Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Does science support the existence of God?

Status
Not open for further replies.
dsade said:
I had an uncle who "knew" he was Napoleon...knew it in his heart.
Click to expand...

But due to this belief was he able to help anyone else that was going through the stresses of Napoleon syndrome.:D
 
EESCHMan said:
Why is it that the believers (in these threads who found God all of a sudden) were all in bad situations: depressed, in a cult, drugs, etc?
Click to expand...

There is likely a high correlation here. Are you implying that these people are less reliable or should be discredited because of their past? It doesn't really make a difference to me who a believer is, as long as they're not pushing unsolicited ideas on me. And no, I don't think this thread is particularly forcing any religious ideas on anyone. We all made the choice to click the link to see what it was about instead of ignoring it. I'm more interested in the explanations and reasoning here. I don't believe at all that a person's past experiences have to reflect in their current or future ones. Who you were yesterday is not who you have to be today or tomorrow.
 
EESCHMan said:
Why is it that the believers (in these threads who found God all of a sudden) were all in bad situations: depressed, in a cult, drugs, etc?

"So, in the mist of depression, and everything i was going through and there were so many things i was confused about"

"Ive lived a past that Im not proud of and Ive done things that Ill probably never repeat.I didnt have a science background to evaluate Gods existence but I have had a few supernatural experiences that science will NEVER explain outside of divine intervention.My past is riddled with everything that you can imagine besides actual murder and that one almost came to pass.I was into the occult and Ive experienced "evil" which I now know as demonic presences/forces"

Don't you think that has something to do with your belief?

Why is it that murderers all of a sudden are born again?

It seems you are in a "bad place" and need "something" to make you feel better/worthy...
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. I was a goody two-shoes when I was born again. I didn't drink. I didn't do drugs or kill anyone. I just knew in my heart that Jesus had died for my sins, and wanted to open up to it.

Not to mention, if you look in the bible, God always chooses the most unlikely candidates for prophetic journeys. Noah (a good example) was a good-for-nothing drunk when he was asked to build the ark.
 
thesinner said:
Not to mention, if you look in the bible, God always chooses the most unlikely candidates for prophetic journeys. Noah (a good example) was a good-for-nothing drunk when he was asked to build the ark.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that, but I like it. Fits well with the idea that it's possible that the best leaders are the ones that never wanted to lead in the first place. I'm not sure where I'm remembering that from.
 
mmowry said:
There are many people that havent had to live through such trauma and found God.But to answer your question the bible says "he whos forgiven much loves much" and its now because of this love for people and their wellbeing that I tell of my experience that it may encourage someone and give them hope.

My question is why is it that you are standing up against something you dont believe in?
Click to expand...

I'm not standing up against it, I'm trying to understand why people believe in something without evidence.

Also, the only reason I started posting was because of the original topic.
 
bitterplacebo said:
There is likely a high correlation here. Are you implying that these people are less reliable or should be discredited because of their past? It doesn't really make a difference to me who a believer is, as long as they're not pushing unsolicited ideas on me. And no, I don't think this thread is particularly forcing any religious ideas on anyone. We all made the choice to click the link to see what it was about instead of ignoring it. I'm more interested in the explanations and reasoning here. I don't believe at all that a person's past experiences have to reflect in their current or future ones. Who you were yesterday is not who you have to be today or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I'm not implying that they are less reliable...more that they were in emotional states that would be more acceptable to believing in something.

"It doesn't really make a difference to me who a believer is, as long as they're not pushing unsolicited ideas on me.

that is how I am...but when you make a claim that science proves God, I have an issue with it.
 
Just don't point and laugh, like that group of children did to Elijah....god will send 42 bears to maul you to death.
 
thesinner said:
Not necessarily true. I was a goody two-shoes when I was born again. I didn't drink. I didn't do drugs or kill anyone. I just knew in my heart that Jesus had died for my sins, and wanted to open up to it.

Not to mention, if you look in the bible, God always chooses the most unlikely candidates for prophetic journeys. Noah (a good example) was a good-for-nothing drunk when he was asked to build the ark.
Click to expand...

Ah, Noah's Ark...I asked this question somewhere else and nobody answered...

How did Noah and his family build a gigantic boat (out of wood no less!) and take care of EVERY SINGLE SPECIES IN THE WORLD?!
 
