(3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

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Force of Green said:
There's plenty of room for many supplement companies in this market... something tells me that all of the emails you've been getting saying, "why is your 11-oxo more money than 3-AD? What makes yours better?" started to piss you off when you really don't have an answer except, "11 oxo is 3AD, only more expensive."
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there IS no 3-ad. so why would i ever have to answer this question in the first place?

and in fact, china is pretty much putting a halt on the export of all steroid products now because of the 2008 Beijing Olympics and pressure from IOC. AX won't be able to import the stuff on a regular basis, even if they are able to get the FDA customs to let their current shipment in (which, given their history with the FDA is not likely)

i am going to own the whole adrenosterone market because my company manufactures it in the US

so bottom line is if anyone should be pissed off at anyone over adrenosterone it would be AX pissed at me, not the other way around

you seem like a smart guy that has been fed alot of misinformation for a long time.
 
ShadowJack said:
No - of course it isn't. I'm thinking it likely converts to 6-hydroxytest, no?
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In Vida, 6beta-hydroxytestosterone acetate has zero entry for androgenic activity and a listing of less than 5% as anabolic then testosterone

6alpha-hydroxyandrostenedione has an entry of zero for androgenic and no entry for anabolic. 6beta-hydroxyandrostenedione has the same

and just to clear up any residual doubt we had the University of Illinois Chicago school of medicine department of toxicology perform a hershberger assay on 6-oxo. the final report is in print and not on my computer but here is the email from the researcher after he completed it

(mind you, this uses castrates so there can be no interference by stimulation of endogenous testosterone - it only measures pure hormonal effects of the compound itself and its metabolites)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alex Lyubimov [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 12:27 PM
To: Patrick Arnold
Subject: Re: Hershberger assay


Patrick,

We have performed a necropsy last Friday. Study worked like magic. No androgenic or anabolic effect from 6-OXO was seen but the positive control produced an evident statistically significant effect.

We still do not have 1,500.00 Work Assignment signed by you. Please let me know if you can not locate it. We will issue another one in this case.

Regards,

Alex
 
PumpingIron said:
Now what is the reason for attacking me? I said that in a generality about everytime PA has brought up arguments, valid or not, and brought them to the not-so-educated consumer's attention.

It's good with any product, food, clothing, automobiles, whatever. I like you and mace, but you both jump to quickly on the defensive. Maybe if you take the time and just refute what PA has said and not only come out with: "well consumers seem to like this" than things would be resolved more easily and in a quicker fashion.

BigSmith came about things the right way. Saying we are having a complete study around this compound done and will post result for the world to see.

I have used MassFX, I have seen results as well. I am not bashing AX or MassFX in any way, shape or form. I just see questions geared toward the addition of consumer knowledge a good thing.

So basically, you sir are a fool. Way to sink to bb.com standards.
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had i known about the study, i would have also stated it...........
 
PumpingIron said:
I have used MassFX, I have seen results as well. I am not bashing AX or MassFX in any way, shape or form. I just see questions geared toward the addition of consumer knowledge a good thing.
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I don't disagree...........

But, PA goes about it completely wrong and I hesitate to think that he actually is trying to HELP the consumer. Maybe he is trying to get help them put more money in HIS pocket.......

He uses SMOKE AND MIRRORS to confuse the people and claims that he is a chemist, SO HE MUST BE CORRECT! That is why I take the defensive.......

Of ALL the companies out there.............he picks 2 of his BIGGEST competitors to "ATTACK". seems fishy to me.........

The END result may be a more informed consumer and THAT is great! But things cna be handled COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY!

I take no offense to your posts, PI! :thumbsup:
 
Patrick Arnold said:
its not a prohormone to androstenedione ...
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Of course it is Pat, 6-Oxo will be convert to Andro after ingestion, are you denying that? That makes 6-Oxo a Pro-Hormone or PH to the banned anabolic steroid known as androstenedione.

Sorry, I have never felt the need to point it out till now, but "blatant lying just can't be forgiven though" Pat, so fess up buddy.
 
PumpingIron said:
Now what is the reason for attacking me? ...
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Maybe you just can't handle reality very well? It was no attack though, so don't get so defensive. You can remain in denial and I won't threaten your position there, but you're still a fool. That's just an observation, not an attack, so your ego need not be injured.
 
Pat you are Da man!!!

