Abieta-8,11,13-trien-18-oic acid

doggy_dog

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How big of a difference (in terms of efficacy) can one expect between Erase Pro and Erase (new versions of both)?
My primary goal will be fat loss and dryness (and I suppose muscle retention).

At more than double the price, is it worth going with EPRO?
From what I see, the only difference is the addition of Boerhaavia Diffusa Root Extract for EPro, correct?
 

TN Lift

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How big of a difference (in terms of efficacy) can one expect between Erase Pro and Erase (new versions of both)? My primary goal will be fat loss and dryness (and I suppose muscle retention). At more than double the price, is it worth going with EPRO? From what I see, the only difference is the addition of Boerhaavia Diffusa Root Extract for EPro, correct?
Personally, I just stick to erase. I have tried both and like both products, but did not quite find the "pro" version to be worth the extra ~$30.
 
bolt10

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How big of a difference (in terms of efficacy) can one expect between Erase Pro and Erase (new versions of both)?
My primary goal will be fat loss and dryness (and I suppose muscle retention).

At more than double the price, is it worth going with EPRO?
From what I see, the only difference is the addition of Boerhaavia Diffusa Root Extract for EPro, correct?
There is increased dosage of the Uncaria and the addition of B. Diffusa. The determination of it is worth the increased price will come down to personal goals, budget, and benefits derived from each. The Erase Pro will definitely be "better", but determining if you wish to pay more for that amount of increased results will depend on the person.
 

mr.cooper69

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How big of a difference (in terms of efficacy) can one expect between Erase Pro and Erase (new versions of both)?
My primary goal will be fat loss and dryness (and I suppose muscle retention).

At more than double the price, is it worth going with EPRO?
From what I see, the only difference is the addition of Boerhaavia Diffusa Root Extract for EPro, correct?
B. diffusa is in there for SERM action and a cortisol control, so you will be much dryer. The AI dose is also increased
 
doggy_dog

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B. diffusa is in there for SERM action and a cortisol control, so you will be much dryer. The AI dose is also increased
The man has spoken. :)


Thanks for everyone's input.

I was pissed that my 2 go-to supplement sites didn't have Erase Pro on sale... :(
 
T-Bone

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It reduces the activity of 5-alpha reductase.
That kinda sucks. I respond best to DHT type PH/DS...Always makes me feel great, improved mood, feel fantastic. I'd imagine anything that potentially lowers the conversion of testosterone to DHT would make me feel like crap. Is this a reasonable assumption or am I way off base?
 
Synapsin

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Is that what fenugreek does too?
I do not know of any literature stating it is, but I do know it has research showing it lowers DHT.

That kinda sucks. I respond best to DHT type PH/DS...Always makes me feel great, improved mood, feel fantastic. I'd imagine anything that potentially lowers the conversion of testosterone to DHT would make me feel like crap. Is this a reasonable assumption or am I way off base?
Such effects are too broad to link them to one single MoA.
 
southsideguy

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If Erase Pro lowers DHT, I will be throwing my erase pro in the trash. I want my DHT.

This sucks because I just purchased the freakin bottle
 

chedapalooza

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If Erase Pro lowers DHT, I will be throwing my erase pro in the trash. I want my DHT.

This sucks because I just purchased the freakin bottle
Right, is this the same moa as fenugreek? I only ran 1 bottle of regular erase and I was fine while on it, but truthfully had horrible estro rebound effects for about a month coming off..
 
Synapsin

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If Erase Pro lowers DHT, I will be throwing my erase pro in the trash. I want my DHT.

This sucks because I just purchased the freakin bottle
Right, is this the same moa as fenugreek? I only ran 1 bottle of regular erase and I was fine while on it, but truthfully had horrible estro rebound effects for about a month coming off..
Why are you guys concerned with DHT?
 
Synapsin

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Make no mistake about it; I love PES products
Of course, you're always free to ask questions and inquire further because its your health after all! I just wanted to know so I could understand your point of view before responding to make sure I am responding to what you're wondering about.
 

test112

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Synapsin,

Thanks for your responses.

