Abieta-8,11,13-trien-18-oic acid

chedapalooza said:
Others can speak to this more certainly but I would imagine like with fish oil or cissus type products, just dose as far away from eachother as possible, like at least 4 hours apart
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I work out first thing in the AM and then dose my EP with my first meal post as per the label directions. Would it be acceptable to dose the EP before bed?
 
So...if arimistane is a slightly better AI than this new ingredient, why did PES make the switch? Am I missing something?
 
fasttaker said:
So...if arimistane is a slightly better AI than this new ingredient, why did PES make the switch? Am I missing something?
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Could anyone ask this question one more time?
 
fasttaker said:
I hadn't seen it asked before, and it hasn't been asked in this thread. I take it that no one has given a satisfactory answer yet?
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Well, arimistane had side effects in a lot of users that the new compound apparently doesn't have. They included more of it (100mg instead of 75mg of arimistane) so it should be a great option to ppl who had sides from the old formula.
 
tyrub42 said:
Well, arimistane had side effects in a lot of users that the new compound apparently doesn't have. They included more of it (100mg instead of 75mg of arimistane) so it should be a great option to ppl who had sides from the old formula.
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Gotcha. I appreciate it.
 
fasttaker said:
So...if arimistane is a slightly better AI than this new ingredient, why did PES make the switch? Am I missing something?
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Arimistane is slightly more potent in vitro. Read the OP. This new compound has demonstrated bioavailability in vivo (something arimistane didn't have as per studies, but the anecdote strongly supported it) and it comes with the nice "side effect" of multi PPAR agonism and fat loss
 
I understand for Abieta for some people that don't want sore joints.

But why couldn't PES make both versions?

Why not make the more joint friendly for those and the Arimistane version for those that DIDN'T suffer from joint pain?

I'm just askin. I'm in the process of giving Abieta a shot at the moment. But I was just thinking why this couldn't be a possibility.
 
Johnold said:
I understand for Abieta for some people that don't want sore joints.

But why couldn't PES make both versions?

Why not make the more joint friendly for those and the Arimistane version for those that DIDN'T suffer from joint pain?

I'm just askin. I'm in the process of giving Abieta a shot at the moment. But I was just thinking why this couldn't be a possibility.
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It wasnt DSHEA compliant. It's supposed to getting pulled but many still use it. Apparently studies show abieta is more potent AI without the sides.. So in PES' eyes, it was a non issue and better product
 
chedapalooza said:
It wasnt DSHEA compliant. It's supposed to getting pulled but many still use it. Apparently studies show abieta is more potent AI without the sides.. So in PES' eyes, it was a non issue and better product
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Actually it less potent than on if you look at studies. Neither is compliant but it was better for them to dc the OF and go with another since I'm sure it's caught the attention of the fda by now seeing so many companies use it
 
mw1 said:
Actually it less potent than on if you look at studies. Neither is compliant but it was better for them to dc the OF and go with another since I'm sure it's caught the attention of the fda by now seeing so many companies use it
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How was the original not compliant if it is a metabolite of dhea and that is compliant? How is the new one not compliant?
 
Yeah everyone is still using Arimistane.

Ohwell. Let's all hope in the long run it was for a really good reason.
 
SweetLou321 said:
How was the original not compliant if it is a metabolite of dhea and that is compliant? How is the new one not compliant?
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I think the compliance issue is just rumors and speculation. PES hasn't said anything about it and I think the change is unrelated. I would guess they changed it because so many other products use arimistane and they wanted to have an answer for people who can't use arimistane because of joint issues. It makes sense when you think about it from their perspective. They want new, cutting edge stuff that isn't offered widely. I just wish they kept both EPro formulas as I am in week 3 of my first EPro run and I haven't been this dry and vascular in...ever. maybe AS can release that extra extract in EPro as a solo product? That with Alphamax together would be insane for people who can tolerate arimistane!
 
As an FYI, the new formula works very well. Im currently on the second bottle of the new EPro. Although the results took longer, I am very impressed with the weight loss benefits. I am stacking it with the new ABE and aRa. Started my phat routine at 256. I am now sitting at 244. This is on a bulk. However by upper body is definitely thicker than before. Have gotten several compliments from almost everyone. The recomp affects are amazing. Arimistane does work faster and might have been stronger but it always kinda peaked at the third week for me. This new formula has continued to bring results
 
mechka_grizli said:
As an FYI, the new formula works very well. Im currently on the second bottle of the new EPro. Although the results took longer, I am very impressed with the weight loss benefits. I am stacking it with the new ABE and aRa. Started my phat routine at 256. I am now sitting at 244. This is on a bulk. However by upper body is definitely thicker than before. Have gotten several compliments from almost everyone. The recomp affects are amazing. Arimistane does work faster and might have been stronger but it always kinda peaked at the third week for me. This new formula has continued to bring results
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Interesting. Great feedback. Noticing some leaning now around week 3.5, almost week 4 and on a bulk. Only allotted myself 4 weeks but I will run for 8 next time, on a cut as well. But those numbers are great... Guess this is a true 8 week product
 
So with these results and it taking longer for things to kick in, I'm wondering whether this product should or could be run longer?. Even longer than 8 weeks since people seem to say it kicks in at around week 3 and beyond.
 
