23yo girl wants a 6pack - help!

Shared post from 'AnabolicMinds.com' by Dwight Schrute from thread 'Please Read!':

This forum is for the discussion of weight loss and not the use of illegal or research products that are NOT legal for consumption. Take that elsewhere.
 
pixiethree said:
Hey again - ill have a look into it.

I had alot of blood work done recently which came back with high testosterone, slightly sluggish adrenals and thyroid and vit d deficient.

Started taking vit d, iodine/selenium, magnesium and vit c....

Will test again in a few months....
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What were your thyroid levels, and how did your bloodwork determine "slightly sluggish" adrenals?
 
One way to spike your metabolism is refeeds. I suggest doing a refeed *adding 100 to 500 Cal's* once a week. This lets your body know there's plenty of fuel. Boost leptin, boost thyroid,ect ect. I hear a lot of "change your diet" in this thread. Why not just give the one you've been using a boost? Can come from carbs or w/e. Sense you're wanting ABS I suggest the refeed on a day you do ABS.
 
There is nothing wrong with using Clen if one so choose's but that is a personal choice, now that being said you might look into 3,3 diiodo-l-thyronine it does not seem to cause as much suppression of the thyroid from anecdotal evidence and falls in the supplement realm instead of research chemicals. Thyrocaps by SNS I am a big proponent of thyroid hormones myself especial in a case like yours where you have been operating in a caloric deficit for so long. Invalid Link Removed

Also I may have missed it in this thread but carb cycling might be worth a try for you.
 
going to agree with those who recommended squats/deadlifts/standing presses/chins/bench, focus on progressive overload and strength while maintaining your body mass. Get your squats/deadlifts up to 1.5x body weight and you will be much leaner. You should be able to do this in a year. Remember a stronger muscle, is usually a bigger muscle. I recommend starting strength program.

Also for macros I would say get in about 150g of high quality protein (animal sources or whey) spread evenly in approx 4-5 doses through the day, with about 3.5-4h between meals, and a minimum of approx 100g Carbs (white rice/sweet potatoes/potatoes) and about 40-50g Fats, keep measures weekly and adjust +/- 5-10g carbs /5g fat based on your results, (if losing weight increase to maintain it, if gaining a little bit then decrease it)
 
Waterbottle45 said:
going to agree with those who recommended squats/deadlifts/standing presses/chins/bench, focus on progressive overload and strength while maintaining your body mass. Get your squats/deadlifts up to 1.5x body weight and you will be much leaner. You should be able to do this in a year. Remember a stronger muscle, is usually a bigger muscle. I recommend starting strength program.

Also for macros I would say get in about 150g of high quality protein (animal sources or whey) spread evenly in approx 4-5 doses through the day, with about 3.5-4h between meals, and a minimum of approx 100g Carbs (white rice/sweet potatoes/potatoes) and about 40-50g Fats, keep measures weekly and adjust +/- 5-10g carbs /5g fat based on your results, (if losing weight increase to maintain it, if gaining a little bit then decrease it)
Click to expand...

Muscle strenght does not come with hypertrophy.
*looks at monks that can pull a semi truck with there wangs in Ripley's believe it or not then realizes its all leg strenght and they have chicken legs*

Strenght is mostly cns.
 
pyrobatt said:
Muscle strenght does not come with hypertrophy.
*looks at monks that can pull a semi truck with there wangs in Ripley's believe it or not then realizes its all leg strenght and they have chicken legs*
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But does wang strength equate to hypertrophy that is the real question?






















Freaking ADHD sorry my bad..
 
harbonah said:
But does wang strength equate to hypertrophy that is the real question?

Freaking ADHD sorry my bad..
Click to expand...

Ever seen a hitch on the back of a pickup truck? I'm guessing it was the same premise.
 
pyrobatt said:
Strenght is mostly cns.
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Are you trying to say that if your, individually, for the same person. If he adds 100lbs to his/her squat, in the same rep scheme (lets say 5s or 8s) and time under tension, that his muscle did not get stronger? I will agree that training singles is mostly CNS. But training in a 5-8 rep range and focusing on progressive overload will definitely add hypertrophy.

