Andromass

I am getting two bottles of andromass and im gonna stack with Sdrol
 
ryansm said:
Will definitely be an explosive stack, you going to log fight? Also if you want a discount PM me
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I dont know how detailed itwill be but Ill probably make a lil something something and provide some feedback.
 
I have to ask because I am busy and lazy, yes both of those at the same time, are there any AndroMass logs that are complete with results that mimic the 8-12 pound gains that were predicted with this? Has anyone considered running it out to 12 weeks like you would a test cycle?
 
oufinny said:
I have to ask because I am busy and lazy, yes both of those at the same time, are there any AndroMass logs that are complete with results that mimic the 8-12 pound gains that were predicted with this? Has anyone considered running it out to 12 weeks like you would a test cycle?
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There are plenty of logs that people have gained the 8-12 lbs. 4 weeks sure, in 8 weeks without a doubt.

(Androhard+Andromass)
(Androhard+Andromass)

Here are three, there are several more, let me know if you want ALL the links.

The longest I've seen someone run these is 10 weeks, he gained 9 lbs. and lost 3% body fat. I believe he started using phs/ds 10 years ago. I'll try to dig up that review.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
There are plenty of logs that people have gained the 8-12 lbs. 4 weeks sure, in 8 weeks without a doubt.

(Androhard+Andromass)
(Androhard+Andromass)

Here are three, there are several more, let me know if you want ALL the links.

The longest I've seen someone run these is 10 weeks, he gained 9 lbs. and lost 3% body fat. I believe he started using phs/ds 10 years ago. I'll try to dig up that review.
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I post up results, but I know in a few more posts (after no one comments on these) we'll get more posts about the lack of feedback :(
 
Rodja said:
You could always Google "Andromass Logs" as well to get dozens of hits.
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I am lazy and was looking for a simple yes, people have seen excellent results and yes people are running it past 8 weeks like you would test E. Once it becomes more affordable I may try it sometime though it is hard to do so when I can get enough test E for 12 weeks for the price of 1 and I know that will work. I like the option of this though as it will cause no potential legal issues and less risk to your health. I would be game if it was 3 bottles for $200, just saying!
 
ryansm said:
Exactly, people don't realize what a difference eating enough quality calories can dramatically change performance/aesthetics/LBM etc...
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Good point. I want to try Adromass, but I am already eating enough quality calories and I have been gaining, on average, about 1 pound a week. So in 8-to-12 weeks, I will gain anywhere from 8 to 12 pounds, which is the same amount of weight one can expect to gain on Andromass. So I am not sure I understand why I need to take Andromass. What am I missing?
 
50Carbs said:
Good point. I want to try Adromass, but I am already eating enough quality calories and I have been gaining, on average, about 1 pound a week. So in 8-to-12 weeks, I will gain anywhere from 8 to 12 pounds, which is the same amount of weight one can expect to gain on Andromass. So I am not sure I understand why I need to take Andromass. What am I missing?
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If you are gaining naturally a pound a week of LBM I need your secret, and I wouldn't bother with PH/AAS
 
I'd like to try an 8 week combo of all 3 of the Androseries. I think it would be a great mass gaining/recomp stack for those who have had progress slow down a bit and don't feel like putting on much fat while bulking.
 
Force of Green said:
I'd like to try an 8 week combo of all 3 of the Androseries. I think it would be a great mass gaining/recomp stack for those who have had progress slow down a bit and don't feel like putting on much fat while bulking.
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If you need a discount shoot me a PM
 
ryansm said:
If you are gaining naturally a pound a week of LBM I need your secret, and I wouldn't bother with PH/AAS
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I do not have a secret. I follow a slightly modified version of StrongLifts 5x5 and just follow a simple diet, a low-carb diet, by the way. I do eat a relatively high amount of carbs on Saturday and Sunday, but for the rest of the week, I only get carbs from spinach, broccoli, and other vegetables. I do not eat fruits. That is about it.
 