EESCHMan said:
I'm not standing up against it, I'm trying to understand why people believe in something without evidence.
Click to expand...

Well, you understand this wrong. Why you keep saying people don't have evidence? Everyone who believes in God at some point got evidence from God, it might not mean anything to you or you won't count it as the evidence, but it means a lot to that person who experienced God in his/her life.
 
DmitryWI said:
Well, you understand this wrong. Why you keep saying people don't have evidence? Everyone who believes in God at some point got evidence from God, it might not mean anything to you or you won't count it as the evidence, but it means a lot to that person who experienced God in his/her life.
Click to expand...

ok, physical evidence...not a feeling
 
EESCHMan said:
I'm not implying that they are less reliable...more that they were in emotional states that would be more acceptable to believing in something.

"It doesn't really make a difference to me who a believer is, as long as they're not pushing unsolicited ideas on me.

that is how I am...but when you make a claim that science proves God, I have an issue with it.
Click to expand...

I didn't think anyone was making a claim the science proves god, but people have been giving scientific evidence (theories/logic/physics laws) that seem to support the concept of god, but also some that point out deficiencies. The title of the thread is a question, not a statement.

So I'm also confused why you keep asking about evidence, there seemed to be at least some here in this thread that hasn't been just faith or gut feeling.
 
DmitryWI said:
I just asked God about it, because I honestly didn't know the answer and here's the answer.

He handed Noah a boat, so Noah didn't build it himself. There were not as many animals on Earth as we have right now. And the most important thing is God was helping him.
Click to expand...

So the bible got it all wrong?
 
bitterplacebo said:
I didn't think anyone was making a claim the science proves god, but people have been giving scientific evidence (theories/logic/physics laws) that seem to support the concept of god, but also some that point out deficiencies. The title of the thread is a question, not a statement.

So I'm also confused why you keep asking about evidence, there seemed to be at least some here in this thread that hasn't been just faith or gut feeling.
Click to expand...

I think Dr. D's first post indicates that he believes that what he wrote is scientific proof of God.

I don't recall any evidence that wasn't faith/feeling.
 
DmitryWI said:
Bible was written by people and then translated by people again... I don't dismiss Bible but it has mistakes in it for sure.
Click to expand...

Then perhaps Jesus never came back to life...was that an error? Maybe there WAS no flood...another error? Maybe the whole Garden of Eden thing...another error?

and by what faculty does one determine what was error, and what is accurate?
 
EESCHMan said:
Ah, Noah's Ark...I asked this question somewhere else and nobody answered...

How did Noah and his family build a gigantic boat (out of wood no less!) and take care of EVERY SINGLE SPECIES IN THE WORLD?!
Click to expand...

This is actually one of the more specified sections of the Bible.

First off, it wasn't a boat. Noah had never been out on the water before, and had never seen a boat or really knew how to build one. The ark (from my interpretation) was essentially a giant shoebox made from wood and sod. It took him a VERY long time to build. If you look in your Bible, the mention the dimensions of the ark as well as how long it took for Noah to build it (it took longer than I have been alive to build this thing).

This being the tedious task that it was, it wasn't as though God said, "Hey, tomorrow it's gonna rain for 40 days straight and flood the earth. I need you to build a boat and round up a male and female of the following animals...."


Well, it's past my bedtime. Sinner out!
 
DmitryWI said:
I just asked God about it, because I honestly didn't know the answer and here's the answer.

He handed Noah a boat, so Noah didn't build it himself. There were not as many animals on Earth as we have right now. And the most important thing is God was helping him.
Click to expand...

God was talking to you tonight?
 
dsade said:
Does the word "Schizophrenia" mean anything to you?
Click to expand...

The contents of Revelation do not suggest that the writer was schizophrenic, if that's your implication. On the contrary, it possesses far too much confrontation and continuity.
 
Dr. John said:
This is what throws things off for the literal interpretationists. The bible has been revised and changed so many times: which version is actually God's true word?

Jews believe these are stories, inspired by God, meant to teach us important lessons about life.
Click to expand...

As far as I know there's not one single religious script that contains all the truths. This is why God wants everyone to learn how to communicate with Him and learn the truth for themselves directly from God and stop all the fighting about who's right and who's wrong.
 
