How to "pulse" orals

[thesinner]

I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?

I mix it in water, and it seems to pan out ok. I there's something in it that reacts with water, since when I mix it a light froth forms along the edges.

 

[gymrat5713]

Dr. D, I know alot of people have been asking u questions so hopefully one more doesn't hurt (or anyone else who would like to comment) It's too hard to fit all body parts into a 3 day workout schedule w/o staying in the gym all day, so tell me how this sounds. I want to do a pulse cycle for 8 weeks w/SD so how about if I dose 3 of the days like you specified but then on the forth day I only took 20mg? That way I can atleast get in 4 workout days while staying on an 8 week cycle and the 4th day wouldn't be nearly as much mg's. Thanks for bein there for all of us!:cheers:

 

[gladiator_75]

So what would you say about this?

I am 31 years old, 6 2 tall and started my 12 week cycle on January 15th. @ 243 Lbs and now I am almost done (within the last month) and this is how it was:

Weeks

1 – 12 sustanon @ 500mg EW
1 – 12 proviron @ 25 mg ED
1 – 6 Dbol @ 40 mg ED
6 – 12 HCG @ 500IU EW

post cycle therapy will start 2 week after last test injection & will be a basic Nolvadex 40 40 20 20 20 20 and I do have clomid on hand just in case but I would rather not use clomid unless I will need to keep sides down!

Now, I want to take Dbol from now till the end of my cycle and all the way up to the post cycle therapy especially that the Dbol have a very short half life!

So, can I use the pulse method to take the Dbol from now till the end of my cycle and up to the post cycle therapy (on the gym days only, which is 4 days/week or max. 5 days). I work out on a 2 days on 1 day off bases and depending on how I feel I can go for a 3rd day on a roll but not more than 3 days without a day off.

Do you guys think that this will be an over kill to my liver to use the Dbol again from now till the post cycle therapy? And if it is ok to use it, what dosage are we talking about? Keeping in mind that I toke 40mg ED for the first 6 weeks.

Can the pulse method work in this case?

Thanks for the help in advance

P.S: I do take Milk thistle along with other suppl. Do you think i should stop taking it coz it Dramatically decrese the gains!

Gladiator_75 :head:

Any feedback Dr. D ?

:dance:

 

[CRUNCH]

Very cool and interesting stuff Dr D!!!

I was going to run SD for three weeks before my next comp, but am most worried about such a rapid increase in strength I get from it that injuries are possible. I am now 6 weeks away and could pulse it with your protocol, get the strength, and not be so worried about rupturing any tendons (again!).

 

[JPM]

Dr. D, I know alot of people have been asking u questions so hopefully one more doesn't hurt (or anyone else who would like to comment) It's too hard to fit all body parts into a 3 day workout schedule w/o staying in the gym all day, so tell me how this sounds. I want to do a pulse cycle for 8 weeks w/superdrol so how about if I dose 3 of the days like you specified but then on the forth day I only took 20mg? That way I can atleast get in 4 workout days while staying on an 8 week cycle and the 4th day wouldn't be nearly as much mg's. Thanks for bein there for all of us!:cheers:

I'm in the same boat as you. I workout 6 days a week. That's why I'm looking at this 4 day routine, the good doctor provided in the original post:

Example of a 4x/wk pulse Sat,Sun & Wed,Thur:

Week/Dose(mg)
1 (10,20,30,30)
2 30
3 30-40
4 30-40
5 30-50
6 30-50

The only change I might make is not to go over 30 mg per day. Again, I have no idea what I'm going to do, just trying to gather all info I can.

 

[ShapeUP]

Yes, that is correct. Simple isn't it! I'm betting 95% of the guys here could get away with a plan like you stated. Everyone is different, so always have a plan B for post cycle therapy, but after you try it once you'll see what I mean and know what works best for you. Getting 2 consecutive off days a week and dosing close together pre and post is the real key.

Ok, well what about this.

I was going to stack SuperDrol and PheraPlex

My ratios are 2.5mg SD and 7.5mg PP 2x /d

SO Could I pulse this instead and run it out 8 weeks instead of 4 weeks. Run Torm for PCT and the NHA stack and be fine?

