Lol that was just due to improper hydration/electrolytesNo idea if he can adapt so fast. Maybe doing a test run prior... I remember vividly how I was twisting myself like an earthworm while cramping up...
Lol that was just due to improper hydration/electrolytesNo idea if he can adapt so fast. Maybe doing a test run prior... I remember vividly how I was twisting myself like an earthworm while cramping up...
Not sure about that with lots using gels and such now. I did know a guy that was an ultramarathoner and would hallucinate and piss/**** himself. He would carry footlong subs in his water bottle pouches he said it was about having energy sources . Crazy ****. Running long distances is really unhealthy actually. People get a huge high from it and feel accomplished....hence the “sport”I heard that when running a marathon, they get into ketosis by mile 10 -or something (?) . Some getting hallucinations when fat burning starts. No source to cite here, just heard about it.
Umm, that and one literally is competing against other people and onesself, hence the "sport".Not sure about that with lots using gels and such now. I did know a guy that was an ultramarathoner and would hallucinate and piss/**** himself. He would carry footlong subs in his water bottle pouches he said it was about having energy sources . Crazy ****. Running long distances is really unhealthy actually. People get a huge high from it and feel accomplished....hence the “sport”
Look who showed up!Umm, that and one literally is competing against other people and onesself, hence the "sport".
But, you are hearing this from an ultramarathoner (who isn't afraid of the squat rack)
We have to ask Spurfy. He said that any hard activity while fasting is detrimental. I guess, your body will use amino acids (protein) from your upper body to repair and fuel your legs while running.Lol imagine how much fat I would burn running in a fasted state....? Or would that lead to fat retention because my body believes a famine is coming?
You could run while in ketosis. Instead of using water with dextrose -you would drink plain olive oil and chew on bacon while running.No bueno
Just keep your pace slow enough to avoid going anaerobic-going back to HGP's initial musings on running and keto. I've never gone appreciably Keto in a marathon (Ultras are a different story) because I run them too fast.Yeah, I think I can tough it out. And, my goal is to only eat enough carbs to fuel performance...to avoid overflowing glycogen stores
Taking it through the anus may hit you harderI was thinking about snorting a line of melted margarine preworkout
Yes, I believe this method is called "greasing the groove." Thanks for reminding me.Taking it through the anus may hit you harder
I'm just wondering if the fasted runs could be safely pushed into an anaerobic state if the subject were to carb load the night before...? Then fast after the run, thus depleting glycogen further, and reaping the benefits of the intermittent fast.Just keep your pace slow enough to avoid going anaerobic-going back to HGP's initial musings on running and keto. I've never gone appreciably Keto in a marathon (Ultras are a different story) because I run them too fast.
Take it from the midget
If he is in ketosis, this isn't exactly true. I don't think he would burn much protein for energy in that case. The fact is that the body would be geared toward burning fat, so in order to burn protein for atp it would need to break down the muscle and either burn it very very inefficiently (which means not much would get burned) or it would have to convert it to fat for ATP use - which would be equally as inefficient. Unless he is sub 10% bodyfat, going through all that makes little sense. Most of the amino acid burn wouldn't be for energy, it would be for metabolic processes; and EAA's would likely alleviate this...although the truth lies somewhere in between "burn lots of muscle" and "Just need a few EAA's". You may need to ingest a good amount of EAAs and this could maybe knock you out of the fasting state.He would burn lots of fat, and lots of muscle to go along with it.
Yeah, I think I can tough it out. And, my goal is to only eat enough carbs to fuel performance...to avoid overflowing glycogen stores
If your muscles have glycogen in them, and you are metabolically healthy, you will burn the glycogen first and see an increase in performance. The problem is, in a fasted or keto state, metabolically healthy isn't exactly a proper expectation. In these states your body is geared toward lipid conversion to ATP and this can hinder carb to ATP conversion.I'm just wondering if the fasted runs could be safely pushed into an anaerobic state if the subject were to carb load the night before...? Then fast after the run, thus depleting glycogen further, and reaping the benefits of the intermittent fast.
