1,3 DMAA - Thoughts, Products, and Everything Else (official thread)

MidwestBeast

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I know there are a handful of threads discussing 1,3 dmaa and the recent rulings by the government and the potential that it very well may lead to the product being banned/pulled. These threads, however, didn't seem to encompass everything that I was hoping to. As this topic continues to be debated, I wanted a thread where we could discuss a few things -- a "one stop" thread for all things 1,3 dmaa.



To start things off, I'd like to ask the members for some of their personal input. How do you think this will play out?


- Will 1,3 dmaa and all products with any form of geranium extract be banned?

- Will it just be the synthetic form, since that's how most of the wording is in the rulings?

- If "naturally occurring" geranium extracts are still allowed, will companies even bother? How will it be proven?

- Will we (the supplement companies and the consumers) win and will we be able to keep things the same?


And also, what are your favorite 1,3 dmaa-containing supplements?

- What are your favorite 1,3 dmaa-containing fat-burners?

- What are your favorite 1,3 dmaa-containing pre-workouts?



When I get a chance, I will edit this post to include some of the links on this issue and I will try my best to facilitate, too. I just would like one place to look as we continue to see things unfold, regarding this compound.


Links:

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm302133.htm

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Regulation/AHPA-If-DMAA-is-in-geranium-synthesized-version-is-a-lawful-dietary-ingredient

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/content/fda-dmaa-not-1314/

http://dmaaresearch.com/
 

mnowak1228

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hvactech

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i personally can only handle low dosed 1,3d products, i do love me some motivate though
 
dsade

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I know Thermogum is out. The "geranium extract" several suppliers sent me as I went to make the switch were no good.
 
AaronJP1

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I've never been a huge fan of 1,3. Glad it's gone because I crash heavily. I typically low dose MM cause 1,3 is pretty strong.
 
Valhalla86

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I've never been a huge fan of 1,3. Glad it's gone because I crash heavily. I typically low dose MM cause 1,3 is pretty strong.
Same.

I think most companies will just avoid it all together, even if the natural extract is permitted. More than likely, with the FDA looking deeper into the compound as a whole, the guidelines for inclusion in product and proof of proper extraction would likely be a headache.

I had tried Razor 8 with no real side effects, and a few scoops of Jack3d ages ago that made me crash. There are plenty other stimulant compounds that it can be replaced with, imo.
 
MidwestBeast

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I've never been a huge fan of 1,3. Glad it's gone because I crash heavily. I typically low dose MM cause 1,3 is pretty strong.
I loved Jack3d and OEP and several other products with it included. That said, I rarely use stimulants, anymore, but the point that was raised in other threads is the important one -- if we don't like something, we can just choose to refrain from using it. This sets precedence for more things to get pulled (that are "synthetic").

I really, really hope this doesn't amount to anything more and I'll be writing my local officials about it.
 
Nihsnek

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Another thing that the govt. is telling me what I can and can not take. "Public safety" often trumps personal freedom.
 
dsade

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this is the real problem at hand...
Whoa...is that a muscle shirt you are wearing? Don't you know exposing that kind of bare skin to the sun can cause skin cancer? We're going to have to ban those kinds of shirts...for your own good.
 
carpee

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Whoa...is that a muscle shirt you are wearing? Don't you know exposing that kind of bare skin to the sun can cause skin cancer? We're going to have to ban those kinds of shirts...for your own good.
thank you o great chancellor!

I can not survive without the govt's oversight!
 
strategicmove

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I've never been a huge fan of 1,3. Glad it's gone because I crash heavily. I typically low dose MM cause 1,3 is pretty strong.
Interesting. Thought you enjoyed the 1,3 product you used in your last log.
 
AaronJP1

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Interesting. Thought you enjoyed the 1,3 product you used in your last log.
Oh the one u followed ever so thoroughly....
I enjoyed MM as well, but it doesn't me I don't crash or alter the dose of the products.... & with all due respect 1 scoop of MM is no where near equal in terms of stimulants as jack3d....
 
cjszip

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Good riddance. I for one am happy to see this. Why is it that when a supplement company decides to dig into the archives and release a drug from decades gone by, label it naturally-derived, and then mega-dose it, we get upset at the government for enforcing regulation? This isn't like ephedra, which I was against banning because it was naturally derived and utilized as a concentrated herbal. This is a synthetic drug which was marketed by a pharmaceutical company in the 70's. Supplement companies have been finding new drugs in chemistry books for years and then mass marketing them in an extremely unstandardized dosing protocol (scoops, for example, provide an obviously unstandardized dose). They disregard health and safety for a quick buck by using pharmaceutical stimulants.

1. This isn't a new drug. It was developed and patented by Eli Lilly in the 40's, and marketed as a nasal decongestant in the 70's. It was later scrapped (note; marketed as a synthetic drug- probably not the best candidate to be classified, or sold, as a nutritional supplement).
2. It has been banned for quite some time by the MLB and World Anti-Doping Agency.
3. As far as I know, all the dietary supplement companies are sourcing their DMAA from over seas, and all of them are synthetic as of the issued CAD.
4. The NSF has publicly stated that DMAA is a purely synthetic product. It's not derived from Geranium oil even when said oil is tested as low as PPB.

