friction515
Member
So no results today?
IBE is in TROUBLE!!!!!!!
- Thread starter fibercarbon
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poopypants
Banned
Funny on the zombie thing. I'm watching a show ion the history channel on zombies
WHAT??? i love the history channel never heard of that special! how they go about that? explorin the myths behind em or something?
n as for you dagecko go ahead and take either, @ least one is far from bunk and youll still get exactly what your lookin for with both..... as for the test results.... im SO suprised they aint shown up yet.
poopypants
Banned
tight just thought id tune up into the hist and comin on next is the special "Bloodlines/Dracula Family Tree".... guessing wether vampire or not there may have been a Count dracula????
friction515
Member
So 1fast dissapeared also without posting results when stated thats awsome.
poopypants
Banned
without an alleged excuse either..... sure he'll say he had no new news so didnt want to get into it..... in other words cant think of the excuse, in all actuality if he says one day that he thinks theyll be ready tomorrow and he reallyexpected that then why not say "well labs still not got back to me yet, will update tomorrow".... although im sure well keep hearing that for an indefinate period anyhow....
this is just a dog and pony show, it COULD benifit, IF it had been done by now.... but since it hasnt were only left with a feeling of deceit and no proof behind alleged claims made by another chemist that fast took upon himself to spread around the boards...... then he becomes a competitor. "OH WHAT TANGLED WEBS WE WEAVE, WHEN WE PRACTICE TO DECEIVE," momma always said.
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friction515
Member
All I can say is weak. ****ing weak.
hardknock
Well-known member
While I do agree with the rationale of the last 2 sentences, I honestly wish this thing could have been done internally and not brought to the public BEFORE any one knew the actual facts (all not some).....
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
Guess we should give it a few more days. But, I wouldn't be surprised if nothing comes up. That's the great part about all the drama in the industry--at the end of the day, it never gets resolved and everyone just pretends it never happened in hopes that everyone will forget about it.
poopypants
Banned
in all honesty who says it never DID happen.... all we have are 3rd party claims of an emailed GC/MS that could have been fudged or never existed in the first place. regardless of ibes stance at the end of the day Mike had his chance with permission to post those results at one time as did anyone else who had them and they never did.... so were they there? maybe. were they accurate?? not likely... and was this really all for the good of the consumers? well tell me how good you feel and you got your answer. this was a pure case of epsionage and deceipt and i have yet to see as has anyone else some good reliable 3rd party evidence that these claims are neither true or false and ive had time to run an entire succesful cycle throughout this whole ordeal..... im callin bulls**t
jerlion777
New member
:gas: results where? tick, tock ,tick ,tock, funny. hey 1fast where are ya.
1Fast400
Well-known member
Jesus ****ing christ. I hosted a birthday party yesterday for some friends. You mind find it surprising, but coming to this board wasn't my top priority on friday. I put an email into the lab friday morning and got this response:
I hope you guys with all your conspiracy theories realize how stupid you look when you post this crap. Poopy, you are an idiot. I have explained 100x why I couldn't post patricks results. You are to dense to understand or you just don't want to read the truth, I have no clue. If you'll just calm down for another 48-72 hours, I'm sure the lab will get the results done. As I have stated FROM DAY 1, I will post up whatever they give me. You guys are funny
I hope you guys with all your conspiracy theories realize how stupid you look when you post this crap. Poopy, you are an idiot. I have explained 100x why I couldn't post patricks results. You are to dense to understand or you just don't want to read the truth, I have no clue. If you'll just calm down for another 48-72 hours, I'm sure the lab will get the results done. As I have stated FROM DAY 1, I will post up whatever they give me. You guys are funny
PumpingIron
Well-known member
Dwight Schrute
I am faster than 80% of all snakes
Blasphemy!
ddouble
New member
Agreed.
By the logic displayed by some posters, shouldn't you be giving IBE a hard time too, asking for their results and calling BS on them? They haven't posted anything yet either.