 

[gymrat5713]

I'm in the same boat as you. I workout 6 days a week. That's why I'm looking at this 4 day routine, the good doctor provided in the original post:



The only change I might make is not to go over 30 mg per day. Again, I have no idea what I'm going to do, just trying to gather all info I can.

Yeah thats what I'm thinking about(30mg for 3 of the days maybe 40 and then ony 20mg for the 4th day) that way maybe it would be alright to do an 8 weeker

 

[neoborn]

Hey Neo! Man, if you w/o 5 days a week, I'd really just run a normal cycle. That's the whole thing about pulsing, it doesn't fit well for 5, 6 or 7 training days per week. It's more for a softer training schedule like 3, 3.5 or 4 days per week.

I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?

I think I'll do four days a week then. the Powerfull is water soluble but man oh man what an f'n taste blewgh!

 

[supersoldier]

Are there any orals that you would advise against when pulsing?

I wouldn't pulse M1T personally. Here's some labwork showing almost complete shutdown within 3 days...

THIS IS YOUR LIVER ON METHYL-1-TEST!!!
I started a cycle of Legal Gear M1T only, 20mg/day (1tab approx. every 12 hours)

12/24/03 Blood drawn about 7.5 hours after ingestion of first tab, 25 min. after (a rather ****ty) chest and bicep workout. (All units of measurement will be listed on this post only) Total Bilirubin 1.2 mg/dl; Direct Bilirubin 0.2 mg/dl; ALP 79 IU/L; GGT16 IU/L; LD 192 IU/L; AST 52 IU/L (high, normal:15-41); ALT 49 IU/L; (end liver) Cholesterol 105mg/dL; Triglycerides 27mg/dl; Testosterone 436.77 ng/dl; Estradiol 43.18 pg/ml; LH 3.18 mIU/mL; FSH 0.64 mIU/ml; Progesterone 0.59 ng/ml; Prolactin 17.01 ng/ml ( up from 6.86 on 12/17) WBC 7.78 K/uL; RBC 5.56 M/uL; HCT 49.6-51.1 (ran twice, pretty high but it was the same on 12/12 when I was off cycle)

12/26/03 Day 3 Blood drawn about 11 hours after dosing, 5 hours after half a leg workout (I attempted to start OVT(Christian Thibadeau) today, squat's and lunges were incredible, strength was great, pump was sick, I got to one-legged back extensions, and I don't know if I was using poor form or if it was the M1T because I've been doing these for a while now with great success, but my lower back started hurting like a motherfu#@$% and I felt really lightheaded and naucious, so I stopped after three sets, there was no way I could deadlift so I went home) Anyway, Total Bilirubin 1.0; Direct Bilirubin 0.2; ALP 64; GGT 13; LD 229(high, norm 98-192); AST 57(higher); ALT 54; Cholesterol 80; Triglycerides 7; Testosterone 39.10 (it's working); Estradiol 6.9 ; LH 0.57, FSH 0.60; Progesterone 0.70; Prolactin 11.33; PSA 0.39 ng/ml; WBC 12.4; RBC 5.77; HCT 51.2

Well after 3 days I am definitely suppressed. What I find most interesting though, is that my WBC count went from 7.78 to 12.4 in three days. So either I caught something or there is definitely some truth to the "1-test flu". As far as the liver is concerned, levels are elevated but only slightly. My liver enzymes were WAY higher than this on T1-Pro, but that was a couple of weeks into my first cycle. I'll give it some time. Also I'll try to draw my next sample at 1 hour after dosing, to see if that makes a difference. But if my liver stays normal, than 60mg here i come!!!(J/K )

M1T methinks is an extreme case with any side(s) compared to just about any other oral.

 

[DR.D]

Dr. D, I know alot of people have been asking u questions so hopefully one more doesn't hurt (or anyone else who would like to comment) It's too hard to fit all body parts into a 3 day workout schedule w/o staying in the gym all day, so tell me how this sounds. I want to do a pulse cycle for 8 weeks w/superdrol so how about if I dose 3 of the days like you specified but then on the forth day I only took 20mg? That way I can atleast get in 4 workout days while staying on an 8 week cycle and the 4th day wouldn't be nearly as much mg's. Thanks for bein there for all of us!:cheers:

I'm always glad to help. You guys have been great for me and taught me a lot too so it's always my pleasure.