T-Bone said:
So with these results and it taking longer for things to kick in, I'm wondering whether this product should or could be run longer?. Even longer than 8 weeks since people seem to say it kicks in at around week 3 and beyond.
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Interesting question. However there is a guy who commented that he dosed one cap of the new formula reg erase along side new EPro , and he noted that the results kicked in faster and they were comparable to Arimistane
 
T-Bone said:
So with these results and it taking longer for things to kick in, I'm wondering whether this product should or could be run longer?. Even longer than 8 weeks since people seem to say it kicks in at around week 3 and beyond.
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Up for being a test dummy.
Depending on rep feedback on that idea
 
mechka_grizli said:
Interesting question. However there is a guy who commented that he dosed one cap of the new formula reg erase along side new EPro , and he noted that the results kicked in faster and they were comparable to Arimistane
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Driven2lift said:
Up for being a test dummy.
Depending on rep feedback on that idea
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Sounds like a solid approach IMO. Perhaps the solo erase could be dosed higher then.. 4 caps daily instead if 3 for 8 weeks and accelerated results. I would try it but my bottle is almost gone so it wouldn't be worth it/show a difference
 
T-Bone said:
So with these results and it taking longer for things to kick in, I'm wondering whether this product should or could be run longer?. Even longer than 8 weeks since people seem to say it kicks in at around week 3 and beyond.
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Well it takes longer to kick in, but the effects also last longer than a typical product once you've discontinued use. Something to think about
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Well it takes longer to kick in, but the effects also last longer than a typical product once you've discontinued use. Something to think about
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Interesting.. Is abieta suicidal like erase was?

Do you think the possibility exists for 4 caps a day like some dosed erased?
 
chedapalooza said:
Interesting.. Is abieta suicidal like erase was?

Do you think the possibility exists for 4 caps a day like some dosed erased?
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I've been using 3 caps a day for the last two weeks with 3 DAA and 1 extra pump of androgel. This would usually cause nipple activity but so far it has not at all.
I have some joint soreness but nothing like of at same dose.
Note: I've really just started back with my regular W o routine so I attribute the soreness partially to that
 
Johnold said:
I'm doing 5 caps a day atm with original Erase.
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I don't know anyone who ever ventured over 4 capsules per day.

Most people found 3 of the original more than enough with some even running it lower.

Edit: with the exception of Rosie who ran it at 5-6 caps per day apparently lol.
 
bdcc said:
I don't know anyone who ever ventured over 4 capsules per day.

Most people found 3 of the original more than enough with some even running it lower.

Edit: with the exception of Rosie who ran it at 5-6 caps per day apparently lol.
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Well I was doing 4 for a week than a couple days ago went to 5.

I'm looking forward to trying Erase Pro now.

Any sales on NP anytime soon on epro & abe?

Might order Epro & ABE tonight. Kinda flying through the OG stuff.
 
I'm still running 3 a day of the regular Erase. I'm starting week 3 today but no effects yet. Hoping that will change.
 
Johnold said:
Your first clue should have been the NO response from the reps.

EVERYONE has been asking this question since it's been out. No answer.
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This question has been answered already. A simple search in the supp company section will provide the amswer. Post number 10 in the Erase Pro thread. Coop answered it himself.

Your reply would could come across as negative when im sure it wasn't meant to. The PES guys are all good people, so Im sure they would not intentionally ignore someone's request for information
 
mechka_grizli said:
This question has been answered already. A simple search in the supp company section will provide the amswer. Post number 10 in the Erase Pro thread. Coop answered it himself.

Your reply would could come across as negative when im sure it wasn't meant to. The PES guys are all good people, so Im sure they would not intentionally ignore someone's request for information
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Well I didn't know. I guess I should have searched.

I am a PES user. Love the company and their products. No negativity here.
 
To be perfectly clear, the reps don't know the answer. I, however, did answer in another thread. Twice, actually. The available data and testing shows allosteric inhibition (vs competitive) due to what we observe with "upping the dose." As it is, allosteric inhibitors are synonymous with suicidal inhibitors in the AI category. It is possible this is an exception (the first one), but a great confirmation that it's suicidal would be people posting bloodwork 2-3 weeks after their cycle. This is a relatively new product so give it time.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
To be perfectly clear, the reps don't know the answer. I, however, did answer in another thread. Twice, actually. The available data and testing shows allosteric inhibition (vs competitive) due to what we observe with "upping the dose." As it is, allosteric inhibitors are synonymous with suicidal inhibitors in the AI category. It is possible this is an exception (the first one), but a great confirmation that it's suicidal would be people posting bloodwork 2-3 weeks after their cycle. This is a relatively new product so give it time.
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This is not entirely true as there are multiple ways allosteric inhibition can occur in a competitive fashion. I generally enjoy PES products quite a bit, but there seems to be uncertainties regarding the new erase compound... I would feel more comfortable if there were more definites/positive reviews and less speculation, especially regarding something as important as MOA.
 
