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Agmatine

BBB said:
I find it rather interesting that the company that introduced agmatine as the "Holy Grail" of BB supplements no longer carries it. I'm not saying that it is a bad product, on the contrary I think it has a number of health benefits. I just don't think that it will put on mass or reduce weight as many believe. As far a pumps are concerned, it seems to be hit or miss. It doesn't do much for me in this area.
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Who is using agmatine to put on mass or reduce weight in the first place?...First time I've heard of this.

I'd agree the response and dosing is very user dependent, but the overwhelming majority of the feedback on agmatine seems to be very positive.

In terms of pumps, I won't take agmatine on my squat and deadlift days due to the fact that the pumps will be unbearable.
 
BBB said:
I find it rather interesting that the company that introduced agmatine as the "Holy Grail" of BB supplements no longer carries it. I'm not saying that it is a bad product, on the contrary I think it has a number of health benefits. I just don't think that it will put on mass or reduce weight as many believe. As far a pumps are concerned, it seems to be hit or miss. It doesn't do much for me in this area.
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MAN Sports still carries Agmatine...Blue Print evolved into Prometheus Rising...

Personally I love it for all the smaller effects and not so much for a "pump" (that is not something elusive that I chase in my workout, but I do notice increased pump with Agmatine).
 
MAN still makes an Agmatine product. Prometheus Rising is actually an improvement upon blueprint that further takes advantage of Agmatine's effects on GnRH.

I do not use agmatine for a pump or body composition. I use it for well-being, overall health, sleep, mood, etc...
 
NomZ said:
Who is using agmatine to put on mass or reduce weight in the first place?...First time I've heard of this.

I'd agree the response and dosing is very user dependent, but the overwhelming majority of the feedback on agmatine seems to be very positive.

In terms of pumps, I won't take agmatine on my squat and deadlift days due to the fact that the pumps will be unbearable.
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what about agmatine+peeps?
 
mr.cooper69 said:
MAN still makes an Agmatine product. Prometheus Rising is actually an improvement upon blueprint that further takes advantage of Agmatine's effects on GnRH.

I do not use agmatine for a pump or body composition. I use it for well-being, overall health, sleep, mood, etc...
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the sleep effects are amazing.
 
NomZ said:
Who is using agmatine to put on mass or reduce weight in the first place?...First time I've heard of this.

I'd agree the response and dosing is very user dependent, but the overwhelming majority of the feedback on agmatine seems to be very positive.

In terms of pumps, I won't take agmatine on my squat and deadlift days due to the fact that the pumps will be unbearable.
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This is a quote from your product description of agmatine. "Agmatine is a truly versatile supplement, with users reporting improved endurance, improved recovery, enhanced performance, dramatic and long lasting pumps, and improved overall body composition including increased lean muscle and decreased body-fat."
 
mr.cooper69 said:
MAN still makes an Agmatine product. Prometheus Rising is actually an improvement upon blueprint that further takes advantage of Agmatine's effects on GnRH.

I do not use agmatine for a pump or body composition. I use it for well-being, overall health, sleep, mood, etc...
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I stand corrected. They used to have a product called Blue Print which was agmatine only. I have used Prometheus Rising but it's been a while. I didn't remember it containing agmatine. Actually, my run of Prometheus Rising + Erase is when my gyno began to act up. Either the Prometheus was too strong or Erase too weak.
 
BBB said:
This is a quote from your product description of agmatine. "Agmatine is a truly versatile supplement, with users reporting improved endurance, improved recovery, enhanced performance, dramatic and long lasting pumps, and improved overall body composition including increased lean muscle and decreased body-fat."
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I doubt you'll find any SNS rep pushing Agmatine for lean mass or cutting fat, I'm aware of the write-up.

inb4 MrCooper can extrapolate a mechanism (though maybe not studied, theoretical sure) of which Agmatine affects body composition.
One could argue its affects on insulin/nutrition repartitioning can play a role in body composition...
 
We are not responsible for the product description and I'm sure I could point out far more glaring "flaws" in 99% of other products.

