260mg TRT ADD ON? (1-andro, 4,andro, (4AD) Diol?

[thebigt]

When I say in range I'm talking about the range that would be considered naturally achievable, so less then 1200. Your boost up to 1100 is massive, but it wouldn't be considered supraphysiological testosterone. So what I'm getting at is I don't think the 4ad or 4 Andros have the ability to induce those types of levels one would consider enhanced from a testosterone standpoint. So if person was running 300mg of testosterone his levels would likely be 2000 or higher, at that point I don't think the 4ad would continue to raise testosterone levels and even if they did, I don't think there's much of a difference from a muscle building standpoint between a 2200 and a 2600 reading.

Now someone in your position might say, ok I have limited testosterone supply. Maybe il do 50mg of test per week and add the 4ad to pick up the slack. Save the extra testosterone for down the road and once you have enough maybe run 250-300 for 6 weeks for a nice little boost

i started trt in 2008 at 200mg per week. my average range was 750-800. around 5 years ago my testosterone dose was cut in half, surprisingly my total test level isn't all that much lower at 100mg per week-650....it is what it is.

 

[Smont]

I remember reading through other forums of guys getting 400 mg per week prescribed test cypionate but only using 200 so you can only imagine what the Blast would be like lol.. talk about a never ending supply.. and even as they use their stock pile they still can regularly call in their refills as they go along

Its incredible, my sweet spot is 140-150mg. But on 125 I'm fine, if I could get a Dr. To prescribe me 300-400 I'd be in heaven, just stocking up for blasts

 

[Smont]

Lol...yeah I've always had concerns about PN since their bunk Sdrol and the guy on here who's liver went man down on a minimal Lgd dose from them.

To get liver failure from steroids is incredibly hard to do, you would need to blast orals for years. The liver is so regenerative it's amazing. When someone has a horror story of liver failure I bet my house it's more likely they were abusing recreational drugs and alcohol alongside their cycles or just blasting orals most of the year

 

[Smont]

i started trt in 2008 at 200mg per week. my average range was 750-800. around 5 years ago my testosterone dose was cut in half, surprisingly my total test level isn't all that much lower at 100mg per week-650....it is what it is.

At 750-800 they cut your dose in half?
I would have fought that or looked for a new Dr.

 

[thebigt]

At 750-800 they cut your dose in half?
I would have fought that or looked for a new Dr.

i was diagnosed with polycythemia...my VA doctor took me off trt altogether for over 4 months and then reinstated it at half dose--since i don't use illegal AAS i was stuck with natty supps-it wasn't fun. @Chuck Diesel did me a solid and hooked me up with a boatload of his products. i'm sure @Rocket3015 remembers this.

 

[Smont]

i was diagnosed with polycythemia...my VA doctor took me off trt altogether for over 4 months and then reinstated it at half dose--since i don't use illegal AAS i was stuck with natty supps-it wasn't fun. @Chuck Diesel did me a solid and hooked me up with a boatload of his products. i'm sure @Rocket3015 remembers this.

Gotcha, well, I guess you were right on the money when you said it is what it is

 

[JoePaul39]

i don't have legal access to additional testosterone--adding in 4 andro is as good as it gets for me.

since iconic has dc'ed alpha four i guess as soon as strong and dps sell out i will be SOL!!!

i think Iron Mag Labs manufactures a 4 andro cream.

 

[JoePaul39]

I have mentioned numerous times my love for 4-AD diol and wanting to try stacking it with testosterone 300mg weekly to see if there is synergy.. most will say No because the 4-AD converts to test at a low rate which you are already injecting.. but this post says other wise

4-Androstenediol is 95% as potent as
testosterone on injection. Since nowhere
near 95% is converted, more like 10% or less, the
anabolic results are mostly achieved
by 4-AD itself not by the small amount
that’s converted to testosterone.
As an illustration, with Androsol we elevate
4-AD levels by 3000 ng/dL or more but T levels
by only about 300 ng/dL. That small T elevation is nowhere near enough to account for the gains that users experience. 300 ng/dL has very little noticeable effect on anyone with normal T in the first place. But the effect
of Androsol is very noticeable.

Post your results up here when you run it and if you have some success I will probably buy some for my trt too!

 

[thebigt]

Gotcha, well, I guess you were right on the money when you said it is what it is

lol...sometimes it seems that a large portion of my life is documented on this forum.

 

[thebigt]

i think Iron Mag Labs manufactures a 4 andro cream.

i'll pass

 

[Smont]

lol...sometimes it seems that a large portion of my life is documented on this forum.

