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anybody wanna recommend a good multivitamin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter 84bandit
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I like NOW Adam and ON's Opti Men.

MVP/ZMK by mst is a good option too, but too spendy for most, myself included.
 
mvp/zmk is the ****, but expensive. I'm not sure why most of us will skimp on basic nutrition, but there it is.

I alternate between mvp/zmk, Orange Triad, and a cheap Jarrow multi, depending on funds. I just ordered Orange Triad again today, I'm going to start up again because judo is tough on my joints. See if it helps.
 
I would say NOW also or Centrum Sport(or active or something, its a yellowish orange label.)

I think Centrum has a great reputation and is well worth the price.
 
poison said:
mvp/zmk is the ****, but expensive. I'm not sure why most of us will skimp on basic nutrition, but there it is.

I alternate between mvp/zmk, Orange Triad, and a cheap Jarrow multi, depending on funds. I just ordered Orange Triad again today, I'm going to start up again because judo is tough on my joints. See if it helps.
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could you let me know how triad treats you,i heard good things about it!
 
ive been using ON OptiMen the last two months. its 20 bucks for 2 months supple. 3 tablets a day, one with breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

its good i guess. i dont really notice anything with multis. more for peace of mind.

but it does turn your pee neon yellow. not bad, just odd the first time it happens haha
 
LatSpread said:
I feel the extras with OT are good (joint, digestion, immune), but the actually multi v&m component is lacking.
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OT (orange) compared to ADAM (blue):
Vitamin A(as Beta Carotene) 10000IU
Beta Carotene(as Pro-Vitamin A 6mg) 10,000IU

Vitamin C(as Ascorbic Acid) 350mg
Vitamin C(from Calcium Ascorbate) 350mg

Vitamin D(as Ergocalciferol) 400IU
Vitamin D(as Ergocalciferol) 400IU

Vitamin E(as D-Alpha Tocopheryl) 200IU
Vitamin E(from D-Alpha Tocopheryl Succinate) 200IU

Vitamin B12(as Cyanocobalamin) 250mcg
Vitamin B12(as Methylcobalamin) 250mcg
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I could go on like this, but you get the picture. Feel free to compare them for yourself.
 
bslick69b said:
could you let me know how triad treats you,i heard good things about it!
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Oh, I've used 3-4 bottles before, but had no joint issues to test it out on, so I stopped using it. Now my fingers and hips are feeling twinges, so I think I'll have some positive to report soon, given the full-spectrum joint care matrix and large doses of ingredients therein.
 
84bandit said:
for <$15?
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After years of developing sides to various formulations of multiple preparations, that initially worked well, I finally went to Customcapsule.com and made my own formulation. Its the best supplement I have ever taken and at the fraction of the cost of other brands and types. They are a board sponsor by the way.
 
RenegadeRows said:
OT (orange) compared to ADAM (blue):


I could go on like this, but you get the picture. Feel free to compare them for yourself.
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Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide) 100mg

Magnesium (from Magnesium Oxide, Magnesium Citrate and ZMA%Acirc®) 100mg

Somehow that always irks me lol :) There's a few other things in ADAM not in OT, but OT has joint support too. I'm running OT right now, and I honestly don't feel much different between Costco/ADAM/OT, I probably don't even need a multi considering how much veggies I devour.

Here's the Pak for comparison, Invalid Link Removed . Slightly pricey, but some people swear by it. Maybe it's the 4g of Argentine liver :D
 
Cocsto multi never had any issues also took the gnc megamen for a while.. But I have heard alot of good talk from people about OT, when my cocsto runs out im giving that a try!
 
84bandit said:
for <$15?
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It's a little bit more than that, but for $25.99 (well, nearly twice that much for me) Activite Sport by MHP lasts 30 days and is a pretty solid, all-round multivitamin...Otherwise, NOW Adam seems to be ok, and is cheaper...


rms80 said:
our Complete Balance- out in 9 days :)
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'Course, you could always try the new multivitamin AN is putting out, as Dirk said :D
 
With so many large scale studies coming out saying supplementing A, E and C are bad for us, I'm surprised anyone still takes cheap multivitamins. You don't want synthetic sources, and you don't want alpha tocopherol as the lone source of E. Check your labels.



here is a great break down of some of the bad news vitamins have received lately
News Keeps Getting Worse for Vitamins

The best efforts of the scientific community to prove the health benefits of vitamins keep falling short.

This week, researchers reported the disappointing results from a large clinical trial of almost 15,000 male doctors taking vitamins E and C for a decade. The study showed no meaningful effect on cancer rates.

Another recent study found no benefit of vitamins E and C for heart disease.

In October, a major trial studying whether vitamin E and selenium could lower a man’s risk for prostate cancer ended amidst worries that the treatments may do more harm than good.

And recently, doctors at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York warned that vitamin C seems to protect not just healthy cells but cancer cells, too.

