911 We shall make them pay
- Thread starter BioHazzard
- Start date
jmh80
Well-known member
Chaps - did they take into account physical damage by the planes to the steel girders/load bearing members???
That would decrease the amount of heat (as measured by temperature) required to cause fatigue failure.
I'm asking all these questions - but I honestly won't watch the video. Would take too much time - and I'm borderline ADD as it is...
That would decrease the amount of heat (as measured by temperature) required to cause fatigue failure.
I'm asking all these questions - but I honestly won't watch the video. Would take too much time - and I'm borderline ADD as it is...
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
The towers were designed to take multiple impacts of the biggest airplane of the time. I believe a 767? Dont quote me on that.
Those buildings were retard strong. Redundancy comes to mind. If the top would have fell off, i could believe that. But the way they crumbled onto themselves, indicates pyrotechnics, explosives.
Those buildings were retard strong. Redundancy comes to mind. If the top would have fell off, i could believe that. But the way they crumbled onto themselves, indicates pyrotechnics, explosives.
CHAPS
Registered User
Yep exactly they were designed to take multiple impacts of some big ass aircraft and in the video i posted you can see the one tower once the plane hit did what it was designed to do and it shifted the weight onto the other supporting members. JMHO watch the video i posted earlier in the thread and they talk about the steel used.
jmh80
Well-known member
Naw - I don't have time for that.
One thing that annoys me is conspiracy theories.
Why?
As I learned from one of the best chemical engineer consultants in the industry: "Mr. JMH80 - a theory without a test is nothing but bullsh*t - or, at least, nothing but a bunch of long chain protein molecules."
One thing that annoys me is conspiracy theories.
Why?
As I learned from one of the best chemical engineer consultants in the industry: "Mr. JMH80 - a theory without a test is nothing but bullsh*t - or, at least, nothing but a bunch of long chain protein molecules."
jarhead
Well-known member
Chaps and Kristoffer- some people will refuse to look at actual facts, and will stick to what the government feeds them like a newborn on a titty. 1st clue- NEVER in the history of architecture has a building collapsed from fire damage. They will ignore this SIMPLE UNDISPUTABLE FACT yet say we are crazy and WE ignore common sense. They can talk about steel, temperatures, and structural damage,all the want but the simple truth is science doesn't back THEM up. Kerosene doen't melt steel. The steel wasn't weakened enough for a collapse. Eyewitnesses were hurt by explosives. Firefighters called the fires small and easily contained. A simple look at the design of the building will tell them this( as well as the engineers who designed them for christ sakes).They keep quoting what government employees are saying. That is all they have to hold onto and that is why they resort to insults because they have nothing else. I have yet to hear anyone of these guys point out any idea that didn't come from the government, yet they call us crazy. They use cute terms such as "conspiracy theory" to immediatly discredit any sort of free thinking when all we really want is accountability from our government and a legit investigation.
If someone told me " this has never happened In history, yet happened 3 TIMES IN ONE DAY curiosity alone would cause me to raise an Eyebrow.
If someone told me " this has never happened In history, yet happened 3 TIMES IN ONE DAY curiosity alone would cause me to raise an Eyebrow.
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
I totally agree.
I love it when they personally attack and throw insults, this shows they have lost control of their logic and resorted to emotion.
We are not alone, there are millions and millions that feel like we do. Many will not speak out due to fear. Everyone work I work with has changed there tune since i have passed out free DVDs of "911 in plane site".
Most say they didnt know about the 3rd building falling. Most say, I didnt know that stuff. 100% of them tell me they know we are being lied to.
Its all hindsight now. They made there billions.
I love it when they personally attack and throw insults, this shows they have lost control of their logic and resorted to emotion.
We are not alone, there are millions and millions that feel like we do. Many will not speak out due to fear. Everyone work I work with has changed there tune since i have passed out free DVDs of "911 in plane site".
Most say they didnt know about the 3rd building falling. Most say, I didnt know that stuff. 100% of them tell me they know we are being lied to.
Its all hindsight now. They made there billions.
jarhead
Well-known member
Kristofer68SS said:
There are a handful of guys on this board with superiority complexes that usuall go off on this stuff. The majority of the people I work with and know think the same way we do or don't care enough to know anything about it. This stuff is becoming more mainstream, not because it's crazy, but because people are sick of being misled. There are just too many holes in so many aspects of 9/11 to ignore.
Jayhawkk
Legend
I'm not an expert but I do have experience in blowing things up and wile i've never blown anything up at this level I know what's involved in in smaller buildings and bridges etc and that involves a ton of things going the rightway.
