Acetyl L-Carnitine (Alcar) and the Anarchy Stack...post in here!

[wojo]

bow to the king...send me ur virginal wimmin..lmao..all in fun motley

 

[Alpha Dog]

bow to the king...

Thanks for the compliment wojo

 

[wojo]

lol got me

 

[Alpha Dog]

About a week into the cycle and still to early to report any results.

But, have a question. I recently switched to R-ALA at 1 gram/day from racemic at 3 grams/day. Is urinary odor an idication of effectiveness? R-ALA does not make my piss smell anything like the racemic version did.

 

[windwords7]

About a week into the cycle and still to early to report any results.

But, have a question. I recently switched to R-ALA at 1 gram/day from racemic at 3 grams/day. Is urinary odor an idication of effectiveness? R-ALA does not make my piss smell anything like the racemic version did.

I understand it to be only ALA to do that.

 

[Kylixer]

Headache

I've been tearing into this anarchy stack pretty hard.
I'm up to about 4g to 5g of ALCAR a day
600 to 800 mg of R-Ala
I'm downing roughly three quarts of green tea a day
CLA 3 or 4 grams with feedings, averages about 15 or so a day
Biotin, 2 or 3 grams a day.

But, I'm getting this headache... it seems to last about half the day, basically every day. Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I stopped the ephedrine/tight stack I was on about ten days ago, figured it might be withdrawal from the stims... but its been too long for withdrawal symptoms still.

Anyone have any idea what this could be? I haven't been able to form an concrete parrellels between any spec supp and the headaches

Thanks

 

[windwords7]

Back off the Alcar a little bro. Drop it to 2-3grams a day and see what happens.

 

[custom]

could be that you are taking too much ALA with not enough carbs, as it can cause you to go hypoglycemic, which can cause one nasty headache. Try to up the carbs w/your ALA and see if you feel better.


[QUOTEBut, I'm getting this headache... it seems to last about half the day, basically every day. Anyone have any idea what could be causing this? I stopped the ephedrine/tight stack I was on about ten days ago, figured it might be withdrawal from the stims... but its been too long for withdrawal symptoms still.

Anyone have any idea what this could be? I haven't been able to form an concrete parrellels between any spec supp and the headaches

Thanks [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[jweave23]

Originally posted by windwords7


I understand it to be only ALA to do that.

yep, R-ala has never done that for me. I'm at around 1g daily, have been for months

 

[entic]

Headache
I've been tearing into this anarchy stack pretty hard.
Biotin, 2 or 3 grams a day.

I hope you mean 2 or 3 mg of Biotin a day, because if not, I think I found your problem

By the way, make sure you are taking the rest of the B vitamins at a different time than biotin so that you don't get a vitamin difficiency [sp?].

 

[windwords7]

LMAO, yeah no joke. I bet he meant mg.

 

[Kylixer]

actually I meant 20 to 30 grams.... is that too much or something? I was wondering why I had to take like 40 pills a day...

yeah, I meant mg, sorry

and more carbs seems to be helping the head

 

[max silver]

This thread has me pretty excited to give the ALCAR a go. I've been cutting and using r-ala, biotin and gla, just waiting on my order from 1-fast to get in to start up the ALCAR as well.

I'm thinking of giving that a go for awhile without the cla as I'm already spending a ridiculous amount on supplements right now, but hopefully these will help me to keep the fat off once I end my current superone+cycle.

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

They have it now max silver

 

[Alpha Dog]

Rather than gulping 16 grams worth of CLA, 2 grams of ALC, 3 grams ALA, etc, etc. could you mix a days worth of powder with juice/water and just sip it throughout the day? Or do some of the actives in the stack degrade rapidly in water? I just hate taking gobs of pills and I often times forget.

 

[Kitchen Chemist]

I forget sometimes too bow, especially throughout the day. I see no reason why not but you never know.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

I got a reply from Bryan Haycock when I asked him questions on his view about green tea. Here it is:

You are right that reducing caloric intake or drastically altering macronutrient ratios in the diet can effect hormone levels.

However, my comments on the effects of green tea on androgen activity were based on a wider aray of research on the subject.

1) Hiipakka RA, Zhang HZ, Dai W, Dai Q, Liao S. Structure-activity relationships for inhibition of human 5alpha-reductases by polyphenols. Biochem Pharmacol. 2002 Mar 15;63(6):1165-76.

“Since some of these compounds [EGCG and others] are consumed as part of the normal diet or in supplements, they have the potential to inhibit 5 alpha-reductase activity, which may be useful for the prevention or treatment of androgen-dependent disorders.However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.”

2) Liao S. The medicinal action of androgens and green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Hong Kong Med J. 2001 Dec;7(4):369-74.