****, a skinny bastard that squats 100lbs, get his squat to 400, do you think his legs will still be so skinny? Look at top raw powerlifters in the 200 or 220 weight classes, they are built like bricks, is that all CNS?
 
Waterbottle45 said:
Are you trying to say that if your, individually, for the same person. If he adds 100lbs to his/her squat, in the same rep scheme (lets say 5s or 8s) and time under tension, that his muscle did not get stronger? I will agree that training singles is mostly CNS. But training in a 5-8 rep range and focusing on progressive overload will definitely add hypertrophy.

****, a skinny bastard that squats 100lbs, get his squat to 400, do you think his legs will still be so skinny? Look at top raw powerlifters in the 200 or 220 weight classes, they are built like bricks, is that all CNS?
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You can stay the same weight and up your squats +100 lbs. Same way you can train to do 1000 pull ups and be the same weight and same bodyfat. Takes time though. A lot of time. I will agree 6 to 12 reps is more stimulatory to hypertrophy but just because you can bench 3x your weight does not mean **** regarding staying leaner. Powerlifters in the 220 class are using so many drugs its not funny. 400lbs powerlifters are more likely to use less due to the sheer mass of them being built like hogs.

Lets leave the paid athletes out of this and talk about the normal people. Can you get hella stronger without increasing weight? Yes.
 
You can refuse to believe what you want, but it wont make it untrue. Do you think someone lifting in the 6-12 range will just get bigger muscles by repeatedly doing the same thing? No, he will need to add more tension to the muscle, by either increasing weight on the bar, increasing reps further, or lifting the weight slower. Muscle growth isn't as complicated as some people would want to believe. Its hard, but its not that complicated.

Lift, Recover (eat+rest) , lift a little harder (heavier, more TUT, more reps, whatever), recover, lift a little harder. Without change things up too much or you wont know what to increase.

Currently, I just lift a little heavier each week, using microloading on some lifts, increasing reps on others before increasing weight. My body weight is 210, and my waist is decreasing by .25-.5 Cm per week, while maintaining my weight.
 
Waterbottle45 said:
You can refuse to believe what you want, but it wont make it untrue. Do you think someone lifting in the 6-12 range will just get bigger muscles by repeatedly doing the same thing? No, he will need to add more tension to the muscle, by either increasing weight on the bar, increasing reps further, or lifting the weight slower. Muscle growth isn't as complicated as some people would want to believe. Its hard, but its not that complicated.

Lift, Recover (eat+rest) , lift a little harder (heavier, more TUT, more reps, whatever), recover, lift a little harder. Without change things up too much or you wont know what to increase.

Currently, I just lift a little heavier each week, using microloading on some lifts, increasing reps on others before increasing weight. My body weight is 210, and my waist is decreasing by .25-.5 Cm per week, while maintaining my weight.
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Okay. A little off track.
I'm saying strenght is mostly cns. I did NOT say you couldn't build strenght and muscle at the same time. I said they don't have to come at the same time. Ima leave this alone now. You seem to be getting a little heated haha.
 
EBF_2356 said:
Ok.

Its good you got bloods done. They are hell expensive here in Sydney.

Look into Rhodiola from woolworths (chill pill).

Stay away from caffiene also. Lower abs in usually chronic elevation of cortisol which also decreases insulin sensitivity meaning more love handles.

Train heavy, sprint, be smart with carbs, keep protein and fats in range, sleep and take your basic Supps as listed

Also, SLEEP
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Good advice
 
pyrobatt said:
Okay. A little off track.
I'm saying strenght is mostly cns. I did NOT say you couldn't build strenght and muscle at the same time. I said they don't have to come at the same time. Ima leave this alone now. You seem to be getting a little heated haha.
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Yes, maybe a little. I agree that absolute strength might be CNS, but increasing strength over a rep range will produce more hypertrophy. a person who trains singles for 100, and only using singles will be slight bigger when he brings it up to 200. same applies to 5s or 10s. someone doing 10s will generally be a bit bigger then someone doing 5s and quite bigger then someone doing singles. But doing 5s may be easier to recover from and adapt to then doing 10s also and you can possibly get more hypertrophy that way.

