260mg TRT ADD ON? (1-andro, 4,andro, (4AD) Diol?

bradleyt1

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Hey guys so as the name suggest on a generous dose of TRT 240- 260mg depends on blood levels 1,400ish total 24-36 hours post shot.. shots split 120 - 130mg twice per week.. any how, what would you guys suggest as boost add on. Not increasing current test dose.. there is 4-Dhea or fusion androtest 4-Diol which I’m very interested in as it’s a 1-step precursor.. I have used it before and I think 4-diol has its own effect on its own because it felt different than running test.. especially as maybe a pre workout dose.. or there is 1-Dhea which would get me an entirely different compound all together ( 1-test, 1-androstenedione/ 1-Diol) wish predator nutrition had a legit 1-AD clone.. although they do have oral 1-test (Nano 1-t)
Any ways, would love for you guys to chime in and give me your thoughts.. thanks again guys!!
 
Smont

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I wouldn't use 4ad type stuff, it's not going to raise your testosterone any higher and will increase your estrogen levels. I'm not a fan of the 1andro Type stuff, it makes a lot of ppl feel crappy and can cause some Ed issues for ppl

I really like epiandro to boost trt. 600+ oral or 200+ transdermal. Increase strength and aggression, positive effects on mood and libido.

And lgd 4033 if you wanna dip into sarms. For building muscle that's going to be better then the andros
 
Ironpirate

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Yeah the 4ad won't do you much good since you are already at twice a normal Young healthy person's levels. I doubt your body would want to go through the trouble of converting it, our bodies are weak, just so you know the androtest is 25mg 4adiol per cap, it's a 125mg blend. The 1 andro of any type is great for bulking and strength.
 

jim2509

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Yeah the 4ad won't do you much good since you are already at twice a normal Young healthy person's levels. I doubt your body would want to go through the trouble of converting it, our bodies are weak, just so you know the androtest is 25mg 4adiol per cap, it's a 125mg blend. The 1 andro of any type is great for bulking and strength.
Yeah I heard it's about 3.5 mg of test per cap so even if it was run 3 x a day you'd have a ball park figure of around 77mg of test a week...not exactly a huge amount and it's costly.
 
Smont

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Yeah I heard it's about 3.5 mg of test per cap so even if it was run 3 x a day you'd have a ball park figure of around 77mg of test a week...not exactly a huge amount and it's costly.
All these things ppl call a test base, should be called a estrogen base. None of them raise testosterone enough, but most of not all the 4ad/4 Andro products raise your estrogen to a healthy range or even a little above giving you the benifits your looking for
 

beefyfan

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I wouldn't use 4ad type stuff, it's not going to raise your testosterone any higher and will increase your estrogen levels. I'm not a fan of the 1andro Type stuff, it makes a lot of ppl feel crappy and can cause some Ed issues for ppl

I really like epiandro to boost trt. 600+ oral or 200+ transdermal. Increase strength and aggression, positive effects on mood and libido.

And lgd 4033 if you wanna dip into sarms. For building muscle that's going to be better then the andros
Totally agree with adding epiandro at 600mg's.
 

bradleyt1

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Wouldn’t epiandro just be worse because it’s just adding to even more DHT conversion? I already experienced hair thinning on test but refuse to even try finasteride. Plus does epiandro even build muscle? Isn’t it more of a cosmetic hardening agent type of a compound? What about 19-nor dhea? Or even Decalone by fusion supplements which is 19-NorDiol the one step precursor.. very anabolic minimal androgenic.
 
Smont

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Wouldn’t epiandro just be worse because it’s just adding to even more DHT conversion? I already experienced hair thinning on test but refuse to even try finasteride. Plus does epiandro even build muscle? Isn’t it more of a cosmetic hardening agent type of a compound? What about 19-nor dhea? Or even Decalone by fusion supplements which is 19-NorDiol the one step precursor.. very anabolic minimal androgenic.
All steroids build muscle, anything that increases your strength and aggression in the gym is going to help you lift heavier and work out harder in turn helping you build more muscle given that you're eating for the task, yes there's a higher risk for your hair thinning. Epi doesn't do that to me till I hit super high doses.

At the end of the day there are no bulking or cutting drugs, your diet determines those two things. If your super lean single digit bodyfat then yes the typical cutting steroids have better cosmetic effect twords cutting. But if you're eating for the goal no matter what the goal may be, the most important drugs are going to be the ones that agree with you and give you the least side effects.