Futhermore, if you're not going to believe anything but a pro-IBE result, why do you some of you care how fast the results are posted? A lot of you guys seem to have your minds made up already anyway.
poopypants
Banned
well you sure as hell had no problem blabbing your mouth about em.... that could be considered libel and slander, and you call us funny..... Fast your nothin but a joke and i cant wait for your "results" to get back then see IBE unleash hell on you. GL ass
nephilim666
Well-known member
what is taking IBE so longto ship to their retailers? is it the lab tests that havent come back? i ordered 3 weeks ago and the awnser i get changes every ****ign day. wtf is up?
rpen22
Board Sponsor
This is from the Epi thread in the BPN forum:
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nephilim666
Well-known member
so should i just cancel my order wiht BPN??
1Fast400
Well-known member
Then IBE should take me to court, haha. Ain't going to happen. If IBE gave patrick permission to post the results, I can't control what he does. That is why I got this bottle tested in the first place. So at least there would be ONE result that was tested and published.
Yeah yeah, you're nothing but.....a....a...joke, yeah that's it. I can't wait to see how IBE is going to "unleash" hell on me. All I'm going to do is post the lab report I get. Unlike IBE, I will post the results I have. There is no such thing as a COC letter, whcih they claim is preventing them from posting their results (which they got 2 weeks ago??). Funny how nobody is busting them on that. In this exact thread they were bragging about posting them. Didn't you find it odd they didn't? Hmmmmm, wonder why???????????????????? I've dotted my I's and crossed my T's. The bottle came from a retailer in Michigan I believe it was. The lab ordered it, I never touched it and they tested it. It's the same lab IBE is supposed to be using now. So I can't wait for IBE to "unleash" hell on me. An underground company going to take me to court? Sure, you're local drug dealer will be suing you next.
BTW, the reason Lake posted what he did, go back and look at what bruce said. I don't always agree with bruce, but that dude knows china better than anyone, including myself. There is ONE place in china that has been selling this stuff, IBE wasn't buying from them. That is why bruce was convinced this stuff wasn't real. He knows the guy that owns the place. Realize bruce has family there and goes there a few times a year. Bruce is the only person on the boards that has ever been to china and toured factories. You guys should really clear your heads, re-read a lot of what has happened and you might see a bit of a different picture. Especially if you take your hatred of me out of it.
DR.D
Well-known member
I don't understand, what's the imperative again? How can IBE refute something before it even exists? That is a formal absurdity because it defies the law of contradiction. There is no need to defend anything until it is actually attacked, right? When some tangible results replace the hot air blowing around, IBE will then have a reason to defend itself. They are totally innocent until then and will need to be proved otherwise (which ain't gonna happen.) They have no need to post squat just because a few jerk offs wanna start trouble. I'm actually glad that they have not dignified that kind of crap by posting any results, but have also advised them to respond promptly if that does occur, leaving NO DOUBT what the real deal is going on here. It just sux because while the consumer usually profits from the extra testing, everybody will actually get hurt from this guy forcing the issue because it puts a huge bull's-eye on these products and can only bring trouble. Why should he care, he made his money already and sells protein powders now! Hope you guys like protein because this kind of publicity is what will make it the only option here pretty soon. Hmmm, good business move, if it doesn't backfire really really bad that is.
Let's think about results for a minute. For example, take a compound with a molecular weight of 321 that possesses an episulfide and a hydroxyl function, which are it's two most libel groups in a GC/MS fragmentation. When injected into a testing system (reference my GC/MS tutorial on p.10), what would be the most likely result? The parent less the hydroxyl less the episulfide which would strip a proton with it (320.53-17.01-32.07-1.01=270.45~270) leaving an ion which would resemble the non alcoholic version of DMT (2-ene). Also, imagine that this product is 99+% pure and that the results and logs are stellar by almost all who try it.
