Anavar for the first time

[Nac]

No test base...this have anything to do with GnRH, LH, and GH? As in those pre/pubertal height studies?

 

[Spurfy]

No test base...this have anything to do with GnRH, LH, and GH? As in those pre/pubertal height studies?

Yes, and you're probably tantalizingly close to the rest of this answer. (Hint: the effect of supra-physiologic T levels on collagen synthesis AND the effect of LH on pregnenolone and cortisol synthesis in the adrenal glands AND the effect of supra-physiologic T levels on TBG and CBG AND that estradiol is CRITICAL for muscle growth and the use of AIs is out of control AND oxandrolone JACKS free T and maintaining the proper ratio of T:E is essential AND LH is synergistically anabolic with androgens AND excretion of oxandrolone is greatly increase in the presence of supra-physiologic T levels AND diurnal T variation is critical to avoid androgen receptor down-regulation)

 

[Nac]

You cant get around all that by ditching your AI and adding a GnRH analogue + hCG to your stack brah?

No, very interdasting MrSpurfy.

 

[Spurfy]

You cant get around all that by ditching your AI and adding a GnRH analogue + hCG to your stack brah?

No, very interdasting MrSpurfy.

Read my last point -- bolded for a reason. Especially in light of the fact that oxandrolone, unlike any other known AS, increases the expression of androgen receptors in skeletal muscle (and bone). Throwing T in the mix sabotages *the* most powerful anabolic function of oxandrolone. "Var gainzzz stick, bruh" is true for this reason.

There is a reason why var alone, not T, not tren, not deca, not Winny, not EQ, not hGH, is used to heal severs burn victims in the most advanced burn clinics in the world. When used correctly, there is no known compound that is more globally AND beneficially anabolic.

This is why it's so expensive, and this expense is why it's almost universally either faked or massively underdosed except in legitimate pharmaceutical preparations.

 

[Nac]

Read my last point -- bolded for a reason. Especially in light of the fact that oxandrolone, unlike any other known AS, increases the expression of androgen receptors in skeletal muscle (and bone). Throwing T in the mix sabotages *the* most powerful function of oxandrolone.

Sure. So the theory certainly looks good. I know youve run var with 300mg test + torem, so you have a good idea of end-point results with that. Have you done several runs of var + torem (and no test) yet?

Despite the appeal of the theory, part of me (my bro logic) still wants to believe in the possibility that, to a certain point, supra levels of test will "trump all" (of the negatives). At least for a period of time, these levels would overcome/outweigh any limiting factors.

Id have to see end-point comparisons for my intuition here to be convinced.

 

[Spurfy]

Sure. So the theory certainly looks good. I know youve run var with 300mg test + torem, so you have a good idea of end-point results with that. Have you done several runs of var + torem (and no test) yet?

Yes. *Much* better results w/o the test running just var+torem.

Try it and see.

Despite the appeal of the theory, part of me (my bro logic) still wants to believe in the possibility that, to a certain point, supra levels of test will "trump all" (of the negatives). At least for a period of time, these levels would overcome/outweigh any limiting factors.

There's no getting around that androgen receptor down-regulation, but more importantly, any receptor occupied by T is one not occupied by oxandrolone. With oxandrolone being AT MINIMUM 300% as anabolic as testosterone, the real question is: Why would you want such an inferior anabolic like T in your system except at normal levels?

I get that a lot of guys like the psychological effects of supra-physiologic T, but if we are placing anabolism above all else, this is completely counter-productive.

 

[Nac]

I get that a lot of guys like the psychological effects of supra-physiologic T, but if we are placing anabolism above all else, this is completely counter-productive.

I totally get what youre generally proposing or encouraging, based on this and what youve written in other threads. If I were a noob to AAS Id be all over this sh1t (my hpta now is likely beyond fubar). Regardless, I like the philosophy.