You can bulk on winstrol and you can cut on dbol and deca
 
Smont

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And if you're prone to male pattern baldness, every steroid is going to make your hair fall out faster regardless of whether or not it's a DHT. If you're destined to be bald steroids will make you go bald faster
 

JoePaul39

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I know @hairygrandpa has experience on this issue with the andros and is on trt, care to chime in? I think he said he added transdermal 4 andro to his trt once and it nearly doubled his test levels.
 
Smont

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I know @hairygrandpa has experience on this issue with the andros and is on trt, care to chime in? I think he said he added transdermal 4 andro to his trt once and it nearly doubled his test levels.
I was under the impression he passed away
 

jim2509

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I was under the impression he passed away
Really? Didn't know that. I remember his posts about heart issues but thought maybe he'd just left the board. He left pretty much when covid was running amok as well.
Sad if true.
 
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KvanH

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I know @hairygrandpa has experience on this issue with the andros and is on trt, care to chime in? I think he said he added transdermal 4 andro to his trt once and it nearly doubled his test levels.
I think it was @thebigt . Or maybe they both have had this experience.
 
Smont

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Really? Didn't know that. I remember his posts about heart issues but thought maybe he'd just left the board. He left pretty much when covid was running amok as well.
Sad if true.
Hasn't made a post in over a year so I assume the worst
 

bradleyt1

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Well I can tell you guys for sure that I have ran 4-AndrosteneDiol (fusion real 4-AD) with test in the past but back then wasn’t as meticulous with checking bloodwork to see if there was elevated test more from the 4-AD on too of test cypionate.. but I will say this.. I do strongly believe that the 4-AD metabolite itself is where majority of the effects are coming from.. if you look back at power form around 2002 and so guys would run 4-Diol solo by itself and there test levels would t exactly be insanely high but they would put a **** ton of size and weight and I think that’s because the 4-AD levels in the blood are much higher.. after all testosterone isn’t the only anabolic hormone.. in fact I think most of the one step precursors ( like original 1-AD and 19-nor diol and Dione all had effects on their own prior to conversion.. plus andro test gave me a different feeling compared to testosterone.. like more aggression mentally driven if that makes sense? I’ll try to find the article about 4-AD
 
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Well I can tell you guys for sure that I have ran 4-AndrosteneDiol (fusion real 4-AD) with test in the past but back then wasn’t as meticulous with checking bloodwork to see if there was elevated test more from the 4-AD on too of test cypionate.. but I will say this.. I do strongly believe that the 4-AD metabolite itself is where majority of the effects are coming from.. if you look back at power form around 2002 and so guys would run 4-Diol solo by itself and there test levels would t exactly be insanely high but they would put a **** ton of size and weight and I think that’s because the 4-AD levels in the blood are much higher.. after all testosterone isn’t the only anabolic hormone.. in fact I think most of the one step precursors ( like original 1-AD and 19-nor diol and Dione all had effects on their own prior to conversion.. plus andro test gave me a different feeling compared to testosterone.. like more aggression mentally driven if that makes sense? I’ll try to find the article about 4-AD
Its the estrogen, estrogen makes you big and strong. It's why powerlifters let there estrogen run up to rediculous numbers. Estrogen also increases the anabolic response to exercise
 

JoePaul39

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Well I can tell you guys for sure that I have ran 4-AndrosteneDiol (fusion real 4-AD) with test in the past but back then wasn’t as meticulous with checking bloodwork to see if there was elevated test more from the 4-AD on too of test cypionate.. but I will say this.. I do strongly believe that the 4-AD metabolite itself is where majority of the effects are coming from.. if you look back at power form around 2002 and so guys would run 4-Diol solo by itself and there test levels would t exactly be insanely high but they would put a **** ton of size and weight and I think that’s because the 4-AD levels in the blood are much higher.. after all testosterone isn’t the only anabolic hormone.. in fact I think most of the one step precursors ( like original 1-AD and 19-nor diol and Dione all had effects on their own prior to conversion.. plus andro test gave me a different feeling compared to testosterone.. like more aggression mentally driven if that makes sense? I’ll try to find the article about 4-AD
You plan on cruising on this in addition to your trt or just cycling. It?
 
thebigt

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I think it was @thebigt . Or maybe they both have had this experience.
yup, i can confirm thru blood test that combo of 4-andro/epiandro did in fact nearly double my trt baseline.
 
