What comes after Cycle Support?

I think cortisol control is best left out of this product. There is a valid arguement that cortisol modulation should not occur until two weeks into PCT, and not immediately at the onset. If it were included in this product, then it would give users no option for beginning such supplemention at that time. Liver support supplements are probably best used at a diferent timing than the products listed in Post Cycle Support as well. I would venture to say that including such products(liver support supplements), that you'd be reducing the efficacy of the main ingredients in Post Cycle Support.
 
Why no cort controller until 2 weeks into pct? My understanding was that once u eliminated the exogenous source of test then test levels fall while things like cort and estro levels remain high, hence the reason for fat gain in pct. Unless you were refering to a long ester cycle? Where am i off on this? sorry for the choppyness and double post. Im on my mobile.ack!
 
Crowler,

You guys thought about using Stevia or some other natural sweetner vs. Splenda? I would love to use cycle support but am allergic to sucralose/maltodextrin.
Just asking :thumbsup:

Is there Maltodextrin in CS?

BTW, I completely agree with Jay. Great job guys!
 
this sounds like exactly what i've been looking for. my next cycle starts in october, PLEASE have this stuff out by then! lol
 
Is there Maltodextrin in CS?

BTW, I completely agree with Jay. Great job guys!

No there is no maltodextrin in Cycle Support. The only sweetner is a little sucralose. The early labels said it could have one or more of the following and listed maltodextin and some others BUT there never was anything but sucralose.

Reason for that listed on the labels? Well seemed like a good idea at the time but looking back it sure doesn't now lol 100% MY fault.

Thanks for the compliment and the question.


CROWLER
 
Why no cort controller until 2 weeks into post cycle therapy? My understanding was that once u eliminated the exogenous source of test then test levels fall while things like cort and estro levels remain high, hence the reason for fat gain in post cycle therapy. Unless you were refering to a long ester cycle? Where am i off on this? sorry for the choppyness and double post. Im on my mobile.ack!

My reference was to the PCT articles done by Dr. Houser on another forum. Here's a excerpt-
[size=+2]ANTI-CATABOLICS[/size]

7-oxo DHEA (3-acetoxyandrostat-5-ene-7,17-dione) / 7-ketoDHEA

DHEA finds conversion into some 150 metabolites (that we are currently aware of), each with unique actions within the body. One of the reasons my aforementioned comments about the mother-compound DHEA on how I think it is a prohormone that should in fact be banned are worrisome is due to the likely subsequent banning of potentially-useful metabolites. In the early get-go, 7-oxo, TM’d as 7-keto products seem to hold the most promise supported by the literature. I like its seemingly absent conversion to estrogen or testosterone and its anti-catabolic properties (which are purported to control and/or reduce body fat.

The rationale supplied for use of this compound in the post-cycle era, however, through cortisol suppression, I have never understood effectively as stated in Part II and in various posts. Exogenous androgen introduction tends to universally suppress the adrenal gland via feedback inhibition of ACTH. Recall that ACTH subsequently imparts action on production of various adrenal hormones, in this case cortisol being one. For how this effect is seen here, I offer the following “simplified” model:

Step 1: “On” cycle = exogenous androgen introduction, not only leading to subsequent endogenous shutdown of the Leydig cell production of testosterone through feedback inhibition of the pituitary’s production of LH, but also a negative feedback that mimics adrenal cortical (zona reticularis) overproduction of androgenic outflow offering negative feedback tie-in to ACTH pathways.

Step 2: “Off” cycle (PCT) = cessation of exogenous androgen introduction in a still suppressed ACTH (albeit partial) environment (hypOadrenalism) and subsequent low-level cortisol production, amongst other adrenal byproducts.

Step 3: ACTH regeneration BEFORE LH regeneration (due to partial vs. complete negative feedback mechanisms). The question we set out to answer was when this becomes clinically significant. The answer appears to be more complex than the time I would like to offer here, however, I will summarize a few key points:

(1) Half-life of the exogenous compound seems to play a role on ACTH regeneration (which may seem “common sensical”, but how many automatically have assumed immediate catabolism?).
(2) Many factors (dietary as well as other) seem to impart a role on anti-catabolic nature of post-cycle time frame (again, perhaps another “common-sensical” point, but how often is it seen that people go from a hypERcaloric state while “on” cycle into a state of immediate hypOcalorism?).
(3) Another in-house study has given us some answers into regeneration-time frames. Oveall, the 3-week mark post-cycle appears preliminarily to be a time of universal cortisol up-regulation. The first two weeks are assumed to remain in suppression almost independent of the type of agent used. Use of substances such as 7-oxo / 7-keto compounds seems better left out of post-cycle planning for that immediate 2-week time frame.

[author’s note: complete in-house study results will too appear in upcoming book release!]
 
Crowler,

You guys thought about using Stevia or some other natural sweetner vs. Splenda? I would love to use cycle support but am allergic to sucralose/maltodextrin.
Just asking :thumbsup:

Sorry about that I missed your post.

We don't have any current plans to change the sweetner.

We have a capped version of Cycle Support by the name of Life Support.

It is available at Nutra Planet. It is half the dosage of Cycle Support.