Now, as far as body composition, I see no reason why agmatine cannot play an indirect role in affecting it. The stimulating effect on GnRH and GHRH would result in increased LH-> testosterone (which favorably affects muscle acquisition) and would optimize GH, which in GH-insufficient individuals, may aid fat loss. Furthermore, agmatine likely has ergogenic potential by virtue of imidazoline signaling and increased vasoregulatory function, which would allow you to work out harder and longer, thus indirectly affecting body composition through increased capacity for work.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
We are not responsible for the product description and I'm sure I could point out far more glaring "flaws" in 99% of other products.

Now, as far as body composition, I see no reason why agmatine cannot play an indirect role in affecting it. The stimulating effect on GnRH and GHRH would result in increased LH-> testosterone (which favorably affects muscle acquisition) and would optimize GH, which in GH-insufficient individuals, may aid fat loss. Furthermore, agmatine likely has ergogenic potential by virtue of imidazoline signaling and increased vasoregulatory function, which would allow you to work out harder and longer, thus indirectly affecting body composition through increased capacity for work.
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Boom goes the dynamite.
 
Coop came to play...

BBB, are you interested in purchasing agmatine or just hunting around the threads?

If interested, I will tell you that I personally thoroughly enjoy agmatine.
 
I have been using agmatine for quite a while now. I can't say that I've noticed any changes in body comp however. If so they are very minor. I basically use it for it's other potential health benefits. I typically take 750 mg in the morning and another 750 pre-workout. I'm really not sure what dosage is best since the bioavailability has not been established.
 
BBB said:
I have been using agmatine for quite a while now. I can't say that I've noticed any changes in body comp however. If so they are very minor. I basically use it for it's other potential health benefits. I typically take 750 mg in the morning and another 750 pre-workout. I'm really not sure what dosage is best since the bioavailability has not been established.
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How long?
 
BBB said:
I have been using agmatine for quite a while now. I can't say that I've noticed any changes in body comp however. If so they are very minor. I basically use it for it's other potential health benefits. I typically take 750 mg in the morning and another 750 pre-workout. I'm really not sure what dosage is best since the bioavailability has not been established.
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Pretty much what the majority of users that dose it consistently are doing it for, that and the epic pumps.
 
I guessing about 6 months. I really don't seem to get "epic" pumps from agmatine. I usually get a decent pump but I beleive that carbs are necessary for a good pump. I get the best pumps when I workout in the evening. I sometimes use C-Bol pre-workout especially for my morning workouts.
 
BBB said:
I guessing about 6 months. I really don't seem to get "epic" pumps from agmatine. I usually get a decent pump but I beleive that carbs are necessary for a good pump. I get the best pumps when I workout in the evening. I sometimes use C-Bol pre-workout especially for my morning workouts.
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Different personal experiences, as with any supplement. As I posted before, I cannot take agmatine on squat/deadlift days as someone who trains for powerlifting, the pump I get is to the point of hindering.

Why I dose it on off days and post-wo for the potential health benefits + fullness throughout the rest of the day.
 
BBB said:
I guessing about 6 months. I really don't seem to get "epic" pumps from agmatine. I usually get a decent pump but I beleive that carbs are necessary for a good pump. I get the best pumps when I workout in the evening. I sometimes use C-Bol pre-workout especially for my morning workouts.
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There may be some synergy between nitrates and agmatine in an acute setting (nitrates would potentiate imidazoline signaling), so you can try stacking agmatine with C-Bol.
 
hey Mr. C...are you in agreement with the dosing of agmatine at 1g per day in the am?
 
Recently purchased bulk from NP. Has anyone had good results with that version?
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Yes, this is my favorite way to use it, dosed 45 minutes before my first meal (or even longer if it doesn't toy with my blood sugar).
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Thanks man. I am currently dosing about 35 minutes pre w/o, which is quite early in the am. Wasnt sure of there was another scheme you would suggest.
 