Now imagine a hypothetical product that gives about 15 peaks when tested! Yeah, 15 different compounds in it and may not even contain the label ingredient at all. Not only that, but 2 of those peaks look as though they could be, well, something not good if you are sports tested. Plus there is a major impurity to top it all off! Imagine that this is a compound that you had been told was balls-on accurate only to find out that was a bull**** stunt designed to bash a product that was actually way more pure. That would be pretty messed up, huh? Before you judge IBE for anything else they have done or said, just wait guys! You will be totally enlightened and enraged by the claims this guy has made, because you will see clearly the nasty, greedy, utterly deceptive nature of the lies he tried to feed you. Like I said, the truth will be seem, it just sux that some people have to self-destruct and risk the whole industry to do it. But once he posts those results, that will be the only resolution I suppose, because then the truth will need to be exposed to defend their product. Oh well, so be it. As for myself, I am just sick of it all at this point and damn sure will never buy another PF product again knowing what I now know about the management.
See ya on Monday fellas.
propho
Well-known member
I wish I had any clue what that meant.. anyone got a Chemistry for Dummies e-book they can send me? =P
1Fast400
Well-known member
So by your own words the consumers are hurt by people testing the drugs you're selling? This is amazing. You have the balls to say that I AM putting a bull'seye on these products. How about trying to make a NOVEL LEGAL product and you won't have these issues. Stealing compounds from designer or opening up a vida book and pointing at a table and then ordering from china isn't exactly novel. Our industry wouldn't have all the neagtive publicity it has if it wasn't for these garage based companies. There is no difference than you and a crack dealer. Both of you sell crap that is illegal.
Just for fun, I went back and looked at some post by IBE from this thread, thought I would share:
IBE on 3-27:
Do you really think IBE is that stupid? No laws have been broken....there is truth behind the email verified by a 3rd party lab. Test results will be posted tonight and chain of custody will be following a few days after that
.
Invalid Link Removed
IBE on 3-29
We have been strongly advised to hold off on posting until the COC report is back. We will post all findings at that time....a day or 2.
Invalid Link Removed
Amazing, nothing has been posted. That's probably because testing was never done. It's the only thing that makes sense. They never sent anything out for testing, this has all been a big ass lie. Too funny.
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
It means that two of the functional groups, an episulfide, and an alcohol, popped off of the parent molecule during the gc/ms, making the molecular weight reported by the machine less than it is on paper.
This is very common, especially with alcohols. And, if you look at alcohols on the periodic table, you'll see S (sulfur, from the episulfide) is right underneath O (oxygen, from alcohols). The two atoms are very similar in behavior, as are all atoms in a column of the periodic table.
episulfide functional group: Invalid Link Removed
alcohol functinal group: Invalid Link Removed
epistane (you'll see both functional groups on the molecule): Invalid Link Removed
periodic table: Invalid Link Removed
Ubiquitous
Registered User
my cat's breath smells like cat food.
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
GC/MS and IR explained beautifully: Invalid Link Removed
jmh80
Well-known member
Alright - this is just f*cking retarded Mike.
Do you think Julius A. Vida gives out a recipe as to how to make a molecule?
Hell no!
There's a drawing of the molecule and the anabolic and androgenic numbers.
That's it.
Finished products don't just "pop" out of Vida's book.
Magic doesn't just happen over in China to turn what's on paper into a caplet sitting in a bottle.
Someone has to do the synthesis and purification leg work.
1Fast400
Well-known member
They then take said compound, email the name to china chem house and get a sample in 2 weeks.
PA is the ONLY person in the US attached to a supplement company doing ANY synthesis on any level, trust me. Nobody from IBE is doing any "leg work" as you say. They email china and it comes to them in a pretty little silver bag.
jmh80
Well-known member
I admit I'm not familiar with the chem houses you guys (I.E. company owners) are.
I've not seen a Chinese source that could come up with what is essentially a previously unknown chemical with just the name.
But - if they've got people that can come up with the reaction scheme themselves and get it correct - bravo.
Synthesis doesn't just imply lab work, Mike. I did synthesis on paper in Organic 2. (Then in the lab the next week - but that's beside the point.)
I'm not even remotely involved whatsoever in marketing a PH - but if I did, I'd devise my own reaction scheme and purification step and compare what the chem house in China was going to use - before they even started making a sample of the molecule.
