(3b,5a,6a,25R)-Spirostan-3,6-diol

[Force of Green]

all very well said

but

what about making specific and bold claims in advertisments that are completely fabricated?

The claims... many of them we could live without. If you are having a group of friends over and want to get a really good laugh going on, have a couple drinks, pull up a few chairs around the computer and go to LGscience.com (legalgear.com) and you'll be peeing your pants while reading their literature.

The companies need to make a strong marketing campaign, and the average supplement buyer is not very bright and likes to try anything out of a Muscle and Fitness magazine. I think those magazines should all be banned. I can't blame the companies for making such bold claims about their products, to a certain degree. I also believe that a higher degree of honesty to balance out the hype would favor a different market of people; A smarter market. I'd rather read that, "This product will only work if your diet, sleep, and training habits are consistant. Results to be expected with this product are as follows.....yada yada... and so and such will be noticed after 'x' amount of days."... then read: "MIND STIFLING PUMPS! USERS REPORT 15 LBS OF LBM IN 30 DAYS! INTENSE FOCUS! ETC!"

The companies that project honesty and integrity are the companies that will thrive in a better market and survive the test of time.

 

[DR.D]

... he is playing consumer advocate and for that I am thankful.

Then you are a fool. If this product was a scam, don't you think the consumer would have figured that out by now? Do you honestly think it would still be selling? Use you head for 1 minute and recognize, this is NOT consumer advocacy going on here bro! It's a bored Pat starting **** because he has nothing better to do. :type:

Funny now nobody else has complained about results, quite the opposite, but somebody who I bet has never even tried the product suddenly has 'concerns'. He played this game with Epi too, but it's still selling out as fast as it can be stocked, so the smart consumers have made their choice, while the sheep and fearies can follow the shepard of their own choosing.

 

[DR.D]

... I REALLY hope AX can prove this wrong bc they are an amazing company ...

Don't hold your breath! AX has nothing to prove here at all. The consumer has already proven it! Results speak louder than studies, or haven't you heard? Don't tell me you don't read logs man.

 

[sublimejeh]

He played this game with Epi too, but it's still selling out as fast as it can be stocked, so the smart consumers have made their choice, while the sheep and fearies can follow the shepard of their own choosing.

:study: :thumbsup:

 

[Force of Green]

Then you are a fool. If this product was a scam, don't you think the consumer would have figured that out by now? Do you honestly think it would still be selling? Use you head for 1 minute and recognize, this is NOT consumer advocacy going on here bro! It's a bored Pat starting **** because he has nothing better to do. :type:

Funny now nobody else has complained about results, quite the opposite, but somebody who I bet has never even tried the product suddenly has 'concerns'. He played this game with Epi too, but it's still selling out as fast as it can be stocked, so the smart consumers have made their choice, while the sheep and fearies can follow the shepard of their own choosing.

Sorry Pat, but as much as I despise false claims and such, I think you're going after the wrong people. I see Dr. D as having similar intentions as myself... I go out of my way to help people. Dr. D sets aside time from his life and his things to help people out... Hell, whenever I give 'The Bat Signal', Dr. D has always been there to help me out.

There's plenty of room for many supplement companies in this market... something tells me that all of the emails you've been getting saying, "why is your 11-oxo more money than 3-AD? What makes yours better?" started to piss you off when you really don't have an answer except, "11 oxo is 3AD, only more expensive."

 

[DR.D]

hyperdrol 2 contains 6alpha-bromoandrostandione which, as i postulated in another thread, is likely a prohormone to an anabolic steroid

Much like 6-oxo-Androstenedione is a prohormone of Andro, the banned anabolic steroid? Is that what you mean Pat? Don't you sell that one?

 

[DR.D]

You're an arrogant mother****ing prick. If you didn't have so much to gain by bashing others, didn't work in the same business, it would be interesting; as it is, you're a two-faced whiner.

My $.02. Good luck.