50Carbs said:
I do not have a secret. I follow a slightly modified version of StrongLifts 5x5 and just follow a simple diet, a low-carb diet, by the way. I do eat a relatively high amount of carbs on Saturday and Sunday, but for the rest of the week, I only get carbs from spinach, broccoli, and other vegetables. I do not eat fruits. That is about it.
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I guess his point was it's not possible to continually gain 1 lb of muscle a week... or you'd be gaining 52 lbs. a year, and in 4 years you'd be so large you'd walk onto the olympia stage and dwarf your contenders.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
I guess his point was it's not possible to continually gain 1 lb of muscle a week... or you'd be gaining 52 lbs. a year, and in 4 years you'd be so large you'd walk onto the olympia stage and dwarf your contenders.
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Well, of course not, but I have not hit the plateau yet, but what is your point? You are not saying that it is possible to continually gain 1 pound a week or 8-12 pounds every 8 weeks continually on Andromass? Are you?

That having been said, assuming one follows a proper exercise program, if you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain muscle mass. So the question is: Does Andromass work when you are in calorie balance? Because if it only works when you are in calorie surplus, how do you know that you are gaining from Andromass and not from excess calories?
 
50Carbs said:
Well, of course not, but I have not hit the plateau yet, but what is your point? You are not saying that it is possible to continually gain 1 pound a week or 8-12 pounds every 8 weeks continually on Andromass? Are you?

That having been said, assuming one follows a proper exercise program, if you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain muscle mass. So the question is: Does Andromass work when you are in calorie balance? Because if it only works when you are in calorie surplus, how do you know that you are gaining from Andromass and not from excess calories?
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The point my post was to point out the point of Ryan's post, nothing more.

So the question is: Does Andromass work when you are in calorie balance? Because if it only works when you are in calorie surplus, how do you know that you are gaining from Andromass and not from excess calories?
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Because people are staying lean and putting on 8-12 lbs. of muscle in 4 weeks. Some even lose bodyfat. Trying doing that naturally and it simply won't happen unless you have a boatload of supps or have just started training.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Because people are staying lean and putting on 8-12 lbs. of muscle in 4 weeks. Some even lose bodyfat. Trying doing that naturally and it simply won't happen unless you have a boatload of supps or have just started training.
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I am skeptical, but if that is really the case, it is impressive. But what about gaining 8-12 lbs of muscle in 4 weeks without in calorie balance or does it only work if one consumes a surplus of calories?
 
50Carbs said:
I am skeptical, but if that is really the case, it is impressive. But what about gaining 8-12 lbs of muscle in 4 weeks without in calorie balance or does it only work if one consumes a surplus of calories?
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Where would you get the weight from? Lethargy, so you can't or don't want to move around and do things enough? Extra sleep to avoid waking time caloric expeniture? I'm just curious.

And thanks Ryan!
 
Today we had a member at our homesite report that he put on 8lbs of mass yet kept his bf the same. Im seeing this more and more often.
 
Force of Green said:
Where would you get the weight from? Lethargy, so you can't or don't want to move around and do things enough? Extra sleep to avoid waking time caloric expeniture? I'm just curious.
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Where do you get the weight from on AAS? On AAS, you do not need to eat a surplus of calories. You gain muscle mass on maintains calories. Of course, if you do eat surplus, it is possible to gain even more weight. Again, unless there is a control group, how do you know that you are gaining from Andromas and not from the diet?
 