“It is now clear that a specific green tea catechin, (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate, can modulate the production and biological actions of androgens and other hormones.
Modulation of androgenic activity and administration of (-)epigallocatechin-3-gallate may be useful for the treatment of various hormone-related abnormalities, such as benign prostatic hyperplasia, baldness, and acne, as well as androgen-dependent and -independent prostate cancers.”


3) Ren F, Zhang S, Mitchell SH, Butler R, Young CY. Tea polyphenols down-regulate the expression of the androgen receptor in LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Oncogene. 2000 Apr 6;19(15):1924-32.

“In conclusion, we have described a new property of tea polyphenols that inhibits
androgen action by repressing the transcription of the androgen receptor gene.”


4) Liao S, Hiipakka RA. Selective inhibition of steroid 5 alpha-reductase isozymes by tea
epicatechin-3-gallate and epigallocatechin-3-gallate. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1995 Sep 25;214(3):833-8.

“(-)Epigallocatechin-3-gallate also inhibits accessory sex gland growth in the rat. These results suggest that certain tea gallates can regulate androgen action in target organs.”



And from the study you referred to…
5) Kao YH, Hiipakka RA, Liao S Modulation of endocrine systems and food intake by green tea epigallocatechin gallate. Endocrinology. 2000 Mar;141(3):980-7.

“The effect of EGCG on the weight of male accessory sexual organs was due to lowered circulating levels of testosterone. This conclusion is supported by the following observations. 1) Androgens such as TP and DHTP blocked the effect of EGCG on the weight of accessory sexual organs, including prostates. 2) EGCG did not reduce prostate weight in androgen-supplemented castrated Sprague Dawley rats (our unpublished observations). 3) EGCG-induced weight loss of prostate and other androgen-sensitive organs was accompanied by an EGCG-induced lowering of serum testosterone.”

Continuing…

“ Also, by lowering plasma levels of sex steroids and other endocrine factors, such as IGF-I, long term use of EGCG or green tea may be effective in the prevention and suppression of the growth of hormone-dependent and -independent prostate and breast cancer (14, 34, 35). This may relate to the low occurrence of breast and prostate cancer metastasis and mortality in some Asian countries (14, 36) where green tea is consumed regularly. Despite many potential benefits of green tea and EGCG consumption, it is also important to evaluate undesirable health-related consequences that may arise from EGCG- induced reductions in the levels of sex steroid hormones and other endocrine factors.”However, these compounds also may adversely affect male sexual differentiation.”

 

[motleybreu]

i started on saturday.....i feel great!! thanks ww7 for the heads up on this stuff and wojo and everyone for some good input. EVERYONE should give this stack a shot

 

[windwords7]

i started on saturday.....i feel great!! thanks ww7 for the heads up on this stuff and wojo and everyone for some good input. EVERYONE should give this stack a shot

You bet bro! Im glad I found it too.

 

[wojo]

Rather than gulping 16 grams worth of CLA, 2 grams of ALC, 3 grams ALA, etc, etc. could you mix a days worth of powder with juice/water and just sip it throughout the day? Or do some of the actives in the stack degrade rapidly in water? I just hate taking gobs of pills and I often times forget.

i know cla has a long halflife in the body im not so sure bout ala or alcar..si guess u could pop all ur cla at once and spreda the other 2 3x a day

 

[weissmuller]

Its been a while since I've posted here, but this thread caught my attention and wanted to give my input.

I've been using ALCar for a little over a week at 1 g/day over two doses and the stuff is incredible. Endurance in my morning cardio has improved dramatically and overall feel much more awake and alert. This stuff is awesome especially for its price. Gonna add a 3rd dosing very soon and later go up to 3 x 800mg.

Also started taking r-ALA in post-workout/cardio(only carb meals) at 200mg and will up this now that I am comfortable with it. In addition taking green tea extract from Now Foods and gonna play with its dosing.

Overall I've only seen short term effects, but they have been incredible, especially ALCar. Now I am just really need to fine-tune carb meals and supps a little.

The one question I have is CLA. It seems tonalin is the most respected form. But I was looking at NOW FOOD’s, which is a ton cheaper, and their percent composition of the 2 main isomers falls within the range of tonalin's. The only major difference was a lower percent of CLA in the product. Are there any other differences between the two? If not then NOW's is an incredible value. The main reason I ask is cause I have seen very little feedback on NOW's CLA and all the positive feedback is from a product that uses the tonalin CLA.

 

[wojo]

i know a lot of guys prefer the NOW brand as tonalin is priced rediculously high and every person i have read that tried kilosports cla(tonalin)
heres the cheapest i found

http://www.dextersportscience.com/productsbycat.cfm?catid=12

 

[Kylixer]

Hey, anyone see any problem with stacking the Anarchy stack with a two week cycle of UCP-1?