Finally, an man with a brain of his own here that can perform deductive reasoning! :welcome:

 

[poison]

LOL, and I thought this thread had actually been quite civil till now. Actually I thought Pat was doing quite a good job of being civil in all these threads.

He has, no doubt. I'll give him that.

These threads will do nothing but provide a service to you in my opinion. If we find some good research on a compound questioned than sales should sky rocket and the company producing it will make tons of money and be able to make more good products. If these are found out to be rip offs (I hope not) than at least we know. If we find out nothing than nothing has changed, buy it if you want or don't.

I'm all for learning, sharing of knowledge, and protecting the consumer. I just abhor his way of trying to come across as if he's doing it for us, when clearly its in his best interest to do so. The 6-bromo thread was done in better taste. Also, I'm not a fan of looking at another man's stiffee: he's clearly got one for ALRI. If he'd share the hate a bit more (ie against other companies as well), it would be less offensive.

Now, back to the leg-humping.

 

[neoborn]

Wow I wonder which company this weeks witch hunt could be directed at I think it will massively affect us all the the EXTREME!!!

PA what were the results of the last witch hunt? They locked / closed the thread with a polite " oh yah screw the community we'll keep these findings to ourselves"

Kthx.

Here I Go Again For The Record

As per the same kind of thread that was started with ALRI and their Jungle Warfare, I am going on record yet again to say that no results will come of this, if y'all don't see the pattern you all seriously must be blind. I will quote again for you from the other thread:

How to create the perfect drama thread?

1. Make outrageous, outlandish, ambigous possibly could be true statement about product.

2. Create as much drama to attract all the queens on various forums.

3. Attract people who actually know chemistry to discuss / confuse the average sheep.

4. Do not state testing method in any kind of reasonable detail

5. Claim you cannot post results for fear of legal action

6. Thread carries on with people like Leonidas posting bvllsh!t content like "wow the weather here is really great" etc being totally off topic.

7. Thread dies

8. No replies, no responses from A) the OP B) Accused company C) Chemist guys.

9. Thread fades into the archive to never be ressurrected.

So all in all there you have it. Want me to post multiple cases where this happens and all with NO RESOLUTIONS to these matters cause I can?

Same old .....same old, same sh!t different pile.



Was there any disclosure as to the results of PA's findings with JW? Please show me, where the threads are and where the closure / coming clean is, cause I for one don't see them. It's nice to talk about how much PA's doing for the consumer but when do we ever get results / explanations / proof as to the findings? Are any of you more certain now, what exactly is in JW than before the PA hunt?

Please anyone / everyone please feel free to show me the post / links that set these all straight. Epi, JW, MassFX......anyone see a pattern in the hunt? I have see alot of talk from both sides with no conclusion.

Please anyone you just let me know if I'm way off the mark here? kthx.

P.S Pat stop playing good samaritan, you sir are a wolf in sheeps clothing. Truly.

 

[TeamSavage]

My one comment..........

A full university study on Mass FX is about to go underway (through a major university). We just passed through the ethics board and are getting ready for the selection stage.

Awesome. Will the study be controlled using a placebo group? (I hope so... If not, the study is a big waste of time.) Also, how many subjects will be included?

 

[TeamSavage]

He has, no doubt. I'll give him that.
I'm all for learning, sharing of knowledge, and protecting the consumer. I just abhor his way of trying to come across as if he's doing it for us.

Some people just hate B.S. and will call it whenever they think they see it. That doesn't mean they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart, but it still ends up helping the consumer.

 

[neoborn]

For people with high levels of reputation points, some of you are starting to act like a bunch of kids - please take the name calling elsewhere... This thread is starting to digress in certain places. however, if that is the direction I'll add my question:

PA question: with all the supplements like Hyperdrol 2, BAM, JW, MassFX etc., (especially after your calling into questions certain ingredients) what would you recommend as a very efficient and effective stack that presents the best gains for the consumer's money. The goal is strength and muscle gain.