50Carbs said:
Where do you get the weight from on AAS? On AAS, you do not need to eat a surplus of calories. You gain muscle mass on maintains calories. Of course, if you do eat surplus, it is possible to gain even more weight. Again, unless there is a control group, how do you know that you are gaining from Andromas and not from the diet?
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Most people aren't actually counting calories. Even if counting calories is someone's thing, all caloric expenditure must be factored into the equation to sum the total daily calories spent and therefore required to intake (input = output). You shift the fat to muscle (lean body mass) when you incorporate such anabolic steroids into the body. The repartitioning effects and the anti-catabolic & anabolic effects will allow an enironment that will 1. Retain as much LBM as possible 2. Reduce the amount of excess calories partitioned to fat 3. Increase protein synthesis 4. Partition more calories (all macros) towards repairing and building muscle (LBM) You can surely cause a good body recomposition if you count cals and have the same calories taken in that you'd usually have and you eat a clean diet with the proper macronutrients. The results between individuals will vary.
 
50Carbs said:
Where do you get the weight from on AAS? On AAS, you do not need to eat a surplus of calories. You gain muscle mass on maintains calories. Of course, if you do eat surplus, it is possible to gain even more weight. Again, unless there is a control group, how do you know that you are gaining from Andromas and not from the diet?
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This is a terrible opinion to have. You need to up your calories to gain weight, period. Even with a ton of AAS in you, without sufficient calories, you won't be getting very much bigger.

If it were possible to gain naturally what you gain with AAS, just simply by eating more food, no one would use AAS. The weight is CLEANER (you put on less fat) when you use AAS.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
You need to up your calories to gain weight, period.
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We are not taking about a simple weight gain here.

Even with a ton of AAS in you, without sufficient calories, you won't be getting very much bigger.
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Sufficient calories and surplus of calories are two different things. AAS works because you gain muscle mass on sufficient (maintains) calories.

If it were possible to gain naturally what you gain with AAS, just simply by eating more food, no one would use AAS.
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No, you gain muscle faster and it is possible to gain more muscle mass than by just eating more food. That is the whole point and proof that AAS works, because you gain muscle without a calorie surplus. If you are in calorie surplus and on AAS, you can gain even more muscle mass, but the proof that AAS works is in the fact that you do not need to eat more to gain muscle mass. It is common knowledge.

Andromass claims that it is equivalent to injectable testosterone. If you inject real testosterone and weight train, you will gain muscle mass on your regular diet, without consuming more calories than your daily, average calorie consumption.
 
Force of Green said:
50Carbs, maybe you can reply to my post?
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I agree with everything you said, but what is your point? My question is very simple: Can you gain 8 to 12 pounds of muscle mass on Anromass without increasing your overall calorie intake? Because if you cannot, how do you know that you have gained muscle from Andromass and not from surplus of calories? Again, since Andromass claims that it is similar to injecting a certain amount of testosterone, and since we know that you can gain muscle mass on injectable testosterone without increasing overall calorie intake, the results should be similar to injectable testosterone.

The same goes for weight loss supplements. If a weight loss supplement makes a claim that you can lose, say, 10 pounds in two weeks, then you should be able to lose 10 pounds in 2 weeks without changing your diet - i.e., by consuming a certain number of calories that keeps your weight in balance. If, on the other hand, you can only lose 10 pounds in 2 weeks by reducing your overall calorie intake, then the most obvious conclusion is that you have lost weight not because the supplement works, but because you have reduced your overall calorie intake.
 
You'll gain weight without increasing calories on-cycle, but you will not maintain them during and beyond PCT. This is why you see so many people on their 5th cycle of SD and still be 185lbs.
 
50Carbs said:
I agree with everything you said, but what is your point? My question is very simple: Can you gain 8 to 12 pounds of muscle mass on Anromass without increasing your overall calorie intake? Because if you cannot, how do you know that you have gained muscle from Andromass and not from surplus of calories? Again, since Andromass claims that it is similar to injecting a certain amount of testosterone, and since we know that you can gain muscle mass on injectable testosterone without increasing overall calorie intake, the results should be similar to injectable testosterone.