I didnt mean to get heated, I just saw a post and thought I could help this girl achieve her goals. a lot of people dont focus enough on overload and just wanted to add that in. Squats/deadlifts/press/bench/chins overload the whole muscular system and is a good place to start as she seems to be a newer trainee.
 
pyrobatt said:
You can stay the same weight and up your squats +100 lbs. Same way you can train to do 1000 pull ups and be the same weight and same bodyfat. Takes time though. A lot of time. I will agree 6 to 12 reps is more stimulatory to hypertrophy but just because you can bench 3x your weight does not mean **** regarding staying leaner. Powerlifters in the 220 class are using so many drugs its not funny. 400lbs powerlifters are more likely to use less due to the sheer mass of them being built like hogs.

Lets leave the paid athletes out of this and talk about the normal people. Can you get hella stronger without increasing weight? Yes.
Click to expand...

That's true but only to a point. If it were entirely true you'd have girls in the pl record books but you don't. They're all huge dudes.

Which is to the point for the OP. Heavy lifting will not cause her muscles to get huge, because she's a girl and can't grow huge muscles. It will cause her muscles to have better definition and be a lot stronger, IOW 6 pack.

Invalid Link Removed

BTW the author of that article, Molly Galbraith, is another one of the Girls Gone Strong founders.
 
compudog said:
That's true but only to a point. If it were entirely true you'd have girls in the pl record books but you don't. They're all huge dudes.

Which is to the point for the OP. Heavy lifting will not cause her muscles to get huge, because she's a girl and can't grow huge muscles. It will cause her muscles to have better definition and be a lot stronger, IOW 6 pack.

Invalid Link Removed

BTW the author of that article, Molly Galbraith, is another one of the Girls Gone Strong founders.
Click to expand...

I didn't say don't lift heavy.
 
compudog said:
That's true but only to a point. If it were entirely true you'd have girls in the pl record books but you don't. They're all huge dudes.

Which is to the point for the OP. Heavy lifting will not cause her muscles to get huge, because she's a girl and can't grow huge muscles. It will cause her muscles to have better definition and be a lot stronger, IOW 6 pack.

Invalid Link Removed

BTW the author of that article, Molly Galbraith, is another one of the Girls Gone Strong founders.
Click to expand...

Good article, doesn't just apply to females though
 
drewsicle3210 said:
Good article, doesn't just apply to females though
Click to expand...

Did you actually read it? She's writing about her own experience. Ms. Galbraith is a coach but she's also a competitor. Here's an excerpt. Note the first person references.

"Then, I like to eat a solid meal 1-2 hours after consuming my PWO shake. Sometimes this meal contains carbs, sometimes it doesn’t. This depends on my current diet. So, a quick example of my peri-workout nutrition might be:
  • 30-60 min prior: 5 g BCAAs, 1 scoop Metabolic Drive, 10 almonds, start sipping Surge Workout Fuel.
  • During Training: 5 g BCAAs, continue sipping Surge Workout Fuel
  • Immediately after Training: 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop Surge or 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop waxy maize starch
  • 1-2 Hours after PWO Meal: 5 oz grilled chicken, 2 cups broccoli, 6 oz sweet potato (optional) 2 tsp ol
"
 
compudog said:
Did you actually read it? She's writing about her own experience. Ms. Galbraith is a coach but she's also a competitor. Here's an excerpt. Note the first person references.

"Then, I like to eat a solid meal 1-2 hours after consuming my PWO shake. Sometimes this meal contains carbs, sometimes it doesn’t. This depends on my current diet. So, a quick example of my peri-workout nutrition might be:
  • 30-60 min prior: 5 g BCAAs, 1 scoop Metabolic Drive, 10 almonds, start sipping Surge Workout Fuel.
  • During Training: 5 g BCAAs, continue sipping Surge Workout Fuel
  • Immediately after Training: 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop Surge or 1 scoop whey + 1 scoop waxy maize starch
  • 1-2 Hours after PWO Meal: 5 oz grilled chicken, 2 cups broccoli, 6 oz sweet potato (optional) 2 tsp ol
"
Click to expand...