DR.d No disrespect to you either ...I am forever greatful to all your help too..Pa just speaks his mind and I am similar thanks to both of you for helping me reach my fitness goals over the years
PA. albiet 1 ad .....dr.d Super-drol

Much respect to both!!

Lit bear
 
bigschmidt821 said:
i do mean well. all i am saying is that i witnessed this first hand cuz i oversaw the training and the diet. i did not say this will get you huge i said tell me how u feel. i have had these same guys tell me what stuff was bogus. and didnt feel a thing
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I ran an eight week cycle of Hyperdrol, Mass FX and Retain in February of this year. Half way through the cycle, when it was released, I switched to Hyperdrol 2. Over this time period, I leaned out, dropped by BF percentage 2 points (13 to 11), and saw huge increases in strength (bench went from 225 to 265). I have two other work out partners who took this same cycle but started later and exclusively used Hyperdrol. They all had similar results. One of the biggest positive effects in my opinion is the way that you feel on Hyperdrol 2. I literally felt 10 years younger, had a huge sex drive, and great intensity in the gym. I really looked forward to taking the doses. When I came off the stack, I really crashed hard for two weeks with some strength loses, lethargy, and a loss in sex drive. After the two weeks, I felt like I was back to normal.

There are some definite real world gains from Hyperdrol 2. Now, I am not sure if they are due to the AI benefits or the possibility that this compound converts to a steriod.

Now before you call me a shill (I only lurk here), I post on BB.com as onefstm, am currently on week 4 of a 600mg 11-Oxo cycle, and have done my share of AX bashing due to the delay of 3-ad.

Out of this stack, I feel that Hyperdrol 2 is the product that works! During the cycle, you are recommended to stop Mass FX for 2 weeks. Based on my own "feelings", I could not tell anything from Mass FX or Retain.

I have some camera phone pics of myself before, during, and at the end of the cycle. There are some definite improvements. I can post them here if anyone is interested.

PA really peaked my interest about Hyperdrol 2 on the BB forums. There are some real gains to this product. One of my work out partners who has done his share or real steriods said that this stuff feel a lot like the "juice" to him. The gains are similar to what I achieved on 11-Oxo plus I felt better.
 
DR.D said:
Maybe you just can't handle reality very well? It was no attack though, so don't get so defensive. You can remain in denial and I won't threaten your position there, but you're still a fool. That's just an observation, not an attack, so your ego need not be injured.
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wow, that really makes me rethink things about you.

Whatever PA might gain from this, questioning is good for the consumer.

you have some definite confidence issues...attacking people for having different views, not cool...

I didn't attack you but you insist on calling me a fool. get over it. BigSmith, you need to rethink your employment criteria and who you let talk for your company.

This is very very upsetting to me.
 
1. It's amazing how many non regulars show up all of a sudden for these threads - way to go non players / strong first posters.

2. I would go one step further than saying he is chasing his biggest competitors to he is "actively trying to discredit someone who is more helpful on any forum than he is" that's right ...the one and only Dr.D

3. It's old, boring .....move along there's nothing to see here

==============================================

In relation to the ALRI JW, I looked up 6-dehydromethyltestosterone and get this

Invalid Link Removed

which gives a bunch of synonyms. So does this mean it is a weak form of Dianabol as per that list? I do not claim to know much in this chemical / hormonal area so feel free to enlighten me....if you can.
 
PumpingIron said:
wow, that really makes me rethink things about you.

Whatever PA might gain from this, questioning is good for the consumer.

you have some definite confidence issues...attacking people for having different views, not cool...

I didn't attack you but you insist on calling me a fool. get over it. BigSmith, you need to rethink your employment criteria and who you let talk for your company.

This is very very upsetting to me.
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Please take an AI or SERM immediately. You definitely are high estro'ing it here. Maybe count to ten, breath calmly and think happy thoughts.
 
You know what with all this stuff?

You know the message I get?

F**K all these FU**ING legal supplements, do hardcore cycles and tons of peptides in post cycle therapy.

This is just too mucking fuch BS all around, and wading through the posts to get to the science, while interesting, is too time-consuming to get to know which product will or won't add 10% effectiveness to my PCT.

The cookies are on the dark side, for sure.
 
PumpingIron said:
wow, you're cool.

i hate e-fights. i won't get into one, especially with someone like you. please move along.
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:) was actually being funny in response to your overreaction to a post on a forum. Sorry you are too hurt and upset to see the funny side of it.