So are all the people on here refusing the fact that God exists? or the fact that God created everything?

I believe both, God does exist and did create everything.
 
dsade said:
Does the word "Schizophrenia" mean anything to you?
Click to expand...

DR.D said:
The contents of Revelation do not suggest that the writer was schizophrenic, if that's your implication. On the contrary, it possesses far too much confrontation and continuity.
Click to expand...

I don't think implying or even knowing that someone was schizophrenic should discredit them in this debate. It takes a lot of courage to say that I, myself, was told 3-4 years ago by a doctor that I may have mild schizophrenia in addition to other psychological issues (schizoaffective disorder I think), but hopefully my own example can put us past this and on to other areas that could be more significant to the debate.

I feel schizophrenia covers a large amount of disorders, some which influence credibility, some that don't. A quick list I found:

"People diagnosed with schizophrenia usually experience a combination of positive (i.e. hallucinations, delusions, racing thoughts), negative (i.e. apathy, lack of emotion, poor or nonexistant social functioning), and cognitive (disorganized thoughts, difficulty concentrating and/or following instructions, difficulty completing tasks, memory problems)."

Myself, for example, exhibit mostly only the negative symptoms mentioned (flattened emotional expression, poverty of speech, very poor social functioning), few positive symptoms (racing thoughts, some paranoia, and possible times of disorganized speech), and not a lot of cognitive symptoms. I'd say my thoughts are rather organized when I'm working on something, I have an excellent memory and capacity to learn. The only issue is sometimes expressing thoughts verbally to others.

I think my main point is that it's hard to tell based only on writing whether the person should be discredited for being delusional. So would this make it inconclusive to bring up the issue of mental disorders here? If you want, though, you're welcome to read any of my writing to compare and evaluate for credibility now that you know a secret of mine, but hopefully in the least bit, it demonstrates an unstable person can make meaningful contributions.
 
dsade said:
Then perhaps Jesus never came back to life...was that an error? Maybe there WAS no flood...another error? Maybe the whole Garden of Eden thing...another error?

and by what faculty does one determine what was error, and what is accurate?
Click to expand...


I love the theist argument about this. well done
 
MrTotality said:
I love the theist argument about this. well done
Click to expand...

Remember, that was NOT my argument. I stand on the Bible. It is either 100% true or 100% false, but you can not pick and choose from it as you like and there has got to be a standard so dsade's arguments have STILL failed to antagonized my premise. DmitryWI will have to defend his own views, but no man here has yet to provide support against my main points. Get back to thermodynamics, Newton's 3'rd, etc.. anybody?.... I'm all ears. :)
 
PumpYouUp said:
So are all the people on here refusing the fact that God exists? or the fact that God created everything?

I believe both, God does exist and did create everything.
Click to expand...

Good for you Pump! A honorable man stands up for the truth he's found. It takes courage to stand on your beliefs went the majority are against you. I wish a few more around here would too.
 
"The religion of one age is the literary entertainment of the next." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I've found this thread to be very entertaining. Thank you.
 
EESCHMan said:
Why don't you understand?!

I don't believe in God, thus, I don't believe he created anything (cause he doesn't exist!)
Click to expand...

The point is that your argument contradicts itself. How can you define something you don't even believe in? How can you say "I don't believe he created anything" when you don't even think he exists? Your statement should only be:

"I don't believe in God", period. No need to give him credit for not creating something if he doesn't even exist, right? Or, maybe this is evidence you actually DO believe in God on some primal, subconscious level. ;)
 
DR.D said:
Good for you Pump! A honorable man stands up for the truth he's found. It takes courage to stand on your beliefs went the majority are against you. I wish a few more around here would too.
Click to expand...

Bring 'em out! Bring 'em out! Don't confuse my lack of participation in this thread w/my not being faithful! Y'all are just waaaay smarter than me and you (Dr. D) seem to be doing a great job. Don't think I haven't noticed! Now bring me some Phillistines to smite! :saw:
 
The answer to the question "Does god exist" can never be proven either way. Neither "yes" nor "no" is proveable to that question by the very nature by which most define "god".

As such, the question is completely pointless to ask and irrelevant since it does not in any way have an effect anything at all. One might as well ask "Does a froobar snoobadoob?" It's utter nonsense that has no purpose or reason.