But - due diligence is in the eye of the beholder.
Thanks for that tidbit Mike - didn't know how things worked over there for PH's.
I've not seen a Chinese source that could come up with what is essentially a previously unknown chemical with just the name.
But - if they've got people that can come up with the reaction scheme themselves and get it correct - bravo.
Synthesis doesn't just imply lab work, Mike. I did synthesis on paper in Organic 2. (Then in the lab the next week - but that's beside the point.)
I'm not even remotely involved whatsoever in marketing a PH - but if I did, I'd devise my own reaction scheme and purification step and compare what the chem house in China was going to use - before they even started making a sample of the molecule.
But - due diligence is in the eye of the beholder.
Thanks for that tidbit Mike - didn't know how things worked over there for PH's.
1Fast400
Well-known member
I hate to tell you, but this compound was known about 2 years ago. The reason why other companies didn't come out with it? Simple, it's illegal. Gaspari looked at it (hence why bruce knew where it was made) as did designer. This is NOT something new.
No you wouldn't. They are SO far ahead of us, it's not even funny. If it was as easy as you're trying to make it sound, everyone would be doing this. I hate to tell you, but it is UNGODLY hard to come up with something novel. PA is the only person to do it. He has millions, yes millions of dollars worth of equipment in his building. I visited him before he moved into this new building a few years ago. He had a closet full of glass bottles with vaious deskjet labels. I asked what they were, there were probably 200 in there. They were all failed attempts at making something novel/unique. You should hear him tell the story of actually developing 1-AD, it gave me a whole new respect for him. Ergo/PA is the only company/person that is a REAL chemist in this industry.
Having 20 grand worth of equipment like D and attempting to compare yourself to PA, not even close.
But - due diligence is in the eye of the beholder.
Thanks for that tidbit Mike - didn't know how things worked over there for PH's.
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
I'm curious as to how epistane is already illegal. Does anybody have an updated version of the ban-list?
And if its illegal because its literally a "steroid", that opens a whole new can of worms because there are tons of androstane derivatives we can consider steroids, even DHEA and what is/isn't defined as an illegal steroid on the DSHEA is just a function of who is impacted. E.G. AARP loves DSHEA (obviously never got a hold of some test) so DHEA stayed legal. Athletes and supp users had a horrifically weak lobby, so the goods they liked are now illegal.
And if its illegal because its literally a "steroid", that opens a whole new can of worms because there are tons of androstane derivatives we can consider steroids, even DHEA and what is/isn't defined as an illegal steroid on the DSHEA is just a function of who is impacted. E.G. AARP loves DSHEA (obviously never got a hold of some test) so DHEA stayed legal. Athletes and supp users had a horrifically weak lobby, so the goods they liked are now illegal.
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friction515
Member
Where do you get your information that China is so chemically far ahead of us?
What i think you mean is they are so far cheaper than us. That I would believe. You could also mean that they don't pay much attention to patent laws. That would be something else I would believe.
Once more how much chemistry education do you have Mike? How do you know what jmh80 would or would'nt do?
How much do you know about China's chemical engineering?
Do you study that much what studies or news articles to you have to show the superiority of their chemical manufacturing?
What i think you mean is they are so far cheaper than us. That I would believe. You could also mean that they don't pay much attention to patent laws. That would be something else I would believe.
Once more how much chemistry education do you have Mike? How do you know what jmh80 would or would'nt do?
How much do you know about China's chemical engineering?
Do you study that much what studies or news articles to you have to show the superiority of their chemical manufacturing?
1Fast400
Well-known member
You have no idea how pissed off Ergo, biotest and myself were at this industry during that time. We were the only people really putting in any money into the USFA to attempt to save something. 6-oxo was something we were able to save. I spent 75k on the usfa, biotest spent probably 150 and ergo spent even more. Everyone LOVED to stand there and rake in the cash from M1T/1-test, but when it came time to help out, they were nowhere to be found. All these good "bro" companies were out to lunch, like Legal Gear. The people that "invented" m1t, which they sold at 80 bucks a bottle when it cost them 6 to make, never gave a penny.