Smont

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yup, i can confirm thru blood test that combo of 4-andro/epiandro did in fact nearly double my trt baseline.
Did doubling your baseline take you above 1200, that would be more beneficial to know then doubling. Like if your baseline is 500 and you double it your still in range. If your baseline was 900 and you double it that's a whole new territory and going to help with gains
 
thebigt

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Did doubling your baseline take you above 1200, that would be more beneficial to know then doubling. Like if your baseline is 500 and you double it your still in range. If your baseline was 900 and you double it that's a whole new territory and going to help with gains
650 up to 1100.
i'm 63 and don't use testosterone other than my trt dose of 100mg weekly...trust me, 1100 was way more noticeable for me than it would be for someone who regularly uses AAS.
 
Smont

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650 up to 1100.
i'm 63 and don't use testosterone other than my trt dose of 100mg weekly...trust me, 1100 was way more noticeable for me than it would be for someone who regularly uses AAS.
That makes a lot more sense, thank you for clarifying
 
thebigt

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That makes a lot more sense, thank you for clarifying
i get great gains from 4-andro/epi/androsterone added to me measly trt dose....

thanks for being so respectful, much appreciated.
 

jim2509

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Well I can tell you guys for sure that I have ran 4-AndrosteneDiol (fusion real 4-AD) with test in the past but back then wasn’t as meticulous with checking bloodwork to see if there was elevated test more from the 4-AD on too of test cypionate.. but I will say this.. I do strongly believe that the 4-AD metabolite itself is where majority of the effects are coming from.. if you look back at power form around 2002 and so guys would run 4-Diol solo by itself and there test levels would t exactly be insanely high but they would put a **** ton of size and weight and I think that’s because the 4-AD levels in the blood are much higher.. after all testosterone isn’t the only anabolic hormone.. in fact I think most of the one step precursors ( like original 1-AD and 19-nor diol and Dione all had effects on their own prior to conversion.. plus andro test gave me a different feeling compared to testosterone.. like more aggression mentally driven if that makes sense? I’ll try to find the article about 4-AD
Interesting info thanks. I recall reading a review on their 4-Diol (Androtest) and some dude saying he thought it was Dbol as he got similar gains....blew up. As @Smont said....probably estrogen but 4-Diol having its own mechanism of action is Interesting.
 

JoePaul39

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So 4AD on top of trt should increase test more because it is a one step coversion unlike 4 andro that is a 2 step conversion ???
 
Smont

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Pi
So 4AD on top of trt should increase test more because it is a one step coversion unlike 4 andro that is a 2 step conversion ???
Possibly, but you could also just take a little more testosterone and get the direct effect for less money.
 
thebigt

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any and all lol. just dont wanna be researching anything by hi tech
:p
there are 2 different conversations going on....old school 4-ad is banned and it was a 1 step conversion...4-andro is still legal and is a 2 step conversion. forum sponsor strong supplement shop still has some of the now dc'ed iconic formulations alpha four-4-andro that i recommend...

hope this helped?
 
Smont

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i get great gains from 4-andro/epi/androsterone added to me measly trt dose....

thanks for being so respectful, much appreciated.
Do you find any benefit in that as opposed to just increasing your trt dose and adding epi/androsterone?

I'm just curious. Do you feel that the 4 Andro provided something testosterone didn't.
 
thebigt

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Do you find any benefit in that as opposed to just increasing your trt dose and adding epi/androsterone?

I'm just curious. Do you feel that the 4 Andro provided something testosterone didn't.
i don't have legal access to additional testosterone--adding in 4 andro is as good as it gets for me.

since iconic has dc'ed alpha four i guess as soon as strong and dps sell out i will be SOL!!!
 
Smont

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i don't have legal access to additional testosterone--adding in 4 andro is as good as it gets for me.

since iconic has dc'ed alpha four i guess as soon as strong and dps sell out i will be SOL!!!
Ok cool. Well I hope there not going to ban all the Andros next. Im a big fan of epiandro. Especially when I need a boost without actually running a cycle... I mean I guess anything hormonal that's not trt makes it technically a cycle but you know what I mean lol
 

johnny412

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there are 2 different conversations going on....old school 4-ad is banned and it was a 1 step conversion...4-andro is still legal and is a 2 step conversion. forum sponsor strong supplement shop still has some of the now dc'ed iconic formulations alpha four-4-andro that i recommend...

hope this helped?
yessir thank you! :)
 
thebigt

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Ok cool. Well I hope there not going to ban all the Andros next. Im a big fan of epiandro. Especially when I need a boost without actually running a cycle... I mean I guess anything hormonal that's not trt makes it technically a cycle but you know what I mean lol
i'm starting a alpha four/ultra hard run tomorrow-
if unlimited testosterone were available legally i would be all over it...my concern is legality.
 

