A Report from the White Community

[teribleturtle]

For a while in the tail end of the 90s when I had more free time, I used to work with a group that took in computers that businesses were getting rid of as part of an upgrade cycle, cleaned them up, reinstalled OS, installed educational stuff on them, and put them in low income area parks that had lockable buildings. Worked out some, the technological divide is another piece of the puzzle nowadays, you can't do crap for a job if you can't type.

So I did some brief research on testosterone levels, race, and crime/risky behaivior. Turns out that Black and Mexican males have the highest levels of testosterone. In a few studies I found, it listed Mexican males as having slightly higher testosterone levels than Blacks. I also understand that a correlation but not causality has been documented between high testosterone levels and crime/risky behaivior. This is what I mean by debate and dialouge leading to a higher understanding, I will continue examining this subject perhaps consult with some sociologists and anthropologists that I know and hear their take on this subject. Just google "Black males testosterone levels" or Mexican-American males testosterone levels.

 

[EasyEJL]

Interesting, i'm going to have to look for that.

 

[goslamacamel]

So I did some brief research on testosterone levels, race, and crime/risky behaivior. Turns out that Black and Mexican males have the highest levels of testosterone. In a few studies I found, it listed Mexican males as having slightly higher testosterone levels than Blacks. I also understand that a correlation but not causality has been documented between high testosterone levels and crime/risky behaivior. This is what I mean by debate and dialouge leading to a higher understanding, I will continue examining this subject perhaps consult with some sociologists and anthropologists that I know and hear their take on this subject. Just google "Black males testosterone levels" or Mexican-American males testosterone levels.

That's why hispanic men have the highest sperm count.

 

[Dadof2]

That's why hispanic men have the highest sperm count.

Hispanic as in European Spanish, or Latin American?

 

[Chad]

That's why hispanic men have the highest sperm count.

no, no. I have the highest sperm count. and maybe hispanics come in 2nd.

 

[teribleturtle]

Hispanic as in European Spanish, or Latin American?

The studies all specifically mention Mexican males. My understanding is that Mexican racial composition is primarily Indian/Amerindian, with some White( southern European, Iberian) and Black.

 

[Dadof2]

The studies all specifically mention Mexican males. My understanding is that Mexican racial composition is primarily Indian/Amerindian, with some White( southern European, Iberian) and Black.

I thought they may have been referencing folks from the Iberian peninsula, which would explain my inability to have sex with my wife without producing another offspring.

 

[goslamacamel]

I thought they may have been referencing folks from the Iberian peninsula, which would explain my inability to have sex with my wife without producing another offspring.

Anecdotal evidence tells me it's especially the short half-Aztec looking Mexicans who can breed like rabbits. (Texas).

 

[teribleturtle]

Anecdotal evidence tells me it's especially the short half-Aztec looking Mexicans who can breed like rabbits. (Texas).

Im part Mexican and P.R. and I find that hilarious, hilarious because in many cases its true lol! I know they are just anecdotes but I still remember that in high school it was usually the Mexican dudes who were in the 9th and 10th grades sporting full beards, mustaches, and were basically built like grown men. wow this thread really took a turn.

 

[EasyEJL]

hmm not really it started with the white community saying "stop blaming us, we're not holding you back, we're also not giving you a free ride" and now we're examining some of the factors that still cause the cycles of poverty. how much more does it cost to raise 5 children than 2?

 

[Jayhawkk]

Not a hell of a lot more if the govt is paying for it...

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Not a hell of a lot more if the govt is paying for it...

Which means you are....

 

[goslamacamel]

Which means you are....

Paying for neglected children to grow up and become gang members so they can rob my house in 10 years? Count me in!

 

[Fastone]

At the same time, excusing people based on where they are born rather than based on their actions is a joke, and part of the culture of failure that continues to plague the black community which didn't plague the irish, the italians, the chinese or any of the groups of immigrants including the hispanics.

I grew up with a father who didn't know his father. his father abandoned his mom and family of 5 boys and 1 girl about 6 months after the youngest was born. My dad grew up illiterate as he had to do odd jobs to make enough money to feed the family from the age of 7, along with the 2 of his brothers who were older. Washing dishes, delivering newspapers, delivering groceries, washing cars, whatever he could make a dime, or even get something in barter for.