Sighs.

I guess we need to see still.

ERASE PRO has been out long enough.

I'll give my opinion on it once I'm done with this first bottle.

But to be honest, I went from taking 4 caps of regular ERASE to now 6! A day!!!

If that doesn't tell you I don't know what will.

PRO will have its chance starting this Friday. By week 4 if nothing then I'll have to unfortunately give a brutal honest opinion.

Might go back to the competitor. Sighs.

Nothing made me piss more and dry out more noticeably than MAN: Nolvadren XT

My pee at times was ORANGE! stuff worked!

But something about them pissed me off. Might just have to get over it.


I shouldn't have to be taking 6 Erase pills a day in hopes to see something.

Pro has that extra ingredient. Last chance. Hoping it delivers.
 
Would this new formula still be efficient on epistane cycle pct on a tapered dose to prevent rebound gyno? I have it on hand to use after my cycle next month and I would like to have some peace of mind about it.
 
todd muelheim said:
This is not entirely true as there are multiple ways allosteric inhibition can occur in a competitive fashion. I generally enjoy PES products quite a bit, but there seems to be uncertainties regarding the new erase compound... I would feel more comfortable if there were more definites/positive reviews and less speculation, especially regarding something as important as MOA.
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No, allosteric inhibition cannot be competitive. You are thinking of partial agonists acting as antagonists, or of allosterism occurring in the absence of bound substrate...this is not what I'm talking about.

The MOA is allosteric aromatase inhibition. This compound has MORE definitives and scientific data than the previous compound. And as with the previous compound, repeated bloodwork is necessary to determine the MOA. That one was also allosteric but we did not know it was suicidal until quite a bit later. Preliminary studies will often examine kinetics of enzyme activity, which tells us competitive vs allosteric vs other mechanisms. Whether it's suicidal or not is typically determined in vivo unless there is already a high suspicion of suicidal activity, in which case they may radiolabel each constituent and see what pops
 
Johnold said:
Sighs.

I guess we need to see still.

ERASE PRO has been out long enough.

I'll give my opinion on it once I'm done with this first bottle.

But to be honest, I went from taking 4 caps of regular ERASE to now 6! A day!!!

If that doesn't tell you I don't know what will.

PRO will have its chance starting this Friday. By week 4 if nothing then I'll have to unfortunately give a brutal honest opinion.

Might go back to the competitor. Sighs.

Nothing made me piss more and dry out more noticeably than MAN: Nolvadren XT

My pee at times was ORANGE! stuff worked!

But something about them pissed me off. Might just have to get over it.


I shouldn't have to be taking 6 Erase pills a day in hopes to see something.

Pro has that extra ingredient. Last chance. Hoping it delivers.
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I am now taking 4 caps of Erase and may have to bump it up myself to either 5 or like in your case..6.
 
mr.cooper69 said:
No, allosteric inhibition cannot be competitive. You are thinking of partial agonists acting as antagonists, or of allosterism occurring in the absence of bound substrate...this is not what I'm talking about. The MOA is allosteric aromatase inhibition. This compound has MORE definitives and scientific data than the previous compound. And as with the previous compound, repeated bloodwork is necessary to determine the MOA. That one was also allosteric but we did not know it was suicidal until quite a bit later. Preliminary studies will often examine kinetics of enzyme activity, which tells us competitive vs allosteric vs other mechanisms. Whether it's suicidal or not is typically determined in vivo unless there is already a high suspicion of suicidal activity, in which case they may radiolabel each constituent and see what pops
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Yes they can
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Which part is this referring to lol If this is with respect to an allosteric inhibitor causing competitive inhibition, please post a (realistic/real-life) example that isn't a partial agonist or present only when the substrate is unbound
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I remember my old biochem prof saying it was a common misconception that allosteric inhibitors are only non competitive. To the point where people refer to them incorrectly. Most of the rest of your post was over my head.
 
todd muelheim said:
I remember my old biochem prof saying it was a common misconception that allosteric inhibitors are only non competitive. To the point where people refer to them incorrectly. Most of the rest of your post was over my head.
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Your professor is right. But what I'm referring to is binding "patterns." Allosterism is not the same as the binding pattern known as "allosteric inhibition." The binding pattern we observe with this compound is allosteric inhibition, regardless of whether or not there is a mild competitive component that gets overwhelmed in the process
 
cbsharpe said:
I am now taking 4 caps of Erase and may have to bump it up myself to either 5 or like in your case..6.
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Yeah . Let me know if it's working for you.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Erase Pro does differently from Regular Erase.

I haven't really been on regular Erase long enough. But by now the old version would've kicked in.

I have to wait...
 
Johnold said:
Yeah . Let me know if it's working for you. I'm looking forward to seeing what Erase Pro does differently from Regular Erase. I haven't really been on regular Erase long enough. But by now the old version would've kicked in. I have to wait...
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That's because the new version takes longer to kick in then the old.... Which has been stated numerous times.
 
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