2016 NFL Thread

[rugger48]

well there was that one season here and that one season there. Logic includes everything not just what you want it to include. comeback when you actually know football.


But the stats!!!!!!!

 

[jimbuick]

well there was that one season here and that one season there. Logic includes everything not just what you want it to include. comeback when you actually know football.


But the stats!!!!!!!

I clearly know it better than you.

When mounting a debate, you cite the information that best proves your point. I never claimed Manning had Brady beat in every category. I named very specific categories where Manning was categorically better. I also easily refuted many of the claims you have made.

You'll also notice I was able to name far more instances where Manning bested Brady than you were able to name the opposite.

 

[rugger48]

Actually you didn't you named seasons , you named some stats and tried to play season highs as adding to his legacy when Brady had some comparable numbers.


The 121 qbr was just plain stupid.

AgIn name me a trio of WRs that played together as long by as the three I said and are better? Not figuring that into mannings numbers is also stupid.


Your argument is like saying the bears were the best dynasty ever because they had the best season, try again.

 

[jimbuick]

Actually you didn't you named seasons , you named some stats and tried to play season highs as adding to his legacy when Brady had some comparable numbers.


The 121 qbr was just plain stupid.

AgIn name me a trio of WRs that played together as long by as the three I said and are better? Not figuring that into mannings numbers is also stupid.


Your argument is like saying the bears were the best dynasty ever because they had the best season, try again.

Nice strawman.

I named almost entirely career stats. I named 1 seasonal stat. Having the second highest single season QBR is kind of a big deal. There have been a ton of great QBs and only one has had a better season.


Also, you kind of prove my point. Brady has some comparable numbers. In many ways, they are nearly equal. Then, in the ways I have already mentioned (and cited), Manning is better. There are a few stats that are certainly in Brady's favor (as you mentioned), but there are far more where Manning has the upper hand.


Just to help you out, I believe you can google "Logic 1 course free" and there is an online course you can take. I'd recommend it for you.

 

[rugger48]

Nice strawman.

I named almost entirely career stats. I named 1 seasonal stat. Having the second highest single season QBR is kind of a big deal. There have been a ton of great QBs and only one has had a better season.


Also, you kind of prove my point. Brady has some comparable numbers. In many ways, they are nearly equal. Then, in the ways I have already mentioned (and cited), Manning is better. There are a few stats that are certainly in Brady's favor (as you mentioned), but there are far more where Manning has the upper hand.


Just to help you out, I believe you can google "Logic 1 course free" and there is an online course you can take. I'd recommend it for you.

who were manning wrs before 2007

who were bradys before 2007?

if you cant see the difference you need meds.

 

[rugger48]

these are rough number but close

manning from rookie year to 2006

34500 yards and 270 tds manning with 3 hof receivers, not the wholetime, but have those 3 guy as his receiver boosted his number quite a bit.


brady up until 2006 21500 147 tds with who?


reason I use up to 2006, brady didn't get any real talent around him til 2007. what happen after that, brady went off for the rest of his career.


Logic is actually using your brain . your not doing that. bye.

 

[jswain34]

No, their defense sucked, they had no run game, manning was forced to put the team on his back and throw the ball to win games for his team. Its really that simple.

 

[jimbuick]

who were manning wrs before 2007

who were bradys before 2007?

if you cant see the difference you need meds.

I like how you pick that year so you don't have to worry about anyone bringing up Gronk, Hernandez, MOSS, Welker, Edelman, etc.

Just for your reference:

Harrison before Manning - 137 receptions, 1,702 yards, 12.4 avg.

Harrison with Manning - 965 receptions, 12,878 yards, 13.35 avg.

In 1997, Harrison's last season before Manning, he went for 73 receptions and 866 yards (11.9 avg.). In '99, his first full season with Manning, he went for 115 receptions for 1,663 yards (14.5 avg.).

I'm sure that had absolutely nothing to do with Manning though.

 

[rugger48]

I like how you pick that year so you don't have to worry about anyone bringing up Gronk, Hernandez, MOSS, Welker, Edelman, etc.

Just for your reference:

Harrison before Manning - 137 receptions, 1,702 yards, 12.4 avg.