That said, I agree that it's probably not a danger to public health and safety. The problem I have is with the supplement companies, not the government. You want to keep your supplement freedom? Be pissed at the supplement companies for ruining it. You're protesting the wrong entity. The government won't listen to "I should have the right to choose" as long as supplement companies decide to put synthetic, pharmaceutical drugs into supplements to make a quick buck. Their motive isn't going to be the imminent and obvious danger that lurks- it will be the proposition of danger that could result IF they don't act now to begin more stringent restrictions. They're not going to ban everything they can because some company releases legal meth and a few people die. They're going to sit back and accrue a substantial number of cases in which action was required because a substantial number of people died between a handful of products. Then the government is going to force restrictions down your throats until you're left with 50mg vitamin C and Centrums (if you're lucky) and prescription omega-3 Ethyl Ester.
 
J19891

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It's just the FDA trying to scare companies into pulling it. They don't have the legal grounds to ban it.
 
HereToStudy

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Good riddance. I for one am happy to see this. Why is it that when a supplement company decides to dig into the archives and release a drug from decades gone by, label it naturally-derived, and then mega-dose it, we get upset at the government for enforcing regulation? This isn't like ephedra, which I was against banning because it was naturally derived and utilized as a concentrated herbal. This is a synthetic drug which was marketed by a pharmaceutical company in the 70's. Supplement companies have been finding new drugs in chemistry books for years and then mass marketing them in an extremely unstandardized dosing protocol (scoops, for example, provide an obviously unstandardized dose). They disregard health and safety for a quick buck by using pharmaceutical stimulants.

1. This isn't a new drug. It was developed and patented by Eli Lilly in the 40's, and marketed as a nasal decongestant in the 70's. It was later scrapped (note; marketed as a synthetic drug- probably not the best candidate to be classified, or sold, as a nutritional supplement).
2. It has been banned for quite some time by the MLB and World Anti-Doping Agency.
3. As far as I know, all the dietary supplement companies are sourcing their DMAA from over seas, and all of them are synthetic as of the issued CAD.
4. The NSF has publicly stated that DMAA is a purely synthetic product. It's not derived from Geranium oil even said oil is tested as low as PPB.
Yay nanny state am I right?

Don't complain about the companies having to keep hitting the old books, when everything that makes sense gets banned. It is like the prohormone market. Why would companies want to keep finding the newest prohormones if the stardard AAS was not illegal in the first place.


..and either way, in a "free" country, why the F*ck am I being told what I can put in my own damn body? DMAA causes no effect on any person other than the one dosing it, who is free to take it or not take it.

You know what is interesting about my post? I am not even the biggest DMAA fan. But to give big brother the power take it away from me as an option pisses me off, and it should piss you off too.
 
cjszip

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I understand where you're coming from, but as I edited my post to clarify my position; I'm angry with the companies because they're going to lead to a wide spread, heavy-duty regulation of the industry as a whole by doing this. Yeah, I agree, freedom WOULD be great in a free country, but like it or not, when companies keep using loop hole marketing to their advantage, it eventually leads to heavy enforcement.
 
JudoJosh

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Yay nanny state am I right?

Don't complain about the companies having to keep hitting the old books, when everything that makes sense gets banned. It is like the prohormone market. Why would companies want to keep finding the newest prohormones if the stardard AAS was not illegal in the first place.


..and either way, in a "free" country, why the F*ck am I being told what I can put in my own damn body? DMAA causes no effect on any person other than the one dosing it, who is free to take it or not take it.

You know what is interesting about my post? I am not even the biggest DMAA fan. But to give big brother the power take it away from me as an option pisses me off, and it should piss you off too.
Reps!
 
lilarny

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I work for a big supplement chain.... Won't say which one, but its one most of us avoid. Word is we are pulling EVERYTHING with dmaa from the shelves as early as tomorrow
 

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Does this mean we will see a DMAA free SNS Focus XT? :)
 
bdcc

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Does this mean we will see a DMAA free SNS Focus XT? :)
Do you mean the one on the market right now? lol.

I think you are confusing Dimethylaminoethanol Bitartrate with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine i.e. DMAE with DMAA.

Very different creatures. :)
 

Clemenza

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Posted this elsewhere, should be here....



Very very scary. This is the tip of the iceberg. Over 20,000 supplements won't be able to be sold as dietary supplements any longer.

I'm telling you this is more about politics than it is actually keeping supplement consumers safe. The pharma lobby is too huge. The current law allows for synthetic botanicals to be sold as dietary supplements. They are breaking their own laws and making up new rules as they go along.
 
bdcc

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I thought it had a variant of the 1,3 crap?
I edited my original post to be more helpful as I saw where you were confused.
 

Clemenza

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By changing the law and not allowing supplement companies to use synthetic replicas of herbal botanical, the fda puts these companies in a position where they.can no longer afford the costs of natural extraction, and even if they can those costs are passed along to the consumers. The costs would be astronomical. Who's going to pay $100 for a month supply of milk thistle?