I grew up in a less than wonderful neighborhood, eating free school lunches as even in the 80s you couldn't exactly make a pile of money if you couldn't read. Did either my father or I use that as an excuse to not be responsible for ourselves? nope.

And there is the real problem, the huge volume of young black men aren't in jail because of prejudice, they end up there because they chose to commit a crime because they believed there was nothing else they could do because even their community leaders tell them they will fail. refusing to take responsibility for yourself and commiting crimes because "they white man is holding you down" is ridiculous

There is a lot of truth to what you say however, of all of the ethnic groups you mention, none were brought here against their will, each of those groups had each other for support. The black community was brought here and their families ravaged and torn apart, the effects of which are still felt today. There was a time when a black person would be turned down for those odd jobs your father did just because of skin color. There is no doubt that the Italians and Irish were treated horribly when they came to America but eventually they were able to assimilate into society because they were white and eventually found a niche. btw, If you truly look into history, you will also find that there was a lot of crime in other ethnic groups which in some ways led to upward mobility of those groups. Not an excuse, just the truth.

:bruce3:

 

[BLACK747]

amen brother

 

[EasyEJL]

There is a lot of truth to what you say however, of all of the ethnic groups you mention, none were brought here against their will, each of those groups had each other for support. The black community was brought here and their families ravaged and torn apart, the effects of which are still felt today. There was a time when a black person would be turned down for those odd jobs your father did just because of skin color. There is no doubt that the Italians and Irish were treated horribly when they came to America but eventually they were able to assimilate into society because they were white and eventually found a niche. btw, If you truly look into history, you will also find that there was a lot of crime in other ethnic groups which in some ways led to upward mobility of those groups. Not an excuse, just the truth.

:bruce3:

But how long will slavery get used an excuse? the last slave ship was landed here almost 200 years ago. The black communities have each other for support now, but somehow won't work together to end the crime in their communities and make the fathers take care of their children. Its easier to still go "its not my fault, whitey is against us". When does self responsibility start? Anyone living in the ghetto or projects or whatever can get a decent set of clothes from salvation army or a church closet, get a GED if they didn't finish college, and find themselves a job that maybe to begin with isn't glamorous and doesn't pay tons, but that they can move up in. They can go to the library to learn more, or take advantage of programs with community colleges.

But its easier to say the white man is holding them down and instead sit on a set of stairs drinkin a 40, and break into cars when they need some money for new $150 sneakers. And people like reverend wright who they look to as leaders perpetuate that.

 

[Fastone]

But how long will slavery get used an excuse? the last slave ship was landed here almost 200 years ago. The black communities have each other for support now, but somehow won't work together to end the crime in their communities and make the fathers take care of their children. Its easier to still go "its not my fault, whitey is against us". When does self responsibility start? Anyone living in the ghetto or projects or whatever can get a decent set of clothes from salvation army or a church closet, get a GED if they didn't finish college, and find themselves a job that maybe to begin with isn't glamorous and doesn't pay tons, but that they can move up in. They can go to the library to learn more, or take advantage of programs with community colleges.

But its easier to say the white man is holding them down and instead sit on a set of stairs drinkin a 40, and break into cars when they need some money for new $150 sneakers. And people like reverend wright who they look to as leaders perpetuate that.

First of all, I wasn't using slavery as an excuse but has any other ethnic group suffered through that and the systemic racism that followed. Also who says that Reverend Wright speaks for the black community, he doesn't speak for me. Heck, there have been white clergy that preached open hatred and racism. It's wrong on either side but, we live in a country where you have the right to speak your mind. I love the way you guys like to talk about black fathers not taking care of their children. Not to say that it doesn't happen but I can can tell you from working in the mental health profession that there are a lot of white guys out there living WITH their children and giving them no more support in their upbringing than the so called deadbeat black fathers because they stay drunk or shoot meth and since you wish to throw around stereotypes, the instances of incest and abuse are far more prevalent in the white community than the black community. There are also more whites on assistance than blacks. Now part of that has to do with the fact that there are simply more white people but my point is to not paint the race with a broad brush based on your limited exposure.