Btw, all infants are atheists.
 
Bionic said:
How do you know for sure?
Click to expand...


Because infants don't know anything. Children don't know the word or concept of "god" until they are told it. In isolated societies that don't address the issue, children may develop the concept as a catchall explanation for things they don't understand. i.e. when they don't understand a particular physical phenomena, they'll invent a supernatural power to explain it away to make themselves feel better. It's called an "argument from ignorance" and is the basis of all god theories. It's also a logical fallacy.

The concept of a creator has come to be because due to our own mental limitations, human beings have difficulty with the concept of things which do not have a beginning. Thus a "need" for a creator. Ironically the answer to "who created the creator" is typically answered with something along the lines of "he just is, stop asking questions!" Ironic because the correct answer to "who created the universe"" is "no one; it has always existed." That has in fact been scientifically proven by the 1st law of thermodynamics.
 
Bionic said:
Bring 'em out! Bring 'em out! Don't confuse my lack of participation in this thread w/my not being faithful! Y'all are just waaaay smarter than me and you (Dr. D) seem to be doing a great job. Don't think I haven't noticed! Now bring me some Phillistines to smite! :saw:
Click to expand...

funny, made me chuckle out loud

:lol:
 
Nullifidian said:
The answer to the question "Does god exist" can never be proven either way. Neither "yes" nor "no" is proveable to that question by the very nature by which most define "god".

As such, the question is completely pointless to ask and irrelevant since it does not in any way have an effect anything at all. One might as well ask "Does a froobar snoobadoob?" It's utter nonsense that has no purpose or reason.


Btw, all infants are atheists.
Click to expand...


I was thinking on the way to the gym, okay what would I rather want? For me to live another 30-50 years and then I am done. That’s all of me. No more consciousness just see ya.
(God does not exist)

Or, on the other hand what if God is there and the things He says according to the Bible are truly true. That means:
1. I get to be with him forever, He answers all my questions and doubts
2. I see all my loved ones who were believers too
3. We live in a place that is “paradise” new heaven new earth Ruled by total righteousness, fairness, love, peace, where all my desires are fulfilled

Moreover, another sobering thought is; if He is there He says, Hell is real too (very hot, no weights, no sports, no fun)

All He really wants is a little Trust.

To step out in faith,

To be like a child and reach out

Oh, that we might know the LORD! Let us press on to know him. He will respond to us as surely as the arrival of dawn or the coming of rains in early spring.

That’s a pretty darn good promise since every morning I get up the dawn is there to greet me.
 
Is science not man made? Does man not make mistakes? Then even if the bible is wrong and science is wrong, God is not wrong. You see his creations everyday, everywhere, even when you look in the mirror.
God loves all of us, even those who don't believe.
 
I have not read this whole thread so forgive if this has been asked but I wonder why would you want science to prove the existence of God?

Isn't the idea of it to have faith?

Prove the existence of God, and conversely the Devil, and humans are robbed of free will. It is for us to choose, and perhaps in doubt lies faith.

It reminds me of the saying: true character is determined by your actions when no one is watching. Knowing, beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists, would alter behavior, regardless of what the person truly feels.
 
Nullifidian said:
The concept of a creator has come to be because due to our own mental limitations, human beings have difficulty with the concept of things which do not have a beginning. Thus a "need" for a creator. Ironically the answer to "who created the creator" is typically answered with something along the lines of "he just is, stop asking questions!" Ironic because the correct answer to "who created the universe"" is "no one; it has always existed." That has in fact been scientifically proven by the 1st law of thermodynamics.
Click to expand...

The 1st Law of Thermodynamics tells us that energy is neither created nor destroyed but those laws dont apply to the 1 who created these laws.

Humans used to think the Earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around it.Humans also thought the world was flat.So much for our infinite wisdom and knowledge.

And in reference to the bolded statement the very same argument can apply to evolutionist "theory".So the ever expanding universe always was and we know this because we(humans) are the apex of wisdom and intellegence?Or just maybe there is a Creator who is so vastly superior to us that our finite minds cant explain it.so in our pride we'll dismiss it but yield to the notion that all the inanimant matter in the universe just was.

Order from choas with no intellegence governing the where,why and how it all just "worked out".It takes alot more faith to believe this than in the Creator.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top