None of us can dispute there was a plane that went into this building. Just this fact alone would throw off the extreme amount of math and precisely placed explosives needed to drop a building like this.
1. You couldn't predict where this plane would hit.
2. You couldn't predict the force the place would cause
3. You couldn't predict the heat the place would cause
Adding all those variables to the mix you have to really stretch it to think that explosive were set to drop the building to itself. Now I won't say one way or another whether the gov't had some sort of involvement. But I know how the gov't works and something this large would take a whole lot of people knowing. I'm also not going to call anyone names for believing one way or another.
I just don't think those buildings were dropped by explosives prerigged.
None of us can dispute there was a plane that went into this building. Just this fact alone would throw off the extreme amount of math and precisely placed explosives needed to drop a building like this.
1. You couldn't predict where this plane would hit.
2. You couldn't predict the force the place would cause
3. You couldn't predict the heat the place would cause
Adding all those variables to the mix you have to really stretch it to think that explosive were set to drop the building to itself. Now I won't say one way or another whether the gov't had some sort of involvement. But I know how the gov't works and something this large would take a whole lot of people knowing. I'm also not going to call anyone names for believing one way or another.
I just don't think those buildings were dropped by explosives prerigged.
jmh80
Well-known member
So - the theory goes that the WTC's were pre-rigged with explosives?
Then detonated after the planes hit?
How, in God's name, could ANYONE keep that under wraps???
I mean - hell. In this day and age, people leak damn near everything before it officially is announced.
I'd imagine you'd have to put the explosives over quite a bit of the WTC.
That's a DAMN lot of big-mouthed New Yorkers to keep quiet until now.
Color me skeptical at best.
I think Jay hit the nail on the head.
Then detonated after the planes hit?
How, in God's name, could ANYONE keep that under wraps???
I mean - hell. In this day and age, people leak damn near everything before it officially is announced.
I'd imagine you'd have to put the explosives over quite a bit of the WTC.
That's a DAMN lot of big-mouthed New Yorkers to keep quiet until now.
Color me skeptical at best.
I think Jay hit the nail on the head.
jarhead
Well-known member
Jayhawkk said:
All you say is true, but what makes me question things are the fact that buildings have been hit by planes and burned( and burned much, much longer) before with no collapse. The speed of the collapse in no way backs up the pancake theory(there are studies by smarter people than myself that explain this.) In the days prior to the attacks, the buildings were shut down. Firefighters on the scene reported explosions. People on the ground level were hurt by explosions, and have scars to prove that there were explosions. ( which also blew out the windows before collapse.) Buildings that have collapsed for one reason or another, don't come straight down on themselves. Actually, I think I'm just restating everything that's been said( over and over I know), but you get the idea. I tried first to think of how the official story could happen, and then the opposite. For me, in my opinion, the official story was the weakest when you factor in history and the design of the buildings. If one tower had collapsed, maybe I could believe things just happened in the right way to bring it down. But three times in one day(with one not even being hit by a plane) is just quite a stretch and too much of a coincidence for me. I think everyone on this board has there own feelings about this stuff and each side is just as passionate as the other. I don't think any of us are changing each others minds, but god would I love to fully believe my governbment again.
jarhead
Well-known member
jmh80 said:
There are many reports and it is widely reported that the buildings were shut down in the days before the attacks. Also the person in charge of the security for the towers is a relative of bush. They don't have to keep it under wraps, just shout conspiracy and anti patriotism. The government is more than willing to do this. I will again bring up Operaton Northwoods. Read that, and then decide whether or not they are capable or willing to do these things.
jarhead
Well-known member
Jayhawkk said:
You bring up a good point. I am able to admit that anything I believe to be true is not fact. As far as the towers fall, other than exactly duplicating the event, we don't know that 100% it holds up in the real world. We have history and all that other stuff, but we are still just interpereting what we believe to be facts or evidence.
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
CHAPS said:
Sometimes even when you don't have physical proof of all the facts you can make logical deductions from specific peoples reactions to a given event. When there is nothing to cover -up you can generally expect full disclosure in order to certify the facts of innocence and non-culpability. Some children will act with extreme denial to being accused, even at a young age they know that they still have a chance to "get over" if you can't prove it Most parents can tell when their children are lying and this is the only proof they need.