Same here lol. I don't do social media like Facebook or Instagram and Snapchat. This is literally the only platform I talk about anything that has to do with my life

Such a loser

 

[jim2509]

To get liver failure from steroids is incredibly hard to do, you would need to blast orals for years. The liver is so regenerative it's amazing. When someone has a horror story of liver failure I bet my house it's more likely they were abusing recreational drugs and alcohol alongside their cycles or just blasting orals most of the year

Quite possibly. I can't recall him disclosing anything else other than his urine went brown and his liver enzymes were out of whack. He seemed to recover following cessation of taking it. Maybe there where other factors. I do recall reading a study a while ago where someone taking rad 140 ended up in a state and they could find no evidence of alcohol induced issues. Who knows?

 

[Rocket3015]

i was diagnosed with polycythemia...my VA doctor took me off trt altogether for over 4 months and then reinstated it at half dose--since i don't use illegal AAS i was stuck with natty supps-it wasn't fun. @Chuck Diesel did me a solid and hooked me up with a boatload of his products. i'm sure @Rocket3015 remembers this.

Yes I do. I wish we could get @Chuck Diesel around here a little more, he is a pretty smart cookie!

 

[Smont]

Quite possibly. I can't recall him disclosing anything else other than his urine went brown and his liver enzymes were out of whack. He seemed to recover following cessation of taking it. Maybe there where other factors. I do recall reading a study a while ago where someone taking rad 140 ended up in a state and they could find no evidence of alcohol induced issues. Who knows?

To put it in perspective, anadrol is one of the more "toxic" steroids and is used on children at doses up to 300mg a day for 6 months at a time and there Not dieing nor are they going into liver failure. If someone came on here saying they were taking half that dose for 2 months people would be freaking out and telling them there gonna die.

I'm certainly not recommending either of those as cycle options, but just showing how resilient the liver is. Most of the "golden era" guys ran dbol almost year round.

 

[jim2509]

To put it in perspective, anadrol is one of the more "toxic" steroids and is used on children at doses up to 300mg a day for 6 months at a time and there Not dieing nor are they going into liver failure. If someone came on here saying they were taking half that dose for 2 months people would be freaking out and telling them there gonna die.

I'm certainly not recommending either of those as cycle options, but just showing how resilient the liver is. Most of the "golden era" guys ran dbol almost year round.

Yeah is strange isn't it when you consider the AAS previously used in medical treatments without issues. Could be that some of these 'sarms' are actually something else entirely or contaminated? Recent study in UK showed alot were multiple compounds sold as Sarms.

 

[Smont]

i was diagnosed with polycythemia...my VA doctor took me off trt altogether for over 4 months and then reinstated it at half dose--since i don't use illegal AAS i was stuck with natty supps-it wasn't fun. @Chuck Diesel did me a solid and hooked me up with a boatload of his products. i'm sure @Rocket3015 remembers this.

Some things I use to do when my rbc crept up on cycle. To be clear I would always wait till it got a few points over the range. My Dr told me that a few points over isint as bad as some would have you believe, ppl living in high altitudes have a normal RBC higher then what most Dr. Would say is ok and they are perfectly healthy.

But before donating blood I would increase cardio, eliminate my b-complex vitamin and then use something to chelate iron (there's a couple options for that) give that 2 weeks and it was usually enough do drop it a point or 2. If that was the case I'd continue those things for the rest of the cycle, if they didn't work I would donate.

I've only had to donate 2 times in my life if I remember correctly

 

[KvanH]

Yeah is strange isn't it when you consider the AAS previously used in medical treatments without issues. Could be that some of these 'sarms' are actually something else entirely or contaminated? Recent study in UK showed alot were multiple compounds sold as Sarms.

If we are talking about the same study, I think they found that only about 30% of the products they tested were exactly what was on the label. Many were a combination of different sarms and some were another sarm completely. There's probably complete bunk and something that's different entirely, than what says on the label on the market too.

 

[Smont]

Yeah is strange isn't it when you consider the AAS previously used in medical treatments without issues. Could be that some of these 'sarms' are actually something else entirely or contaminated? Recent study in UK showed alot were multiple compounds sold as Sarms.

I honestly think the stories of sarms causing liver problems are just bullshit, either the product was contaminated with a non anabolic whatever substance it may be, or The person had pre existing condition. I'm not saying I'm right, I just don't believe any sarms or steroids even in massive doses will cause liver problems unless there heavily abused for extended periods of time.