Thanks again.


CROWLER
 
How about some grape seed extract here to. That acts as a natural serm right? I believe its used in RPM.

Grape Seed Proanthyocyanidinsis are non-suicidal aromatase inhibitors, not a SERM. We figured 6-bromo is gonna take care of the aromatase situation nicely, so we left GSE out.
 
Grape Seed Proanthyocyanidinsis are non-suicidal aromatase inhibitors, not a SERM. We figured 6-bromo is gonna take care of the aromatase situation nicely, so we left GSE out.

aPCT uses GSE with 6-bromo, and Restore might????

Obviously you can't throw everything in it, but it looks solid, but I reiterate my previous question about the dosing of Res.

Isn't it under dosed?
 
Dosages I had posted earlier were tentative.

Even still, 600mg:500mg wasn't too much of a difference (I just picked a nice round number). Perhaps you were thinking I meant 500mg of 50% resv?

I just got done talking with CROWLER, and it looks like we can fit a higher dose into our budget.


ALRI's Restore does not contain GSE. It contains Vitex. Vitex also is used in herbal breast enlargement supplements. I figured if you guys wanted larger breasts, you wouldn't even bother with PCT.
 
ALRI's Restore does not contain GSE. It contains Vitex. Vitex also is used in herbal breast enlargement supplements. I figured if you guys wanted larger breasts, you wouldn't even bother with post cycle therapy.

:jaw: Now you tell me...I was wondering why all the guys were whistling when I walked by????
 
:jaw: Now you tell me...I was wondering why all the guys were whistling when I walked by????

Not trying to discredit ALRI. I'm a big fan of their products, and this was an one of the first things we looked into using; however, I didn't feel comfortable putting into the final product for such reasons.

BTW, when you gave me your phone#, you only gave me 6 digits. :lol:
 
Not trying to discredit ALRI. I'm a big fan of their products, and this was an one of the first things we looked into using; however, I didn't feel comfortable putting into the final product for such reasons.

BTW, when you gave me your phone#, you only gave me 6 digits. :lol:

I am not that easy :chick:
 
There they go trying to control us like drones again, one day they will realize we were on the cutting / bleeding edge of supplmentation :D

Much Love

Neoborn

/weird goat stuff
 
ok guys thanks but could we get back on track here :)

Thanks


CROWLER
 
Thanks for the question. It will be a capped product.


CROWLER
 
I have another question.

What suggestions would you have for a label for this product.

I was thinking a yellow label very similar to Cycle Support but worded like this POST Cycle Support

Or do you think make the label basically the same colors etc as Cycle Support but the red bold saying POST Cycle Support ?

Thoughts?


CROWLER
 
I have another question.

What suggestions would you have for a label for this product.

I was thinking a yellow label very similar to Cycle Support but worded like this POST Cycle Support

Or do you think make the label basically the same colors etc as Cycle Support but the red bold saying POST Cycle Support ?

Thoughts?


CROWLER


it would be nice a labe something like this but with a read STAMP like letters or some other type of letter.

i dont have photoshop on this computer so thats why it looks so crapy

lable_cycle_support_smaller_version_ezr.jpg
 
it would be nice a labe something like this but with a read STAMP like letters or some other type of letter.

i dont have photoshop on this computer so thats why it looks so crapy

lable_cycle_support_smaller_version_ezr.jpg

From your inspiration:

Invalid Link Removed
 
Try and keep it clean on threads with an actual purpose fellas. Hitting every thread with talks of goat sex is a bit much...even for me.
 
I like the label idea, of keeping it close to the same as Cycle Support and changing the coloring...

...keep the font the same though.
 
Sorry about that I missed your post.

We don't have any current plans to change the sweetner.

We have a capped version of Cycle Support by the name of Life Support.

It is available at Nutra Planet. It is half the dosage of Cycle Support.

Thanks again.


CROWLER


Oh cool! Glad to hear it. I will use the caps. Dunno what it is...used splenda for over 2 yrs then all of the sudden it knocks me on my azz.

Thanks for the post.
 
I have another question.

What suggestions would you have for a label for this product.

I was thinking a yellow label very similar to Cycle Support but worded like this POST Cycle Support

Or do you think make the label basically the same colors etc as Cycle Support but the red bold saying POST Cycle Support ?

Thoughts?


CROWLER

I like the Cycle Support label, so I would go with the same label, but different color laid out like neoborn's version.
 
Anyways, fwiw I have used a 6-bromo product in PCT and I loved it. Unfortunately I have no before/after bloodwork to prove that it did or did not cause further supression (I doubt it though).

And just for clarification you are recommending this product WITH a SERM for PCT?
 
Anyways, fwiw I have used a 6-bromo product in post cycle therapy and I loved it. Unfortunately I have no before/after bloodwork to prove that it did or did not cause further supression (I doubt it though).

And just for clarification you are recommending this product WITH a SERM for PCT?

This product was created with the thought of newbs refusing to buy a SERM in mind. I'm sure you'll agree they need something that will do a little more than the run of the mill "Trib + ATD" PCT products they're using.

