(3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

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Patrick Arnold said:
bioperine is good for somethings. things that are not easily absorbed from the intestine for instance - it helps the permeability somehow

also it is a glucuronidation inhibitor for phenolic type compounds. examples are resveratrol, EGCG, flavonoids. this increases their bioavailability

and i am not going to bother repeating my questions cuz its obvious they will never be answered. i agree this thread is useless now. not that i ever expected an answer from those guys
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Thanks for the answer, even though this isn't the appropriate thread to post it in. My immaturity leaks out at moments like this... but I was in need of expert opinion and all the experts appear to be gravitating towards this thread.

-Many thanks
 
FitnFirm said:
Yep. Im dumb as a box of rocks, you got me :rolleyes:
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the FDA is understaffed and working on a very limited budget

it is crazy to think that they are going to be on top of every false advertising claim and are going to understand that 6bromo is androgenic etc. etc.

yes they may give ALRI more attention than others but that is why ALRI gets sneakier and sneakier. cuz they know that the FDA is not manned by experts who can spend all their time figuring out what everything is. hence the ambiguous labels, the miswritten steroid name hidden amongst a bunch of weird herb extracts

bottom line, there are thousands of things on the market now which the FDA could easily, and justifiably, pull off the market at any time. they don't because they are overwhelmed. sh't, it is the impotence of the FDA that is the sole reason why many of the companies in this industry make so much money!!
 
This thread is going nowhere fast.

Once again, Neoborn's progression of these kinds of threads has rung itself true.

I hate this place sometimes.

UNSUBSCRIBED.
 
macedaddy said:
hey fit........want to form a club? Patrick Arnold says that I am dumb, too, so it must be true! :toofunny:
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maybe you are just brainwashed. like fitnfirm

keep following my posts and you will be deprogrammed. i cannot even begin to tell you how many before you have jumped ship to my side
 
Patrick why don't you work together with the companies on the low down to bring everyone together instead of causing more and more divisivness?
 
Patrick Arnold said:
maybe you are just brainwashed. like fitnfirm

keep following my posts and you will be deprogrammed. i cannot even begin to tell you how many before you have jumped ship to my side
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You sure your not the one trying to do the brain washing ??? Im not impressionable, I like facts and ALR has shown me the facts which has made me a believer. He would never harm me in any way or form. He actually cares about athletes and people he just doesnt have time to play on the boards to show it.
 
FitnFirm said:
You sure your not the one trying to do the brain washing ??? Im not impressionable, I like facts and ALR has shown me the facts which has made me a believer. He would never harm me in any way or form. He actually cares about athletes and people he just doesnt have time to play on the boards to show it.
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From what I read about the BALCO scandal, Pat cares about the athletes too... He likes to see them get the extra 'oomph'

Couldn't help myself there. :type:
 
HORMONES AND ALL PRECURSORS & METABOLITES, DERIVATIVES AND RELATED COMPOUNDS. The use of any hormone (inject able, oral, sublingual or otherwise) for bodybuilding purposes – including insulin – is strictly prohibited. All hormonal precursors (DHEA, androstenedione; 19-norandrostenedione; androstenediol; 5-AD; 7-KetoDHEA; androsteneTRIONE; 17-androdione; etc.) are banned effective January 1, 2000. Additional hormonal supplements ( 6-OXO; 6-OXO-androstenetrione; 2a,17a-dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one; 3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene; 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione; 3-Alpha (5a-androstane-3a,17b-diol); etc.) have been identified as of January 1, 2004, but are banned effective January 1, 2004. Prescription Thyroid hormone medication when used for bodybuilding purposes is banned. Pro-Steroids (1-Test), etc. are banned effective January 1, 2000. The presence of any banned substance in the urine (i.e., nandrolone, etc.), no matter how it arrived there, is ruled as a positive (failure).
 
StellaArtois said:
when i started to read PA's post at first, beside this one, i thought to myself wow this guy is a jerk, but you know what i think now he's just being honest or at least backs up what he says instead feeding everyone sh#t statements filled with words that trick the weak minded.
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Yeah, he definitely comes off as sort of a jerk (at least online). But he does back up what he says and he really knows his stuff. Personally, I'd rather have a jerk with expertise and evidence than a saint with a lot of double-talk and hype. That's just me, though. :) Seriously, PA is one of the world's leading experts on steroid chemistry and pharmacology, if not the expert. Considering this, you think people could get past his abrasive personality and actually listen to the points he's making.