Aside from the tiny meals and such, i agree with bcaa's pre and intra, and a shake post.
Other than her first person references, what about that excerpt screams 'female' ?
And i have no clue what Surge is, so if that is a lady supp then whatever.
 
drewsicle3210 said:
Aside from the tiny meals and such, i agree with bcaa's pre and intra, and a shake post.
Other than her first person references, what about that excerpt screams 'female' ?
And i have no clue what Surge is, so if that is a lady supp then whatever.
Click to expand...

Molly Galbraith wrote the article. She used the word "I", so it's sensible to assume she's referring to herself, and it's also sensible to assume she's female. It's stated, explicitly. It's not screamed though. Do you require that before you can hear something?
 
mrgoodbar0 said:
What were your thyroid levels, and how did your bloodwork determine "slightly sluggish" adrenals?
Click to expand...

I would have to get a copy of my blood work but from memory

Thyroid TSH was almost 2.5. Started treating it as it used to be lower. Test again in a few months to check that's its not going the wrong way.

He didn't go into much detail about sluggish adrenals but put it down to them working overtime to compensate the slower thyroid. I did have cortisol tested but not sure what the levels were here which may contribute to sluggish adrenals??
 
pyrobatt said:
One way to spike your metabolism is refeeds. I suggest doing a refeed *adding 100 to 500 Cal's* once a week. This lets your body know there's plenty of fuel. Boost leptin, boost thyroid,ect ect. I hear a lot of "change your diet" in this thread. Why not just give the one you've been using a boost? Can come from carbs or w/e. Sense you're wanting ABS I suggest the refeed on a day you do ABS.
Click to expand...

Thanks pyrobatt - the general consensus I got was to add a few carbs in or refeed with the addition of some hit and fasted cardio + heavy ab work & compound movements....

Would you say refeed pre or post ab workout?
 
harbonah said:
There is nothing wrong with using Clen if one so choose's but that is a personal choice, now that being said you might look into 3,3 diiodo-l-thyronine it does not seem to cause as much suppression of the thyroid from anecdotal evidence and falls in the supplement realm instead of research chemicals. Thyrocaps by SNS I am a big proponent of thyroid hormones myself especial in a case like yours where you have been operating in a caloric deficit for so long.

Also I may have missed it in this thread but carb cycling might be worth a try for you.
Click to expand...

I've started to carb cycle a little since I've been on anabolicminds. Made me realise that this low calorie diet cannot be good long term without some sort of boost which is also important for muscle growth.
Which I should have known but wasn't putting much effort into actual muscle growth and focusing on fat loss. Which now I think that would be the better thing to focus on.

Will check out those supps - am just on acombo iodine/selenium tablets.

Do you believe a slow thyroid comes from undereating?
 
Waterbottle45 said:
going to agree with those who recommended squats/deadlifts/standing presses/chins/bench, focus on progressive overload and strength while maintaining your body mass. Get your squats/deadlifts up to 1.5x body weight and you will be much leaner. You should be able to do this in a year. Remember a stronger muscle, is usually a bigger muscle. I recommend starting strength program.

Also for macros I would say get in about 150g of high quality protein (animal sources or whey) spread evenly in approx 4-5 doses through the day, with about 3.5-4h between meals, and a minimum of approx 100g Carbs (white rice/sweet potatoes/potatoes) and about 40-50g Fats, keep measures weekly and adjust +/- 5-10g carbs /5g fat based on your results, (if losing weight increase to maintain it, if gaining a little bit then decrease it)
Click to expand...

Thankyou for a very specific macro breakdown.
Alot of the advice is to work on lifting heavier whilst still working in the hypertrophy range. a goal of 1.5 bodyweight would be quite a challenge!!

I believe you'll always get a little hypertrophy from strength training due to new muscle tears etc however if hypertrophy is my goal maybe it's better to just work on hypertrophy....