It's a lose lose situation for supplement companies.

Now on the other hand, pharma companies are allowed to produce these synthetic botanical s by law. The pharma companies now having the monopoly can produce them cheaply and sell them to consumers for whatever the hell price they want, without competition.
 

Jorsn

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Do you mean the one on the market right now? lol.

I think you are confusing Dimethylaminoethanol Bitartrate with 1,3-Dimethylamylamine i.e. DMAE with DMAA.

Very different creatures. :)
O okay. Yeah the names look so similar, I thought they were the same thing.
 
MidwestBeast

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By changing the law and not allowing supplement companies to use synthetic replicas of herbal botanical, the fda puts these companies in a position where they.can no longer afford the costs of natural extraction, and even if they can those costs are passed along to the consumers. The costs would be astronomical. Who's going to pay $100 for a month supply of milk thistle?

It's a lose lose situation for supplement companies.

Now on the other hand, pharma companies are allowed to produce these synthetic botanical s by law. The pharma companies now having the monopoly can produce them cheaply and sell them to consumers for whatever the hell price they want, without competition.
I couldn't agree with you more.

Heretostudy - reps, brother. Very well stated.

Jacob - thanks for posting that link. I'm subscribed to their mailing list and got that this morning, but haven't had a chance to read it, yet (finals week, graduation, Summer/Fall registration - things are nuts around here).






The wording is what's particularly worrisome. As stated above, the extraction process and how these same ingredients are derived could conceivably make the cost not worth it, thus resulting in the collapse of an industry and the control placed into the hands of pharmaceutical companies, which is what none of us want.

The bottom line is as long as alcohol (everclear) and cigarettes are legal, I will never believe that the government is doing anything for my safety. Just like everything else, they're doing it for their own selfish reasons and I will fight tooth and nail to stop this and any further injustices from happening. Consenting adults should be able to put whatever they want into their own bodies; it's just a matter of education. People die from alcohol poisoning or related events on a fairly regular basis, but yet these items haven't been pulled.
 

Clemenza

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I couldn't agree with you more.

Heretostudy - reps, brother. Very well stated.

Jacob - thanks for posting that link. I'm subscribed to their mailing list and got that this morning, but haven't had a chance to read it, yet (finals week, graduation, Summer/Fall registration - things are nuts around here).

The wording is what's particularly worrisome. As stated above, the extraction process and how these same ingredients are derived could conceivably make the cost not worth it, thus resulting in the collapse of an industry and the control placed into the hands of pharmaceutical companies, which is what none of us want.

The bottom line is as long as alcohol (everclear) and cigarettes are legal, I will never believe that the government is doing anything for my safety. Just like everything else, they're doing it for their own selfish reasons and I will fight tooth and nail to stop this and any further injustices from happening. Consenting adults should be able to put whatever they want into their own bodies; it's just a matter of education. People die from alcohol poisoning or related events on a fairly regular basis, but yet these items haven't been pulled.
You are right on. Alcohol and cigarettes are taxed drastically and bring in so much revenue to the government. For this reason they will never be banned.

Gambling is illegal in NY currently, but you are now seeing more and more video table games being allowed at racetracks, almost turning them into full casinos. The NY state government admittedly is doing this to increase revenue.

Things aren't always as they seem. The government allows doctors to prescribe amphetamines to 6 year old kids because they can't concentrate in school, but they are pulling dmaa from the market under the guise of safety.
 

Clemenza

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I really don't want to get too political here, but we need to look at the big picture. Who knows what the government bans or restricts next as they see fit. People need to wake up and stop electing the big government types on either side of the aisle to office.
 
bigdavid

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I've never been a huge fan of 1,3. Glad it's gone because I crash heavily. I typically low dose MM cause 1,3 is pretty strong.

I crashed as well. I would feel like a god in the gym but several hours later when I was home I would have no energy and fall into a depressed state mentally. It was no fun and not a rollercoaster I wanted to keep riding.
 
Nihsnek

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I really don't want to get too political here, but we need to look at the big picture. Who knows what the government bans or restricts next as they see fit. People need to wake up and stop electing the big government types on either side of the aisle to office.
This is the reason I am mad. Sure, I personally like DMAA, but I can decide for myself if it's safe for me.
 
antihero

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This is the reason I am mad. Sure, I personally like DMAA, but I can decide for myself if it's safe for me.
This is exactly why EVERYONE should be enraged. I'm a grown ass man, and I am the one who decides what does and does not go into MY body.
 
schizm

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O okay. Yeah the names look so similar, I thought they were the same thing.
haha, they do look similar as well as the abbv. of them...but no, the only stim in FocusXT is the caff....our 1,3 dim product is called AdrenaG...or rather, was... :(

I've been a 1,3 fan since I first tried it in AMP (v1)....sad to see it go...and in the manner in which it's gone and what that potentially means for the supplement industry as a whole...
 
MidwestBeast

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This is exactly why EVERYONE should be enraged. I'm a grown ass man, and I am the one who decides what does and does not go into MY body.
Bingo.

Safety isn't a concern, here. I will make a scene about this.
 

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