The steel was certified by Underwriter Laboratories(UL) to be able to withstand the heat from a jet fuel or other fire for days (WTC burned for less than one hour) as well as having the tortional strength to sway with hurricane winds for at least 150 years. The insurance company that paid Silverstien(WTC owner) on his claim would not just hand over a check when they could offset the claim with a "faulty building material" counter suit against UL and the steel manufactures. They did not. When an engineer from UL contacted his NYC boss with concerns over the possibilty of such a counter suit, which would crush the billion dollar reputation of UL, he was ignored and fired. The very steel in question was quarenteened and sent over seas for disposal as scrap metal. It was never inspected, even though its physical failure is the lynch pin in the whole "Pancake" theory of collapse.
Jayhawkk
Legend
That's a lot of 'in the know' info. Considering i've had plenty of guarenteed items break befor they were supposed to. Even now they are rebuilding pipelines that were certified to be good to go in alaska. The levey in LA was certified safe and then certified in poor condition then certified safe etc.
People like to pull quotes and information out their bags and have no problem seeing these as 100% true but then they refuse to accept antyhing else that would prove wrong.
here's my take on this whole thing and the people behind it.
people looking for an answer are open minded and willing to weigh evidence. Those set to prove their side, whether it be for or against the gov't refuse to take off their blinders. They only see information that agrees with them. These are the same people who attack anything that they don't believe in themselves.
So, lets say for this arguement that the gov't did set this up and you were right. What changes in your mind? You are still living in a country where you believe the gov't will do this. The only change would be that you could say you were right. This is what I do know...
If I knew, without a doubt the gov't did this then you would bet your ass that my family would be moving north of the border for starts.
People like to pull quotes and information out their bags and have no problem seeing these as 100% true but then they refuse to accept antyhing else that would prove wrong.
here's my take on this whole thing and the people behind it.
people looking for an answer are open minded and willing to weigh evidence. Those set to prove their side, whether it be for or against the gov't refuse to take off their blinders. They only see information that agrees with them. These are the same people who attack anything that they don't believe in themselves.
So, lets say for this arguement that the gov't did set this up and you were right. What changes in your mind? You are still living in a country where you believe the gov't will do this. The only change would be that you could say you were right. This is what I do know...
If I knew, without a doubt the gov't did this then you would bet your ass that my family would be moving north of the border for starts.
The Experiment
Board Supporter
A 9/11 prerigged attack would be too large of an operation for nobody to talk about it. Even if it were punishable by death, someone would leak it out. Guaranteed. Everything else illegal that Bush has done has leaked out like the secret CIA prisons.
This is the main reason why I am still not convinced.
9/11 happened because of a massive intelligence failure. In the 1990s, the Bush and Clinton administrations neutered the CIA for intelligence gathering on terrorist cells so they could put in oil pipelines in the Caucasus.
There has been allegations that it was not solely an al-Qaeda operation but several other organizations also. Could one of those be a CIA based group? Unlikely. This attack took years in the making. I highly doubt Bill Clinton sent in CIA agents to instigate 9/11.
I do not believe we should be spoonfed information by the government either. The last time that happened was Iraq and well, that situation speaks for itself.
This is the main reason why I am still not convinced.
9/11 happened because of a massive intelligence failure. In the 1990s, the Bush and Clinton administrations neutered the CIA for intelligence gathering on terrorist cells so they could put in oil pipelines in the Caucasus.
There has been allegations that it was not solely an al-Qaeda operation but several other organizations also. Could one of those be a CIA based group? Unlikely. This attack took years in the making. I highly doubt Bill Clinton sent in CIA agents to instigate 9/11.
I do not believe we should be spoonfed information by the government either. The last time that happened was Iraq and well, that situation speaks for itself.
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
Jayhawkk said:
well, grew up in the 70's and mistrust of the government was all the rage, so this is just status quo for me. The anniversery of 9/11 has rekindled a fire. I was in Manhattan on that day and experienced things that I tried to forget, just so I could put my head down and "go to work and shop" just like GWB told us to do.
Then I just got curious as to why we would have to endure such a tragedy. The internet was an excellent research tool. Despite all the conspiracy sites, there are simple historical and government sites that confirm certain facts. The thing that stands out the most is that this level of deception and manipulation has been going on for over 100 years, I am a huge believer in the Declaration of the Independence and what it and the US constitution reserve for the citizens of this country.
So, whenever I hear or read any blind allegence to any leadership I like to establish that there is an alternative school of thought.
Once you can establish that a source is invalid because of duplicity then you can no longer trust that source for validity.