:bruce3:

 

[EasyEJL]

What sort of changes undermined by the white establishment? Name 1 in the last 20 years.

 

[Dadof2]

There is a lot of truth to what you say however, of all of the ethnic groups you mention, none were brought here against their will, each of those groups had each other for support. The black community was brought here and their families ravaged and torn apart, the effects of which are still felt today. There was a time when a black person would be turned down for those odd jobs your father did just because of skin color. There is no doubt that the Italians and Irish were treated horribly when they came to America but eventually they were able to assimilate into society because they were white and eventually found a niche. btw, If you truly look into history, you will also find that there was a lot of crime in other ethnic groups which in some ways led to upward mobility of those groups. Not an excuse, just the truth.

But now it is not slavers tearing families apart, now it is government policy and looking the other way by the black community.

Did you know that before the welfare policies adopted by LBJ a black child had a 70% chance of being born into a family with both a mom and a dad? Now it is the complete opposite!

Having two working parents is an awesome way to stave off poverty, and have a better chance in life. Yet, this is a very unpopular message in the black community, why?

Because the Democratic party gets automatic votes from the black community for government handouts, the democrats are literally keeping people down for personal gain! If there were more black nuclear families there would be fewer people needing SSI and food stamps, and more resistance to the redistribution of wealth. Many civil rights era "black leaders" would also find themselves out of work.

And that is why a man like Bill Cosby gets demonized by such people for saying the exact same things that I am saying! Bill Cosby isn't trying to act white, the man loves his people, and that is the reason he is saying such things. Because the family is the only thing that can save the black community....not the government and its handouts....and not race pimps!

So accuse me of being racist for noticing such things, but excuse the people who are really behind the oppression of an entire race of people.

 

[goslamacamel]

I say we Anglo and Saxon whites march over to Italy and demand reparations for the cruelties of the Romans. We (personally, mind you :toofunny were enslaved and forced to die in many wars because of the Roman Empire. Don't trust Italians!

 

[bkprice]

It has nothing to do with being white, it has to do with working. Asians come here and in a very short time do more then most black because they work and have family support, its not a complicated problem, its just people not wanting to do what it takes, period.

Also, I dont care if you dont make it, I wont lose sleep or feel guilt if you keep doing stupid things and cant feed your ass.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I don't think its whitey that replaced "husband" with "my babies daddy".

 

[EasyEJL]

I don't think I recall hearing "he's so crazy I wanna have his baby" outside of the ghetto

 

[Gtarzan81]

But now it is not slavers tearing families apart, now it is government policy and looking the other way by the black community.

Did you know that before the welfare policies adopted by LBJ a black child had a 70% chance of being born into a family with both a mom and a dad? Now it is the complete opposite!

Having two working parents is an awesome way to stave off poverty, and have a better chance in life. Yet, this is a very unpopular message in the black community, why?

Because the Democratic party gets automatic votes from the black community for government handouts, the democrats are literally keeping people down for personal gain! If there were more black nuclear families there would be fewer people needing SSI and food stamps, and more resistance to the redistribution of wealth. Many civil rights era "black leaders" would also find themselves out of work.

And that is why a man like Bill Cosby gets demonized by such people for saying the exact same things that I am saying! Bill Cosby isn't trying to act white, the man loves his people, and that is the reason he is saying such things. Because the family is the only thing that can save the black community....not the government and its handouts....and not race pimps!

So accuse me of being racist for noticing such things, but excuse the people who are really behind the oppression of an entire race of people.

True indeed. :clap2: Reps

 

[Gtarzan81]

I say we Anglo and Saxon whites march over to Italy and demand reparations for the cruelties of the Romans. We (personally, mind you :toofunny were enslaved and forced to die in many wars because of the Roman Empire. Don't trust Italians!

I'm, Greek, so I really got some reparations coming. They jacked our culture,gods, and took over our land.

 

[SilentBob187]

I'm, Greek, so I really got some reparations coming. They jacked our culture,gods, and took over our land.

You're a madman! You speak of madness!
...

 

[bpmartyr]

One word to destroy the concept of victimhood keeping a community down: Jews.

How many times were they enslaved? How many times were they kidnapped from there native land to work as slaves in another? Why are they then so successful all over the world?

