Anybody using Viron?

GreenMachineX

GreenMachineX

Well-known member
The label doesn't say much other than take 1 daily; is that all you guys take? Does it matter when you take it, e.g. preworkout, pre-bed, etc? Thanks.
 
I'm taking it right now and liking it. Definite increases in libido, and my diet has been lacking due to work stress yet I'm maintaining or going slightly up in all my lifts. I take my dose in the AM.
 
The boron studies I looked at all dosed something like 10mg with breakfast, so I find it likely that that's the intended use.

Also, a post from brundel you might find useful: Invalid Link Removed
 
KrisL said:
The boron studies I looked at all dosed something like 10mg with breakfast, so I find it likely that that's the intended use.Also, a post from brundel you might find useful: Invalid Link Removed
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Well, on the net, boron should elevate E and increase free T. Tongkat should increase free T and lower E. But 200mg tongkat is no match for 10mg boron so I'd tend to agree with brundel. A lot of this may be related to cutting out shbg
 
Interesting. How significantly does boron raise E? Is there an amount of tongkat that would be effective at lowering E?
 
"...significant increase in plasma 17-B estradiol (E2) concentration (P < 0.004) and there was a trend for plasma testosterone (T) levels to be increased. The ratio of E2/T increased significantly."
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KrisL said:
"...significant increase in plasma 17-B estradiol (E2) concentration (P < 0.004) and there was a trend for plasma testosterone (T) levels to be increased. The ratio of E2/T increased significantly."
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That doesn't sound good. Formeron to the rescue...?
 
Lacking the full study, I'd have to guess that an AI would more than fix any issues.

But I'm seeing conflicting information out there. I guess you'd have to actually get the bloodwork done to know if you need an AI or not.

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KrisL said:
But I'm seeing conflicting information out there. I guess you'd have to actually get the bloodwork done to know if you need an AI or not.
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That will always be the case. You can certainly guess and sometimes it is evident, but often you are quite high before noticing sides.
 
Brundel recommends running an AI with Viron and coop agrees.. So everyone should run it with an AI..
I'm running formeron with viron at the moment.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Well, on the net, boron should elevate E and increase free T. Tongkat should increase free T and lower E. But 200mg tongkat is no match for 10mg boron so I'd tend to agree with brundel. A lot of this may be related to cutting out shbg
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New Erase good enough? I have a bottle on hand, luckily..
 
I am running this solo.
As soon as I bumped it up to two I kinda got lethargic and felt like it affected my blood pressure

1 is my sweet spot.

Libido is up but that's about it for now but really that's all I am taking it for.

I don't know wether estrogen will rise from a natural herb to warrant a AI but I can see the benefit
 
GreenMachineX said:
That doesn't sound good. Formeron to the rescue...?
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It looks sketchy but really anything that raises test levels will raise estro and SHBG releases more than just free t.
So we expect estro to rise even with some anti estrogenic effects of TA. Some research indicates Tongkat works more like a serm than an AI which will allow estro to continue rising.
Either way....Formeron will crush any estro advance plus give added anabolism.

For the win.
 
horizons said:
I am running this solo.
As soon as I bumped it up to two I kinda got lethargic and felt like it affected my blood pressure

1 is my sweet spot.

Libido is up but that's about it for now but really that's all I am taking it for.

I don't know wether estrogen will rise from a natural herb to warrant a AI but I can see the benefit
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Might be blood pressure dropped alot. Hard to say without a BP cuff.
Both boron and tongkat cause a host of hormonal effects. if 1 works well just keep it at 1.

I think youll be surprised though....it can really crank up T levels which of course will crank up E levels.
 
Actually been feeling a bit of lethargy.
Popped 2 caps the first day, now just 1 a day.

Also taking a few other natty supps for a boost.

May try 5 caps a week instead of 7, still a bit early to tell.
 
We'll see how it goes, I just got labs done.
Going again in 30 days to evaluate after this current natty stack, including Viron & Formeron and a few other natty products.
 
Peppers said:
Why is that though?

I would expect the opposite.
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I am not sure. Kind of strange when I would have expected the opposite as well.

Bumped it up to two caps before bed and on 5 days / off 2 days

No huge difference to be honest.
Libido is good but that's about it.
 
horizons said:
Yeah lethargy is strong on viron. I dose it before bed now
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Lethargy? That would be a unique response to Tongkat or boron.
2 caps is 500mg of a strong tongkat extract.
Maybe your blood pressure is dropping?
I dont think using more is gonna make it better lol.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I don't believe I've noticed anything from it yet.
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I dont "feel" anything at all from the Boron.
The tongkat I really feel but its because it reduces the effects of my beta blockers.

Some people get a racy stim feeling from tongkat, some not.
The real benefits are from the increase in Free testosterone which you wont feel per se.
Libido increase would be the only indicator but even this is dependent on many other factors.

My point is its still working if you dont feel it.
The benefit will be added anabolic potential.
 
If you guys are interested I'll post recent labs along with new labs in 30 days with the layout of the supps used.
 
brundel said:
I dont "feel" anything at all from the Boron.
The tongkat I really feel but its because it reduces the effects of my beta blockers.