Maybe add a couple of strength sets into the work out.
 
pixiethree said:
Thanks pyrobatt - the general consensus I got was to add a few carbs in or refeed with the addition of some hit and fasted cardio + heavy ab work & compound movements....

Would you say refeed pre or post ab workout?
Click to expand...

Post. Less chance of fat gain. Infact will probably help the bodypart trained that day. For me its shoulder day when I refeed. This will refuel your glycogyn stores too which will make the next 1 or 2 workouts feel better haha.

If you're doing keto don't add carbs. Opt for protien. Otherwise go ahead. I got some great sugar free cookies I use.

Also alphamine seems to be the new kid on the block. Some say its a good alternative to ephedrine. Alpha receptor antagonist like yohimbine will help prevent fat gain and lose some. These are in alphamine. Safe for females too!
 
Must look into this alphamine and if it's avail in Australia. Everything useful is banned here.

Abs for me today and had planned a bit of a cheat meal at my favourite Japanese place.
 
pixiethree said:
Must look into this alphamine and if it's avail in Australia. Everything useful is banned here.

Abs for me today and had planned a bit of a cheat meal at my favourite Japanese place.
Click to expand...

Alphamine!!! :)

We carry a eu version that should be available to you. ;)
 
To offer more advice I can typically see a huge improvement with continued low carb days with a carb up here and there. I really didn't find my 6 pack until I included 15-20 minutes of AB work 5-6 times a week. They are a pain for people who don't naturally have them at low bf.

Best of luck op!
 
Waterbottle45 said:
Yes, maybe a little. I agree that absolute strength might be CNS, but increasing strength over a rep range will produce more hypertrophy. a person who trains singles for 100, and only using singles will be slight bigger when he brings it up to 200. same applies to 5s or 10s. someone doing 10s will generally be a bit bigger then someone doing 5s and quite bigger then someone doing singles. But doing 5s may be easier to recover from and adapt to then doing 10s also and you can possibly get more hypertrophy that way.

I didnt mean to get heated, I just saw a post and thought I could help this girl achieve her goals. a lot of people dont focus enough on overload and just wanted to add that in. Squats/deadlifts/press/bench/chins overload the whole muscular system and is a good place to start as she seems to be a newer trainee.
Click to expand...

pyrobatt said:
I didn't say don't lift heavy.
Click to expand...

Re your guys pissing contest, you guys forget o consider what makes up a muscle, muscle fibers in particular, and which rep ranges stimulate which muscle fibers. Types 1 2a and 2b. the rep ranges you work in determines which type of fibers you target. You can gain strength without size by targeting lower rep ranges 1-5 or target the hypertrophy rep ranges of 8-12.
 
Lukef2000 said:
Re your guys pissing contest, you guys forget o consider what makes up a muscle, muscle fibers in particular, and which rep ranges stimulate which muscle fibers. Types 1 2a and 2b. the rep ranges you work in determines which type of fibers you target. You can gain strength without size by targeting lower rep ranges 1-5 or target the hypertrophy rep ranges of 8-12.
Click to expand...

Hypertrophy can be seen lower and higher than the aforementioned numbers. Not what the discussion was about.
 
Hypertrophy has been examined at the 6-8 rep range
 
pyrobatt said:
Hypertrophy can be seen lower and higher than the aforementioned numbers. Not what the discussion was about.
Click to expand...

Those numbers were only an example, but what i said directly correlates into the topic of discussion which was muscle strength and size. The strength of a muscle is dependent on what type of muscle fibers the muscle is made up of.
 
Qwai Chang said:
Women can't develop "Six Packs Abs Periods"!! Sorry Babe! A nice flat tight abdominal area I would want to eat a meal off of such an exquisite part of a female's anatomy. Besides the other parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Women can have 4,6and even 8 pacs. Its all genetics.
 
pyrobatt said:
Women can have 4,6and even 8 pacs. Its all genetics.
Click to expand...
I must 2nd this...with wtf where did you get the idea that females cant have 6 packs?

In before abstract new age pseudoscience reference.
 
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