Thanks,

LOL his products of course!!!

 

[neoborn]

I'd like to see PA test some Bam and Massfx, just curious of the results as it doesn't add up people are getting results when as PA says they shouldn't, i think that would clear up alot of confusion. Same with the Hyperdrol x2

I can guarantee that it will show you want PA wants you to see. Sigh the whole sheep thing following PA the shepherd is really getting old with me. Please people, learn to think for yourselves.

 

[superdrollover]

PA, I seem to remember before 11-oxo was released you were on bb.com talking about how stupid it was to hype it like AX was doing with 3-AD yet from what I have gathered from all your threads latley you are doing the same thing except at your competitors expense. You are obviously a very smart man im sure everyone can and will agree,but you seem to think your sh!t dont stink because of 1-AD. Well I thnk the 1-AD card has expired so its time to step up to the plate with the inovative companies such as AX or ALRI or retire!

 

[neoborn]

LOL, and I thought this thread had actually been quite civil till now. Actually I thought Pat was doing quite a good job of being civil in all these threads.

If I smile while slitting your throat does that make me happy?

 

[Zombie]

If I smile while slitting your throat does that make me happy?

lol :lol: that always makes me happy

 

[Force of Green]

Since there're a lot of well known, smart people on this thread... I had a question.... I'm leaning out on a recomp/maintenence plan and I'm really upset over something during my day and instead of eating junkfood, I'm splurging on organic berries... Is it going to effect weightloss a lot if for one feeding period I eat a LOT of berries? I may have a lot of protein (grilled chicken) and healthy fats afterwards too... Is this that bad to do? Thanks! I'm 100% serious BTW.

 

[neoborn]

lol :lol: that always makes me happy

Er I was considering changing that to " does that mean I am happy" which sounds better and makes more sense :ntome:

 

[neoborn]

Since there're a lot of well known, smart people on this thread... I had a question.... I'm leaning out on a recomp/maintenence plan and I'm really upset over something during my day and instead of eating junkfood, I'm splurging on organic berries... Is it going to effect weightloss a lot if for one feeding period I eat a LOT of berries? I may have a lot of protein (grilled chicken) and healthy fats afterwards too... Is this that bad to do? Thanks! I'm 100% serious BTW.

I would think something healthy like fruit to be better than downing a haagen daiz for sure. The only thing I would guess this may do is spike your blood sugar levels. Then again I may not know wtf I am talking about k next person please

 

[Zombie]

Er I was considering changing that to " does that mean I am happy" which sounds better and makes more sense :ntome:

slitting someones throat an watching all that blood and looking their eyes as their life escapes from their body brings happyness to mine . lol im a sadistic bastard

im talking of horror movies


/now back to my box

 

[Force of Green]

I would think something healthy like fruit to be better than downing a haagen daiz for sure. The only thing I would guess this may do is spike your blood sugar levels. Then again I may not know wtf I am talking about k next person please

Thanks neoborn... I was reading about fruits low impact as far as insulin response because fructose needs to pass through the liver and something about the water content and fiber content also slowing things down and so forth... The only thing that gets me bent out of shape anymore are women. I had high expectations with this Polish girl who I ended up spending part of my day until it was so lame and are signals were so crossed that I ended our time early to go home and watch Law and Order! I feel the need to eat a lot, but maybe it's cortisol? Maybe it's something else... What can I eat!? I have a ton of food! I have carne asada, sirloin steaks, chicken (all meats are organic), veggies, lentils.... etc. Anyone in LA feel like coming by for a cookout? LOL

 

[Force of Green]

I haven't felt this hungry in ages.... I guess I could make bowl after bowl of salad... but that will sit in my GI tract forever, keeping the midsection a bit inflated.

 

[BigSmith]

Awesome. Will the study be controlled using a placebo group?

Yes sir. That was not even an option. The numbers (subjects) have not been confirmed yet. I should know within a week or so. I have an idea but I do not want to say until it is confirmed.