Some people get a racy stim feeling from tongkat, some not.
The real benefits are from the increase in Free testosterone which you wont feel per se.
Libido increase would be the only indicator but even this is dependent on many other factors.

My point is its still working if you dont feel it.
The benefit will be added anabolic potential.
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I'm on a beta blocker too but only 5mg bisoprolol now which I probably don't even need anymore. I'll be having labs done soon so it'll be interesting to see test and free test from the formeron and Viron.
 
GreenMachineX said:
I'm on a beta blocker too but only 5mg bisoprolol now which I probably don't even need anymore. I'll be having labs done soon so it'll be interesting to see test and free test from the formeron and Viron.
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Im on a relatively high dose.
my heart POUNDS when I take tongkat.

Ive seen Formeron alone crank up free T. The combo should be interesting ;)
 
brundel said:
Lethargy? That would be a unique response to Tongkat or boron.
2 caps is 500mg of a strong tongkat extract.
Maybe your blood pressure is dropping?
I dont think using more is gonna make it better lol.
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I was on 1 cap for the first week and I still got the lethargy

My blood pressure could definitely be dropping while taking it.
 
horizons said:
I was on 1 cap for the first week and I still got the lethargy

My blood pressure could definitely be dropping while taking it.
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I take blood pressure meds and they just ruin me.
Can only take at night or im on the couch all day.
Not sure if other things that lower bp also cause this but i believe they could at least. For sure a double dose isnt better.
Try a daytime dose with a stim like caffeine. Just to see if it makes a diff with some vasoconstriction.

Dont know if itll make a diff or not.
 
brundel said:
I take blood pressure meds and they just ruin me.Can only take at night or im on the couch all day.Not sure if other things that lower bp also cause this but i believe they could at least. For sure a double dose isnt better.Try a daytime dose with a stim like caffeine. Just to see if it makes a diff with some vasoconstriction.Dont know if itll make a diff or not.
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You said you're on b-blockers, which are known to cause mild CNS sedation. This does not apply to the vast majority of anti-hypertensives.Furthermore, caffeine acts chiefly as a peripheral vasodilator, not a vasoconstrictor. Even furthermore, beta blockers have either no effect on vasculature or they vasoconstrict it. The BP lowering effect is systolic
 
While I know there are people who say its a vasodilator in my experience blood pressure rises and int known to cause a rise in blood pressure along with vasoconstriction. Tons of studies support it being a vasoconstrictor, and even more to support it raising blood pressure which was the whole point.

Caffeine acutely increases blood pressure and peripheral vascular resistance, in part because of sympathetic stimulation. Its effects on large artery properties are largely unknown. In a double-blind crossover study, 7 healthy subjects 26±2.6 years of age (mean±SEM) were studied for 90 minutes while in the supine position on 2 occasions separated by a week in random order after ingestion of 250 mL caffeinated (150 mg) and decaffeinated (<2 mg) coffee. Compared with baseline, arterial stiffness measured by carotid femoral pulse wave velocity increased progressively from 7.2±0.41 to 8.0±0.6 m/s (P<0.05) at 90 minutes after caffeine intake, an effect that may be independent of changes in blood pressure. In addition, arterial wave reflection, measured by applanation tonometry from the aortic pressure waveform, also increased from −5.7±7.6% to 5.28%±5.6 (P<0.01). No such changes were seen with decaffeinated coffee

Caffeine is a commonly used neurostimulant that also produces cerebral vasoconstriction by antagonizing adenosine receptors. Chronic caffeine use results in an adaptation of the vascular adenosine receptor system presumably to compensate for the vasoconstrictive effects of caffeine

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In addition it depends on the beta blocker in use as some of the newer ones are also vasodilators and DO have an effect on vasculature.
Trust me I know because Ive eaten many of them. Now I know many dont promote vasodilation but just because you think your always right here is proof your not.

"Nebivolol is a cardioselective β(1)-adrenoceptor antagonist that promotes vasodilation":

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My beta blockers dont make me tired. My ace inhibitor does again...which I take at night.
Beta blockers are taken in the morning and at night.

Its funny....because again you literally never have anything to say except conflicting information just to be conflicting.
He isnt on beta blockers so....its a moot point.
Caffeine WILL almost certainly raise BP although in some cases it doesnt. Most people...it does.


You should write a paper on how people with high blood pressure should take caffeine because its a vasodilator and cant raise blood pressure. Let me know how it turns out.
 
Where is this located lol I have no idea why but I haven't even heard of this yet.
GreenMachineX said:
The label doesn't say much other than take 1 daily; is that all you guys take? Does it matter when you take it, e.g. preworkout, pre-bed, etc? Thanks.
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brundel said:
Unless your on beta blockers it should lower it or....this would be most likely.
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I take celery seed extract and hawthorne extract everyday for BP. They both have the similar mechanisms to calcium channel blockers. If I took Viron, do you think I would see BP elevation? I do not take pharmaceutical BP meds.
 
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