If you can't be successful in this land of opportunity there is no excuse. The only real employment racism here is against the white male. Ever hear of affirmative action?

"Why yes Mr. Stevens, you certainly are more than qualified and would make a perfect addition to the company but we need to diversify so... I am giving the job to Tyrone."

"I understand that you are just as broke as Tyrone Mr. Stevens, but your tuition will still be higher than his. It's policy."

 

[Fastone]

Well in report from the Black community, you're all *******s. You speak of the Jewish community and yes they did suffer over the centuries but once again their families came here INTACT and they were able to set up their OWN communities. Also as a result of their skin color, they could hide the ethnic origin. You guys know SO much that you are totally ignorant. This whole thread has just proved to me how far we haven't come as a society. This will be my last post on this issue and on this site for that matter. Too many of you are mixing your methyls. And btw bpmartyr, I've more than topped your insults

Later

:bruce3:

 

[EasyEJL]

Ok reverend wright, blame the situation on everyone else, not the people committing the crimes, or abandoning their children.

 

[ManBeast]

Lets take it easy guys, again, we don't need this blowing up, personal insults won't help anything.

MB

 

[Gtarzan81]

From a song, dont remember who sings it:

"Who that is?"
"that's just my baby's daddy."

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Ok reverend wright, blame the situation on everyone else, not the people committing the crimes, or abandoning their children.

The white man is slipping. 65% of new doctors are of Asian decent. How could whitey let them slip through the system...

:toofunny:

 

[EasyEJL]

I haven't seen a doctor who wasn't an indian or pakistani in so long, I can't remember the last time.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I haven't seen a doctor who wasn't an indian or pakistani in so long, I can't remember the last time.

"Not that there is anything wrong with that"


:toofunny:

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Well in report from the Black community, you're all *******s.

Debate at its best.


All of you are. Everyone...if you are looking at this, that means you.

 

[EasyEJL]

"Not that there is anything wrong with that"


:toofunny:

so long as I can understand them and they can understand me, and they understand their field thats all that counts. if I can't understand them, then its on to another dr.

 

[goslamacamel]

Well in report from the Black community, you're all *******s. You speak of the Jewish community and yes they did suffer over the centuries but once again their families came here INTACT and they were able to set up their OWN communities. Also as a result of their skin color, they could hide the ethnic origin. You guys know SO much that you are totally ignorant. This whole thread has just proved to me how far we haven't come as a society. This will be my last post on this issue and on this site for that matter. Too many of you are mixing your methyls. And btw bpmartyr, I've more than topped your insults

Later

:bruce3:

lol @ jews can hide their ethnic origin through skin color. I guess Hitler could get 6 million of them with his patented jewdar?

 

[EasyEJL]

I guess theres the same answer, its easier to blame the outside than it is to blame the inside

 

[Fastone]

Ok reverend wright, blame the situation on everyone else, not the people committing the crimes, or abandoning their children.

Which situation have I blamed on anyone else?. I don't deny that there are problematic issues in the black community but by the same token, I have stated some facts that you and others choose to ignore by repeating tired stereotypes. Once again you wish to bring up the so called "child abandonment issue" but you don't address the fact of incest and abuse that permeates the white community. Why? because they're just "poor misguided individuals who need help", right? Talk about looking the other way. My point in this is that every ethnic group has their problems. You just don't choose to believe yours exist. btw, not all of you are *******s, just 95% (lol).

:bruce3:

 

[goslamacamel]

Which situation have I blamed on anyone else?. I don't deny that there are problematic issues in the black community but by the same token, I have stated some facts that you and others choose to ignore by repeating tired stereotypes. Once again you wish to bring up the so called "child abandonment issue" but you don't address the fact of incest and abuse that permeates the white community. Why? because they're just "poor misguided individuals who need help", right? Talk about looking the other way. My point in this is that every ethnic group has their problems. You just don't choose to believe yours exist. btw, not all of you are *******s, just 95% (lol).

:bruce3:

They're not poor misguided individuals who need help, they're sadistic pieces of **** who need to be jailed promptly.