The reason I asked is that while I'm sure it's not this simple, my understanding is that DHT itself helps with E control, and should at least help achieve similar goals as controlling E, whether drying/hardening the physique, or just generally swinging the hormone balance towards the androgenic side and the benefits on mood, libido and strength. Certainly many consumers who purchase supps for controlling E (for whatever purpose) would probably not want to drive down DHT as well.

I've always been wary of supps that negatively affect DHT/5ar, whether on purpose as part of their MOA to supposedly boost test, or natural AI compounds which act on 5ar as well as aromatase. Is there any way to quantify DHAA's relative potency against each enzyme?

I'm surprised that as far as I can tell this hasn't really come up on this board before, given that PES and SNS are both using this compound in their E control products.
 

mr.cooper69

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I'm not sure what literature is being cited, but Abieta-8,11,13-trien-18-oic acid doesn't lower DHT. By inhibiting aromatase, it shunts more testosterone to the DHT pathway and will consuequently raise DHT. The prominent AI that acts as a 5ar reductase inhibitor is formestane, but erase will not do this.

I think the confusion lies in the fact that Abieta-7,13-dien-18-oic acid, a similar compound, is a 5ar inhibitor
 
NoAddedHmones

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The natural phytochemical dehydroabietic acid is an anti-aging reagent that mediates the direct activation of SIRT1

Dehydroabietic acid (DAA) is a naturally occurring diterpene resin acid of confers, such as pinus species (P. densiflora, P. sylvestris) and grand fir (Abies grandis), and it induces various biological actions including antimicrobial, antiulcer, and cardiovascular activities. The cellular targets that mediate these actions are largely unknown yet. In this report, we suggest that DAA is an anti-aging reagent. DAA has lifespan extension effects in Caenorhabditis elegans, prevents lipofuscin accumulation, and prevents collagen secretion in human dermal fibroblasts.

We found that these anti-aging effects are primarily mediated by SIRT1 activation. Lifespan extension effects by DAA were ameliorated in sir-2.1 mutants and SIRT1 protein expression was increased, resulting in the deacetylation of SIRT1 target protein PGC-1α. Moreover, DAA binds directly to the SIRT1 protein independent of the SIRT1 substrate NAD+ levels. Through a molecular docking study, we also propose a binding model for DAA-SIRT1. Taken together, our results demonstrate that the anti-aging effects are the first identified biological property of DAA and that the direct activation of SIRT1 enzymatic activity suggests the potential use of this natural diterpene, or related compounds, in age-related diseases or as a preventive reagent against the aging process.

Wonder if this will translate to humans one day?
 
T-Bone

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The natural phytochemical dehydroabietic acid is an anti-aging reagent that mediates the direct activation of SIRT1

Dehydroabietic acid (DAA) is a naturally occurring diterpene resin acid of confers, such as pinus species (P. densiflora, P. sylvestris) and grand fir (Abies grandis), and it induces various biological actions including antimicrobial, antiulcer, and cardiovascular activities. The cellular targets that mediate these actions are largely unknown yet. In this report, we suggest that DAA is an anti-aging reagent. DAA has lifespan extension effects in Caenorhabditis elegans, prevents lipofuscin accumulation, and prevents collagen secretion in human dermal fibroblasts.

We found that these anti-aging effects are primarily mediated by SIRT1 activation. Lifespan extension effects by DAA were ameliorated in sir-2.1 mutants and SIRT1 protein expression was increased, resulting in the deacetylation of SIRT1 target protein PGC-1α. Moreover, DAA binds directly to the SIRT1 protein independent of the SIRT1 substrate NAD+ levels. Through a molecular docking study, we also propose a binding model for DAA-SIRT1. Taken together, our results demonstrate that the anti-aging effects are the first identified biological property of DAA and that the direct activation of SIRT1 enzymatic activity suggests the potential use of this natural diterpene, or related compounds, in age-related diseases or as a preventive reagent against the aging process.

Wonder if this will translate to humans one day?
Nerd stuff. I read it but didn't quite understand it. Just thought DAA GOOD!.
 

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