Good to know! What about a little stevia? Or xylitol for that matterStay away from sucralose while water fasting, as that will take you out of the fasted state. Sucralose spikes insulin.
Stevia is supposed to be fasting safe, but some people do report lower ketone levels after using; same with erythritol. Xylitol should be safe. However, better would be green tea and black coffee with nothing added.Good to know! What about a little stevia? Or xylitol for that matter
I could be wrong here but I am pretty sure this was disproven. Sucralose by itself does not increase insulin spikes, however if taken with sugar or other carbohydrate it can increase the size of the insulin spike, but needs the digestible carbs alongside of that for that. It has been a good 2 years or more since i read that so other studies may have taken place since.Stay away from sucralose while water fasting, as that will take you out of the fasted state. Sucralose spikes insulin.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/261179.phpI could be wrong here but I am pretty sure this was disproven. Sucralose by itself does not increase insulin spikes, however if taken with sugar or other carbohydrate it can increase the size of the insulin spike, but needs the digestible carbs alongside of that for that. It has been a good 2 years or more since i read that so other studies may have taken place since.
Yes exactly, that says exactly what I just said... It increases the insulin response when taken with other carbohydrates. It does not release insulin on it's own, and does not raise blood sugar. You specifically said not to use it while fasting because it would break the fast, and cause an insulin spike. However it can not do that. It can increase the insulin spike of the surrounding meal, but when fasting there is no surrounding meal for it to use t spike insulin levels.
Thanks for the correction! Definitely misread. Good to know sucralose may not raise insulin by itself since it is in most pre workouts.Yes exactly, that says exactly what I just said... It increases the insulin response when taken with other carbohydrates. It does not release insulin on it's own, and does not raise blood sugar. You specifically said not to use it while fasting because it would break the fast, and cause an insulin spike. However it can not do that. It can increase the insulin spike of the surrounding meal, but when fasting there is no surrounding meal for it to use t spike insulin levels.
No problem at all. I had to go read it anyway to make sure. We are learning things so quickly now that what we "knew" to be true even a year or two ago could easily be in question or heavily contended against by many in the scientific community. Plus so many things that are so similar, and easily bleed into one another that you have to keep an eye on specificity to make sure you are still dealing with a situation that the scenario applies to or not.Thanks for the correction! Definitely misread. Good to know sucralose may not raise insulin by itself since it is in most pre workouts.
I was going to mention that there are some other issues besides the blood sugar or insulin that could cause some other issues but decided to try to keep it short.I still wouldn't consume sucralose. Recent study data demonstrate that it is indeed metabolized into two compounds that are both fat soluble and have unknown effects in humans. The target organs/tissues for these effects would likely be: liver, kidneys, brain, and adipose tissue.
Research* has already demonstrated that these metabolites accumulate in adipose tissue, at least in rats, which is a hallmark of toxic sequestration.
No thanks, I'll pass.
*https://tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15287394.2018.1502560
Ok, sorry to put you off. Ironically, I would still say to avoid intense exercise - just for other reasons. Your logic could just as easily be applied to fasting itself - since living and breathing requires amino acids, where do they come from when you're fasting? Muscles. Fasting = muscle loss.Yes it is.
I said nothing about burning protein for energy -- this was your incorrect assumption that I was referring to gluconeogenic fuel.
In this context he's referring to running during a prolonged fast. Running damages muscles* which would require amino acids to repair. Where are these amino acids going to come from if he's eating nothing? Other muscles. Is this transfer of amino acids 100% efficient? No.
Result? Net loss of muscle.
I was being a bit hyperbolic when I said "lots", but my point remains the same.
Bottom line: Brisk walking is the only exercise which should be considered acceptable during any prolonged fasting. I've repeated this ad nauseum and I'm not going to repeat myself again.
* This is not even considering the microtrauma to bones from running, which would also require calcium and phosphorous from other bones to repair.