bradleyt1

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I have mentioned numerous times my love for 4-AD diol and wanting to try stacking it with testosterone 300mg weekly to see if there is synergy.. most will say No because the 4-AD converts to test at a low rate which you are already injecting.. but this post says other wise

4-Androstenediol is 95% as potent as
testosterone on injection. Since nowhere
near 95% is converted, more like 10% or less, the
anabolic results are mostly achieved
by 4-AD itself not by the small amount
that’s converted to testosterone.
As an illustration, with Androsol we elevate
4-AD levels by 3000 ng/dL or more but T levels
by only about 300 ng/dL. That small T elevation is nowhere near enough to account for the gains that users experience. 300 ng/dL has very little noticeable effect on anyone with normal T in the first place. But the effect
of Androsol is very noticeable.
 
KvanH

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Interesting info thanks. I recall reading a review on their 4-Diol (Androtest) and some dude saying he thought it was Dbol as he got similar gains....blew up. As @Smont said....probably estrogen but 4-Diol having its own mechanism of action is Interesting.
I don't think most of the reviews on Pred's website are real. Especially on their own products. Nothing to back this up, lol. But just reading them, does not look authentic to me.
 
Smont

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I have mentioned numerous times my love for 4-AD diol and wanting to try stacking it with testosterone 300mg weekly to see if there is synergy.. most will say No because the 4-AD converts to test at a low rate which you are already injecting.. but this post says other wise

4-Androstenediol is 95% as potent as
testosterone on injection. Since nowhere
near 95% is converted, more like 10% or less, the
anabolic results are mostly achieved
by 4-AD itself not by the small amount
that’s converted to testosterone.
As an illustration, with Androsol we elevate
4-AD levels by 3000 ng/dL or more but T levels
by only about 300 ng/dL. That small T elevation is nowhere near enough to account for the gains that users experience. 300 ng/dL has very little noticeable effect on anyone with normal T in the first place. But the effect
of Androsol is very noticeable.
Im all for experimentation in finding things out for ourselves, so go for it and see what happens.

But if you can, do yourself a favor and pick your testosterone dosage, use just that for 4 weeks or so and make notes, calories, training, bw ect. Then add the 4ad and keep training and diet the same. Then you know for certain how much the 4ad changed your results, if you were to start with both or kicked up your training or calories once you add 4ad you wouldn't know how much each is doing. I would definitely follow along if you logged it. I do believe that everything has a place. In thebigt's situation he doesn't have a choice to add more testosterone and 4ad was his way around that. But there's variables in the epiandro and androsterone. Yes the 4ad raised his t levels but they were still in range so we don't necessarily know if the gains came from that little boost in test or the other products.

While almost doubling your testosterone on bloodwork is a Big difference (650-1100)

That 550 increase wouldn't be a lot if it took you from 4000-4550.

Get what I'm saying here.

Either way. I'm starting to get interested in weather or not the 4ad has effects on its own but I have a feeling it's not much because we didn't see a lot of ppl using it solo with great results. But again, idk anything for certain and I could be completely wrong
 
Smont

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I don't think most of the reviews on Pred's website are real. Especially on their own products. Nothing to back this up, lol. But just reading them, does not look authentic to me.
Ya I agreed with that. Most websites have very fake looking reviews.

Kevin H-
Best stuff ever, gained 11 lbs

Tom B-
Most amazing results ever!

Ryan F-
I gained 10lbs and no side effects, can't wait to use this again.

You always see these cookie cutter looking reviews that just look too simple to be someone's review lol
 
KvanH

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Ya I agreed with that. Most websites have very fake looking reviews.

Kevin H-
Best stuff ever, gained 11 lbs

Tom B-
Most amazing results ever!

Ryan F-
I gained 10lbs and no side effects, can't wait to use this again.

You always see these cookie cutter looking reviews that just look too simple to be someone's review lol
My personal favorite was on their own brand's natural anabolic product, where Laxogenin was the main ingridient and it has raving reviews and one of them said "This is so strong with zero sides. No need to use prohormones anymore". LOL!
 

jim2509

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Ya I agreed with that. Most websites have very fake looking reviews.

Kevin H-
Best stuff ever, gained 11 lbs

Tom B-
Most amazing results ever!

Ryan F-
I gained 10lbs and no side effects, can't wait to use this again.