Now in relation to the comments, Invalid Link Removed, but as usual PA is doing his usual sh!t disturbing. It's a given that Invalid Link Removedwas a little harsh but he is truly on the right track. Please think for yourself and do not be fooled by this ex criminals tactics that he uses to persecute companies and more applicably. D has a good reason to react a little defensively as he is always being attacked by the likes of PA ( not absolutely scumy but just slimey none the less ).

Please read my pattern post and see it for what it is. Why don't you ask a bunch of customers whether it works not some competitor "chemist" who is trying to save our collapsing supplemental world.

Don't drink the H8rade.

<3 Neoborn <3
 
neoborn said:
In relation to the ALRI JW, I looked up 6-dehydromethyltestosterone and get this

Invalid Link Removed

which gives a bunch of synonyms. So does this mean it is a weak form of Dianabol as per that list? I do not claim to know much in this chemical / hormonal area so feel free to enlighten me....if you can.
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Neo, that link is to 1-dehydromethyltestosterone, which indeed is dianabol. I think the thought of JW was that it was a 4,6-diene, aka 6-dehydromethyltestosterone.
 
Mass_69 said:
Neo, that link is to 1-dehydromethyltestosterone, which indeed is dianabol. I think the thought of JW was that it was a 4,6-diene, aka 6-dehydromethyltestosterone.
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Sorry I am dull of mind in this area, can you explain more for me. I do not claim to know much about chemistry. it's amazing how quiet Google is on this chem 6-dehydromethyltestosterone.
 
neoborn said:
:) was actually being funny in response to your overreaction to a post on a forum. Sorry you are too hurt and upset to see the funny side of it.

Now in relation to the comments, Invalid Link Removed, but as usual PA is doing his usual sh!t disturbing. It's a given that Invalid Link Removedwas a little harsh but he is truly on the right track. Please think for yourself and do not be fooled by this ex criminals tactics that he uses to persecute companies and more applicably. D has a good reason to react a little defensively as he is always being attacked by the likes of PA ( not absolutely scumy but just slimey none the less ).

Please read my pattern post and see it for what it is. Why don't you ask a bunch of customers whether it works not some competitor "chemist" who is trying to save our collapsing supplemental world.

Don't drink the H8rade.

<3 Neoborn <3
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I take back what I said. My apologies. Just a little over aggressive when I get pushed sometimes.
 
macedaddy said:
I don't disagree...........

But, PA goes about it completely wrong and I hesitate to think that he actually is trying to HELP the consumer. Maybe he is trying to get help them put more money in HIS pocket.......

He uses SMOKE AND MIRRORS to confuse the people and claims that he is a chemist, SO HE MUST BE CORRECT! That is why I take the defensive.......

Of ALL the companies out there.............he picks 2 of his BIGGEST competitors to "ATTACK". seems fishy to me.........

The END result may be a more informed consumer and THAT is great! But things cna be handled COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY!

I take no offense to your posts, PI! :thumbsup:
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I am a chemist, i don't just claim that

and my points are damn valid

the only smoke and mirrors here are your companies response to the points

i don't do this to put money in my pocket. in fact i may drive away people by my attitude and lose money ultimately. certainly others in my company do not like me posting here at all

i do it cuz i simply cannot stand liars with big egos who pretend to be chemists. and i can't stop myself. i probably should stop
 
Patrick Arnold said:
I am a chemist, i don't just claim that

and my points are damn valid

the only smoke and mirrors here are your companies response to the points
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How is it smoke and mirrors on our end when WE TOLD YOU WE WERE PERFORMING A UNIVERSITY STUDY? even when you get informed responses, you continue on and are unhappy...........you then take the aspect of calling out the marketing of our product........and then go on to insult D!

Patrick Arnold said:
i don't do this to put money in my pocket. in fact i may drive away people by my attitude and lose money ultimately. certainly others in my company do not like me posting here at all

i do it cuz i simply cannot stand liars with big egos who pretend to be chemists. and i can't stop myself. i probably should stop
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must be hard to look in the mirror in the morning!
 
DR.D said:
Of course it is Pat, 6-Oxo will be convert to Andro after ingestion, are you denying that? That makes 6-Oxo a Pro-Hormone or PH to the banned anabolic steroid known as androstenedione.