 

[Nabisco]

I'd like to make a quick point here. And this point was derived from a very similar conversation with a good friend of mine, who was also a work colleague (and African American). He was a supervisor at my manufacturing plant and a very open and honest guy. So during a conversation one evening I asked him about the "cultural attitude" in the black community, he followed with an equally philosophical question about Caucasian people ("Why do white people smell like wet dogs when they get wet?"). Skipping past this rather technical question of his, we'll return to my question of him.

His response summed up, is that he believes that the popularized culture of the African American community is counter productive and solely blames that on the African American community. But then he brought up a point that I hadn't looked at before. The black community has only had 200-300 years to develop the financial aspects of their community and family units, where as, everyone else has had nearly five times that amount of time. Let me break it down real quickly.

My Great-great-grandparents (there might have been another great in there) came over from Germany just after the first world war (they were Jewish, my family is no longer jewish and I haven't found where the religion changed). So consider them European Jews. They've been working, learning, and becoming financially "astute" for generations. One thousand years ago, they could still own a home, save money, build businesses (doing whatever). The black community has really only had 200-300 years, or four-six generations to develop this side of their culture. So think about that for a second. So when my Great-great-grandparents came over (fairly poor at the time), they still had the knowledge base to become financially well off. Because for generations before that, they understood the financial institution that is the world. My colleagues Great-great-grandparents were one or two generation out of slavery. They were just becoming immersed in the world as it was...shut off from the majority of functions everyone else was entitled to. If you regard history much, its only been in the past two generations that the black community has begun moving out of the "ghettos" and/or renting, into the larger community of owning a home. So while my ancestors have had 20 generations to learn and adapt with the world financially (for lack of a better word), my colleagues family has had four generations.

Now I'm not saying the African American community gets a free pass because of this. I'm just bringing it up, because I never looked at it from this perspective before. So there's my 2 cents.

 

[EasyEJL]

Which situation have I blamed on anyone else?. I don't deny that there are problematic issues in the black community but by the same token, I have stated some facts that you and others choose to ignore by repeating tired stereotypes. Once again you wish to bring up the so called "child abandonment issue" but you don't address the fact of incest and abuse that permeates the white community. Why? because they're just "poor misguided individuals who need help", right? Talk about looking the other way. My point in this is that every ethnic group has their problems. You just don't choose to believe yours exist. btw, not all of you are *******s, just 95% (lol).

:bruce3:

There are all sorts of problems in all sorts of communities. If you go back to the original post, its just an open letter from a piece of the "white community" asking the black community to stop blaming whites, and take responsibilities for their own actions.

Those incestuous abusive white families aren't blaming someone else for them being that way, and the rest of the white community doesn't blame some outside group in some speculous unrelated way. But we blame individuals for individual actions, trying to hold individuals responsible. not trying to avoid our own culpability by using what may have happened to our greatgrandparents as an excuse for our actions today.

 

[EasyEJL]

I've kept meaning to (but keep forgetting) to post this as an odd/interesting perspective. I have a bunch of friends who are non american black. Jamaicans, Haitians, Dominicans, etc. Interestingly enough, most of them feel no differently about the american blacks than the opinions voiced here, and refuse to associate themselves with the american black population/community.

 

[teribleturtle]

Well in report from the Black community, you're all *******s. You speak of the Jewish community and yes they did suffer over the centuries but once again their families came here INTACT and they were able to set up their OWN communities. Also as a result of their skin color, they could hide the ethnic origin. You guys know SO much that you are totally ignorant. This whole thread has just proved to me how far we haven't come as a society. This will be my last post on this issue and on this site for that matter. Too many of you are mixing your methyls. And btw bpmartyr, I've more than topped your insults

Later

:bruce3:

I think that there is vaidity to your argument. A problem that many Blacks face who actually want to succeed is that the negative stereotypes and portrayals of them only serve as another obstacle. Also for the Black youth who have to hear these negative messages and portrayals of them, it becomes easy for them to have low self esteems and think they cannot do anything. Breaking the cycle of poverty and hopelessness is a real uphill battle for Blacks, probably harder than any other ethnic group has had it. While not impossible for Blacks to succeed it will be dependant on two factors; 1. Addressing problems within the community ( Families, crime, jobs) 2. American society eliminating the negative stereotypes, and misconceptions often atributed to Blacks, in order to level the playing field and gives Blacks a shot at competing, and not simply dismiss them as inferior. Handouts are not the solution, oppotunities are. Go into the inner cities as far as jobs are concerned there really isnt anything there that would allow Blacks to succeed. This is partially due to the globalized economy, the outsourcing of decent working class jobs (industry,manufacturing) and filling in with dead end service sector jobs in which many Blacks find themselves.