The same goes for weight loss supplements. If a weight loss supplement makes a claim that you can lose, say, 10 pounds in two weeks, then you should be able to lose 10 pounds in 2 weeks without changing your diet - i.e., by consuming a certain number of calories that keeps your weight in balance. If, on the other hand, you can only lose 10 pounds in 2 weeks by reducing your overall calorie intake, then the most obvious conclusion is that you have lost weight not because the supplement works, but because you have reduced your overall calorie intake.
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Hear, hear. I have been pressing this issue for years. Everyone wants the quick easy road. I have been avoiding harsh PH's and anabolics in recent years because I don't like the roller coster ride.
 
50Carbs said:
We are not taking about a simple weight gain here.

Sufficient calories and surplus of calories are two different things. AAS works because you gain muscle mass on sufficient (maintains) calories.

No, you gain muscle faster and it is possible to gain more muscle mass than by just eating more food. That is the whole point and proof that AAS works, because you gain muscle without a calorie surplus. If you are in calorie surplus and on AAS, you can gain even more muscle mass, but the proof that AAS works is in the fact that you do not need to eat more to gain muscle mass. It is common knowledge.

Andromass claims that it is equivalent to injectable testosterone. If you inject real testosterone and weight train, you will gain muscle mass on your regular diet, without consuming more calories than your daily, average calorie consumption.
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Yes, you can gain muscle without increasing calories on Andromass. Simply not as much as you would gain if you increased calories.
 
Rodja makes a good point. When you use a PH/steroid product and just keep everything else the same and just use the product (whatever it may be) to favor an anabolic environment, you will go back to square one when you return to normal, if nothing else changes.
 
50Carbs said:
We are not taking about a simple weight gain here.

Sufficient calories and surplus of calories are two different things. AAS works because you gain muscle mass on sufficient (maintains) calories.

No, you gain muscle faster and it is possible to gain more muscle mass than by just eating more food. That is the whole point and proof that AAS works, because you gain muscle without a calorie surplus. If you are in calorie surplus and on AAS, you can gain even more muscle mass, but the proof that AAS works is in the fact that you do not need to eat more to gain muscle mass. It is common knowledge.

Andromass claims that it is equivalent to injectable testosterone. If you inject real testosterone and weight train, you will gain muscle mass on your regular diet, without consuming more calories than your daily, average calorie consumption.
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You are pretty far off here. You wont gain significant muscle mass on AAS without surplus calories. You'll gain a small amount, and some scale weight from water retention. All of which (muscle and water) disappears after your cycle without changing calorie intake from baseline, so a waste of time.

The bigger difference in using AAS or other steroids is that your protein synthesis rate rises. Instead of the 1/4 lb of muscle you can naturally add a week, you have a good bit higher amount. At some doses of AAS you can break 2 lbs a week. As a natural, eat more surplus calories than adding that requires and you add fat, same with AAS, just that with that much more protein synthesis the point at which that happens is much higher calorically.

I'd call anyone who is looking to gain mass who doesn't increase their calories on cycle an idiot and a waste of hormones.
 
EasyEJL said:
You wont gain significant muscle mass on AAS without surplus calories.
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First of all, "significant" is a relative term. The point is that the proof that AAS work is in the fact that you will gain muscle mass without changing your diet. Second, how much one can gain on AAS or without them, for that matter, is pre-determent by your genetics, not how much you eat.

You'll gain a small amount, and some scale weight from water retention. All of which (muscle and water) disappears after your cycle without changing calorie intake from baseline, so a waste of time.
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Again, "small amount" is another relative term. And again, genetics determine how much muscle mass you will be able to retain. You are correct, however, in saying that higher calorie intake is required to maintain a newly acquired muscle mass, but that is common knowledge, and nobody was arguing otherwise.

The bigger difference in using AAS or other steroids is that your protein synthesis rate rises.
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Exactly! Now we are getting to the meat of the matter. In short, you gain muscle mass on AAS because of elevated protein synthesis, but its mechanism of action is independent of higher calorie intake, which, as I have already mentioned more times than I care to remember, is proof that AAS works. If you cannot gain muscle mass on baseline calories, then whatever you are taking does not elevate protein synthesis and does not work.

Andromass makes a claim of gaining 8-12 lbs of muscle in 8 to 12 weeks, which comes down, on average, to gaining about 1 pound a week, which, if you ask me, is a "small amount" and not a "significant" amount of muscle mass. See how those relative terms work? But I digress. Do they officially say that said gains can only be achieved with surplus of calories? They do not, right? Because if they do, it is meaningless to make such claims without actual numbers. How many calories above baseline does one require? 300? 500? 1000? 1,200? Why not 3,000?
 
EasyEJL said:
I'd call anyone who is looking to gain mass who doesn't increase their calories on cycle an idiot and a waste of hormones.
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Absolutely. That's why I'm saying it's all about ratios... if you want to gain mass FASTER, and stay leaner, AAS/PH are going to do this. If you add 1,000-1,500 calories a day to your diet, without AAS/PH, you will gain considerable fat especially if it isn't all clean.
 
BigBlackGuy said:
Absolutely. That's why I'm saying it's all about ratios... if you want to gain mass FASTER, and stay leaner, AAS/PH are going to do this. If you add 1,000-1,500 calories a day to your diet, without AAS/PH, you will gain considerable fat especially if it isn't all clean.
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What does "all clean" mean? It sounds like broscience.

And how did you come up with 1,000 - 1,500 calories? Why not 1,200 -to-1,800 calories or 2,000-to-2,500 calories? Do not these numbers depend on a number of individual variables?
 
It sounds like you are arguing with yourself now. You complain that they won't tell you how many calories are needed, then complain how any amount they give you wont be accurate.

If you want to use steroids for 6 months to gain 2lbs of lean mass and lose 4lbs of fat, be my guest. But that's about where medical studies have shown result wise. Increasing rate of protein synthesis does not mean there still isn't a metabolic cost associated with adding the muscle tissue that is in excess of maintenance.

And on no way is 1lb a week a small amount, and it's not physically possible to achieve half that naturally.
 
Force of Green said:
Rodja makes a good point. When you use a PH/steroid product and just keep everything else the same and just use the product (whatever it may be) to favor an anabolic environment, you will go back to square one when you return to normal, if nothing else changes.
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What is his point exactly? He said: "You'll gain weight without increasing calories on-cycle, but you will not maintain them during and beyond PCT. This is why you see so many people on their 5th cycle of SD and still be 185lbs."

Right, so his "good point" is what exactly? That people who use AAS are dumb and do not know that they need to consume more calories to maintain more muscle mass then they used to have before a cycle? That is why professional bodybuilders do more than one cycle? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Not!

The reason why people do multiple cycles is because the human body always goes back to its natural, genetically pre-determined, baseline. There are individual limits to how much muscle mass one can gain and maintain, eating more food is not going to change your genetics. If it were as simple as doing AAS and eating more, we would all look like Arnold in no time.
 
His point was that without increased calories on and after cycles gains are smaller, and not retained. Nobody but you has suggested using any steroids of any kind without increased calories because we all have far more sense than that.
 
EasyEJL said:
It sounds like you are arguing with yourself now. You complain that they won't tell you how many calories are needed, then complain how any amount they give you wont be accurate.
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Not at all. I simply asked if one can gain 8-to-12 pounds of muscle mass in 8-to-12 weeks on baseline calories. I am still waiting for an official answer.

And who are "they"? "They" - and by "they" I mean the official word from Primordial Performance have not posted any official numbers regarding calories or even if the surplus calories are required to achieve gains they claim are possible, at least I do not see anything on their official promo materials.
 
EasyEJL said:
His point was that without increased calories on and after cycles gains are smaller, and not retained.
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No, that is not what he said. He said, "You'll gain weight without increasing calories on-cycle, but you will not maintain them during and beyond PCT. This is why you see so many people on their 5th cycle of SD and still be 185lbs."

I hope you can see the difference between what he actually said and what you claim he said. Regardless, I have explained why his opinion is incorrect.
 
50Carbs said:
Not at all. I simply asked if one can gain 8-to-12 pounds of muscle mass in 8-to-12 weeks on baseline calories. I am still waiting for an official answer.

And who are "they"? "They" - and by "they" I mean the official word from Primordial Performance have not posted any official numbers regarding calories or even if the surplus calories are required to achieve gains they claim are possible, at least I do not see anything on their official promo materials.
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I can tell you that even on multi gram levels of testosterone a week you won't see 8-12lbs of muscle added in 8 weeks at maintenance calories. Not sure why you think steroids are magic beans, but they aren't.
 
50Carbs said:
No, that is not what he said. He said, "You'll gain weight without increasing calories on-cycle, but you will not maintain them during and beyond PCT. This is why you see so many people on their 5th cycle of SD and still be 185lbs."

I hope you can see the difference between what he actually said and what you claim he said. Regardless, I have explained why his opinion is incorrect.
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You've explained it by using your mistaken beliefs as a given truth, which doesn't actually explain anything. I've never seen someone doing full AAS cycles gain more than 4 or 5 lbs without increased calories and most of that was water retention.
 
EasyEJL said:
I can tell you that even on multi gram levels of testosterone a week you won't see 8-12lbs of muscle added in 8 weeks at maintenance calories.
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I disagree because nobody can make broad statements like this. I mean, you can make any claims you want to make, obviously, but it just sounds like broscience.

First, as I have already explained before, how much one can gain and retain, depends on genetics and a number of individual variables (daily calorie intake being just one part of the equation). Second, gaining, on average, one pound a week, is pretty pedestrian stuff. Just like losing, on average, about 2 pounds a week is pretty much an excepted standard for an average individual, an average person can easily gain 1 pound a week by following a proper diet and exercise program. Of course I am not talking about folks who are professional bodybuilders or have been training seriously for many years and have reached their genetic potential in terms of muscle mass, but how many people are in that category anyway? Not many.

Not sure why you think steroids are magic beans, but they aren't.
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I do not think that at all. I agree, they are not.
 
50Carbs said:
I disagree because nobody can make broad statements like this. I mean, you can make any claims you want to make, obviously, but it just sounds like broscience.

First, as I have already explained before, how much one can gain and retain, depends on genetics and a number of individual variables (daily calorie intake being just one part of the equation). Second, gaining, on average, one pound a week, is pretty pedestrian stuff. Just like losing, on average, about 2 pounds a week is pretty much an excepted standard for an average individual, an average person can easily gain 1 pound a week by following a proper diet and exercise program. Of course I am not talking about folks who are professional bodybuilders or have been training seriously for many years and have reached their genetic potential in terms of muscle mass, but how many people are in that category anyway? Not many.
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Your answer isn't broscience too? That's comical. If you think 1lb a week is pedestrian then you apparently haven't talked to anyone who has been working out more than 3 months before. Natural bodybuilders are thrilled to add 1lb of muscle a month, much less week. A 6' tall guy at 200 lbs and 10% bodyfat would be able to hit 250 at the same bodyfat in a year by your crazy math, and I haven't seen anyone even on ferocious levels of steroids accomplish that, including pros.
 
EasyEJL said:
You've explained it by using your mistaken beliefs as a given truth, which doesn't actually explain anything.
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Okay, what is my mistaken belief exactly?

He basically said that people do multiple cycles because they do not eat enough and you seem to agree with that. I explained why people do multiple cycles, basically because the body always tries to go back to its genetically pre-determined state and it becomes increasingly difficult to maintain a certain level of muscles mass that was the result of artificially increased protein synthesis. What is your explanation? Just eat more food?
 
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