Everyone needs vitamins, which are critical for the body. But for most people, the micronutrients we get from foods usually are adequate to prevent vitamin deficiency, which is rare in the United States. That said, some extra vitamins have proven benefits, such as vitamin B12 supplements for the elderly and folic acid for women of child-bearing age. And calcium and vitamin D in women over 65 appear to protect bone health.

But many people gobble down large doses of vitamins believing that they boost the body’s ability to mop up damaging free radicals that lead to cancer and heart disease. In addition to the more recent research, several reports in recent years have challenged the notion that megadoses of vitamins are good for you.

A Johns Hopkins School of Medicine review of 19 vitamin E clinical trials of more than 135,000 people showed high doses of vitamin E (greater than 400 IUs) increased a person’s risk for dying during the study period by 4 percent. Taking vitamin E with other vitamins and minerals resulted in a 6 percent higher risk of dying. Another study of daily vitamin E showed vitamin E takers had a 13 percent higher risk for heart failure.

The Journal of Clinical Oncology published a study of 540 patients with head and neck cancer who were being treated with radiation therapy. Vitamin E reduced side effects, but cancer recurrence rates among the vitamin users were higher, although the increase didn’t reach statistical significance.

A 1994 Finland study of smokers taking 20 milligrams a day of beta carotene showed an 18 percent higher incidence of lung cancer among beta carotene users. In 1996, a study called Caret looked at beta carotene and vitamin A use among smokers and workers exposed to asbestos, but the study was stopped when the vitamin users showed a 28 percent higher risk for lung cancer and a 26 percent higher risk of dying from heart disease.

A 2002 Harvard study of more than 72,000 nurses showed that those who consumed high levels of vitamin A from foods, multivitamins and supplements had a 48 percent higher risk for hip fractures than nurses who had the lowest intake of vitamin A.

The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews looked at vitamin C studies for treating colds. Among more than two dozen studies, there was no overall benefit for preventing colds, although the vitamin was linked with a 50 percent reduction in colds among people who engaged in extreme activities, such as marathon runners, skiers and soldiers, who were exposed to significant cold or physical stress. The data also suggested vitamin C use was linked with less severe and slightly shorter colds.

In October 2004, Copenhagen researchers reviewed seven randomized trials of beta carotene, selenium and vitamins A, C and E (alone or in combination) in colon, esophageal, gastric, pancreatic and liver cancer. The antioxidant users had a 6 percent higher death rate than placebo users.

Two studies presented to the American College of Cardiology in 2006 showed that vitamin B doesn’t prevent heart attacks, leading The New England Journal of Medicine to say that the consistency of the results “leads to the unequivocal conclusion” that the vitamins don’t help patients with established vascular disease.

The British Medical Journal looked at multivitamin use among elderly people for a year but found no difference in infection rates or visits to doctors.

Despite a lack of evidence that vitamins actually work, consumers appear largely unwilling to give them up. Many readers of the Well blog say the problem is not the vitamin but poorly designed studies that use the wrong type of vitamin, setting the vitamin up to fail. Industry groups such as the Council for Responsible Nutrition also say the research isn’t well designed to detect benefits in healthy vitamin users.
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ASt pro 32x its great dont go with a multi at walgreens like centrum or sum bullsh*$ like that if you dont have a good multi ur sellin urself short
 
johnyq said:
With so many large scale studies coming out saying supplementing A, E and C are bad for us, I'm surprised anyone still takes cheap multivitamins. You don't want synthetic sources, and you don't want alpha tocopherol as the lone source of E. Check your labels.

here is a great break down of some of the bad news vitamins have received lately

Invalid Link Removed
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I don't think I'd get my nutritional advice from the NY Times. I read that article before and I felt dumber when I finished it.

Most of the studies cited in that article were for preventing cancer and heart disease, not for their building muscle or eliminating free radicals.

Imagine a study examining the effects of Superdrol in 72,000 elderly, female cancer patients. Not sure that would be a relevant study to us.

I would be interested if you think ANY of the studies in this article are relevant to bodybuilders and why.
 
RobInKuwait said:
I don't think I'd get my nutritional advice from the NY Times. I read that article before and I felt dumber when I finished it.

Most of the studies cited in that article were for preventing cancer and heart disease, not for their building muscle or eliminating free radicals.

Imagine a study examining the effects of Superdrol in 72,000 elderly, female cancer patients. Not sure that would be a relevant study to us.

I would be interested if you think ANY of the studies in this article are relevant to bodybuilders and why.
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relevant to bodybuilding? Do you take a MV to build muscle or to support the health of your body? People who train may have higher nutritional requirements than lazy people, but they also eat more (and usually eat better).

Personally, most of the supplements I take are only to help support a healthy body (which in turn may allow me to train better). I'd prefer to not waste money on supplements that do nothing, or worse, harm me.