**** like that makes you bitter over time.
Moyer
board observer
I really hope people on this board don't think of Legal Gear as a good "bro" company. Yuck.
poopypants
Banned
once again results dont lie, def not est and if your claiming to keep cool then how come you mash out 2 or 3 responses before i ever get back in here. ITS NEVER YOU is it fast. well i dont know you and dont care to, i have no vendetta against you but you trash peeps like your the know it all of the world and make yourself look esp absurd when you turn and laugh the second a mod steps in, quit acting like your **** dont stink, and maybe youd get some respect round here.
1Fast400
Well-known member
Let me preface by saying that I'm speaking in regard to the nutrition industry only. When speaking with people within the US that attempt to make compounds, the chinese have been more capable at making novel items faster. I've seen it in my personal experience as have the people I've worked with.
Dude, nobody in our industry even knows what a patent is haha.
If JMH80 wants to sit and play chemist, he better line up a bunch of equipment, which will cost a fortune. Santa doesn't bring that type of equipment. So lets say you and JMH both start a company at the same time. You have a million bucks in seed money to start. Lets say JMH happens to find a lab where he has all the equipment and stuff he needs at no cost. You hire me to consult with you as you and JMH want to make the same type of product. Here is how it goes down.
We sit down and talk about what you want to make. I sent 5 emails out at midnight. 48 hours later I'll have half a dozen quotes for people that can make what we want to make (even if it is novel) and likely have a sample within 7 business days. We'll tell chinaman to send our sample to X address (which will be a lab address) and have it tested. If it comes out good, we order our fist lot of material. Send to lab for verification and then go into production. The entire time of this process is roughly 1 month to us having material.
JMH spends his first two weeks perfecting his molecule. He then sends it to someone in china who isn't going to give a rats us what he sent them. He then follows the same process we do. That two weeks he played with, just cost him a HUGE market share. So while he's playing chemist, you and I are taking PO's at the distributors and making cash. He feels a sense of accomplishment because he did his own deal. The chinese didn't care, they were doing it the way they wanted anyway. Hell, he likely would buy material from the same chem house and not even know it.
So the moral of the story. Sure, go create your own crap. I'll take the easy way out and let people who are more qualified do it. The key to a smart business man is knowing to hire the people that are the best at what they do. There is a reason we have ONE company in the industry with a real lab/chemist and about 200 others that don't.
poopypants
Banned
:goodpost:
1Fast400
Well-known member
Go back when M1T just came out, they were the ubercompany. They could do no wrong. People were swinging from Eric's nuts like crazy. They were "good bro's" that is all I heard. Which made me laugh knowing they were making up bottles of M1T by 74 bucks a bottle.
Please find ONE post where I said epi didn't work. I've always said that my only issue is mislabeling, period. The product is a steroid of some sort, what it is exactly seems to be in question. I mean hell, IBE can't even post a single testing result of their own. Hmmmmm
jmh80
Well-known member
I can say for sure with regard to the industrial portion of the chemical industry that China is not ahead of the US in terms of technology or "know how".
I know my company wouldn't put our proprietary reactors into a joint-venture in China - we knew it would be "stolen" and disseminated to the rest of the world. (Reverse engineered - whatever you want to call it.)
I'm surprised you say about the fine chemical industry though. But - it is what it is.
friction515
Member
Well by the looks of this mess Mike maybe it would'nt be such a great business move to just send a chemical structure off to china and have them make it happen so to say. If one were to provide a proper synthesis that was designed with good purification steps then maybe we would'nt have such crap on the market.
All I'm saying is it looks as though the fact that China made these chemicals is the basis for the bashing. So what good business sense is it to get the chemical out in as fast of a time as possible when a company supposidly has no idea what chemical they are getting anyway.
All I'm saying is it looks as though the fact that China made these chemicals is the basis for the bashing. So what good business sense is it to get the chemical out in as fast of a time as possible when a company supposidly has no idea what chemical they are getting anyway.
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