Sorry, I have never felt the need to point it out till now, but "blatant lying just can't be forgiven though" Pat, so fess up buddy.
Click to expand...


i know you are playing a game cuz you are not this dumb
 
DR.D said:
Yes, 6-Oxo will convert to several hydroxylated metabolites, one of which is the androgenic steroid 6-hydroxy-Testosterone.
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6-hydroxytestosterone is not androgenic

so instead of answering concerns you play a game of lying about my products

the consumers are so grateful
 
Patrick Arnold said:
6-hydroxytestosterone is not androgenic

so instead of answering concerns you play a game of lying about my products

the consumers are so grateful
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It is a hydroxylated testosterone derivative. That is a fact, not a game. If you would not classify that as an androgen, then what?
 
Alphadriven said:
I ran an eight week cycle of Hyperdrol, Mass FX and Retain in February of this year. Half way through the cycle, when it was released, I switched to Hyperdrol 2. Over this time period, I leaned out, dropped by BF percentage 2 points (13 to 11), and saw huge increases in strength (bench went from 225 to 265). I have two other work out partners who took this same cycle but started later and exclusively used Hyperdrol. They all had similar results. One of the biggest positive effects in my opinion is the way that you feel on Hyperdrol 2. I literally felt 10 years younger, had a huge sex drive, and great intensity in the gym. I really looked forward to taking the doses. When I came off the stack, I really crashed hard for two weeks with some strength loses, lethargy, and a loss in sex drive. After the two weeks, I felt like I was back to normal.

There are some definite real world gains from Hyperdrol 2. Now, I am not sure if they are due to the AI benefits or the possibility that this compound converts to a steriod.

Now before you call me a shill (I only lurk here), I post on BB.com as onefstm, am currently on week 4 of a 600mg 11-Oxo cycle, and have done my share of AX bashing due to the delay of 3-ad.

Out of this stack, I feel that Hyperdrol 2 is the product that works! During the cycle, you are recommended to stop Mass FX for 2 weeks. Based on my own "feelings", I could not tell anything from Mass FX or Retain.

I have some camera phone pics of myself before, during, and at the end of the cycle. There are some definite improvements. I can post them here if anyone is interested.

PA really peaked my interest about Hyperdrol 2 on the BB forums. There are some real gains to this product. One of my work out partners who has done his share or real steriods said that this stuff feel a lot like the "juice" to him. The gains are similar to what I achieved on 11-Oxo plus I felt better.
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yes hyperdrol is a prohormone which requires PCT, just as your results reflect

its a shame that i have to educate AX consumers about their own products
 
PumpingIron said:
I take back what I said. My apologies. Just a little over aggressive when I get pushed sometimes.
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S'all good bro. Both sides most certainly have valid points. It's easy to get into heated debates when we believe what we have is the truth and believe in it alot.

Be firm and stand in your beliefs.

No conspiracy but PA's goal is what, to change the supp world for the better? To make labels meet their claims?

Don't worry that's what customers / the new FDA laws do. Thanks for the thoughts though PA.

If I could truly motivate PA I would motivate him to be more like D with helping people out. If he spent half the time helping people that he does witchhunting Dr.D then perhaps the whole supp industry WOULD benefit!

I hope I didn't offend you PI...much love <3 :fool2: Neoborn :fool2: <3
 
neoborn said:
Sorry I am dull of mind in this area, can you explain more for me. I do not claim to know much about chemistry. it's amazing how quiet Google is on this chem 6-dehydromethyltestosterone.
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try

17alpha-methyl-4,6-androstadiene-17beta-ol-3-one
 
There is way too much estrogen in this thread, maybe it's the weather across country. Maybe the crowns mean princess and not reputable. Too bad, I had/have alot of respect for your people's input but this thread seems to be threatening that.

Let's turn our attention away from the bashing and hurt feelings and get back to the discussion.

The first products I took since joining here was the AX mass stack, and I loved it. Really felt good and got good gains. I will buy it again, and I remain a fan of Am and AX. But damn you people are starting to act like kids.

It also appears that those that post the least seem to remain "on topic".

For me, will still buy the AX Mass Stack, and the ALRI stack. If it's too potent, all the better. Just keep help me get my tired butt in the gym.

Respect to all, just please reduce the crying and bashing.
 
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macedaddy said:
How is it smoke and mirrors on our end when WE TOLD YOU WE WERE PERFORMING A UNIVERSITY STUDY? !
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is your skull so goddam thick that you think a proper answer to questions regarding specific examples of suspicious marketing claims is

"we are gonna perform a university study"


you said in your advertisement over and over that this compound was documented to do several things. you mentioned the word "studies" many times.

where are the studies? what did you base your statements on? - THAT is the bottom line!!!

what did you guys do, transport yourselves into the future? do you claim studies were done and then attempt to do them yourselves to verify?
 