Ps. When something that is guarenteed to work doesnt perform as advertized, don't you call the manufacture, to bring it to their attention and see what they will do about it!
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
Bush's brother was on the security of the WTC.
Invalid Link Removed
And yes there have been records of "maintenance" work being done right before 911...
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
deduce as you wish.
Invalid Link Removed
Buildings do not fall in the manner they did in 911, not without explosives. I know its hard to comprehend, but its thermal energy we are talking about. Not kerosene and potential energy.
The pancake explanation is a joke. The kerosene theory is a joke. The official story is a joke.
My goal for a long time was to pass this information on. And i have. Hopefully it will should show this november.
Invalid Link Removed
And yes there have been records of "maintenance" work being done right before 911...
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
deduce as you wish.
Invalid Link Removed
Buildings do not fall in the manner they did in 911, not without explosives. I know its hard to comprehend, but its thermal energy we are talking about. Not kerosene and potential energy.
The pancake explanation is a joke. The kerosene theory is a joke. The official story is a joke.
My goal for a long time was to pass this information on. And i have. Hopefully it will should show this november.
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
Jayhawkk said:
Yeah, I think the only thing we can hope to accomplish is to establish that the American people will atleast "question" the goverments role in 9/11.
The "controlled demolishion" theory is the hardest one to accept.
I think the "911 mysteries video" shows the physical prossability exists.
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
Kristofer68SS said:
Reminds me of the old Public Enemy song "911 is a joke"
maybe Flavo Flav was prediciting the future?
Jayhawkk
Legend
Besides what you can google or read what others have written. YOU tell me why the building part is what it is. You explain it to me with your personal experience with explosives cause I will be glad to have a one on one with you in that dept. I have personal experience and education in this area.
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
Jayhawkk said:
So your not going to validate anyones analysis of WTC 1,2 and 7? But we can have a one on one. I guarantee alot of these folks will bury you in eductation. Even if i decided to have a one on one. Trust me, I would reference ALOT. No doubt you would too. I never claimed to be a thermal engineer or a pyrotechnic. I never through my weight of said knowledge around. The only thing I have ever stated is that i have some physics and math and that kerosene and potential energy wouldnt destroy 3 buildings into nice little piles all in the same day.
I can do simple physics that prove buildings will not fall at free fall speed unless prepared to. Can you show me otherwise, outside of the 911 oddities?
Also, in this particular debate. I have no personal data taken. So, I have no choice but to extrapolate and summarize others work.
I assume you have personal data to argue with? Like samples of the steel taken from the sight, measurements of the concrete particulars, distance that debris flew AWAY from the buildings, the thermal temperatures still burning in the aftermath, ad nausem.
What exactly kind of one on one shall we have. Your data or mine?
I will reference all day long. Thats the only way we can debate this subject.
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
badbart said:
thanks for clearing that up.
Jayhawkk
Legend
The fact you're calling other people out using information you can't even comprehend is ignorant at best and just being an ******* at worst. I'm saying I have hands on experience of demolitions and it's a finely tuned machine. Everything has to be taken into consideration and throwing a airplane into the mix hasn't really been tested to make adjustments to tables and graphs, just yet.
Keep believing what you believe but don't tell people it's simple thermodymanics etc when you don't know how to do anything but make assumptions and call them facts.
Other people can bury me, true. But you can't and won't except to pull what you assume to be facts. If someone knows more than you do and places information at your feet as fact then you have no way to prove or disprove until you can understand them for yourself. You can take a 10 year old and tell them black people are inferior and bleed black blood and they will assume it's fact. You're the type of people that spread these myths about steroids and other misinformation cause someone made a website making claims.
Keep believing what you believe but don't tell people it's simple thermodymanics etc when you don't know how to do anything but make assumptions and call them facts.
Other people can bury me, true. But you can't and won't except to pull what you assume to be facts. If someone knows more than you do and places information at your feet as fact then you have no way to prove or disprove until you can understand them for yourself. You can take a 10 year old and tell them black people are inferior and bleed black blood and they will assume it's fact. You're the type of people that spread these myths about steroids and other misinformation cause someone made a website making claims.
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
Ok then. You have resorted to name calling. Nice. Thanks for that. I see we have maintained being adults.
Then teach me Mr. Miaugi. Teach me your wisdom. Show me your math on why the towers fell. ALL 3. ESPECIALLY WTC 7!!Since you have none, you are no better than me. Yet you cast the first stone. lol.
Show me the wreckage of a 757 at the Pentagon. Show Me.