That article simply compiled some interesting research, what exactly about it made you "feel dumber" for having read it?
 
johnyq said:
relevant to bodybuilding? Do you take a MV to build muscle or to support the health of your body?
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Both. I take it to prevent my getting sick, which can also prevent muscle growth. Also I take them to shore up any nutritional holes I may have. Having a CKD diet, without a lot of fruit, I think this is especially necessary.

People who train may have higher nutritional requirements than lazy people, but they also eat more (and usually eat better).

Personally, most of the supplements I take are only to help support a healthy body (which in turn may allow me to train better). I'd prefer to not waste money on supplements that do nothing, or worse, harm me.
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What from these studies makes you think vitamins are unsafe? The Vitamin E study gave subject more than double the dose you'd find in a multivitamin. According to the author, the selenium and vitamin A study was abandoned out of speculation not evidence.

That article simply compiled some interesting research, what exactly about it made you "feel dumber" for having read it?
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The fact that it listed a bunch of studies on old people, cancer patients, as well as studies to see if vitamins prevent cancer and heart disease. Then, the author tries to make the broad reaching generalizations based on these tight, specific studies that vitamins are bad. How many people do you know that take vitamins as a cure for cancer?

The same line of thinking that the author used is, Doctors can't cure AIDS, so why go to the doctor.
 
first, a lot of MV have close to 400 IUs vitamin E, check out animal pak at 300. It doesn't take much from the diet to push you into the level of that study (bowl of cereal, greens supplement, plenty of PWO shakes, fish oil caps, all would push you above 400 from supplements).

second, I have nothing against vitamins, I take AOR ortho core currently. My issue is with high doses of specific vitamins, and in unbalanced or synthetic versions.

third, those are the largest vitamin studies out there, and most of them show an increase in cancer rates and all cause mortality. Do we believe in science and studies or don't we? It seems around here, we only tear apart studies when they show us something we don't like.
 
johnyq said:
first, a lot of MV have close to 400 IUs vitamin E, check out animal pak at 300. It doesn't take much from the diet to push you into the level of that study (bowl of cereal, greens supplement, plenty of PWO shakes, fish oil caps, all would push you above 400 from supplements).
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BACKGROUND: Experimental models and observational studies suggest that vitamin E supplementation may prevent cardiovascular disease and cancer. However, several trials of high-dosage vitamin E supplementation showed non-statistically significant increases in total mortality. PURPOSE: To perform a meta-analysis of the dose-response relationship between vitamin E supplementation and total mortality by using data from randomized, controlled trials. PATIENTS: 135,967 participants in 19 clinical trials. Of these trials, 9 tested vitamin E alone and 10 tested vitamin E combined with other vitamins or minerals. The dosages of vitamin E ranged from 16.5 to 2000 IU/d (median, 400 IU/d). DATA SOURCES: PubMed search from 1966 through August 2004, complemented by a search of the Cochrane Clinical Trials Database and review of citations of published reviews and meta-analyses. No language restrictions were applied. DATA EXTRACTION: 3 investigators independently abstracted study reports. The investigators of the original publications were contacted if required information was not available. DATA SYNTHESIS: 9 of 11 trials testing high-dosage vitamin E (> or =400 IU/d) showed increased risk (risk difference > 0) for all-cause mortality in comparisons of vitamin E versus control. The pooled all-cause mortality risk difference in high-dosage vitamin E trials was 39 per 10,000 persons (95% CI, 3 to 74 per 10,000 persons; P = 0.035). For low-dosage vitamin E trials, the risk difference was -16 per 10,000 persons (CI, -41 to 10 per 10,000 persons; P > 0.2). A dose-response analysis showed a statistically significant relationship between vitamin E dosage and all-cause mortality, with increased risk of dosages greater than 150 IU/d. LIMITATIONS: High-dosage (> or =400 IU/d) trials were often small and were performed in patients with chronic diseases. The generalizability of the findings to healthy adults is uncertain. Precise estimation of the threshold at which risk increases is difficult. CONCLUSION: High-dosage (> or =400 IU/d) vitamin E supplements may increase all-cause mortality and should be avoided.
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I don't think the limitations on this study necessarily equate to the conclusion. Not saying its good to megadose vitamin E, but I don't think this study is conclusive due to the fact most of the patients who megadosed vitamin E had a chronic disease.

second, I have nothing against vitamins, I take AOR ortho core currently. My issue is with high doses of specific vitamins, and in unbalanced or synthetic versions.
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I don't necessarily disagree. I only mega dose vitamin C. I just don't think there is sufficient information out there to justify fear of vitamins in normal doses or even high doses in some cases.

third, those are the largest vitamin studies out there, and most of them show an increase in cancer rates and all cause mortality. Do we believe in science and studies or don't we? It seems around here, we only tear apart studies when they show us something we don't like.
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Which study showed an increase in cancer rates for healthy individuals? Are you referring to the study on smokers? It said that taking vitamin A as a SMOKER increases a SMOKER's chance of getting lung cancer. SMOKING increases a SMOKER's chance of lung cancer exponentially more than vitamin A ever will.