Something Im unclear on, though. Some of the oxandrolone studies have lasted up to 12mnths. In one meta-study the researchers recommended safe effective use for up to 3mnths (I do appreciate the medical context of these recommendations). What are you basing your 6-week max cycle on?

 

[rtmilburn]

Yes, and you're probably tantalizingly close to the rest of this answer. (Hint: the effect of supra-physiologic T levels on collagen synthesis AND the effect of LH on pregnenolone and cortisol synthesis in the adrenal glands AND the effect of supra-physiologic T levels on TBG and CBG AND that estradiol is CRITICAL for muscle growth and the use of AIs is out of control AND oxandrolone JACKS free T and maintaining the proper ratio of T:E is essential AND LH is synergistically anabolic with androgens AND excretion of oxandrolone is greatly increase in the presence of supra-physiologic T levels AND diurnal T variation is critical to avoid androgen receptor down-regulation)

Not to sure what think about this. Not saying you are wrong. After reading those studies myself (I'm not smart enough to full grasp them btw) it does kinda makes sense. However the thing with anavar making you tired as hell makes total sense. With its ability to displace corticosteroids. Either way I'm glad we have this as it brings a higher level of thinking to this board

 

[Spurfy]

Something Im unclear on, though. Some of the oxandrolone studies have lasted up to 12mnths. In one meta-study the researchers recommended safe effective use for up to 3mnths (I do appreciate the medical context of these recommendations). What are you basing your 6-week max cycle on?

Dosages and context. If you're a burn victim, you're looking for the combination of the protection that oxandrolone offers against glucocorticoid-induced muscle wasting, coupled with the anabolism, and especially the increase in collagen synthesis, and you're only running (generally) a maximum of 20 mg/day.

Can you see where I'm going?

Most of the data I've seen demonstrates that anabolism peaks at six weeks and then the rate gradually declines, while the other mechanisms remain fully intact. This is androgen receptor down-regulation.

We want maximum anabolism, and so six-week cycles seem to be ideal.

Still, I'd see nothing wrong with running 10 mg/day forever, if with a SERM (NOT TAMOXIFEN!), since the SERM will keep HDL up. Oxandrolone is essentially not suppressive at this dose.

 

[rtmilburn]

So is there an explanation of why caffeine helps anavar? Is it one of those thing that we don't know why but we know it does?

 

[Spurfy]

So is there an explanation of why caffeine helps anavar? Is it one of those thing that we don't know why but we know it does?

I can only speculate, and even that speculation I can't really justify in a roundabout way with other data. The bottom line: I really don't know why caffeine does this.

 

[Spurfy]

Anything else before I bounce out, possibly never to return?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Anything else before I bounce out, possibly never to return?

No. That's all. You can go now.

LOL

Thank you for the input, very informative!

 

[Chados]

Oh for god sake. Buy test do a cycle then do anavar cycle and see the results yourself its funny how spurfy recommends something that is about 50% real. I'm blown away how some people don't see the logic here. So he tells someone that it's super effective and you can buy something at 50% effect.. so already now we know we have to dose that twice as much. So instead of going say 50 we now go 100 mg while believing that we are at 50 only due to anavar not being real.

You run it for a few weeks and you think well considering the gains and that the anavar is only 50% pure it works great.

He's doing this because he believed this himself for a long time and now he cant stop it. None of the people that claim anavar is stronger than test have tried test. It's super obvious in this thread, it's people using pills only so they don't have to use a needle. I would love to hear who's in charge of how pure the pills should be and who decides what pills are pure? Spurfy? If I say well take this trenbolone it's 50% pure, you will notice a placebo and you will start to believe it's stronger than it is, it's so easy to see what you're doing.

 

[justhere4comm]

If it is 50% one thing it's 50% something else. I'm sure the girls taking such a substance wouldn't worry one bit about anything... If it's Dianabol, then what? Your entire observation is out the window with the baby and the bathwater.

All orals will make you lethargic.