You always see these cookie cutter looking reviews that just look too simple to be someone's review lol
Lol...yeah I've always had concerns about PN since their bunk Sdrol and the guy on here who's liver went man down on a minimal Lgd dose from them.
 

Pswain78

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I just finished 8 weeks of epiandro at 600mgs with my trt dose and definitely would do it again. I leaned out a bit, added 6#’s and hardened up. I felt great the whole time. Honestly I wish I could run it year round at 900mgs.
 
thebigt

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Im all for experimentation in finding things out for ourselves, so go for it and see what happens.

But if you can, do yourself a favor and pick your testosterone dosage, use just that for 4 weeks or so and make notes, calories, training, bw ect. Then add the 4ad and keep training and diet the same. Then you know for certain how much the 4ad changed your results, if you were to start with both or kicked up your training or calories once you add 4ad you wouldn't know how much each is doing. I would definitely follow along if you logged it. I do believe that everything has a place. In thebigt's situation he doesn't have a choice to add more testosterone and 4ad was his way around that. But there's variables in the epiandro and androsterone. Yes the 4ad raised his t levels but they were still in range so we don't necessarily know if the gains came from that little boost in test or the other products.

While almost doubling your testosterone on bloodwork is a Big difference (650-1100)

That 550 increase wouldn't be a lot if it took you from 4000-4550.

Get what I'm saying here.

Either way. I'm starting to get interested in weather or not the 4ad has effects on its own but I have a feeling it's not much because we didn't see a lot of ppl using it solo with great results. But again, idk anything for certain and I could be completely wrong
it all depends on what you consider in range...i looked it up-the normal range for a male over 60 [i'm 63] is 300-450. trt puts me a little above that but 1,100 for me made a huge difference... And yes, i agree with the epi/androsterone accessment since i have never ran 4-andro solo.

intelligent conversation here, i am enjoying it.
 

-RONIN-

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Lol...yeah I've always had concerns about PN since their bunk Sdrol and the guy on here who's liver went man down on a minimal Lgd dose from them.
And what about their prices??? These guys are insane.
 

bradleyt1

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I just finished 8 weeks of epiandro at 600mgs with my trt dose and definitely would do it again. I leaned out a bit, added 6#’s and hardened up. I felt great the whole time. Honestly I wish I could run it year round at 900mgs.
Wow bro that’s really impressive! Adding 6 quality pounds from epiandro sounds awesome! I was always under the impression that epiandro was a two step precursor to DHT? Did adding it to your TRT dose give you any kind of hair shedding or higher DHT sides? Reason I ask is because I’m on a generous TRT dose through my Doctor basically bloodwork falling sometimes 1200- 1500 usually in the middle.. did you feel that epiandro gave you more muscle fullness and strength as well as size? Also are there any side effects from the epiandro like anxiety or feeling too amped up? I would appreciate all the feedback! I’m kinda torn now between epiandro or 1-Andro?
 
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it all depends on what you consider in range...i looked it up-the normal range for a male over 60 [i'm 63] is 300-450. trt puts me a little above that but 1,100 for me made a huge difference... And yes, i agree with the epi/androsterone accessment since i have never ran 4-andro solo.

intelligent conversation here, i am enjoying it.
When I say in range I'm talking about the range that would be considered naturally achievable, so less then 1200. Your boost up to 1100 is massive, but it wouldn't be considered supraphysiological testosterone. So what I'm getting at is I don't think the 4ad or 4 Andros have the ability to induce those types of levels one would consider enhanced from a testosterone standpoint. So if person was running 300mg of testosterone his levels would likely be 2000 or higher, at that point I don't think the 4ad would continue to raise testosterone levels and even if they did, I don't think there's much of a difference from a muscle building standpoint between a 2200 and a 2600 reading.

Now someone in your position might say, ok I have limited testosterone supply. Maybe il do 50mg of test per week and add the 4ad to pick up the slack. Save the extra testosterone for down the road and once you have enough maybe run 250-300 for 6 weeks for a nice little boost
 
Smont

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My buddy gets 200per week for his trt but feels fine on 100mg. So he regularly runs 100per week and does little 6 week mini cycles every time he has enough to testosterone saved up
 

bradleyt1

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My buddy gets 200per week for his trt but feels fine on 100mg. So he regularly runs 100per week and does little 6 week mini cycles every time he has enough to testosterone saved up
I remember reading through other forums of guys getting 400 mg per week prescribed test cypionate but only using 200 so you can only imagine what the Blast would be like lol.. talk about a never ending supply.. and even as they use their stock pile they still can regularly call in their refills as they go along
 

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