Mind you, there isn't data out there comparing this to a SERM; therefore, I don't have the grounds to come out and say "It's ok use this instead of a SERM".

If taken with a SERM, this would definitely potentiate the effects.


As for 6-bromo,

You have to understand 2 things about this guy:

1) It is very selective of the aromatase enzyme. This means that it will bind to the aromatase much more readily than it will convert to an active steroid (which would cause suppression.
2) It does a fantabulous job of raising endogeneous testosterone; therefore, the slight suppression which it could theoretically cause would be masked by your increase in natural testosterone. Think of it like taking two steps forward, and then taking one step back as opposed to taking one step forward: either way, it'll get you to the same spot.
 
This product was created with the thought of newbs refusing to buy a SERM in mind. I'm sure you'll agree they need something that will do a little more than the run of the mill "Trib + ATD" post cycle therapy products they're using.

Mind you, there isn't data out there comparing this to a SERM; therefore, I don't have the grounds to come out and say "It's ok use this instead of a SERM".

If taken with a SERM, this would definitely potentiate the effects.

Yes, I would definitely agree with you on the newbie part of it. And I like your answer a lot regarding data available for these ingredients. I would have had to argue with you (or tried to) if you said they are or are not as effective as a SERM.

The more and more I read on res and other products it seems these could potentially be as good if not better than SERMs. I am just not as good at breaking down studies and research as you and others are here, so I definitely respect your opinion.

Check your PM's bro...
 
Yes, I would definitely agree with you on the newbie part of it. And I like your answer a lot regarding data available for these ingredients. I would have had to argue with you (or tried to) if you said they are or are not as effective as a SERM.

The more and more I read on res and other products it seems these could potentially be as good if not better than SERMs. I am just not as good at breaking down studies and research as you and others are here, so I definitely respect your opinion.

Check your PM's bro...

Resveratrol is a tight compound. The research seems very promising, and it is one of the big hitters in the formula. However, there isn't enough information for me to be able to say "This is as good or better than a SERM".

I'm sure a few years down the line, Click Chemistry will kick in on this fella and the Pharmaceuticals people will create a series of Resveratrol-derived drugs that will knock you're socks off.
 
Ok I'll say it, This is as good or better than a regular SERM! That's right you heard me, prove me wrong, try the product / get bloodwork and you will see it's awesome! ( or we'll see it's not by the bloodwork and then definitely will not say this again :D! )

Calling all you shutdown roid raged muscle monkeys to the test trials!

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
Is this product usable at all for someone NOT coming off of cycle?
How/why would it affect them?

What would be the rundown of effects in the average male?
 
Is this product usable at all for someone NOT coming off of cycle?
How/why would it affect them?

What would be the rundown of effects in the average male?

This product would be very effective for the average male.

Resveratrol and Icariin are not only effectinve in raising testosterone levels, but a strong antioxidants, liver/kidney protectants, and have anticancer properties (especially promising for breast and prostate cancer). Horny Goat weed also functions similarly to an adaptogenic herb (similar to herbs like Rhodiola, Ginseng, & Eluthero), despite not being labeled specifically for it.

So yeah, this sucker is wicked for an everyday run, despite being designed specifically for post cycle users.
 
Crowler...GREAT product my friend. And the "hands", Sinner --- well done man. I love the things you included and even the ones you didn't include for the reasons listed.

Big props to AI for actually listening to the BB community and then delivering. Well done guys :clap2:
 
That sounds great. What about the 6-bromo?
How does that effect a natural male or someone with slightly lower than average testosterone levels?

This product would be very effective for the average male.

Resveratrol and Icariin are not only effectinve in raising testosterone levels, but a strong antioxidants, liver/kidney protectants, and have anticancer properties (especially promising for breast and prostate cancer). Horny Goat weed also functions similarly to an adaptogenic herb (similar to herbs like Rhodiola, Ginseng, & Eluthero), despite not being labeled specifically for it.

So yeah, this sucker is wicked for an everyday run, despite being designed specifically for post cycle users.
 
That sounds great. What about the 6-bromo?
How does that effect a natural male or someone with slightly lower than average testosterone levels?

6-bromo raises testosterone 2 ways:

1) It blocks the aromatase enzyme, which is what turns androgens (i.e. testosterone) into estrogens.

2) It decreases estrogen levels. When this happens, your body produces more testosterone in hopes that the aromatase enzyme will turn it into estrogen.
 
sinner and anyone reading

i havent been feeling good at all while taking
SERM
diesel test hardcore
restore

can i drop restore? some say i should or can and some say i should keep it. i know ive bothered most of you asking this already but still confused

thanks for any help.

i got 150g of bold14ad :)
 
How are you feeling that you're not feeling well?

If you suspect it's from restore, I'd say drop it like it's hot. You really don't need Diesel Test or Restore to run 'post cycle therapy', those are more like "bonus supps" in my opinion.
 
headaches, throats feeling weird, chest feeling weird, idk im just a weird guy might not be related. but i think im gonna run a week no restore and see how i feel. if diff then good. if not then o well
 
is there going to be any special offers to loyal A.M. users and loyal fans/users of A.I. products????????
 
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