AE14 said:
Thanks man. I am currently dosing about 35 minutes pre w/o, which is quite early in the am. Wasnt sure of there was another scheme you would suggest.
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That should be fine if you don't get glycemic issues. Also, I'd space it away from yohimbine by a few hours, if you're using that.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
That should be fine if you don't get glycemic issues. Also, I'd space it away from yohimbine by a few hours, if you're using that.
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Is that because agmatine has some sort of fat loss blunting effect (Read that on Dr. D's stuff, something about blocking lipolysis) and Yohimbe initiates it? Or is it because of the vasodilation of yohimbe?
 
mattrag said:
Is that because agmatine has some sort of fat loss blunting effect (Read that on Dr. D's stuff, something about blocking lipolysis) and Yohimbe initiates it? Or is it because of the vasodilation of yohimbe?
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Agmatine is an alpha-2 adrenoreceptor agonist, but unlike the CNS effects, the postulated half-life at this site is around 10 minutes. I'd space it away from Yohimbine (a2 antagonist), as brief agonism is actually viewed as one of agmatine's benefits.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Agmatine is an alpha-2 adrenoreceptor agonist, but unlike the CNS effects, the postulated half-life at this site is around 10 minutes. I'd space it away from Yohimbine (a2 antagonist), as brief agonism is actually viewed as one of agmatine's benefits.
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Thanks!!
Yea I read that as well. Just thought it could be related... I spew out stuff just to look smart sometimes....
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Agmatine is an alpha-2 adrenoreceptor agonist, but unlike the CNS effects, the postulated half-life at this site is around 10 minutes. I'd space it away from Yohimbine (a2 antagonist), as brief agonism is actually viewed as one of agmatine's benefits.
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So I'm trackin' that agmatine is derived from arginine being what arginine breaks down into which goes through certain pathways in the body to facilitate NO production, correct? From what I understand (and I could be wrong which is why I'm asking) arginine has been shown to have no effect on the production of NO in orally. So knowing this how could agmatine which is just one more step in the process, make that large of a difference in pumps and vasodilation when taken orally? I only ask because if anyone here is to know it would be you coop! Thanks in advance for whatever answers you can provide!
 
Jim2542 said:
So I'm trackin' that agmatine is derived from arginine being what arginine breaks down into which goes through certain pathways in the body to facilitate NO production, correct? From what I understand (and I could be wrong which is why I'm asking) arginine has been shown to have no effect on the production of NO in orally. So knowing this how could agmatine which is just one more step in the process, make that large of a difference in pumps and vasodilation when taken orally? I only ask because if anyone here is to know it would be you coop! Thanks in advance for whatever answers you can provide!
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Sup Jim,

Agmatine-induced vasodilation has nothing to do with the urea cycle (which is what arginine is involved in, as an NO precursor). Arginine also fails to elicit an NO response due to GI uptake issues and dose-dependency.

Agmatine, on the other hand, does not elicit pumps by boosting the arginine pool. Rather, it takes part in imidazoline signaling and NOS modulation with long-term dosing. In effect, agmatine "bypasses" the arginine problem (both with the heavy required dose of arginine [30+ grams] and with bypassing a conversion by which very little of the arginine is actually metabolized into agmatine).
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Sup Jim,

Agmatine-induced vasodilation has nothing to do with the urea cycle (which is what arginine is involved in, as an NO precursor). Arginine also fails to elicit an NO response due to GI uptake issues and dose-dependency.

Agmatine, on the other hand, does not elicit pumps by boosting the arginine pool. Rather, it takes part in imidazoline signaling and NOS modulation with long-term dosing. In effect, agmatine "bypasses" the arginine problem (both with the heavy required dose of arginine [30+ grams] and with bypassing a conversion by which very little of the arginine is actually metabolized into agmatine).
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So basically it comes down to agmatine > arginine due to different pathways in the body which ultimately leads to agmatine actually working. I haven't looked at the studies (which is obvious by my ignorance on the subject) but I trust that you know what you're talking about (because you always seem to) and there is definitely enough evidence on this forum to show that it does what it says it will do. May have to order me a bottle when I move into my housing in a few weeks! Thanks coop!
 
Jim2542 said:
So basically it comes down to agmatine > arginine due to different pathways in the body which ultimately leads to agmatine actually working. I haven't looked at the studies (which is obvious by my ignorance on the subject) but I trust that you know what you're talking about (because you always seem to) and there is definitely enough evidence on this forum to show that it does what it says it will do. May have to order me a bottle when I move into my housing in a few weeks! Thanks coop!
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Heh, almost. Agmatine -> arginine is not the primary MOA. Remember, we're dealing with a different pathway altogether than elevating an NO precursor (arginine). If you wish to see the specific studies I'm referencing, PM me your email address and I'll see if I can send you the full texts where they elucidate the mechanism.
 
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