I talked with another guy doing something similar to you. He trained 5 days a weeks but was going to skip dosing on the 5'th day, but 4 doses are still workable in your case. Taking a smaller dose on the 4'th day is exactly the kind of innovative thinking it takes to make the most of pulsing! After awhile, you may find that you can take that last dose in full no problem, but at first, be conservative. The whole point is to get that extra boost while avoiding PCT, so your plan sounds like you're on the right track for sure!

 

[DR.D]

Any feedback Dr. D ?

:dance:

Daily use would be better heading into PCT. The dbol @ 40mg is nothing on your liver compared to 40mg Nolva! I would not use MT until PCT starts, then use in the first 3wks of Nolva dosing. Pulsing is bad news if you're headed into a PCT at the end of a long cycle and very suppressed.

NOW, if the hCG has kept you bouncing and your test levels are still pretty good, pulsing to the end would be just fine. It's an executive call really.

 

[DR.D]

Very cool and interesting stuff Dr D!!!

I was going to run superdrol for three weeks before my next comp, but am most worried about such a rapid increase in strength I get from it that injuries are possible. I am now 6 weeks away and could pulse it with your protocol, get the strength, and not be so worried about rupturing any tendons (again!).

Yes! The gains are slower, but they are more permanent long term with fewer tendencies toward injury. You got it man. Plus, it makes you really focus on your diet too, where you may have otherwise been a little sloppy, I mean not you specifically CRUNCH, but other people I know (like me!) lol

 

[macedaddy]

HEY NOW! just because i have an occasional pizza, no need to publicly call me out! LOL!

aren't you suppossed to be working on some new AX product? 3 BE or something like that?

:toofunny:

 

[DR.D]

Ok, well what about this.

I was going to stack SuperDrol and PheraPlex

My ratios are 2.5mg superdrol and 7.5mg PP 2x /d

SO Could I pulse this instead and run it out 8 weeks instead of 4 weeks. Run Torm for post cycle therapy and the NHA stack and be fine?

Yeah, that sounds good actually. I would have just taken 10mg PP pre and 10mg SD post, but your ratio sounds nice.

Your PCT sounds OK too, but 7-10d Tor would be plenty. You don't need conventional PCTs with this protocol. Once you experience "the bounce" you'll know what I mean!

 

[DR.D]

I wouldn't pulse M1T personally. Here's some labwork showing almost complete shutdown within 3 days...
M1T methinks is an extreme case with any side(s) compared to just about any other oral.

Man, that's a trip on the WBC counts. "Poison with anabolic effects", isn't that what you called it one time? lol

 

[CHAPS]

I think this will be good for those that are concerned with side effects, personally though i'd like 100% effect even if the sides are higher.

 

[DR.D]

HEY NOW! just because i have an occasional pizza, no need to publicly call me out! LOL!

aren't you suppossed to be working on some new AX product? 3 BE or something like that?

:toofunny:

Haha, I'll get back to work as soon as I finish MY pizza!

 

[dsw222]

Sorry to add to an increasingly large (and very valuable) thread but I had a few questions about this method for when you have some time (no rush)...

You talk about dbol being what you first used this with. Probably a stupid question, but I assume you were using test also? So like test for 12ish weeks and pulse dbol for 6-8 of them and then run post cycle therapy after the test? I have never used gear before (just began my first ever superdrol cycle) and this looks like a great way for me to start... after a few more months of research of course!

Also when you mention using the compound 3x a week for this method to be efficient... thats not the same for workouts correct? i.e. you can lift 5x a week but as long as you only use the gear on 3 of those workouts (switch between which workouts you use it on each week) then you're in the clear?

Lastly, would this method work good for Superdrol? I wasn't sure because with the cycle I just started, its been about 4 days and I still dont see any gains. It seems like if you only use it 3x a week then it will never have a chance to build up and therefore the gains would never come (or come extremely slowly). But I'm new to all of this and thats why its so useful to ask an expert like you! :thumbsup:

 

[yeahright]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to supersoldier again.

 

[DR.D]

I think this will be good for those that are concerned with side effects, personally though i'd like 100% effect even if the sides are higher.