That's sort of been overlooked in this whole debate. Regardless of his motives, he originally brought up some really interesting, accurate points about 25R-diol, stuff that nobody else on the board had the expertise to notice. This is also true about some of the other products he's been "bashing". That rubs people the wrong way, but frankly, that's their problem, not his... and we 3rd-parties only stand to benefit.
 
Grunt76 said:
You know what with all this stuff?

You know the message I get?

F**K all these FU**ING legal supplements, do hardcore cycles and tons of peptides in post cycle therapy.

This is just too mucking fuch BS all around, and wading through the posts to get to the science, while interesting, is too time-consuming to get to know which product will or won't add 10% effectiveness to my post cycle therapy.

The cookies are on the dark side, for sure.
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Best post in this thread. Get twice the results for 1/2 the cash.
 
donk said:
Best post in this thread. Get twice the results for 1/2 the cash.
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Yeah... either that or don't screw with your hormones period. The only recreational steroid users I've ever known do it so they can look tough in a tank top at the bar/club scene. When it comes down to it, any given 1, 2,3, or 4 of those meathead, roided out, pin-cushion freaks ever got enraged with me accidentally bumping into one of them while walking by, I'd calmly slaughter them in a matter of 45 seconds without hesitation.

I don't see a point in doping up on roids unless you're competing in a bodybuilding show.

Stay natural and live the lifestyle.
 
TeamSavage said:
Yeah, he definitely comes off as sort of a jerk (at least online). But he does back up what he says and he really knows his stuff. Personally, I'd rather have a jerk with expertise and evidence than a saint with a lot of double-talk and hype. That's just me, though. :) Seriously, PA is one of the world's leading experts on steroid chemistry and pharmacology, if not the expert. Considering this, you think people could get past his abrasive personality and actually listen to the points he's making.

That's sort of been overlooked in this whole debate. Regardless of his motives, he originally brought up some really interesting, accurate points about 25R-diol, stuff that nobody else on the board had the expertise to notice. This is also true about some of the other products he's been "bashing". That rubs people the wrong way, but frankly, that's their problem, not his... and we 3rd-parties only stand to benefit.
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He is an expert at hiding steroids in supplements, that can no longer play that game. All work and no play makes Pat a dull boy :( He got caught and now we all must pay !:ntome:
 
FitnFirm said:
Hmmmm Wada doesnt seem to think 6 OXO is all that great for athletes, according to this document.
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Who is Wada? The grammar and spelling in that document is terrible. It's funny that is basically says based on the success of his previous endeavors, everyone is going to buy this product, which he's pretty sure, as spelled in this document, "metabolises" into an anabolic steroid. The document then says "based on this research, 6-OXO is a steroid" What research? Where is the research? This looks more like a claim with no basis than research.
 
SCDiesel23 said:
Who is Wada? The grammar and spelling in that document is terrible. It's funny that is basically says based on the success of his previous endeavors, everyone is going to buy this product, which he's pretty sure, as spelled in this document, "metabolises" into an anabolic steroid. The document then says "based on this research, 6-OXO is a steroid" What research? Where is the research? This looks more like a claim with no basis than research.
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World Anti-Doping Agency


Invalid Link Removed
 
FitnFirm said:
World Anti-Doping Agency


Invalid Link Removed
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Oh wow, I must say I have to question their legitimacy after releasing a document like that, which is more a poorly spelled opinionated piece than a research paper.

I'm pretty sure everyone understands that 6-OXO and ATD and the like are steroidal AIs.
 
What's the use of being the world's top steriodal anything if you can't release what you create? or are even allowed to touch what you need to to create something of value....for instance like a perfect steroid without sides or only positive sides ( massive erections :) )
 
FitnFirm said:
Hmmmm Wada doesnt seem to think 6 OXO is all that great for athletes, according to this document.
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WADA calls it an anabolic steroid. It's classified along with it's metabolites as an androgenic hormone at the very least.

That's gotta be a parole violation, right? I mean, he's selling anabolic/androgenic steroids right over the counter! When he's not selling them to athletes and their trainers under the table I guess.