Harrison with Manning - 965 receptions, 12,878 yards, 13.35 avg.

In 1997, Harrison's last season before Manning, he went for 73 receptions and 866 yards (11.9 avg.). In '99, his first full season with Manning, he went for 115 receptions for 1,663 yards (14.5 avg.).

I'm sure that had absolutely nothing to do with Manning though.

of course it had something to do with manning and Harrison also helped him again 3 hof talents to start your career with, helped a lot.


MY point manning had better talent more consistently through his career, not that brady didn't there were 6 years brady had crap at wr and te, while manning had Harrison,clark, and wayne for a good portion of it.

moss was like 3 years, welker maybe 5-6 , and gronk whgen healthy sure, that's what a good qb does with good receivers.


eldemen and hern? no, simply no.

 

[rugger48]

No, their defense sucked, they had no run game, manning was forced to put the team on his back and throw the ball to win games for his team. Its really that simple.

with Harrison,wayne, and clark ya

ya and marshall and edge were total chopped liver to.


I guess favre is a better qb than brady to.

 

[jimbuick]

of course it had something to do with manning and Harrison also helped him again 3 hof talents to start your career with, helped a lot.


MY point manning had better talent more consistently through his career, not that brady didn't there were 6 years brady had crap at wr and te, while manning had Harrison,clark, and wayne for a good portion of it.

moss was like 3 years, welker maybe 5-6 , and gronk whgen healthy sure, that's what a good qb does with good receivers.


eldemen and hern? no, simply no.

The problem is you give all the credit to receivers for making Manning's numbers, but then you give no credit to the consistent top 10 defense to Brady's Superbowl wins (or the most clutch kicker of all time).

Harrison's numbers don't with Manning under center. If it was all Harrison, or Clark, or Wayne, that wouldn't have happened.

Also, Hernandez averaged better than 11 yards per catch as a tight end and was on pace to smash Tony Gonzalez's TD mark and match him for yards if he didn't go to jail. Don't try to sit there and pretend that he wasn't an incredibly talented player. Also, Edleman also averages close to 11 yards per catch (10.8 I think).

 

[rugger48]

The problem is you give all the credit to receivers for making Manning's numbers, but then you give no credit to the consistent top 10 defense to Brady's Superbowl wins (or the most clutch kicker of all time).

Harrison's numbers don't with Manning under center. If it was all Harrison, or Clark, or Wayne, that wouldn't have happened.

Also, Hernandez averaged better than 11 yards per catch as a tight end and was on pace to smash Tony Gonzalez's TD mark and match him for yards if he didn't go to jail. Don't try to sit there and pretend that he wasn't an incredibly talented player. Also, Edleman also averages close to 11 yards per catch (10.8 I think).

I didn't give the receivers all the credit, and those numbers for hern and eldman are with brady. please stop glorifying average receivers, please.

no hern and eldman are not incredible talents.


ridiculous statement that hern would match him if he didn't go to jail. Gonzo was probably one of the best tes to play the game, ever. arron Hernandez and gonzo in the same sentence , really how old are you?

 

[rob112]

I mean I'm not gonna say one is better as one has had much more post season success, while the other revolutionized the QB position...but we are all fooling ourselves if we think colts ever had a better head coach(no offense Dungy), or a better defense. That said who knows? Maybe Brady does better than Peyton if there career paths were switched, maybe not. We just aren't gonna know. Brady is no doubt a beast but so is Pey Pey.

 

[The Solution]

Take the arguing to PM's. Lets leave this to Actual football talk and SB Talk

Seattle Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman doesn't agree with the possibility of his team losing a second-round draft pick for failing to disclose a knee injury during the season.

Dolphins DT Ndamukong Suh has surgery to clean up knee

The NFL and NFL Players Association have warned the Dolphins for "not strictly" following the league's concussion protocol with quarterback Matt Moore during their wild-card playoff loss to the Steelers earlier this month.

Antonio Brown's latest foray into Facebook Live was far less explosive.

On Wednesday, the Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver posted a 14-minute video from a private plane, this time to "quiet the noise" surrounding his career after a turbulent week.

"There's been a lot of reports, a lot of different people saying a lot of different things. You guys know the truth," Brown told his fans.