I've seen those studies, but never really thought it through. Based on that, it looks like sucrolose doesn't cause insulin release, rather it inhibits insulin function - which is not how I've heard people talk about it before. So, you take it with sugar and the sugar hits your blood stream, you release insuline, but the sucrolose inhibits it - so the insulin doesn't work to lower blood sugar, and your body has to release more to get the job done. This makes sucrolose not so bad in a fasted situation (at least on those terms) - but you may want to think before you wash a piece of cake or a candy bar down with diet soda.Yes exactly, that says exactly what I just said... It increases the insulin response when taken with other carbohydrates. It does not release insulin on it's own, and does not raise blood sugar. You specifically said not to use it while fasting because it would break the fast, and cause an insulin spike. However it can not do that. It can increase the insulin spike of the surrounding meal, but when fasting there is no surrounding meal for it to use t spike insulin levels.
I think you are missing the point though, you need amino acids just for living, as you point out and I agree with above. I also agree that these needs are reduced during fasting, for a number of reasons. Fjnally, autophagy likely plays a roll,1. Amino acids are only *required* for hormone, neurotransmitter, DNA, and protein synthesis.
2. Amino acids needed during a prolonged fasted state, where protein synthesis is very low and turnover of hormones and neurotransmitters are greatly reduced, are very low.
3. Autophagy can provide amino acids for protein synthesis -- proteins in damaged and diseased tissues and cells are broken down into amino acids
4. Adipose tissue contains BCAAs* which are released into circulation
It could be organs, which would be worse, right?We know that there is some N excretion during fasting, but it has not been demonstrated that this loss is exclusively from skeletal muscle.
Well, you have speculated that running while fasted will cause lots of muscle loss, and then further speculated that walking is acceptable while fasting, and then further speculated that walking is the ONLY acceptable form of exercise while fasted.I refuse to engage in any further speculation on this. If a person doing a prolonged fast wants to run, have at it, but you'll never hear me condone this.
I am going to leave the lactate threshold thing alone, just because it will open up a can of worms that will get us in the mud...until the moment that lactate threshold is crossed.
It's based on my over 10 years of fasting experience, my understanding of fasting physiology, as well as supervising the fasts of others. Could I be wrong? Certainly.
Still, in my experience the people who fail almost inevitably fail for one of two reasons:
1. They allow themselves to fantasize about food
2.They engage in vigorous exercise
* http://www.jbc.org/content/285/15/11348.full
I’m getting into this fasting thing but do have a question on ‘vigerous exetcise’ and whether wanking counts? I’m strong willed enough to do most things but 7 days without releasing the ole steam valve is asking for trouble......1. Amino acids are only *required* for hormone, neurotransmitter, DNA, and protein synthesis.
2. Amino acids needed during a prolonged fasted state, where protein synthesis is very low and turnover of hormones and neurotransmitters are greatly reduced, are very low.
3. Autophagy can provide amino acids for protein synthesis -- proteins in damaged and diseased tissues and cells are broken down into amino acids
4. Adipose tissue contains BCAAs* which are released into circulation
We know that there is some N excretion during fasting, but it has not been demonstrated that this loss is exclusively from skeletal muscle.
I refuse to engage in any further speculation on this. If a person doing a prolonged fast wants to run, have at it, but you'll never hear me condone this.
...until the moment that lactate threshold is crossed.
It's based on my over 10 years of fasting experience, my understanding of fasting physiology, as well as supervising the fasts of others. Could I be wrong? Certainly.
Still, in my experience the people who fail almost inevitably fail for one of two reasons:
1. They allow themselves to fantasize about food
2.They engage in vigorous exercise
* http://www.jbc.org/content/285/15/11348.full
I have to do it everyday, I am taking a new supplement that says "Take Two Every Morning Upon Wanking"I’m getting into this fasting thing but do have a question on ‘vigerous exetcise’ and whether wanking counts? I’m strong willed enough to do most things but 7 days without releasing the ole steam valve is asking for trouble......