 

[Force of Green]

Bigsmith, would you like peppers and onions with your carne asada? Black beans ok?

 

[Zombie]

i like guacamole with my carne asada

 

[Force of Green]

i like guacamole with my carne asada

I love guacamole! I'm going to make some chicken, veggies, lentils, and black beans... that'll be healthy... oh and a salad. Yall can have some food if you'd like.... I stocked my freezer with organic chicken and grass fed organic filet mignon.

 

[Zombie]

Yall can have some food if you'd like.... I stocked my freezer with organic chicken and grass fed organic filet mignon.

PM me your addy :lol and a plane ticket if you dont live in AZ



what kind of dressing do you regularly use ? or you use one depending on the salad ?

 

[BigSmith]

Bigsmith, would you like peppers and onions with your carne asada? Black beans ok?

I love black beans............

Yes on the onions and peppers please

 

[Zombie]

I love black beans............

Yes on the onions and peppers please

Have you been to a Macayos or Arriba overthere Tempe/PHX area?

if yes do you like them ?

food was ok for my taste.

 

[BigSmith]

Oh yeah. Macoyos is alright.

 

[Force of Green]

PM me your addy :lol and a plane ticket if you dont live in AZ



what kind of dressing do you regularly use ? or you use one depending on the salad ?

I am using raspberry vinegarette for this salad... just romaine and roasted peppers and tomatoes. Call 310-709-9740 for your flight details...

 

[Force of Green]

I love black beans............

Yes on the onions and peppers please

Sweet! This thread rules! Black beans, peppers, onions, steak it is!

 

[neoborn]

HEY!!!! take it to the "nancy boi I like to cook for other men" forum area please

<3 Neoborn < 3

 

[rpen22]

...

 

[Force of Green]

HEY!!!! take it to the "nancy boi I like to cook for other men" forum area please

<3 Neoborn < 3

LOL

 

[Zombie]

Agreed. Some of my friends are obsessed with that place.

lol when i go i usually order steak Cortez and chimichangas and a couple of tres margaritas.

Tres Margarita
A refreshing mix of Sauza Tres Generations Plata, Presidente Brandy, Cointeau and Macayo's mix.

 

[rpen22]

...

 

[luke1984]

First, thanks for bringing this to our attention..

Next, I've always wondered about a lot of products these days.. most people increase their protein and caloric intake when taking these products. Because of this I almost feel that they may be correcting areas of their diet where they lacked and then are led to believe that whatever product they are taking is what 'helped' them. Then there will always be the mental(placebo) boost that could also help them punch through a plateau.

Anybody else been thinking this?

Does that really matter? You buy a product to get results. And that is what you get, even if it's just a placebo effect.

Although I must say most products are too expensive for just the placebo effect...

 

[Patrick Arnold]

The claims... many of them we could live without. If you are having a group of friends over and want to get a really good laugh going on, have a couple drinks, pull up a few chairs around the computer and go to LGscience.com (legalgear.com) and you'll be peeing your pants while reading their literature.

The companies need to make a strong marketing campaign, and the average supplement buyer is not very bright and likes to try anything out of a Muscle and Fitness magazine. I think those magazines should all be banned. I can't blame the companies for making such bold claims about their products, to a certain degree.

I can live with boldness to some extent. blatant lying just can't be forgiven though

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Much like 6-oxo-Androstenedione is a prohormone of Andro, the banned anabolic steroid? Is that what you mean Pat? Don't you sell that one?

its not a prohormone to androstenedione

god are you that incompetent?

 

[PumpingIron]

Then you are a fool. If this product was a scam, don't you think the consumer would have figured that out by now? Do you honestly think it would still be selling? Use you head for 1 minute and recognize, this is NOT consumer advocacy going on here bro! It's a bored Pat starting **** because he has nothing better to do. :type:

Funny now nobody else has complained about results, quite the opposite, but somebody who I bet has never even tried the product suddenly has 'concerns'. He played this game with Epi too, but it's still selling out as fast as it can be stocked, so the smart consumers have made their choice, while the sheep and fearies can follow the shepard of their own choosing.