The Dolphins were not fined or penalized but were told both are possible if they have any future violations of the protocol.

 

[jswain34]

Who are you to say what people can and cannot talk about in this thread? Is that not "actual football talk"?

You're right though, id much rather hear about what Antonio Brown posted to facebook.

Not trying to be a dik here, but that is NFL talk.

 

[jimbuick]

2010 Colts: 10-6
2011 Colts (w/o Manning): 2-14

2007 Pats: 16-0
2008 Pats (w/o Brady): 11-5
2009 Pats: 10-6

Go ahead and keep talking about how much less talent Brady had to work with though...

 

[Bartmac36]

2010 Colts: 10-6
2011 Colts (w/o Manning): 2-14

2007 Pats: 16-0
2008 Pats (w/o Brady): 11-5
2009 Pats: 10-6

Go ahead and keep talking about how much less talent Brady had to work with though...

Why is it Brady's fault that he has a much better organization around him? I'm sure if Brady was the QB of the 2011 Colts they would've been a lot better than 2-14, just like they would've been with Manning.

These are two great QB's but you make it sound like Manning is in another class from Brady and that makes no damn sense. Its downright laughable

You all need to stop worrying about the talent AROUND these guys and focus on the talent OF these guys

 

[jimbuick]

these are rough number but close

manning from rookie year to 2006

34500 yards and 270 tds manning with 3 hof receivers, not the wholetime, but have those 3 guy as his receiver boosted his number quite a bit.


brady up until 2006 21500 147 tds with who?


reason I use up to 2006, brady didn't get any real talent around him til 2007. what happen after that, brady went off for the rest of his career.

LOL!

Did you really just compare Manning's numbers after 9 seasons to Brady's numbers after 6 seasons to show that Manning only has better stats because of better talent at the start of their careers? Of course his numbers are way higher, he played in 50% more games at that time!

Logic is actually using your brain . your not doing that. bye.

And then to end that comment with this? LOL!!!

 

[The Solution]

The Saints have signed long snapper Jesse Schmitt after seeing him at the Husted Kicking pro specialists camp in Mobile, Ala.

One of the guys generating the most buzz during Senior Bowl practices this week is Eastern Washington WR Cooper Kupp, who is proving his gaudy college numbers were no fluke. He could become a Round 2 prospect, if not higher

Senior Bowl: Alabama TE O.J. Howard boosted his draft stock this week in Mobile. Separates quickly on underneath routes. Can work through the jam versus safeties and linebackers. Speed to stretch the field on the seam route.

 

[rugger48]

lol Aaron Hernandez would of been a better te than tony Gonzales if he didnt go to jail. Eldenan an incredible talent?


Haha

Yes logic.

 

[rugger48]

The Saints have signed long snapper Jesse Schmitt after seeing him at the Husted Kicking pro specialists camp in Mobile, Ala.

One of the guys generating the most buzz during Senior Bowl practices this week is Eastern Washington WR Cooper Kupp, who is proving his gaudy college numbers were no fluke. He could become a Round 2 prospect, if not higher

Senior Bowl: Alabama TE O.J. Howard boosted his draft stock this week in Mobile. Separates quickly on underneath routes. Can work through the jam versus safeties and linebackers. Speed to stretch the field on the seam route.

.I like Howard a lot, he should see the first round.

 

[Woody]

Gerald Everette is a better receiving TE than Howard but his blocking needs work. Everette is my #2 TE behind Howard and in front of Njoku

 

[Woody]

Kupp is one of the better receivers in this draft. Crafty route runner and good hands.

 

[rtmilburn]

well there was that one season here and that one season there. Logic includes everything not just what you want it to include. comeback when you actually know football.


But the stats!!!!!!!

Haha yep the almighty stats. Lol every fcking recruiter, NFL player analys, and coach will all say numbers can be deceptive!!!!


Now I won't discredit manning because he was great and his career stats are great and over a course of career numbers are a little more accurate but they still are VERY deceptive.

Fck big Ben won super bowl with a QBR in the 60s(lowest of all time) but the game he played wasn't that bad(wasn't great tho). But he did what it took to win.

 

[rtmilburn]

No, their defense sucked, they had no run game, manning was forced to put the team on his back and throw the ball to win games for his team. Its really that simple.