Then he has the audacity to call ALR on being sneaky? Wow! And people pretend to think he gives a damn about them and that's the real reasons he started this thread, because he's clearly so moral and outspoken about what's right and true. What a jokey-joke!

5 minutes alone in the cage with this punk, that all I ask!!
 
Force of Green said:
Yeah... either that or don't screw with your hormones period. The only recreational steroid users I've ever known do it so they can look tough in a tank top at the bar/club scene. When it comes down to it, any given 1, 2,3, or 4 of those meathead, roided out, pin-cushion freaks ever got enraged with me accidentally bumping into one of them while walking by, I'd calmly slaughter them in a matter of 45 seconds without hesitation.

I don't see a point in doping up on roids unless you're competing in a bodybuilding show.

Stay natural and live the lifestyle.
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This quote would fit perfectly in Napoleon Dynamite.
 
No one sleeps around here...

Anyways, this thread has gone in so many different directions it is insane. I think we should all just wait for BigSmith and AX's university study on 25R-diol and be done with all this?

That's my take.

And everybody who said nice things about me about 2 pages back while I was in bed...thank you much.
 
neoborn said:
Patrick why don't you work together with the companies on the low down to bring everyone together instead of causing more and more divisivness?
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i am presently working on projects with a few of my competitors actually, in the role of contract manufacturer. i can't reveal anything of course

i also started USFA with rick collins years ago which was a trade organization consisting of several companies to keep prohormones legal

you only see the negative unfortunately
 
FitnFirm said:
HORMONES AND ALL PRECURSORS & METABOLITES, DERIVATIVES AND RELATED COMPOUNDS. The use of any hormone (inject able, oral, sublingual or otherwise) for bodybuilding purposes – including insulin – is strictly prohibited. All hormonal precursors (DHEA, androstenedione; 19-norandrostenedione; androstenediol; 5-AD; 7-KetoDHEA; androsteneTRIONE; 17-androdione; etc.) are banned effective January 1, 2000. Additional hormonal supplements ( 6-OXO; 6-OXO-androstenetrione; 2a,17a-dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one; 3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene; 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione; 3-Alpha (5a-androstane-3a,17b-diol); etc.) have been identified as of January 1, 2004, but are banned effective January 1, 2004. Prescription Thyroid hormone medication when used for bodybuilding purposes is banned. Pro-Steroids (1-Test), etc. are banned effective January 1, 2000. The presence of any banned substance in the urine (i.e., nandrolone, etc.), no matter how it arrived there, is ruled as a positive (failure).
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what is the significance of this to anything we are talking about?

i know its there and i am always telling people its there fitnfirm
 
SCDiesel23 said:
Who is Wada? The grammar and spelling in that document is terrible. It's funny that is basically says based on the success of his previous endeavors, everyone is going to buy this product, which he's pretty sure, as spelled in this document, "metabolises" into an anabolic steroid. The document then says "based on this research, 6-OXO is a steroid" What research? Where is the research? This looks more like a claim with no basis than research.
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wada is the world anti-doping agency and they make statements that are not necessarily medically accurate. they make politically expedient claims

i have actually paid to have a hershberger study done on 6-oxo (uses castrated rats). done by U of illinois chicago. found no anabolic or androgenic activity at all
 
Non-athletes, in the US, should basically go by the Steroid Act of 2004...for legality issues.

Athletes need to check with your organization as to what the guidelines are for supplementation. NCAA and WADA are a good start though.

That really shouldn't be part of this debate...
 
DR.D said:
WADA calls it an anabolic steroid. It's classified along with it's metabolites as an androgenic hormone at the very least.

That's gotta be a parole violation, right? I mean, he's selling anabolic/androgenic steroids right over the counter! When he's not selling them to athletes and their trainers under the table I guess.

Then he has the audacity to call ALR on being sneaky? Wow! And people pretend to think he gives a damn about them and that's the real reasons he started this thread, because he's clearly so moral and outspoken about what's right and true. What a jokey-joke!

5 minutes alone in the cage with this punk, that all I ask!!
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WADA is not a scientific organization and their statements are not necessarily scientifically accurate





MOD EDIT: Thread closed. Topic isn't even being discussed and its nothing but a personal ***** fest now from all parties.
 
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