 

[Bionic]

Jews got their Nazi gold. They were found out by the Nazis by their circumcisions. Hell even the Native Americans got casinos and their free education and tax-free status. So now when Affirmative Action gets put into place which is NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK BTW, everyone has something negative to say. I think Chris Rock said it best "I don't agree with an un-qualified person getting a job over a qualified one. But if it's a tie...**** 'em!"
Many of you seem to think it's so cut and dried. You can see what centuries of being told "you ain't sh!t and are barely even human" can do to a people. Keep beating a child down and demeaning his self-worth and watch what kind of adult you produce.
I posted this story in another thread. When I first got into the production industry, I had to temp in between gigs or while on a hiatus to make ends meet. Well, I got a temp job at another employment agency. There were a bunch of jobs that paid REALLY well (like $25. p/h) that I was specifically told to not refer any black people for. I was even given a memo by the employer that said as much. Now, I'm only half-black and am "passable" so they had no idea who they were dealing with. Guess what I did? HAHAHA??? Needless to say, I was threatened to be fired and asked if I was stupid. I calmly informed them of their illegal business practices and would go public with it should I get anything less than a sparkling reference and a full day's pay. After speaking with other employees, I learned that this practice was very common in EVERY employment agency that they'd worked for. Institutional racism at its finest. Keep in mind, this wasn't the south in the 60's. This was NYC at the end of the 20th Century.
And guess what? Not EVERY black person blames "Whitey." You see one (or even a hundred) guys on TV saying some ignorant crap and all of a sudden, they're the voice of ALL black people. You need to understand that the "News" is TV and they pick and choose who gets on air to make "good TV." That's a whole other topic though. But to all of you who think it's as easy for black to "get it together" as other races, you have NO idea. I've seen some "behind the scenes" things (one of which I've shared with you) with my own eyes and unless you were there, you can't tell me anything. Furthermore, the gross generalizations being made in this thread are just straight up ignorant.

 

[Bionic]

I've kept meaning to (but keep forgetting) to post this as an odd/interesting perspective. I have a bunch of friends who are non american black. Jamaicans, Haitians, Dominicans, etc. Interestingly enough, most of them feel no differently about the american blacks than the opinions voiced here, and refuse to associate themselves with the american black population/community.

This is a side-effect of European Colonialism and straight up ignorance.

 

[EasyEJL]

After speaking with other employees, I learned that this practice was very common in EVERY employment agency that they'd worked for. Institutional racism at its finest. Keep in mind, this wasn't the south in the 60's. This was NYC at the end of the 20th Century.

Actually i've said that before myself, I sort of prefer the direct prejudices of the south better than the hidden ones of the north. at least in the south they will say it to your face.

 

[teribleturtle]

This is a side-effect of European Colonialism and straight up ignorance.

Check out Frantz Fanon's "Black Skin White Masks" basically an account of other pyschological effects that rascism/colonialism has had not only on Blacks but colonized/oppressed racial groups in general. Based on your posts it seems to me though, that you might already be familiar with Fanon.

 

[Bionic]

Check out Frantz Fanon's "Black Skin White Masks" basically an account of other pyschological effects that rascism/colonialism has had not only on Blacks but colonized/oppressed racial groups in general. Based on your posts it seems to me though, that you might already be familiar with Fanon.

Thanks for the info, T. I've not read it but am aware of him and his work.

 

[goslamacamel]

I've kept meaning to (but keep forgetting) to post this as an odd/interesting perspective. I have a bunch of friends who are non american black. Jamaicans, Haitians, Dominicans, etc. Interestingly enough, most of them feel no differently about the american blacks than the opinions voiced here, and refuse to associate themselves with the american black population/community.

Oh man, real Africans come here and hate black Americans.