assume there are no studies on it at all.
 
Smont

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Methyl 1 androstenediol is 1 step conversion to methyl 1 testosterone. M1A is active on its own and binds to the androgen receptor. Other than trestolone it's strongest designer steroid currently available that's not a controlled substance
Strongest in terms of what?
 

dvw

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45 mg of M1A for 4-6 weeks and 15-20 lbs gainz is common. Some go up to 60 mg. 30-45 mgs transdermal trestolone can give 15-20 lbs in short amount of time as well
 

dvw

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I understand what you're saying, but all I'm trying to say is that it is potentially illegal. Anyway, that's basically just theoretical. If it's been sold for that long, I can only guess it's just not on the FDA/DEA's radar.

I can dig up the thread's you're talking about, because I would love to learn more about it. Should I just search for "M1AD" by username 'Patrick Arnold', or is there one specific thread you can point me too.

It definitely sounds like you know a lot more about it than me, so I'm not trying to call you out or try and post false info myself. What I was posting above was based on not being sure what it was, but regardless, it still converts to methyl-1T and the info for 1T and M1T are still valid.

Thanks,
-SS
You're asking me how to use the "search tool" of anabolic minds forum? You're a smart fellow
 

dvw

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FDA DEA radar? Lmao. Maybe you shouldn't purchase it if your concern is if it's "illegal".
 
Smont

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Weight and size gainz
For me personally, zero weight or size gained on m1a. But I get really strong and a good pump on it. I'm not saying you can't get big on it. I've seen multiple people say they did but not me. I find dmz and msten better for size
 
Smont

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45 mg of M1A for 4-6 weeks and 15-20 lbs gainz is common. Some go up to 60 mg. 30-45 mgs transdermal trestolone can give 15-20 lbs in short amount of time as well
Oh and I tried it up to 90mg pre workout. Got nothing from it lower then 60. So when I use it now, strictly pre workout at 60-90mg on a day I'm trying to set a pr or break out a slump
 
StarScream66

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You're asking me how to use the "search tool" of anabolic minds forum? You're a smart fellow
I thought you might give me a keyword to aid in my search, instead of hunting through possibly hundreds of threads for it. There's no need to get passive aggressive about it.

FDA DEA radar? Lmao. Maybe you shouldn't purchase it if your concern is if it's "illegal".
Like I said, they only go after vendors, not consumers. I sent a tweet to Rick Collins to ask about it. I'll post what he says if he replies.
 

dvw

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For me personally, zero weight or size gained on m1a. But I get really strong and a good pump on it. I'm not saying you can't get big on it. I've seen multiple people say they did but not me. I find dmz and msten better for size
If you gained zero weight and size it was definitely bunk. What brand M1A did you run?
 

dvw

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I ran 45 mg for 30 days last year. Was premier research essentials. They're a board sponsor. High quality. Gained 11 lbs. I started at 223 lbs went up to 234 lbs. Was on approx. 500 calorie surplus for 30 days.
 

dvw

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So, I found the text referenced in the article you posted, and I thought I would share the steroid profile from the book here.


Source: Anabolic Pharmacology by Seth Roberts 2009

Unfortunately, the author gives no references to these claims, so it's based on his understanding of how it should work, as I assume there are no studies on it at all.
Author gives no reference to claims? Did you want author to have taken the compound and list his personal experience? Well you could search M1A or Alpha 1 logs on internet and in fact see what dozens of people claim who have taken it. Their personal account would in fact be their "reference" Peculiar guy you are
 

dvw

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So, I found the text referenced in the article you posted, and I thought I would share the steroid profile from the book here.


Source: Anabolic Pharmacology by Seth Roberts 2009

Unfortunately, the author gives no references to these claims, so it's based on his understanding of how it should work, as I assume there are no studies on it at all.
Author gives no reference to claims? Did you want author to have taken the compound and list his personal experience? Well you could search M1A or Alpha 1 logs on internet and in fact see what dozens of people claim who havev taken it. Their personal account would 8n fact be their "reference" Peculiar guy
For me personally, zero weight or size gained on m1a. But I get really strong and a good pump on it. I'm not saying you can't get big on it. I've seen multiple people say they did but not me. I find dmz and msten better for size
Maybe you got the 1-methyl-1dhea starscream66 is talking about?
 

JoePaul39

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I ran 45 mg for 30 days last year. Was premier research essentials. They're a board sponsor. High quality. Gained 11 lbs. I started at 223 lbs went up to 234 lbs. Was on approx. 500 calorie surplus for 30 days.
How much of the 11 pounds did you keep?
 

JoePaul39

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I ran 45 mg for 30 days last year. Was premier research essentials. They're a board sponsor. High quality. Gained 11 lbs. I started at 223 lbs went up to 234 lbs. Was on approx. 500 calorie surplus for 30 days.
Also, how were the sides (back pumps, high blood pressure, liver)?
 
Smont

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If you gained zero weight and size it was definitely bunk. What brand M1A did you run?
No it was not bunk, and I'm not the only person who has reacted that way to it. I have used medfit rx and another reputable brand that is slipping my mind at the moment.

Strength gains like a mofo. Just no size
 
Smont

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Author gives no reference to claims? Did you want author to have taken the compound and list his personal experience? Well you could search M1A or Alpha 1 logs on internet and in fact see what dozens of people claim who havev taken it. Their personal account would 8n fact be their "reference" Peculiar guy

Maybe you got the 1-methyl-1dhea starscream66 is talking about?
Nope. Ppl react differently to different stuff. Now superdrol... I gain like a pound per day
 

dvw

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I've only run M1A solo once. Other times I was taking other stuff stacked. But I personally felt M1A gave me a very fast increase in strength and size in only 4 weeks
 
StarScream66

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Author gives no reference to claims? Did you want author to have taken the compound and list his personal experience? Well you could search M1A or Alpha 1 logs on internet and in fact see what dozens of people claim who havev taken it. Their personal account would 8n fact be their "reference" Peculiar guy
Well, what I was looking for was something like how Anabolics 11th ed is written. Each section that the author discusses is generally based on referenced scientific studies or some type of research data. The article you linked from M&M used only the Seth Roberts book as a reference, and that reference is just based on the authors opinion of the compound, and not actual studies or scientific data.

So, you're right, probably the best 'research' we have on it is from logs. Btw, if you want a copy of the book, let me know.

Maybe you got the 1-methyl-1dhea starscream66 is talking about?
I'm not even aware such a compound exist. But, I know, for example, Hi Tech makes a product called 1AD which is 1DHEA that has the 2 step conversion to 1-test. I just assumed the name M1AD was just a marketing name, like 1AD is.
 

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