Unless your version is a lot more dramatic and physical than mine I’m gonna say you’re fine haha.I’m getting into this fasting thing but do have a question on ‘vigerous exetcise’ and whether wanking counts? I’m strong willed enough to do most things but 7 days without releasing the ole steam valve is asking for trouble......
I'm not a Dr. but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express lastnight, and if you want to lose serious weight. You should wank it twice a day along with a 7 day fast.I’m getting into this fasting thing but do have a question on ‘vigerous exetcise’ and whether wanking counts? I’m strong willed enough to do most things but 7 days without releasing the ole steam valve is asking for trouble......
For best fat burn -and for balanced arm muscle gains, he should use only the index fingers of both hands, use of thumbs is forbidden. Expert wankers use both pinky fingers.I'm not a Dr. but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express lastnight, and if you want to lose serious weight. You should wank it twice a day along with a 7 day fast.
Be careful of hand calluses as I've heard they can cause rips on the skin, and stay away from self prostate stimulation as I've also heard it can cause unwelcome pumps and cramping.I’m getting into this fasting thing but do have a question on ‘vigerous exetcise’ and whether wanking counts? I’m strong willed enough to do most things but 7 days without releasing the ole steam valve is asking for trouble......
It’s hard enough pinning glutes, not sure I’m flexible enough for the ole pokey bum wank....Be careful of hand calluses as I've heard they can cause rips on the skin, and stay away from self prostate stimulation as I've also heard it can cause unwelcome pumps and cramping.
ON AN ELEVATOR BETWEEN FLOORS?! ?It’s hard enough pinning glutes, not sure I’m flexible enough for the ole pokey bum wank....
It was the word vigorous that made me think it might be boardline, I’ve been known to get a sweat on for sure, especially if it’s a danger wank (on a train or elevator between floors etc).....
Um...get someone else to do it for you. Just tell them you would, but it's for the GAINZ!I’m getting into this fasting thing but do have a question on ‘vigerous exetcise’ and whether wanking counts? I’m strong willed enough to do most things but 7 days without releasing the ole steam valve is asking for trouble......
Maybe it’s the Asperger’s, but I do not find masturbartion the least bit enjoyable. Vanilla sex? Dirty sex? Filthy sex? Absolutely.
My thinking is: Why satisfy a sexual urge all alone when I can control it, let it build, and then use the same urge as fuel to apply myself to get it satisfied by an attractive woman?
Masturbation is boring. And watching porn where a guy is banging a girl is about the most beta male thing you can do.
Thing is, when you married for 28 years, you could "built up" the urge. Only the: "getting satisfied by a attractive women" later, would be hard to do, unless :I didn’t expect to get any likes with that one...
Being worried about someone thinking you are beta is the most beta thing you can do.*cancels pornhub premium account*
You know, you raise a lot of good points. But you are supposed to identify as a b1tch and none of this would be a problem. lolGood point.
I’m sad that I don’t get to see my son every day, but I’m very happy that I’m no longer married and never ever will be again. Marriage just doesn’t suit me — I’m too stubborn, too argumentative, and too independent, and seeing a woman cry (especially over some dumb sh*t) does not engender the least bit of compassion from me unless she’s grieving a death, which really seems to make them furious.
“No princess, your cooked-up tears will not save you from losing this argument.”
No offense to married people. I’m genuinely envious of people who can make it work. I tried, I really did.
Lol. I don’t give a damn, just trying to be funny. I will judge someone that pays for porn tho lolBeing worried about someone thinking you are beta is the most beta thing you can do.
lol, don't worry bro. You do whatever the heck you want.
lol. I know...just trying to be funny too...I have a weird sense of humor. Or I am just not funny.Lol. I don’t give a damn, just trying to be funny. I will judge someone that pays for porn tho lol
14 years and going strong here. Of course I out kicked my coverage. My wife is way outta my league. She is a baddy with a fatty. So I don’t want to screw it up. I couldn’t do better the next go roundBeen married for 30 years and still In Love, I'm a lucky guy !!