 

[Chados]

If it is 50% one thing it's 50% something else. I'm sure the girls taking such a substance wouldn't worry one bit about anything... If it's Dianabol, then what? Your entire observation is out the window with the baby and the bathwater.

All orals will make you lethargic.

Yeah and if it's mixed it's not the same. It's like saying a beer is 50% alcohol because I put vodka in it so now this is to me real beer. Trust me Budweiser would never agree that is their beer

 

[hairygrandpa]

Besides the contradictions, "idiot" callings -and whatnot, I'm getting new info out of this thread.

Summarizing:
-Best cycle length would be 6 weeks
-Anavar if UGL is probably underdosed -or fake (There is a "Roid-test kit" on amazon, tested my t-bol with it in the past...)
-Anavar supposedly exhibits synergy with caffeine -and creatine.
-Anavar should be taken on an empty stomach
-A serm (not nolva) should be taken with Anavar -no test base (info for the non- TRT dudes)

Am I missing something?

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Besides the contradictions, "idiot" callings -and whatnot, I'm getting new info out of this thread.

Summarizing:
-Best cycle length would be 6 weeks
-Anavar if UGL is probably underdosed -or fake (There is a "Roid-test kit" on amazon, tested my t-bol with it in the past...)
-Anavar supposedly exhibits synergy with caffeine -and creatine.
-Anavar should be taken on an empty stomach
-A serm (not nolva) should be taken with Anavar -no test base (info for the non- TRT dudes)

Am I missing something?

70mg a day is the saturation dose for receptors

 

[hairygrandpa]

70mg a day is the saturation dose for receptors

Well, I don't listed dosages, as it is a guessing game when you buy anavar. The test kit may tell you if it has "some anavar" in it, we still don't know how much.
I probably would always go for 100mg UGL, this way I may have at least 50mg in my system. If its pure, 100mg doesn't hurt, LOL.

 

[Industrial]

Well, I don't listed dosages, as it is a guessing game when you buy anavar. The test kit may tell you if it has "some anavar" in it, we still don't know how much.
I probably would always go for 100mg UGL, this way I may have at least 50mg in my system. If its pure, 100mg doesn't hurt, LOL.

100mg Anavar a day, all at once or spread out throughout the day?

edit: dumb question?

 

[hairygrandpa]

What intrigued me most was the Serm+Anavar combo for a cycle. A somewhat unorthodox approach.
For my next cycle I had planed to run Ralox throughout the cycle.
I really love Trest/Ment but my nipples don't.
Can't find enough info on that -and I don't have the experience to know if this is a sound thing to do.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Well, I don't listed dosages, as it is a guessing game when you buy anavar. The test kit may tell you if it has "some anavar" in it, we still don't know how much.
I probably would always go for 100mg UGL, this way I may have at least 50mg in my system. If its pure, 100mg doesn't hurt, LOL.

I wish wedinos still tested now just to see if my **** is real and % wise, I'm still gonna run test though, I'm still gonna taper up to 100mg though haha

 

[hairygrandpa]

100mg Anavar a day, all at once or spread out throughout the day?

Here my current cycle, (would have planned otherwise with the new info I got here):

Cycle length 12 weeks for Test and 1-andro/ Anavar 10 weeks
300mg test-e/week (pinning eod)
440mg 1-Andro (split morning/evening with fish oil for fat)
100mg/day Anavar (supposedly 100mg/UGL but my guess its pure) 2 x 50mg morning/evening
I upped the dose of Anavar. First 3 weeks at 60mg, 2 weeks at 70mg, now at 100mg

I'm in week 7

 

[Juicedeez utz]

What intrigued me most was the Serm+Anavar combo for a cycle. A somewhat unorthodox approach.
For my next cycle I had planed to run Ralox throughout the cycle.
I really love Trest/Ment but my nipples don't.
Can't find enough info on that -and I don't have the experience to know if this is a sound thing to do.