 

[windwords7]

Hey, anyone see any problem with stacking the Anarchy stack with a two week cycle of UCP-1?

No problem at all.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

No comments on the studies posted in my last reply?

 

[custom]

Wanted to gove a little update on my stack, as its the 5th week Im doing it.

I ran out of CLA, and my body composition has really seemed to suffer. I noticed it pretty quick, even though there was a zero change in diet and even an increase in cardio. I really think the CLA has some terrific reparitioning effects, and needless to say, this is going to be one of my staple supplements for some time to come.

I upped the dose of ALC from 500mg 3 times daily to 1 gram 3 times dialy, and muscle endurance is way up. I can crank out more reps on virtually every exercise, and cardio is getting musch easier since I did this as well.

Cant wait until I get some more CLA so I can get back to where I was asthetically wise. This stack is some good stuff.

 

[MJC#24]

Wanted to gove a little update on my stack, as its the 5th week Im doing it.

I ran out of CLA, and my body composition has really seemed to suffer. I noticed it pretty quick, even though there was a zero change in diet and even an increase in cardio. I really think the CLA has some terrific reparitioning effects, and needless to say, this is going to be one of my staple supplements for some time to come.

I upped the dose of ALC from 500mg 3 times daily to 1 gram 3 times dialy, and muscle endurance is way up. I can crank out more reps on virtually every exercise, and cardio is getting musch easier since I did this as well.

Cant wait until I get some more CLA so I can get back to where I was asthetically wise. This stack is some good stuff.

likewise mate. I ran out of CLA about 6 weeks ago but I also added ALCAR at the same time so I didn't gain any but actually lost some fat!
Which brand of CLA are you using bro? my 'instyncters' should be here any day now..

wojo,
ala exists as an antioxidant inside the cell for ~ 9 hrs and I believe ALCAR is still present for weeks after use, which is why you can still "feel" the effects even on the days you dont supp with it.

 

[wojo]

Wanted to gove a little update on my stack, as its the 5th week Im doing it.

I ran out of CLA, and my body composition has really seemed to suffer. I noticed it pretty quick, even though there was a zero change in diet and even an increase in cardio. I really think the CLA has some terrific reparitioning effects, and needless to say, this is going to be one of my staple supplements for some time to come.

I upped the dose of ALC from 500mg 3 times daily to 1 gram 3 times dialy, and muscle endurance is way up. I can crank out more reps on virtually every exercise, and cardio is getting musch easier since I did this as well.

Cant wait until I get some more CLA so I can get back to where I was asthetically wise. This stack is some good stuff.

i noticed a similar experience when i first tried cla ..since then it hasnt seemed to work as well for me..personally i prefer 2 grams of alcar and up going for 5 after this t-1 cycle

 

[custom]

For whoever asked, I was using BAC's CLA at 3 teaspoons (about 12 "active" grams) per day.

 

[Scottyo]

Good to get feedback on BAC's CLA...any problems with taste...quality, clumping etc?

 

[dodgy]

I just got the 75g bulk ALCAR from 1fast. Hmmm...no scoop, no instructions. Any ideas how i can measure this stuff out for dosing?

 

[RM BiggaFigga]

I just got the 75g bulk ALCAR from 1fast. Hmmm...scoop, no instructions. Any ideas how i can measure this stuff out for dosing?

Sure. 1/4 level teaspoon ~ 500 mg.

-RM

 

[custom]

Good to get feedback on BAC's CLA...any problems with taste...quality, clumping etc?

For taste, it just has the usual chalk-like taste, but its not bad at all. As for mixing, it will not mix with a spoon, so I just dumped a teaspoon in with my protein shake and hit the mix button on my little portable power mixer. works fine.

 

[dodgy]

Sure. 1/4 level teaspoon ~ 500 mg.

-RM

thanks


eeeeyyaaahhhh!! This stuff is sour! mix w/ juice or tea *not* coffee!

 

[wojo]

thats very kool..gotta checkout 1fast..mix it with oj or gatorade

 

[tatortodd]

I'm still chugging along on the Anarchy Stack and TKD. The scale hasn't moved the past two weeks, but my bfp has dropped 2 points. I'm definitely looking leaner and more vascular. Also, the old ego got a boost this week when somebody asked me if my arms were getting bigger.

I'm considering adding a yohimbine transdermal to speed along the process on the upper abs (already showing some definition) and start the process on the lower abs.

~Todd

 

[Scottyo]

While I am a fan of 1fast....BAC's alcar is still cheaper per gram. Also thinking of adding rhodiola in the mix and possibly chocamine, anyone with experience from either?

 

[dito]

I have been using Diesel Fuel and ENP they both have rhodiola in it. I just started with my alcar last week. Ill let you know how it does.