You're at that age where I can understand what you mean! You're not young and overly cautious anymore but you're certainly not old and worried about accumulating toxicity, so why pulse? Plus, sometimes you just want maximum gains. It does work, but I agree with you that it doesn't suit everyone in all situations.

 

[KTL]

Isnt the 10/10 of PP and SD too little for pulsing? I remember reading that in a pulse it would be advantageous to dose higher since its only 3 times a week. I can see 10/10 working for a few days as suggested but after the first week would you want to signficantly kick that up? Just really curious as I just finished a PP cycle and at 30mg ED for 3 weeks I hardly noticed a change, I couldnt imagine only take 10-20 EOD.

 

[gators52]

One thing i'm still not understanding regarding pulsing orals is the fluctuating blood levels with compounds with short half lives (which is most orla). People seem to think that fluctuating blood levels contribute to certain side effects. Dr. D whats your take on fluctuating blood levels regarding pulsing orals. Also how much different would your answer be if the person was using test during the oral as well so maybe the levels wouldn't fluctuate as much.

 

[DR.D]

Isnt the 10/10 of PP and superdrol too little for pulsing? I remember reading that in a pulse it would be advantageous to dose higher since its only 3 times a week. I can see 10/10 working for a few days as suggested but after the first week would you want to signficantly kick that up? Just really curious as I just finished a PP cycle and at 30mg ED for 3 weeks I hardly noticed a change, I couldnt imagine only take 10-20 EOD.

You are right. I would likely do 20/10 in this scenario because I like 2:1 with PP/SD.

 

[DR.D]

One thing i'm still not understanding regarding pulsing orals is the fluctuating blood levels with compounds with short half lives (which is most orla). People seem to think that fluctuating blood levels contribute to certain side effects. Dr. D whats your take on fluctuating blood levels regarding pulsing orals. Also how much different would your answer be if the person was using test during the oral as well so maybe the levels wouldn't fluctuate as much.

That's the whole thing though. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The human body tries to balance the equation with endocrine cycles. Hormones go up, hormones go down, but they are never "steady". Just like a well pump cycles on when the pressure gets too low and cuts off when it reaches a programmed level, so does your test level. What the pulse does is cause a sudden, false high. When you are off the next day, you get a distinct, false low that the body response too very rapidly such that your test level bounces. Often ending higher that where it started. It is the fluctuation that allows this method to work because while steady state levels are more anabolic, they are also deeply suppressive. Try it man, then you'll see what I mean. You never know till you try!

 

[Zero Tolerance]

I'm going to try this with Dianabol when I'm ready to lift heavy again. I'll lift on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I'll take between 20-50mg of Dianabol on my training days and maybe a half dose on Saturday. How does that sound?

 

[CRUNCH]

Yes! The gains are slower, but they are more permanent long term with fewer tendencies toward injury. You got it man. Plus, it makes you really focus on your diet too, where you may have otherwise been a little sloppy, I mean not you specifically CRUNCH, but other people I know (like me!) lol

Focus on diet? What are you talking about???

So, 6 weeks of superdrol, something like this:

Week 1: 20mgs/3x/wk
Week 2: 20 mgs
Week 3: 30 mgs
Week 4: 30 mgs
Week 5: 40 mgs
Week 6: 40 mgs

Thanks again Dr D!!!

 

[gymrat5713]

Focus on diet? What are you talking about???

So, 6 weeks of superdrol, something like this:

Week 1: 20mgs/3x/wk
Week 2: 20 mgs
Week 3: 30 mgs
Week 4: 30 mgs
Week 5: 40 mgs
Week 6: 40 mgs

Thanks again Dr D!!!

I'm not saying this is what Dr.D means but with me I focus more on my diet while I'm on a cycle. So maybe he means that if your doing a cycle for 6 weeks instead of 3 you may be more likely to focus on your diet for a longer period of time. But then again your avatar looks perfect so it was probably leaned more towards me lol That 6 week cycle looks good, it makes me think if that's how I would rather pulse my cycle.

 

[CHAPS]

You're at that age where I can understand what you mean! You're not young and overly cautious anymore but you're certainly not old and worried about accumulating toxicity, so why pulse? Plus, sometimes you just want maximum gains. It does work, but I agree with you that it doesn't suit everyone in all situations.