I've actually been told about anavar+torem only cycle, apparently right gains but still not as good as +test but all the gains are supposedly kept, just the lethargy is a lot worse without the test. I'll be running 400mg test taper up to 100mg anavar and last 4 weeks I'll add in 50mg proviron for the major hardonsss

 

[hairygrandpa]

100mg Anavar a day, all at once or spread out throughout the day?

edit: dumb question?

With the new info provided, If you train in the evening, I would take 70mg pre workout and 30mg mornings. Half life is about 9 hours (to my knowledge).
It was mentioned that caffeine after 2 pm is detrimental for gainz, well, that could be a bummer for the "late-lifter".
Personally, I go to sleep at about 3am, taking anavar + caffeine at 8pm pre workout should work for me.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

With the new info provided, If you train in the evening, I would take 70mg pre workout and 30mg mornings. Half life is about 9 hours (to my knowledge).
It was mentioned that caffeine after 2 pm is detrimental for gainz, well, that could be a bummer for the "late-lifter".
Personally, I go to sleep at about 3am, taking anavar + caffeine at 8pm pre workout should work for me.

The caff thing must be balls depending on your circadian rhythm

 

[hairygrandpa]

The caff thing must be balls depending on your circadian rhythm

LOL.
And on a full moon you have to double your caffeine intake -but NOT when its cloudy, right? LMAO.

 

[btur2915]

Okay, kids. I'm going to do you a favor...

Alpha Pharma oxandrolone and Eminence Labs oxandrolone are both about 50% pure. Make sure you get from a reputable source and check the codes on their websites. These UGL brands are faked very frequently.

Take on an empty stomach with caffeine, once per day and always 90 minutes before lifting -- no caffeine if taking in the evening, you're an idiot if you use caffeine after 2:00 PM -- this sabotages gains.

This dosing regimen produces the mystical 0.25:600-1300 androgenic:anabolic ratio that blows away even Tren. Also, take 30 g of creatine in a single dose every day while on cycle. Take no more than 80 mg/day of this var which will be around the sweet spot of 40-50 mg actual drug. Use a SERM to maintain production, 12.5 mg/day clomid or 30 mg/day of torem -- do not use a test base and do not EVER use tamoxifen. For reasons that will be ***way*** over your heads and so I'm not going to explain unless Nac asks (even then I may not), maximizing gains on var require a functioning HPG-axis.

And no, these aren't my Var, but I can vouch for them.

Real var causes PROFOUND lethargy for the first few weeks 60-90 minutes after taking it. I mean PROFOUND LETHARGY -- like Benadryl + Xanax + weed lethargy. This has to do with how it blocks cortisol signaling and it is borderline debilitating. If you've taken "var" and have not experienced this, 99% chance it was not oxandrolone.

funny you say this because i noticed it being much stronger when i took it on an empty stomach first thing in the morning for fasted training. i also forgot about the caffeine deal but luckily i have been doing it accidently the whole time.

 

[Nac]

The Portugese study compared a 300mg dose of caffeine against "standard" caffeine doses (3 espressos per day). Just pointing this out because having a cup of coffee with your var dose isnt going to cut it (if thats what anyone is doing).

 

[hairygrandpa]

The Portugese study compared a 300mg dose of caffeine against "standard" caffeine doses (3 espressos per day). Just pointing this out because having a cup of coffee with your var dose isnt going to cut it (if thats what anyone is doing).

You have no idea how I drink my coffee, LOL. A little bit stronger and it would be in a solid state.

 

[unitas27]

I use the aeropress to make espresso Americano. Super strong like jet fuel, the only way to fly.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

I only take high doses of caffeine on the 26th day of the lunar cycle and plan on taking my anavar 96 mins prior to training, my cycle is gonna suck.

 

[hairygrandpa]

I only take high doses of caffeine on the 26th day of the lunar cycle and plan on taking my anavar 96 mins prior to training, my cycle is gonna suck.