Show me how ANY steel building comparable to that of the WTC towers that has fallen due to fire. SHOW ME.
These are not oddities. NOT ALL 3!. Come on man.
I would love to see your detailed analysis of the events that unfolded on 911. I will be patiently waiting for this.
As far as your racist comment goes, yes young minds are impressionable. But this is not the case here. We are adults.
If you want disinformation buddy, look at the 911 Commission Report, Fema Report and the Popular Mechanics analysis. There is disinformation. Not, what i am passing on.
Then teach me Mr. Miaugi. Teach me your wisdom. Show me your math on why the towers fell. ALL 3. ESPECIALLY WTC 7!!Since you have none, you are no better than me. Yet you cast the first stone. lol.
Show me the wreckage of a 757 at the Pentagon. Show Me.
Show me how ANY steel building comparable to that of the WTC towers that has fallen due to fire. SHOW ME.
These are not oddities. NOT ALL 3!. Come on man.
I would love to see your detailed analysis of the events that unfolded on 911. I will be patiently waiting for this.
As far as your racist comment goes, yes young minds are impressionable. But this is not the case here. We are adults.
If you want disinformation buddy, look at the 911 Commission Report, Fema Report and the Popular Mechanics analysis. There is disinformation. Not, what i am passing on.
Jayhawkk
Legend
There is just as much information on the web debunking these but you chose not to believe. that's your choice. I can tell you 3 things...
1. Prerigging buildings to fall in on themselves is a highly mathmatical science. One you just can't do and add a plane.
2. I've seen bridges not fall correctly because of badly placed charge
3. I've seen houses not fall right that were built mostly out of wood because of a forumula being calculated wrong. (2 story)
Adults and kids does not make a difference when you're talking about breeding ignorance by feeding what is considered to be the truth to those who have no understanding of the way things work. It's funny you have Global warming lead by scientists and with major followings calling both sides wrong.
Your problem is only accepting information that follows your belief and automatically casting aside any that doesn't. When a person is at this level then there's no need to work extra hard trying to show them when they will not change.
Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed
Hell they have answers to your questions specifically. Believe it or not. I couldn't care less.
Kristofer68SS
Well-known member
I will look at your reference. Thanks for not calling me names this time.
There is always two sides to the same story. Lets see what these anaylsis have to offer me.
Peace.
There is always two sides to the same story. Lets see what these anaylsis have to offer me.
Peace.
Jayhawkk
Legend
I don't have an answer, like i said before. If someone were to come to me and say they think that the gov't had something to do with 911 I would tend to believe much more than using prerigged building as their reasoning. And as for the plane not being there at the pentagon. I've blown up things that just wee not there afterwards. I'm talking huge iron structures. And I know there were parts left because I live about 45 minutes north of there and have several friends that work Pentagon police who have pictures of several large parts.
Big Matt
All The Whey Nutrition
Everyone knows that 9-11 was totally rigged!
It goes right along with.....Woodrow Wilson plotting the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand.......
......Truman conspiring with the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor........
....oh by the way........the moon landing was fake and the holocaust never happened either!
Invalid Link Removed
(Hopefully everyone knows I'm being sarcastic!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's some food for thought:
Conspiracy's based on this photo......idea's anyone?
Invalid Link Removed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright! Alright! Bush is behind everything! Now please stop!
Invalid Link Removed
It goes right along with.....Woodrow Wilson plotting the assasination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand.......
......Truman conspiring with the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor........
....oh by the way........the moon landing was fake and the holocaust never happened either!
Invalid Link Removed
(Hopefully everyone knows I'm being sarcastic!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's some food for thought:
Conspiracy's based on this photo......idea's anyone?
Invalid Link Removed
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Alright! Alright! Bush is behind everything! Now please stop!
Invalid Link Removed
Big Matt
All The Whey Nutrition
anabolicrhino said:
1. No one lied to anybody.
2. Listening in on our enemies doesn't make sense to you? I'd be in a panic if we WEREN'T tapping wires!
3. The president doesn't have executive powers? What a lame job!
(p.s. - I'm not a Bush fan, angry at him for many things, I just hate the unfounded bashing.)
anabolicrhino
Well-known member
Well I guess that clears that up... I guess I'll just go back to jerk....badbart said:
Hey, wait a minute ...can one government organization be complict with another government's conspiracy? Well yea, I guess if it really is a conspiracy, that would probably be the case. I mean if the conspirators can't control the National Standard Labs, then whats the point of even having a conspiracy?