That why his numbers are higher as well they did WAY more passing

 

[jimbuick]

lol Aaron Hernandez would of been a better te than tony Gonzales if he didnt go to jail. Eldenan an incredible talent?


Haha

Yes logic.

You don't read well.

I never said either of those things.

I said Hernandez was a talented TE, which is a fact. I also said he was on pace to smash Gonzalez's TD mark, which is also a fact.

The words Edelman is a great talent were never posted by me. I posted that he has close to an 11 yards per catch average over his career, which is a fact.



You don't get to talk about logic after using 9 seasons compared to 6 to show how Manning had a headstart because of receiver talent.

 

[rugger48]

You don't read well.

I never said either of those things.

I said Hernandez was a talented TE, which is a fact. I also said he was on pace to smash Gonzalez's TD mark, which is also a fact.

The words Edelman is a great talent were never posted by me. I posted that he has close to an 11 yards per catch average over his career, which is a fact.



You don't get to talk about logic after using 9 seasons compared to 6 to show how Manning had a headstart because of receiver talent.

that's because you looked over the point when I said look what happened when brady actually had talent around him.


Hernandez didn't even play 3 season , you simple don't make a dumb statement like that. Take the lump jim it was a dumb statement.


if all those extra tds and and all that yardage is so important jim and both peyton and brady both have been active for about 17 seasons can you tell me why Brady has a better QBR career rating than manning?


IDK maybe because there is more to a qb than td and yardage, ya think.

Also, Hernandez averaged better than 11 yards per catch as a tight end and was on pace to smash Tony Gonzalez's TD mark and match him for yards if he didn't go to jail. Don't try to sit there and pretend that he wasn't an incredibly talented player. Also, Edleman also averages close to 11 yards per catch (10.8 I think).

I'm pretty sure if your saying hern is averaging 11 ypc and eldeman is doing the same and you claim that hern is an incredible talent, it kind of means your saying the same thing about eldman.

 

[jimbuick]

that's because you looked over the point when I said look what happened when brady actually had talent around him.


Hernandez didn't even play 3 season , you simple don't make a dumb statement like that. Take the lump jim it was a dumb statement.


if all those extra tds and and all that yardage is so important jim and both peyton and brady both have been active for about 17 seasons can you tell me why Brady has a better QBR career rating than manning?


IDK maybe because there is more to a qb than td and yardage, ya think.




I'm pretty sure if your saying hern is averaging 11 ypc and eldeman is doing the same and you claim that hern is an incredible talent, it kind of means your saying the same thing about eldman.

That's weird, I could have sworn those two guys played different positions. Help me remember, wasn't one of those guys a tight end and the other was a wide receiver? You'll even see in that post you quoted I specifically mentioned the average as a tight end.

Here's the point since you don't get it: if you want to say Manning only has better numbers because of a better start to the career, you have to equalize the number of seasons. You could compare 6:6, or 9:9, but you cannot make the direct comparison of 9:6 to prove whatever point you thought you were trying to make.

You made a plethora of dumb statements, take the L.

 

[rugger48]

Now come on jim

peyton has about 10.000 more yards than brady and he has 83 more tds than brady yet brady has a better QBR rating than manning, I wonder why that is?

 

[rugger48]

That's weird, I could have sworn those two guys played different positions. Help me remember, wasn't one of those guys a tight end and the other was a wide receiver? You'll even see in that post I quoted I specifically mentioned the average as a tight end.

Here's the point since you don't get it: if you want to say Manning only has better numbers because of a better start to the career, you have to equalize the number of seasons. You could compare 6:6, or 9:9, but you cannot make the direct comparison of 9:6 to prove whatever point you thought you were trying to make.

You made a plethora of dumb statements, take the L.

hern played te , jim. you would have had to actually watch football and follow to know that.

again you missed the part where I said why I posted that.

 

[jimbuick]

hern played te , jim. you would have had to actually watch football and follow to know that.

again you missed the part where I said why I posted that.

Holy ****.

I'm done.

Reread what I wrote and come back when you can read at a middle school level, please.

 

[rugger48]

peyton has about 10.000 more yards than brady and he has 83 more tds than brady yet brady has a better QBR rating than manning, I wonder why that is?