You forgot about the synergy with creatine.
30 gram creatine, rectal, dry. Don't fart unless you are a Ninja who wants to retreat unseen.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

You forgot about the synergy with creatine.
30 gram creatine, rectal, dry. Don't fart unless you are a Ninja who wants to retreat unseen.

I'm gonna stick to vaping it I think, if stick any more powder up my butt I'm gonna start dumping out of my mouth!

 

[Industrial]

yall are interesting peeps. tried cramming some creatine up my butt, but it didn't work very well, it just poured all over the floor. so then I had to snort it all up. meh

 

[hairygrandpa]

yall are interesting peeps. tried cramming some creatine up my butt, but it didn't work very well, it just poured all over the floor. so then I had to snort it all up. meh

You forgot to use a funnel. Avoid farting with the funnel in place or it gets loud, that's how the walls of Jericho went down.

 

[Industrial]

You forgot to use a funnel. Avoid farting with the funnel in place or it gets loud, that's how the walls of Jericho went down.

ah yes of course. you are wise in your years grandpa

 

[Distilled Water]

Anavar is the most anabolic oral there is. Yes it's BETTER for adding ACTUAL lean muscle mass than anything else out there. Most people just never get to use ACTUAL anavar so they poo poo on it.

Only thing else I'd even consider to add mass is Superdrol but the sides get bad. 8 weeks of anavar at 50mg may mess with you lipids but that's it but adding 10-15lbs of lean muscle will also accompany it. Go ahead and run anadrol or dbol and gain 15lbs in 4 weeks then after you stop using it lose 7-10 of it from loss glycogen and water. Get your estrogen all out of whack and destroy you me lipids and liver in comparison. But man, you'll sure look cool benching your 315!

Tbol is a close second imo bc it's cheaper and not faked as much. Similar to real anavar but harder on liver. 8 weeks of anavar of 50mg didn't budge liver enzyme levels.

 

[Spurfy]

Anavar is the most anabolic oral there is. Yes it's BETTER for adding ACTUAL lean muscle mass than anything else out there. Most people just never get to use ACTUAL anavar so they poo poo on it.

Exactly this.

Only thing else I'd even consider to add mass is Superdrol but the sides get bad. 8 weeks of anavar at 50mg may mess with you lipids but that's it but adding 10-15lbs of lean muscle will also accompany it. Go ahead and run anadrol or dbol and gain 15lbs in 4 weeks then after you stop using it lose 7-10 of it from loss glycogen and water. Get your estrogen all out of whack and destroy you me lipids and liver in comparison. But man, you'll sure look cool benching your 315!

Tbol is a close second imo bc it's cheaper and not faked as much. Similar to real anavar but harder on liver. 8 weeks of anavar of 50mg didn't budge liver enzyme levels.

This man knows what he's talking about.

There's a reason I will no longer touch any other AS but oxandrolone, not even testosterone. From a risk:benefit ratio, oxandrolone is absolutely the best AS there is.

Risk = essentially zero if run with a low-dosed SERM, which maintains T production at normal levels and prevents the decrease in HDL that oxandrolone causes.

Benefit = potential for tremendous lean muscle growth with permanent gains + better joint repair than nandrolone + solid fat loss + protection of muscle from the catabolic effects of cortisol without blocking the potent fat-burning effects of cortisol.

What's an overall better AS than oxandrolone? There isn't one.

There is a reason that oxandrolone is the only AS used to heal severe burn victims.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

I never disagreed on anavar being one of the best AS for actual muscle but the fact you say everyone's stuff is bunk just isn't true, you think that NO ONE can get real raws apart from the api list you gave? I get all mine from BALKAN pharma I think it's legit, the lab max and melting point test I did thinks it's legit too....