I think the controlled demolition theory is a long shot at best....
but its got be more probable than the pancake theory.
If its highly unlikley to execute a perfect collapse given the known facts, then what are the chance of a perfect collapse from an airplane crash and fire? times 2???
If I were handicapping I'd go--- pancake theory 2%
---controlled demolition 18%
I have to confess I think this whole conspiracy works in my favor, I would gladly trade a feww measely freedoms for cheap gas and an uninterrupted chain of world command. I wasn't even using those freedoms anyhow!
jarhead
Well-known member
"
There was good info in your post and links Jayhawk. At least they were different viewpoints than " Why does the sunrise? It just does."
I believe part of it is faulty , specifically the aspect involving the jet fuel. The fuel would have burned quickly off. After that, it's like any other building fire. It would have started fires, but not increased the temperature. If weakening the steel was enough for a collapse, then why have there not been other collapses from fires in steel buildings that have burned hotter and longer?
Also there are audio recordings of firefighters on the scene saying that there are "two isolated pockets of fire." Not widely spread fires. Another point is the statement that the impact of the planes severely damaged the support columns. Engineers involved in the design of the building have said that the actual impact would not have severely damaged the integrity of the building, especialy the inner support columns. The buildings were unique in their design, and were not only designed to withstand an impact from a plane, but hurricane force winds as well. To me they did not say anything that would change my mind on the question they were trying to answer.
There was good info in your post and links Jayhawk. At least they were different viewpoints than " Why does the sunrise? It just does."
I believe part of it is faulty , specifically the aspect involving the jet fuel. The fuel would have burned quickly off. After that, it's like any other building fire. It would have started fires, but not increased the temperature. If weakening the steel was enough for a collapse, then why have there not been other collapses from fires in steel buildings that have burned hotter and longer?
Also there are audio recordings of firefighters on the scene saying that there are "two isolated pockets of fire." Not widely spread fires. Another point is the statement that the impact of the planes severely damaged the support columns. Engineers involved in the design of the building have said that the actual impact would not have severely damaged the integrity of the building, especialy the inner support columns. The buildings were unique in their design, and were not only designed to withstand an impact from a plane, but hurricane force winds as well. To me they did not say anything that would change my mind on the question they were trying to answer.
badbart
Registered User
jarhead said:
Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."
"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.
But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.
"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."
Invalid Link Removed
BioHazzard
Banned
LMFAO! Haven't you heard? They think that Popular Mechanics article is part of the conspiracy, authored by someone related to Homeland Security!!! 
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hell, since Bush and Cheney must have once said, 1+1=2, I bet you, the conspiracy nuts would reject 1+1=2 too. :lol: :lol:
Boys and girls. Today's lesson is : You can't reason facts with people who are only out looking for theories to support their conspiracy theory. :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hell, since Bush and Cheney must have once said, 1+1=2, I bet you, the conspiracy nuts would reject 1+1=2 too. :lol: :lol:
Boys and girls. Today's lesson is : You can't reason facts with people who are only out looking for theories to support their conspiracy theory. :lol:
jarhead
Well-known member
badbart said:
That is basically a restatement of what was said. It didn't answer any questions I brought up ,or explain why no building has ever collapsed from fires that have burned longer and hotter if what they say is true,or the eyewitness accounts of firefighters calling for just 2 water lines two put out 2 "isolated pockets of fire. It was also written by the cousin of the director of homeland security.
Also all the talk of temperatures is pointless. Sure steel loses half its strength when heated to 1100 degrees- but here's the kick- IN A CONTROLLED SETTING. There is no way to tell( and it's pretty farfetched IMO) that the fires were so evenly dispersed around the steel columns, at just the right temperature, for just the right amount of time, to weaken them all to half strength. One of the towers fell only 19 minutes after impact. And to believe that the exact conditions were met in 3 different buildings to bring them down ion the exact same manner(which would require the same dispersion pattern of the jet fuel in both buildings and the third-well that wasn't hit by a plane, yet still collapsed) to me that is way to farfetched.
jarhead
Well-known member
BioHazzard said:LMFAO! Haven't you heard? They think that Popular Mechanics article is part of the conspiracy, authored by someone related to Homeland Security!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Hell, since Bush and Cheney must have once said, 1+1=2, I bet you, the conspiracy nuts would reject 1+1=2 too. :lol: :lol:
Boys and girls. Today's lesson is : You can't reason facts with people who are only out looking for theories to support their conspiracy theory. :lol:
And if we link something by alex jones, you say he has his own agenda. You need some new material.