FrankJ said:
I think what he is trying to say is that technically this may be possible, and is about as likely as 6-Bromo converting to a PH, suggesting that both are primarily anti-estrogens.
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if that is what he is saying then it is plain wrong and there is no evidence - direct or indirect - to support it

i made some statements and backed them up with sound scientific logic

he made a statement and backed it up with nothing.

there is no equivalence here, so i hope you are not suggesting there is
 
There are several Russian studies that have these claims. Unfortunately they speak about other compounds were are trying to bring to the market. For that reason our company has chosen not to disclose them.

All of this has been stated before and unfortunately our legal team have advised us(AX owners) not to engage you.

You can wait for the study to be complete.
 
DR.D said:
It is a hydroxylated testosterone derivative. That is a fact, not a game. If you would not classify that as an androgen, then what?
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it does not have androgenic activity, that is the issue. and that is the accusation you made
 
BigSmith said:
There are several Russian studies that have these claims. Unfortunately they speak about other compounds were are trying to bring to the market. For that reason our company has chosen not to disclose them.

All of this has been stated before and unfortunately our legal team have advised us(AX owners) not to engage you.

You can wait for the study to be complete.
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oh that is just goddam pathetic

and completely unacceptable

as well as unbelievable - i have access to every study on the stuff and i posted every study, including russian.

you played the same friggin game with me after you threatened me on the 11-oxo. i asked your patent attorneys to allow me to see your patent application or the claims at least. you said its all confidential cuz of propietary information.

your game is to lie and deceive, and then pull this card when confronted
 
Patrick Arnold said:
you played the same friggin game with me after you threatened me on the 11-oxo. i asked your patent attorneys to allow me to see your patent application or the claims at least. you said its all confidential cuz of propietary information.
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They are the experts. That was their call.

See ya soon. :)
 
BigSmith said:
There are several Russian studies that have these claims. Unfortunately they speak about other compounds were are trying to bring to the market. For that reason our company has chosen not to disclose them.

All of this has been stated before and unfortunately our legal team have advised us(AX owners) not to engage you.

You can wait for the study to be complete.
Click to expand...

Wow, great answer.
 
I am a little lost here lol. PA are u saying that JW, BAM, MassFX and HDx2 are in fact mild prosteroids? I have taken everything listed but MassFX and had great results. My best results were with HDx2.

I will have to go back read thru this badbody 2 or 3 times and see if I can understand any of it.
 
PumpingIron said:
... So basically, you sir are a fool. Way to sink to bb.com standards.
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Then please forgive me PI, I did not communicate myself properly it seems. I did not mean my comments as an insult and have always enjoyed your contributions here. Just be careful who you believe. Don't be tricked (fooled was a bad choice of wording.)
 
Patrick Arnold said:
you said in your advertisement over and over that this compound was documented to do several things. you mentioned the word "studies" many times.

where are the studies? what did you base your statements on? - THAT is the bottom line!!!
Click to expand...

When a company makes claims about a product, and then says those claims are backed by studies, it is customary to cite the specific research in question (or at least give details) in order to justify those claims. But refusing to release information about the supporting research is essentially equivalent, in the eyes of the research-oriented consumer or skeptical chemist, to not having any supporting research.
 
UNCfan1 said:
I am a little lost here lol. PA are u saying that JW, BAM, MassFX and HDx2 are in fact mild prosteroids? I have taken everything listed but MassFX and had great results. My best results were with HDx2.

I will have to go back read thru this badbody 2 or 3 times and see if I can understand any of it.
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here is how i see it

JW - prosteroid

BAM - plant sterols

Mass FX - plant sterols, grapefruit extract, and divanil

HDx2 - prohormone
 
TeamSavage said:
When a company makes claims about a product, and then says those claims are backed by studies, it is customary to cite the specific research in question (or at least give details) in order to justify those claims. But refusing to release information about the supporting research is essentially equivalent, in the eyes of the research-oriented consumer or skeptical chemist, to not having any supporting research.
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excellent point

if you truly cannot reveal any research then you DO NOT make reference to that research in the first place

It is like charging someone with a crime and then not allowing their defense attorneys access to the evidence during the trial. "Trust us, he is guilty and we have the evidence but it is sensitive so we cannot show it to you" "Just convict him"
 
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