Again, I think when you look at each study in this article individually, there is nothing to substantiate the conclusion of the article.
 
RobInKuwait said:
Which study showed an increase in cancer rates for healthy individuals? Are you referring to the study on smokers? It said that taking vitamin A as a SMOKER increases a SMOKER's chance of getting lung cancer. SMOKING increases a SMOKER's chance of lung cancer exponentially more than vitamin A ever will.
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I'm not sure I understand why the study group matters. Whatever is triggering the cancer, is being compounded by excessive beta carotene. That would seem to me something that even the healthy population would want to know and be aware (certainly we are all constantly in contact with carcinogens, as well as constantly creating cancer cells and defeating them through our immune system).
 
I gotta agree with JohnnyQ, from the digging i did when looking for a good multi, it seems like most these "bodybuilding companies" multi's are pretty poor.

I decided on AOR Orthocore as well.
 
johnyq said:
I'm not sure I understand why the study group matters. Whatever is triggering the cancer, is being compounded by excessive beta carotene. That would seem to me something that even the healthy population would want to know and be aware (certainly we are all constantly in contact with carcinogens, as well as constantly creating cancer cells and defeating them through our immune system).
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Carcinogens merely damage the cells. They still require several mutations before they reach the stage of cancerous.

Certainly it isn't intelligent to take excessive beta carotene if you are a smoker. However, there is no medical literature that shows beta carotene alone can cause cancer, while there are plenty of studies that show cigarettes cause cancer.

Here's an interesting article I ran across about how Vitamin D may prevent cancer.

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We could pull up pro vitamin D research all day (not to mention interesting stats about the huge percentage of americans that are deficient and all of the diseases that causes, including cancer). It's important enough that everyone should have their values checked, and supplement with enough D to get their values into the normal to high range. Simply taking a multivitamin won't do this.
 
johnyq said:
first, a lot of MV have close to 400 IUs vitamin E, check out animal pak at 300. It doesn't take much from the diet to push you into the level of that study (bowl of cereal, greens supplement, plenty of PWO shakes, fish oil caps, all would push you above 400 from supplements).
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the 300 IU in Animal Pak is per 2 packs. We recommend 1 pack for most people, so you would be getting 150 IU.

As for the Animal Pak there is no product with a better track record. It has been the #1 multi in our industry for 25 years. That speaks volumes.
 
#1 in the industry at what exactly? That is a pretty empty statement, no offense.


I pulled the 300IU off your website, that is what it gave per serving. Even 150IU of alpha tocopherol is too much IMO, but I suppose that could be an endless debate.
 
johnyq said:
#1 in the industry at what exactly? That is a pretty empty statement, no offense.
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# 1 in sales. More bodybuilders/athletes in our industry have used Animal Pak than any other multi. There are people who have literally taken it for 25 years straight.
 
naturalguy said:
# 1 in sales. More bodybuilders/athletes in our industry have used Animal Pak than any other multi. There are people who have literally taken it for 25 years straight.
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That is great for you guys, but it tells the consumer nothing other than people aren't dieing on your product.

I think AM is for more than marketing claims. Feel free to refute the issue with vitamin E or A with large human studies.
 
johnyq said:
That is great for you guys, but it tells the consumer nothing other than people aren't dieing on your product.

I think AM is for more than marketing claims. Feel free to refute the issue with vitamin E or A with large human studies.
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I don't believe there are those studies done on bodybuilders/athletes. However I'll take 25 years of actual use over a study any day.

Unfortunately there are not a lot of studies on supplements, never mind studies done with bodybuilders/athletes.
 
johnyq said:
I think AM is for more than marketing claims. Feel free to refute the issue with vitamin E or A with large human studies.
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Please find a study that says these vitamins are detrimental to healthy individuals in moderate doses.

What you're saying is based on speculation and not relevant studies.
 
I think what people are missing here is that Vitamins and minerals are required by the body for 1000s of functions including growth / maintenance of cells etc. So of course they "could" increase cancerous problems if you are already prone to get it or have it. Since cancer becomes a part of your body down to the cellular structure. It doesnt mean a healthy person who wasnt going to get cancer suddenly gets it because of the vitamins or minerals, thats the dumbest thing i have ever heard.
 
In all seriousness though, MVP-365 is amazing. It has a lot of active, coenzymated forms. As far as a B-Complex, Source Naturals coenzymated B-Complex is something you WILL FEEL IMMEDIATELY. ZMK is an undeniable counterpart for MVP. MVP/ZMK = vitamins, anti-oxidants, test booster
 
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