 

[Spurfy]

I never disagreed on anavar being one of the best AS for actual muscle but the fact you say everyone's stuff is bunk just isn't true, you think that NO ONE can get real raws apart from the api list you gave? I get all mine from BALKAN pharma I think it's legit, the lab max and melting point test I did thinks it's legit too....

All those tests show is that there is oxandrolone present. If you do a quantitative analysis, let's talk.

UGL products are as trustworthy as buying street drugs. You're taking your dealer's word about what you're buying and in what quantity. In reality, you pretty much have no idea.

I still have trouble understanding how some (most?) of you people can inject something from a vial that could literally be contaminated with anything -- that is pretty low. If you're injecting UGL drugs, I think you probably either have some psychological problems or you're just plain ignorant.

 

[Chados]

Exactly this.



This man knows what he's talking about.

There's a reason I will no longer touch any other AS but oxandrolone, not even testosterone. From a risk:benefit ratio, oxandrolone is absolutely the best AS there is.

Risk = essentially zero if run with a low-dosed SERM, which maintains T production at normal levels and prevents the decrease in HDL that oxandrolone causes.

Benefit = potential for tremendous lean muscle growth with permanent gains + better joint repair than nandrolone + solid fat loss + protection of muscle from the catabolic effects of cortisol without blocking the potent fat-burning effects of cortisol.

What's an overall better AS than oxandrolone? There isn't one.

There is a reason that oxandrolone is the only AS used to heal severe burn victims.

risk benefit ratio is one thing. Not sure many people here are overly worried about the risk though

 

[Spurfy]

risk benefit ratio is one thing. Not sure many people here are overly worried about the risk though

Why are you still here? You have no business replying in this thread when people who clearly know way more than you have already established the facts.

No one cares for your worthless opinions.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

All those tests show is that there is oxandrolone present. If you do a quantitative analysis, let's talk.

UGL products are as trustworthy as buying street drugs. You're taking your dealer's word about what you're buying and in what quantity. In reality, you pretty much have no idea.

I still have trouble understanding how some (most?) of you people can inject something from a vial that could literally be contaminated with anything -- that is pretty low. If you're injecting UGL drugs, I think you probably either have some psychological problems or you're just plain ignorant.

True but also it's not then bunk like you kept saying. Balkan pharma isn't a UGL anyways.... while UGL could be under dosed but like most things, these guys are trying to make a good buck, if you sell bad gear or noticeably under dosed stuff then word gets out and it hurts sales simple. Plus what if I buy my pharma stuff from a UGL? Is it still bunk because I didn't personally get a prescription for it?

 

[Chados]

Why are you still here? You have no business replying in this thread when people who clearly know way more than you have already established the facts.

No one cares for your worthless opinions.

Clearly there are very split opinion sir and you are clearly just scared of taking needles which is kinda smart in a way I don't understand how you can have an opinion without trying it. I would also like to see how much muscles you've gained from anavar only. There has been shown that these statistics aren't true and you go by the logic that nobody has tried the real thing. I wasn't gonna start an argument but if you havent used anything I don't think you should give an opinion from some website you found. I only said that it's true that the sides are less and you got hyped up again.

 

[BamBam0319]

Chados he said he no longer uses other steroids, not that he hasn't used them before.

 

[Chados]

Chados he said he no longer uses other steroids, not that he hasn't used them before.

Alright fair enough.. I still have my opinion about that but whatever.

 

[BamBam0319]

Alright fair enough.. I still have my opinion about that but whatever.

I'm just saying that you misunderstood him so your last post kinda falls apart since that's what you based it on. I'm not addressing anything else that's been said between y'all on this thread. Just pointing out something that you might have missed.

 

[Distilled Water]

You guys do realize that even pharma can be ****, right? I've seen on multiple occasions guys using pharma Adex, test, caber, etc and it come back as under dosed.

 

[Juicedeez utz]

Yeah I get that. But in this day and age there is no reason a good UGL can't match pharma grade stuff apart from probably HGH is all I'm saying.