 

[custom]

Also using BAC's ALC, which you basically get 25 grams for free over 1fast. No complaints on the stuff.

 

[wojo]

While I am a fan of 1fast....BAC's alcar is still cheaper per gram. Also thinking of adding rhodiola in the mix and possibly chocamine, anyone with experience from either?

whats the rhodiola for? wjhat is chocamine?..been out of the loop actually away right now typing this

 

[Scottyo]

Rhodiola:
Rhodiola, aka Golden Root or Arctic Root, is our favorite adaptogen that has been shown to raise oxygen partition in arteries and blood saturation level and to lower blood viscosity while enhancing peripheral circulation. It improved total circulation, oxygen uptake and nutrient transport to the tissues while preventing hypoxy-related free radical generation. It has improved performance of athletes and those in high altitudes (such as climbing Mt. Everest without oxygen!) 89% of athletes in a study showed increased strength & speed in a variety of sports during periods of peak physical stress. Clinical research with healthy subjects showed improvement in depression, hearing, learning & memory, recovery from exercise, muscle gain, fat loss, liver detoxification, tumor resistance, and sexual function with normalization of prostate in males, all with no toxicity reported. It helps normalize mood by maintaining optimal levels of serotonin and dopamine in the brain. No detrimental side effects were reported even at many times the recommended dose of 200-600mg per day. (From BAC)

Its an adaptogen similar to ginseng that increases blood flow and has very promising research for fatloss purposes and energy. Doesn't necessarily add synergy like ALA/ALCAR/CLA, but is being reported with good results. Has some solid science behind it on pubmed....ill dig up the articles I have when I get the time.

 

[Scottyo]

Chocamine: is a cocoa extract that has the taste, aroma, and health benefits of chocolate standardized to the stimulating, thermogenic, mood & performance enhancing ingredients including 12% theobromine, 8% caffeine, theophyline & PEA. Promotes energy, fat burning, suppresses appetite, improves performance, and is a sexual stimulant - especially for women. Many users report an euphoric feeling. It was an instant hit here at BAC. A recent study showed theobromine to be an effective cough suppressant. Dose is 500-1000mg (1/4-1/2tsp) 1-3x/day taken plain in water, sweetened with stevia or xylitol, with coffee for hi-powered mocha, or any way you can use chocolate. (BAC)

A substitute for chocolate with many reported positive benefits. A lot of the bros on animal's board are mixing it with unflavored isolates and loving it. THe caffeine and PEA are noticable stimulants, giving sustained energy. The PEA content alone is pretty significant. Not sure about studies here though.

 

[wojo]

Rhodiola seens very similar to vin in increasing blood flow(considering i have vascular probs in both arms might need to look more into it)
the chocamione seems awesome drf may try it..thanx for the info scotty

 

[motleybreu]

wow i missed a lot more goin on in this thread....earlier this week one of my ALCAR caps opened in my vitamin container...so i took the powder...very very sour

i stacked it with UCP-1 for the past 2 weeks and have seen some pretty steady results.

Finally...great info scotty

 

[John.K]

know a lot of guys prefer the NOW brand as tonalin is priced rediculously high and every person i have read that tried kilosports cla(tonalin)

Sorry to bother, but I can't decipher the last part of that sentence. Can you clarify? Are you saying that a lot of people use Kilosports CLA? Or that Kilosports is too expensive? Or that every person you know who has tried Kilosports CLA is dis/satisfied?

What brand of CLA and ALCAR does Beyond a Century sell?

Regards

 

[wojo]

kilosports claims to sell tonalin,but everyone that i have heard that used it has been very unsatisfied. sorry i write too fast for my own good sometimes

 

[JWest0926]

Your all geniuses, I need your help.

I shoot for a TV show in 24 hours. Elimidate Chicago. I've been dieting for a month, but my abs need to look better. I need to dry out!

Of course, I need to keep my arms and shoulders pumped, thats clearly where the dieting worked! lol

Any tips appreciated. water/ salt/supps tricks ect

sorry for the ot

JWest

 

[Scottyo]

Ya....I think I am going to try the rhodiola and chocamine myself soon. Both look promising and seem to be good for fatigue, something I need working 4 jobs.

Jwest, kind of late to be asking bro. Not sure you can do much with 24 hours. Id probably just pop an ECA as it dries me out, could use lemon juice, potassium, green tea, dandelion root all diuretics of sorts. Ldex or letro would be solid but need more then 24hrs to reduce any estrogenic water retention. Also carb and sodium loading/depleting works but usually you need at least 5-7 days. I would point you towards Swole's article on it, but its a little late for that.

 

[John.K]

Thanks, Wojo. I appreciate the knowledge!

 

[motleybreu]

this is definately going to be a permanent stack...love it