 

[jimbuick]

I have a hard time taking anything you say seriously since you have already proven that you cannot read.

If you are incapable of reading in, what I can only assume is, your native tongue how am I expected to believe you can piece together a sound argument?

 

[rugger48]

peyton has about 10.000 more yards than brady and he has 83 more tds than brady yet brady has a better QBR rating than manning, I wonder why that is?


answer the question jim, if peyton has the best positional stats why is brady's career QBR better?

 

[jimbuick]

peyton has about 10.000 more yards than brady and he has 83 more tds than brady yet brady has a better QBR rating than manning, I wonder why that is?


answer the question jim, if peyton has the best positional stats why is brady's career QBR better?

Tom Brady has about 43,000 more yards and over 300 more TDs than Brady, yet Wilson has a better QBR than Brady, why is that?

Brady has about 25,000 more yards and over 150 more TDs than Brady, yet Rodgers has a better QBR than Brady, I wonder why that is?

Dan Marino has about 42,500 more yards and over 300 more TDs than Ryan Tannehill, yet Tannehill has a better QBR than Marino, guess that means Tannehill is the better QB.

Answer the question, rugger, if these guys have the better positional stats why don't they have higher QBRs?

 

[rtmilburn]

Tom Brady has about 43,000 more yards and over 300 more TDs than Brady, yet Wilson has a better QBR than Brady, why is that?

Brady has about 25,000 more yards and over 150 more TDs than Brady, yet Rodgers has a better QBR than Brady, I wonder why that is?

Dan Marino has about 42,500 more yards and over 300 more TDs than Ryan Tannehill, yet Tannehill has a better QBR than Marino, guess that means Tannehill is the better QB.

Answer the question, rugger, if these guys have the better positional stats why don't they have higher QBRs?

You sure like to throw out stats, and treat them poorly for arguing because you showed "STATS". However when others put out stats YOU argue them and still treat them poorly.

It's like

You:How dare disagree with me I gave "proof"
Anyone: Well here are stats that show other wise
You: well those stats don't matter. You uneducated tool bag.

 

[rugger48]

Tom Brady has about 43,000 more yards and over 300 more TDs than Brady, yet Wilson has a better QBR than Brady, why is that?

Brady has about 25,000 more yards and over 150 more TDs than Brady, yet Rodgers has a better QBR than Brady, I wonder why that is?

Dan Marino has about 42,500 more yards and over 300 more TDs than Ryan Tannehill, yet Tannehill has a better QBR than Marino, guess that means Tannehill is the better QB.

Answer the question, rugger, if these guys have the better positional stats why don't they have higher QBRs?

they have shorter sample sizes, you don't compare qbs who have different sample like that. I'm comparing 2 qb who have close 250 games under their belts.


when Wilson and tanny have close to 20 season under their belt then use those comparisons.

Its the same reason you don't throw a name like aaron hernandez in with tony Gonzales.


The reason tony has done it around 15 years and aaron hern didn't even have 3 years worth of games.


Its like comparing Ezekial Elliot to Barry sanders.

 

[rtmilburn]

they have shorter sample sizes, you don't compare qbs who have different sample like that. I'm comparing 2 qb who have close 250 games under their belts.


when Wilson and tanny have close to 20 season under their belt then use those comparisons.

Its the same reason you don't throw a name like aaron hernandez in with tony Gonzales.


The reason tony has done it around 15 years and aaron hern didn't even have 3 years worth of games.

True and thb if Wilson plays like he has (except this year) he WILL be in the same conversation as Brady and Manning

 

[jimbuick]

You sure like to throw out stats, and treat them poorly for arguing because you showed "STATS". However when others put out stats YOU argue them and still treat them poorly.

It's like

You:How dare disagree with me I gave "proof"
Anyone: Well here are stats that show other wise
You: well those stats don't matter. You uneducated tool bag.

That's what debate is guy. I present information and I attempt to defend it, someone else presents information and I attempt to refute it.

That's how it works.

So it's nothing like that. Also, you notice the only time I mention anything about the poster is when there is very clear lack of judgement. Such as saying that I didn't know Hernandez was a tight end, or using the numbers from 9 seasons and comparing them to 6 seasons (not the average mind you, just the raw numbers).