Ya i'm wreckless, bring on the orals! lol j/k Ya you described me to a T actually, lol Your like a minature budha, ol

 

[sublimejeh]

Dr.D IS buddah... at least thats what I heard....


I can't wait to try pulsing- with either promagnon or epi within the next few months!

 

[CHAPS]

I can't wait to try Epi period, next cycle is going to be an 8 week bulker and i'll be including it.

 

[sublimejeh]

I can't wait to try Epi period, next cycle is going to be an 8 week bulker and i'll be including it.

Epi is sick

 

[CRUNCH]

I'm not saying this is what Dr.D means but with me I focus more on my diet while I'm on a cycle. So maybe he means that if your doing a cycle for 6 weeks instead of 3 you may be more likely to focus on your diet for a longer period of time. But then again your avatar looks perfect so it was probably leaned more towards me lol That 6 week cycle looks good, it makes me think if that's how I would rather pulse my cycle.

I knew what he meant, I was just attempting a joke.

 

[macedaddy]

I knew what he meant, I was just attempting a joke.

I was laughing, crunch! :toofunny:

 

[Distilled Water]

Hey Neo! Man, if you w/o 5 days a week, I'd really just run a normal cycle. That's the whole thing about pulsing, it doesn't fit well for 5, 6 or 7 training days per week. It's more for a softer training schedule like 3, 3.5 or 4 days per week.

I haven't tried the bulk Powerfull, is it water soluble?

Hey D, you and I talked about my planned 15 week pulse w/ P.C.T and you said it looked great, But I train 5 days a week also. I was going to use Anabolic Pump during this pulse. Would that allow me to stil see the benfits you and I discussed or should I look to a 3 day a week training schedule?

Or should I add something like Retain & mega-dose Anagen on off pulse days?

 

[DR.D]

Hey D, you and I talked about my planned 15 week pulse w/ P.C.T and you said it looked great, But I train 5 days a week also. I was going to use Anabolic Pump during this pulse. Would that allow me to stil see the benfits you and I discussed or should I look to a 3 day a week training schedule?

Or should I add something like Retain & mega-dose Anagen on off pulse days?

Hey Distilled, I still think you're good to go with 5 days training, but you should set it up such that the training day that doesn't get dosed is easier on the recovery. Your easies w/o basically. Off days are all about recovery and increased glycogen stores are observed before androgen induced protein synthesis occurs anyway, so the AP is a good option indeed, especially with pulsing, and is sits well with Epi in particular because of it E2b receptor selectivity, as we discussed earlier.

 

[CRUNCH]

I was laughing, crunch! :toofunny:

LOL...maybe I'll try another one later!

 

[gymrat5713]

LOL...maybe I'll try another one later!

Yeah do that, I leave the next one alone...I knew that:frustrate

 

[Jmuls]

Hey D,

I know you've said in the begining that running an oral in this pulsing method can allow you to avoid having to use a SERM during post cycle, but would a 2 week run be beneficial, just as a precautionary measure? Would anything else in addition to a short run of SERM be advised, such as an AI?

Also, do you recommend using anything else in conjunction with a pulsing cycle, such as something on the off days? I'm looking to remain safe, yet still want to maximize my results and make the best of the cycle.

Your thoughts and remarks are greatly appreciated! Great thread!

 

[DR.D]

... Also, do you recommend using anything else in conjunction with a pulsing cycle, such as something on the off days? I'm looking to remain safe, yet still want to maximize my results and make the best of the cycle. ...

Yeah, you can take a small dose of an AI on the off nights and a dose or two of an anti-cort on the off days. If you wanna do a small PCT, it wouldn't hurt, but after a month of 30-40mg epi straight no pulse, guys are saying they only needed like 7-10 days of tor to come back hard, then they had to stop early! So it really depends on what your taking. I would use MFX as a bridge in between pulses but a week or two of low dose SERM would not hurt. It just won't be necessary in most cases.