Again I could be wrong, but until one or two oral cycles makes my liver or someone I knows liver fail I'm not buying it

 

[BBiceps]

I remember reading through other forums of guys getting 400 mg per week prescribed test cypionate but only using 200 so you can only imagine what the Blast would be like lol.. talk about a never ending supply.. and even as they use their stock pile they still can regularly call in their refills as they go along

That’s me

 

[thebigt]

Yes I do. I wish we could get @Chuck Diesel around here a little more, he is a pretty smart cookie!

chuck is a good guy--veteran too!!!

 

[JoePaul39]

Just ordered 4 andro cream by Iron Mag Labs to add as a cruise to my trt. Gonna get bloodwork after three weeks to see if it increases total t. Also have a transdermal Eli Andro /Androsterone Ultra hard will run with it and test my free t to see if the DHT brings its up. If successful I will then test lipids to see if it screws them up too much which would mean these compounds would be more suitable on a cycle rather than a cruise.

 

[Rocket3015]

Just ordered 4 andro cream by Iron Mag Labs to add as a cruise to my trt. Gonna get bloodwork after three weeks to see if it increases total t. Also have a transdermal Eli Andro /Androsterone Ultra hard will run with it and test my free t to see if the DHT brings its up. If successful I will then test lipids to see if it screws them up too much which would mean these compounds would be more suitable on a cycle rather than a cruise.

Nice research !

 

[Smont]

Just ordered 4 andro cream by Iron Mag Labs to add as a cruise to my trt. Gonna get bloodwork after three weeks to see if it increases total t. Also have a transdermal Eli Andro /Androsterone Ultra hard will run with it and test my free t to see if the DHT brings its up. If successful I will then test lipids to see if it screws them up too much which would mean these compounds would be more suitable on a cycle rather than a cruise.

I'm curious, even if the 4 Andro raises your total t, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to just add a little more testosterone to your trt and accomplish the same thing?I don't remember if we discussed this already

 

[Smont]

The other products should definitely raise free t and probably dht as well

 

[JoePaul39]

I'm curious, even if the 4 Andro raises your total t, wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to just add a little more testosterone to your trt and accomplish the same thing?I don't remember if we discussed this already

Like @BigT I don’t wish to buy my test on the black market illegally so have no other access. In order for me to keep using the 4 andro I test at a 700 normally and would want a bump to at least 1100 or 1200 or so.

 

[Smont]

Like @BigT I don’t wish to buy my test on the black market illegally so have no other access. In order for me to keep using the 4 andro I test at a 700 normally and would want a bump to at least 1100 or 1200 or so.

Got it, I must have missed that part.

 

[Smont]

So 260mg of test only puts you into the 700's

 

[Smont]

If that's the case, and you haven't tried this before, a little experiment you might want to try out is grabbing some slin pins and doing 20-25mg daily. If that works out like it seems to for a lot of ppl you would have a bunch of extra test left over every couple months

 

[JoePaul39]

So 260mg of test only puts you into the 700's

The OP is the one 260 mg test. I am only on 160 mg a week. What about you bro?

 

[Smont]

The OP is the one 260 mg test. I am only on 160 mg a week. What about you bro?

140-150 depending on if I. Using 200mg/ml cyp or 250mg/ml enth. Which is 20 or 25mg daily

Currently on 140 cyp and eclipse from Apex alchemy (I'm logging the Apex product for them)

 

[Smont]

Don't remember off top of my head but 140-150 split daily puts me around 900 total and 37e2

 

[Pswain78]

Wow bro that’s really impressive! Adding 6 quality pounds from epiandro sounds awesome! I was always under the impression that epiandro was a two step precursor to DHT? Did adding it to your TRT dose give you any kind of hair shedding or higher DHT sides? Reason I ask is because I’m on a generous TRT dose through my Doctor basically bloodwork falling sometimes 1200- 1500 usually in the middle.. did you feel that epiandro gave you more muscle fullness and strength as well as size? Also are there any side effects from the epiandro like anxiety or feeling too amped up? I would appreciate all the feedback! I’m kinda torn now between epiandro or 1-Andro?

I have been balding since I was 25 and now 43, so I am not worried about it if it did cause any. My blood work every 6 months shows my test levels around 900. I didn’t get any anxiety from it.

 

[thebigt]

Just ordered 4 andro cream by Iron Mag Labs to add as a cruise to my trt. Gonna get bloodwork after three weeks to see if it increases total t. Also have a transdermal Eli Andro /Androsterone Ultra hard will run with it and test my free t to see if the DHT brings its up. If successful I will then test lipids to see if it screws them up too much which would mean these compounds would be more suitable on a cycle rather than a cruise.

good luck!!!

i am running alpha four and ultra hard right now....also just threw in alpha stano caps pre-workout.