 

[rtmilburn]

That's what debate is guy. I present information and I attempt to defend it, someone else presents information and I attempt to refute it.

That's how it works.

So it's nothing like that. Also, you notice the only time I mention anything about the poster is when there is very clear lack of judgement. Such as saying that I didn't know Hernandez was a tight end, or using the numbers from 9 seasons and comparing them to 6 seasons (not the average mind you, just the raw numbers).

Yes that is what a debate is. To bad that's not what you are doing you are being mean and personally attacking people. Hell you still are doing it. Im mean come on you can't be that arrogant

 

[rugger48]

That's what debate is guy. I present information and I attempt to defend it, someone else presents information and I attempt to refute it.

That's how it works.

So it's nothing like that. Also, you notice the only time I mention anything about the poster is when there is very clear lack of judgement. Such as saying that I didn't know Hernandez was a tight end, or using the numbers from 9 seasons and comparing them to 6 seasons (not the average mind you, just the raw numbers).

Manning close a 2:1 career td:int ratio


Brady close to 3:1 career td:int ratio

 

[jimbuick]

Yes that is what a debate is. To bad that's not what you are doing you are being mean and personally attacking people. Hell you still are doing it. Im mean come on you can't be that arrogant

Lol, really?

Most of my "mean" posts were direct word for word representations of what the previous poster used with different information filling the spots where he had his original information.

I imagine you are applying a tone to my postings that is simply not there.

 

[rtmilburn]

Lol, really?

Most of my "mean" posts were direct word for word representations of what the previous poster used with different information filling the spots where he had his original information.

I imagine you are applying a tone to my postings that is simply not there.

Sure go with that.

Telling him to take common sense 101. Calling him dumb and soooo much more but I don't have to time list them.

Plus most of the time you "direct word for word representation" of the person you are qouting is definitely a misinterpreted by YOU in the first place.

 

[jimbuick]

Sure go with that.

Telling him to take common sense 101. Calling him dumb and soooo much more but I don't have to time list them.

Plus most of the time you "direct word for word representation" of the person you are qouting is definitely a misinterpreted by YOU in the first place.

I actually told him to take Logic I, which is a legitimate course of Formal Logic that most people should take. Especially people who are interested in debating in any form.

 

[jswain34]

Lol, okay, i take back what I said to Bob.

 

[rugger48]

Jim Your problem is actual football knowledge, you don't see the why the reason of comparing a qb who played in the 80's to a qb you played 30 years later shouldn't be compared. Your running out stats and don't know why stats are the way they are. If this conversation was happening 3-4 years ago I would agree manning is the better qb, but were not.

 

[jimbuick]

Jim Your problem is actual football knowledge, you don't see the why the reason of comparing a qb who played in the 80's to a qb you played 30 years later shouldn't be compared. Your running out stats and don't know why stats are the way they are. If this conversation was happening 3-4 years ago I would agree manning is the better qb, but were not.

Yes it was my utter lack of football knowledge that led to you not even knowing how many SuperBowls Peyton had been to.

We've been through this all the way around and are back to you citing the same few stats that you started with.

This is my last post on the topic and I will conclude my stance in it.

Peyton Manning was the better QB over the course of their careers to this point. My reasons for that are his statistical numbers being the greatest ever in many categories and greater than Brady's in many others, his unmatched ability to control the offense from the line of scrimmage, and the direct effect he had on his much less talented (as shown by their respective records without the two players in question) team's success.

 

[rtmilburn]

Jim Your problem is actual football knowledge, you don't see the why the reason of comparing a qb who played in the 80's to a qb you played 30 years later shouldn't be compared. Your running out stats and don't know why stats are the way they are. If this conversation was happening 3-4 years ago I would agree manning is the better qb, but were not.

There were less defensive restrictions in the 80s making it harder for QBs to put they same numbers as a QB could now

 

[rtmilburn]

I actually told him to take Logic I, which is a legitimate course of Formal Logic that most people should take. Especially people who are interested in debating in any form.

Haha sure you just trying to help him out.

 

[jswain34]

Well composed summation, you big a*śhole...