Now what is the reason for attacking me? I said that in a generality about everytime PA has brought up arguments, valid or not, and brought them to the not-so-educated consumer's attention.

It's good with any product, food, clothing, automobiles, whatever. I like you and mace, but you both jump to quickly on the defensive. Maybe if you take the time and just refute what PA has said and not only come out with: "well consumers seem to like this" than things would be resolved more easily and in a quicker fashion.

BigSmith came about things the right way. Saying we are having a complete study around this compound done and will post result for the world to see.

I have used MassFX, I have seen results as well. I am not bashing AX or MassFX in any way, shape or form. I just see questions geared toward the addition of consumer knowledge a good thing.

So basically, you sir are a fool. Way to sink to bb.com standards.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I just abhor his way of trying to come across as if he's doing it for us, when clearly its in his best interest to do so. .

well i am really sorry you think that.

what can i do though, people are always going to think that

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Was there any disclosure as to the results of PA's findings with JW? Please show me, where the threads are and where the closure / coming clean is, cause I for one don't see them. It's nice to talk about how much PA's doing for the consumer but when do we ever get results / explanations / proof as to the findings? Are any of you more certain now, what exactly is in JW than before the PA hunt?

i did disclose my findings with alri, with fitnfirm

it was my conclusion that their product most likely contained
6-dehydromethyltestosterone

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Some people just hate B.S. and will call it whenever they think they see it. That doesn't mean they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart, but it still ends up helping the consumer.

i could not have put it better myself, thank you very much

 

[Patrick Arnold]

PA, I seem to remember before 11-oxo was released you were on bb.com talking about how stupid it was to hype it like AX was doing with 3-AD yet from what I have gathered from all your threads latley you are doing the same thing except at your competitors expense.

well you gathered wrong

why don't you read the threads. i maintain a very matter of fact attitude

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Since there're a lot of well known, smart people on this thread... I had a question.... I'm leaning out on a recomp/maintenence plan and I'm really upset over something during my day and instead of eating junkfood, I'm splurging on organic berries... Is it going to effect weightloss a lot if for one feeding period I eat a LOT of berries? I may have a lot of protein (grilled chicken) and healthy fats afterwards too... Is this that bad to do? Thanks! I'm 100% serious BTW.

some berries are lower in carbs then others. i think blueberries are supposed to be good

just go on the internet and find out what the nutritional facts are and then weigh your portions

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Thanks neoborn... I was reading about fruits low impact as far as insulin response because fructose needs to pass through the liver and something about the water content and fiber content also slowing things down and so forth...L

avoid fructose as much as you can. it leads to insulin resistance and can stimulate lipogenesis

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Does that really matter? You buy a product to get results. And that is what you get, even if it's just a placebo effect.
..

this kind of dangerous thinking has been a rationalizing technique for unscrupulous supplement companies for ages

shame

 

[Patrick Arnold]

It's good with any product, food, clothing, automobiles, whatever. I like you and mace, but you both jump to quickly on the defensive. Maybe if you take the time and just refute what PA has said and not only come out with: "well consumers seem to like this" than things would be resolved more easily and in a quicker fashion.
.

nothing would take the wind out of my sails and make me look like a horse's ass more than simply refuting my accusations. in this thread all they have to do is support the claims they make in their ad with science and i would say "well, ok then"


but they avoid doing this, and the reason has to be because they lied about everything. and then they defend by saying it sells great and they are going to do a study and everyone is getting massive. who is to say all that is not a lie too?

its like michael jackson being accused of molesting your kid and then refuting it by saying how happy your kid is hanging out at neverland and that your accusations are purely jealousy because your kid would rather be there than at your house

 

[ShadowJack]

its not a prohormone to androstenedione

No - of course it isn't. I'm thinking it likely converts to 6-hydroxytest, no?