 

[Distilled Water]

Yeah, you can take a small dose of an AI on the off nights and a dose or two of an anti-cort on the off days. If you wanna do a small post cycle therapy, it wouldn't hurt, but after a month of 30-40mg epi straight no pulse, guys are saying they only needed like 7-10 days of tor to come back hard, then they had to stop early! So it really depends on what your taking. I would use MFX as a bridge in between pulses but a week or two of low dose SERM would not hurt. It just won't be necessary in most cases.

MassFX between pulses ehh???? I really think i may switch from the form/activate combo to MassFX for my 2bridges of "off" weeks. I dont want to have to remember to apply the formestane and we my schedule I dont want to have to carry it around and do it in the open and have to answer 20 question on what im doin, why, how it works.......blah blah blah.

So MassFX between it is, hey and Im gonna save a few bucks too......:bruce3:

 

[Jmuls]

Yeah, you can take a small dose of an AI on the off nights and a dose or two of an anti-cort on the off days. If you wanna do a small post cycle therapy, it wouldn't hurt, but after a month of 30-40mg epi straight no pulse, guys are saying they only needed like 7-10 days of tor to come back hard, then they had to stop early! So it really depends on what your taking. I would use MFX as a bridge in between pulses but a week or two of low dose SERM would not hurt. It just won't be necessary in most cases.

Dr. D

If I were to use Mass FX as a bridge, would I have to worry about running an AI as well?

Using Epistane as the example of an 8 week pulse cycle, followed by 1 week, max of 2 weeks of a SERM (as a precautionary measure), how long should the bridge to starting another pulse cycle last?

 

[Fireproof]

Dr. D - your patience with all the questions is much appreciated.

A few others if you don't mind:

1. What dosing would you recommend for a Pulsing of Superdrol at a 4x/week pulse. I see the example of 3x/week above, but not 4, and am curious as to what you would recommend. My split is upper, lower, off, upper, off, lower, off, repeat.

2. If one already has Cycle Support, how would you recommend incorporating it? Or should it be saved for a straight cycle.

3. On a pulse cycle of SD, how much of a break would you recommend before doing it again. (Apologies if I missed that advice already).

Thanks in advance.

P.S. nice scripture reference.

 

[gymrat5713]

:goodpost: I'm glad you asked all these questions bc I am eager to know also. I also have the cycle support which I started to take 2 weeks ago to get ready for this upcoming cycle, so I would also like to know the answer to that question

 

[darius]

Dr. D, what do you think about running Epi, 40mg, for 8 weeks without pulsing? I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else at some time, but if you could post an answer here, I'd appreciate it.

 

[supersoldier]

Dr. D, what do you think about running Epi, 40mg, for 8 weeks without pulsing? I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere else at some time, but if you could post an answer here, I'd appreciate it.

I say go for it. My brother (real brother, not internet bro:hammer: ) is just finishing up 8 weeks. He went from 20mg week 1 to 30mg week 2, to 40mg weeks 3-8. Dr. D recommended the 20,30,40,40 and the up to 8 weeks part was a SS original. My bloodwork on Epi showed it to be very mild on the liver compared to M1t and even superdrol.

 

[darius]

I say go for it. My brother (real brother, not internet bro:hammer: ) is just finishing up 8 weeks. He went from 20mg week 1 to 30mg week 2, to 40mg weeks 3-8. Dr. D recommended the 20,30,40,40 and the up to 8 weeks part was a SS original. My bloodwork on Epi showed it to be very mild on the liver compared to M1t and even superdrol.

Good deal. 8 weeks it is.

I did 20mg a week for week 1 and 2, and bumped it to 40mg as I am 1 day into week 3.

 

[Fireproof]

:goodpost: I'm glad you asked all these questions bc I am eager to know also. I also have the cycle support which I started to take 2 weeks ago to get ready for this upcoming cycle, so I would also like to know the answer to that question

Cool. Glad to help. We'll see what he says.

 

[peece]

Good deal. 8 weeks it is.

I did 20mg a week for week 1 and 2, and bumped it to 40mg as I am 1 day into week 3.

let us know how your gains are coming
stay healthy

 

[Tom 185]

my plan is 8 weeks. I am only on day 8 but started at 30mg and will probably go to 40 very soon

 

[hill5673]

8 weeks seems a little long. I thought I read that gains start to slow down around week 5/6.
But... any excuse to continue my current cycle...:thumbsup: