LucasBagoDoce
Member
What does it do/uses/sides? A brief googling on it made it sound like a great ingredient!
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LucasBagoDoce
Member
True.. some unaware users could complain about that = money loss.
But I’m definitely excited for any carb powders you’ll bring in next
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you for the suggestions.
I'm always open to suggestions and providing single ingredient herbals if there is enough demand for them. With Ecklonia Cava and Eucommia Ulmoides, they just aren't one that we have hardly ever been asked to offer, and both in my opinion are better suited to combination products. But if there's ever enough demand, I'd be glad to.
I had thought about doing a Tongkat Ali with 10% Eurycomanone, and had a branded ingredient company that did and still does want me to, but here is why I haven't:
- 300 mg. of Bionutricia Tongkat Ali @ a min. of 2% Eurycomanone is 6 mg.; 2 capsules would be 600 mg. equaling 12 mg. Eurycomanone
- 50 mg. of Tongkat Ali 10% at 10% is 5 mg. or 100 mg. equaling 10 mg. Eurycomanone
It's definitely easy to do if enough people want it because we offer a lot of different ingredients from a branded ingredient company that has one. It's just been that we have one that people like and no real demand to do another type. I've actually had more demand to do a lower dosed one than to do a higher potency one.
7,8-Benzoflavone is used in XPG Alpha Gel, and I think that is a much better ingredient for a topical than an oral.
As for Ursolic Acid, Ursa-Gel from Xtreme Performance Gels is excellent and we are working on another idea with Ursolic Acid that should be out by the end of the year.
As for Atractylodes, we've never had a single request for that. I would look into it if there was demand, but we get so many endocrinologist and HRT clinic referrals for Inhibit-E and Cloma-Plex that there's no way I would change either of those.
Anabolic XT has Eucommia Ulmoides, Ecklonia Cava, and Ginsenosides in it.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
Oh, Anabolic XT…
Best natty muscle builder ever
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Myo-Inositol Trispyrophosphate (ITPP) isn't a supplement, it's a drug and one that has been involved with a lot of doping in sports.
No cGMP contract manufacturer would even consider ever letting that in the door of their facility or touch their equipment and any company offering one as a supplement would be like just begging the FDA to take action against them. A company could lose their insurance, ability to accept credit cards, etc.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
True.. some unaware users could complain about that = money loss.
But I’m definitely excited for any carb powders you’ll bring in next
Thank you.
Some people had said that the original product had a purple color and had stained the tongue and caused colored bowel movements, but then some people told me that it didn't.
From a raw material standpoint, there's no way that using a decent amount of it wouldn't bc the raw material itself is very very purple.
Garyboy
Member
It influences the binding of oxygen to hemoglobin. Improved oxygenation to tissues. Apparently big with swimmers.
thescience
Well-known member
are you saying people have reported effects of decreased or increased estrogen? i remember reading an interesting assessment of TA that concluded some components of it had greatly increased free test, which explained why some users would see the benefits they noticed taper off in manner consistent with the feedback loop kicking in
sns8778
Board Sponsor
The feedback on the 10% is all over the place - some people love it, some people hate it, some say it increases estrogen, the next person may say it decreases estrogen and dries them out, etc.
The feedback on the Bionutricia Tongkat Ali 2% Eurycomanone extract that we use in Tongkat Ali XT and Optimize-T is great and consistent, so I just hadn't wanted the headache and drama that may come along with offering a 10%.
At one time, I wanted to offer a 10% and I still would if enough people wanted one, but personal use I'd take the 2%.
Mathematically:
300 mg. @ 2% = 6 mg.
50 mg. @ 10% = 5 mg.
600 mg. @ 2% = 12 mg.
100 mg. @ 10% = 10 mg.
So in terms of Eurycomanone, the Eurycomanone amounts are almost all the same; you're not really getting anymore Eurycomanone by taking a larger % because the dosage is just lower.
For a lot of herbs, that wouldn't make a difference - like Horny Goat Weed 10% Icariin and 20% Icariin, it would just be a dosage difference. 500 mg. @ 20% = 100 mg. whereas 1,000 mg. @ 10% = 100 mg. and the result would be the same. But with Tongkat Ali, it seems like there is more all over the place feedback with the 10% than with the 2%
Shadowblaze
Active member
Thanks for the reply, I'm new to AM and I've read a lot of your stuff. Thank you for making such great products. I've wanted to try cloma plex for a while. I think there would be a big market for a solo euccommia ulmoides product, I know blackstone labs solo euccommia product is a favourite of many.
Also what are your thoughts on testosurge fenugreek? The studies saying it doubles free testosterone makes it almost feel too good to be true.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I'm trying nicely to end the conversation on this in this thread because ingredient discussion of things like that isn't allowed in the supplement section, and I'd hate to see anyone get banned or their posts deleted over it.
Any conversation with prohormones, sarm's, anabolics, or other things related to doping is not supposed to be discussed in this section.
I think that it was innocently brought up because since it is in the inositol family, some people mistakenly think its a supplement but in actuality its a drug and its a drug that can be tested for in performance enhancer drug tests which could turn out to be a problem with some people's insurance companies and with some people's employers like police, fire, emt's, military, etc.
I don't want you to think I keep mentioning that its a drug to be combative or anything, I just want to make sure that people realize it can be a problem. I'm very pro personal responsibility - if someone realizes its a drug and chooses to take it, that's on them, but I don't want anyone to read this thread and assume its a supplement and take anything that could cause them to fail a drug test and mess up any aspects of their lives.
I personally know someone that failed a drug test for this and lost their ability to play NCAA athletics and their scholarship over it years ago and the store they bought it from that the time had told them - it's "just an inositol supplement".
It's interesting that it did come up though because its a derivative of IP6/Phytic Acid, which is legal and I've talked about how underrated of an ingredient that is for over 15 years.
We make an IP6 and it hardly ever gets talked about on here.
https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/ip6-powder/
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sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you. I'm always appreciative of suggestions and glad to discuss things. And I always like to remind people - even if it isn't an idea we do, sometimes other ideas come from things and/or I still appreciate the discussion.
The think about Blackstone's Halo Elite is that I think it sells just as much or more bc of what Halo used to mean versus what that product is now. I do think Eucommia is a great ingredient, but in perspective, a 30 day supply of their Eucommia costs almost the same price as a 30 day supply of Anabolic XT which has the same amount of Eucommia plus a lot more.
I've always felt that if we did one as a single ingredient, its one of those things that may seem like a good idea until you look at the price for it alone and then the price for Anabolic XT and that it would be so much better price wise to buy Anabolic XT. I hope that makes sense.
My favorite fenugreek extract for men and testosterone levels by far is Furosap. I'm not saying that because that's the one we sell, the reason that's the one we sell is because it does have the best studies on it imo. When we launched Furosap XT, no one really even knew what it was. I had seen the studies on it and they were extremely good and that's why we used it. That's an example of a case where I would have been better off at the time to just sell one of the more well-known and more heavily marketed fenugreek ingredients, but I wanted to offer the one that I felt and still do feel is the best.
Normally, I would post a bunch of the studies but I'm getting ready to call it a night. I've posted them in the past and if the search function is cooperating, you may could search my screen name and Furosap studies and find them. They're also easy to find on google. If not, I can try to post them again tomorrow if I remember.
Shadowblaze
Active member
Sorry about that, I deleted the comment now. I didn't know the full extent of its legal status. From the research I've done its fairly harmless with very minimal side effects and doesn't seem much like a drug, it honestly seems more like a nutrient.
baldwanus
Well-known member
sns8778
Board Sponsor
No worries. I just always worry about people making assumptions that things are legal or okay if discussed in this thread. Sometimes its not even that I mind discussing them, I may just keep restating the legal status because some people may find a post in google and not read the full context of the conversation or something.
I think that in general, we can't say the side effects are minimal on it bc not enough research has been done on it to know one way or the other. A lot of the assumption that the side effects would be mild is based off of it being a derivative of IP6 and IP6's being very safe to take. But it doesn't always work that way - so my thought on it is to say that IP6 has been shown safe and effective and is a legal and very inexpensive dietary supplement, whereas the other form may be even better but is much more expensive, the side effects aren't fully known, and anyone that is subject to drug testing should avoid it bc they will fail any athletic related doping tests and also if their job tests them for performance enhancers. And also bc of the doping publicity of it, if you do test positive for it on a drug test, it could effect your rate and availability for insurance in a major way.
For anyone reading and following along, the drug we're discussing is the one that caused the huge doping scandal in cycling at one time.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
This won't effect Ursa-Gel in any way.
But I know that in the general market, there are just a lot of people that won't use a td/topical, so this could be a very exciting option for those or to people that want to add an oral on top of Ursa-Gel
Shadowblaze
Active member
Any eta on Nattybolic? I'm super excited for it. I know you mentioned it will have a new ingredient, can you give a little teaser, I'm super eager haha.
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baldwanus
Well-known member
This won't effect Ursa-Gel in any way.
But I know that in the general market, there are just a lot of people that won't use a td/topical, so this could be a very exciting option for those or to people that want to add an oral on top of Ursa-Gel
Invalid Link Removed
sns8778
Board Sponsor
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Product Link: https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/mood-support-xt/
Mood Support XT discussion & intro sale thread:
anabolicminds.com
Product Link: https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/mood-support-xt/
Mood Support XT discussion & intro sale thread:
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thescience
Well-known member
i just ordered some of this on dps. im abit confused by it; i see people reviewing the ingredient on amazon and theire talking about it's use for lowering iron levels, normalizing their period, to help with cancer. one article said it isnt absorbed by humans, but obviously there are alot of people online stating it has an effect on them. why are athletes taking this? how does it work?
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I took a break from working on labels with our graphic artist to check the forum, so I'm in a bit of a rush and my answer here is going to be more brief and less science detailed than it normally would be.
IP6 is Inositol Hexaphosphate, which is also known as Phytic Acid.
I have no idea what you could have read that says that it isn't absorbed in humans, but I'd have serious trust issues reading anything from that source again being that there are literally hundreds of studies on it and many of which are done involving very serious topics like cancer.
The use of IP6 in cancer treatment and studies on it as a preventative measure is why you cannot find a lot of information on this anymore, because many companies are scared to say much about it bc the FDA takes a very serious stance about that subject, and even explaining how it works could be considered implying it.
^^^ That's why our write up is so vague on it too.
If I ever have the hours in the day, this is one that I wanted to write some articles on because it is useful for so many different things.
You've been here since 2008, so you may remember Avant Labs? The owner and a lot of his research guys posted here and they have the Avant Labs forum and then Mind & Muscle and there was a huge amount of information on there about it and if you can get the search function to cooperate here, you can find a lot about it here in old threads. Unfortunately, the search function hates 3 letter terms like IP6.
IP6 was in a lot of great products over the years - Avant's Metabolic Rebirth concept, MAN's Clout, and a lot more.
Oh, just remembered that it was also in Athletix original High Volume.
It has been used for a long time for phosphate loading for endurance athletes, and I think that's why MAN put it in Clout if I'm not mistaken back when they first came out with it.
Two of the articles I'd like to eventually do on this would be about the metabolic properties, which is way too in depth to go into that much detail on in a post, which is why I want to do an article on it; and phosphate loading.
IP6 also has significant chelating properties, which is why you see some people with high iron using it, but a lot of those studies had links to the anti-cancer research, so companies have to be very scared to even link to them for that.
I hope that helps. This would be a good topic for us to discuss one day in depth, but would have to be when I have more time to do it and get research together, but I'm swamped right now.
thescience
Well-known member
ahh the phosphate vo2 max. got it thanks.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
It’s a LOT more to it than that though.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
As far as I know we will be.
Hyde
Legend
Be careful with IP6; it is very good at chelation. This is excellent if you have high iron and wish to block absorption to help lower it. You can eat red meat & such all day and if you take 500mg IP6 with each relevant meal you will never absorb any of it. Plenty of guys who have high ferritin levels on TRT use some IP6 to manage it and help keep blood from getting too viscous.
But you can also make yourself anemic even, or block other minerals you may want to absorb - so the trick to supplementing is being mindful of timing. Don’t take it with foods or supplements you desire the minerals from.
Other things like polyphenol and dairy (calcium) ingestion can inhibit/compete with iron absorption, so it’s important to mind the big picture and consider monitoring ferritin if you are ingesting lots of things that can inhibit iron absorption concurrently. Ferritin is something you don’t want crashed or high.
thescience
Well-known member
great info
Beau
Well-known member
poison
Board Sponsor
What if you used glycinate or threonate, and added EZGaba?
Shadowblaze
Active member
As for Atractylodes, we've never had a single request for that. I would look into it if there was demand, but we get so many endocrinologist and HRT clinic referrals for Inhibit-E and Cloma-Plex that there's no way I would change either of those.
Anabolic XT has Eucommia Ulmoides, Ecklonia Cava, and Ginsenosides in it.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think atractylodes has great anabolic potential, many people report great strength gains from it. The reason why I suggested the full follistatin boosting / myostatin inhibiting supplement with ginsenosides is because I think it would be a great supplement. I know myosynergy be evomuse is a fan favourite and would like to see sns make one. The extract of ginsenosides you have in AXT is more of a full spectrum extract if I remember correctly, but I would want to see something like blr androgin that only includes the ginsenosides that boost follistatin, this combined with the other ingredients like Ecklonia cava and epicatechin I suggested would be much more practical to take. If I'm trying to buy a follistatin booster I don't want to buy AXT purely for 2 of the ingredients in it and then buy epi plex and another supplement and take 10 pills before every workout. I hope that makes sense, I had to type this in a hurry since I'm on my lunch break at work, sorry if any of it came off condescending.
Anabolic XT has Eucommia Ulmoides, Ecklonia Cava, and Ginsenosides in it.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I think atractylodes has great anabolic potential, many people report great strength gains from it. The reason why I suggested the full follistatin boosting / myostatin inhibiting supplement with ginsenosides is because I think it would be a great supplement. I know myosynergy be evomuse is a fan favourite and would like to see sns make one. The extract of ginsenosides you have in AXT is more of a full spectrum extract if I remember correctly, but I would want to see something like blr androgin that only includes the ginsenosides that boost follistatin, this combined with the other ingredients like Ecklonia cava and epicatechin I suggested would be much more practical to take. If I'm trying to buy a follistatin booster I don't want to buy AXT purely for 2 of the ingredients in it and then buy epi plex and another supplement and take 10 pills before every workout. I hope that makes sense, I had to type this in a hurry since I'm on my lunch break at work, sorry if any of it came off condescending.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I know you're new here, so I want to explain a rule to you - no one is allowed to mention a product by another forum sponsor in another brands thread.
It's not that I care that you're mentioning them - its that it puts me in a position where I'm not supposed to comment on them.
Since this is a company thread, just like they aren't supposed to come in and promote their products, I can't use the 'protection' of a company thread to break down formulas, discuss what I do or don't like or don't believe about them, etc.
I truly don't care at all about you mentioning them - but if I engage the conversation about theirs and they see it, they may then report you for doing it because it may look like you were baiting me to reply negatively to you about their products.
I do believe that you aren't and are just having innocent conversation, which is why I want to explain this to you.
We can discuss any ingredients that you want, but let's please keep it to the ingredients without the mention of the other brands.
With all of that in mind, I'm going to try to reply to you and figure out how to word this reply haha.
Atractylodes Macrocephala:
I am not sold on this as an ingredient doing some of the things that its claimed to do. I'm not saying it doesn't, but am saying that I haven't seen any information that would lead me to believe it works as good or better than anything else in its category.
That's not a knock against any product. That's just my opinion on the ingredient. I looked into it and wanted to use it in something, but couldn't really justify using it in anything. If there's ever enough demand or I see any way I feel I could justify using it in something, I'll be glad to. If you happen to have any studies on this that show anything interesting, please pm them to me.
And as far as estrogen lowering ingredients/products, we have that covered from so many different angles as it is, and Inhibit-E and Cloma-Plex are both very popular and we get a lot of endocrinologist and HRT clinic referrals for both.
Products that we offer that have anti-estrogenic properties/ingredients:
- Inhibit-E
- Cloma-Plex
- PCT Assist
- Eradicate-E
- Alpha Gel
If you believe that any company uses specific ginsenosides rather than an extract that contains a particular combination of them, then all one needs to do is check the pricing for specific ginsenosides to see that that is not feasible because it would cost more to make a product doing it that way that the product actually sells for. Individual ginsenosides are so expensive that some of them are upwards of 80.00 per gram, not per kg.
I can't control how any other brand markets their products or what they say about ingredients.
On our side, we are an FDA cGMP company and we label all of our products as required by the FDA labeling guidelines.
Also, when you license a branded ingredient, you have to identify it on the label the way that they tell you to. G70X is a specialized extract that is most commonly used for sports nutrition, sexual health, and longevity purposes.
Follistatin/Myostatin:
I'm certainly open to doing a product that has particular ingredients in it if there's a demand for it. I just in general don't like to use the same ingredients repeatedly in different products bc we already have so many options it can be confusing and overwhelming to some people.
I'm always appreciative of suggestions and open to ideas. I just sometimes have to remind myself how confusing too many options can be to customers and keep that in mind when adding new types of products.
In your train of thought though, we have 2 new products coming out in the next 2 months that I think you'll like.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I thought about that, but the average customer looking for ZMA is so price driven that adding anything to it would hurt sales.
The input dosage of those is so high that it may wind up requiring additional capsules.
As for EZGABA, if a person did ZMA XT with Sleep Support XT, then they would be covering the Theanine, EZGABA, Apigenin, and a lot more angles.
Shadowblaze
Active member
Thanks for explaining the rule to me. I'll try to be more careful when posting stuff on here. I'm excited to see the 2 new products you have released. Sorry about that, I just joined about a week ago so I'm still familiarizing myself with some of the rules, I just wanted to suggest a follistatin supplement with some more ingredients as I think that would be good and be a great addition to any stack.
N2ofusion
Active member
Would you ever consider a ginseng extract focused only on mood?
I have a layover in Seoul next week and the amount of Ginseng available in the airport is mind-boggling. And it’s not cheap. But I’m definitely curious about how to get the best experience for mood and positivity.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
No worries at all. And please don’t take me wrong, I don’t want you to think I’m nit picking you. I know you’re new so I’m just trying to help you. If I thought you had any negative intention, I wouldn’t be trying to help.
I’ve had cases where companies complain about me talking about an ingredient and being honest about an ingredient and it really had nothing to do w them. It wouldn’t be me to complain about you mentioning others in this thread, I was more worried that other companies may report it; especially if they didn’t like something I said about an ingredient.
I appreciate the discussions and your contribution to the thread.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I would be open to it if we had enough demand. My only holdback would be that we have more covered from so many different angles supplement wise.
thescience
Well-known member
having tried isolated ginsenosides as well as g70, i dont feel like the g70 spectrum leaves anything out or includes anything detrimental. i do feel like higher doses of ginsenosides yield higher benefits, but ive never taken them with without also taking cistanch so not entirely sure on that statement
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N2ofusion
Active member
Good point, but I also feel like there can never be too many options in my pantry for mood and euphoria. I feel like most consumers look to ginseng for mood, wellness and vitality. You may get different customers than the anabolics.
Regardless, thanks for the response!
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I tend to fall into the 'can never have too many options' category myself - but I find that a lot of consumers just get overwhelmed by having too many options. We've ran into that with our natural anabolics - that a lot of people get overwhelmed bc we have too many choices.
I'm open to specific forms if there's enough demand.
Vitality wise, I think G70X is the best I've tried out of those and its the type that will be in Libido Boost XT.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I thought about a Kava but not sure if enough people would be interested.
We plan on doing a hair product. The formula is done and it will be a very good product and address the issue from different angles. I have designs done for a topical and shampoo product I'd like to offer if ever get the chance too, but that's a whole different marketing and manufacturing type of situation, and just not enough hours in the day right now. But the capsule product should be out within the next 6 months.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thought about that, but its not exactly what I had in mind for the idea I mentioned.
We have discussed it though and its something we've looked at different ingredients for.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I agree. I think something to help keep it from getting worse is the most realistic, and if it happens to help it grow back any, that's an added plus.
poison
Board Sponsor
Exactly, set an attainable goal. For real though, I'd love to use topical drugs, but I'm just not sold on the safety of them. I think using a ketoconazole shampoo even is super helpful, but an additional layer of help is good.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Here is a study that goes along with the IP6 discussion that I found interesting:
Invalid Link Removed
Abstract
Recently, inositols, especially myo-inositol and inositol hexakisphosphate, also known as phytic acid or IP6, with their biological activities received much attention for their role in multiple health beneficial effects. Although their roles in cancer treatment and prevention have been extensively reported, interestingly, they may also have distinctive properties in energy metabolism and metabolic disorders. We review inositols and inositol phosphate metabolism in mammalian cells to establish their biological activities and highlight their potential roles in energy metabolism. These molecules are known to decrease insulin resistance, increase insulin sensitivity, and have diverse properties with importance from cell signaling to metabolism. Evidence showed that inositol phosphates might enhance the browning of white adipocytes and directly improve insulin sensitivity through adipocytes. In addition, inositol pyrophosphates containing high-energy phosphate bonds are considered in increasing cellular energetics. Despite all recent advances, many aspects of the bioactivity of inositol phosphates are still not clear, especially their effects on insulin resistance and alteration of metabolism, so more research is needed.
Invalid Link Removed
Abstract
Recently, inositols, especially myo-inositol and inositol hexakisphosphate, also known as phytic acid or IP6, with their biological activities received much attention for their role in multiple health beneficial effects. Although their roles in cancer treatment and prevention have been extensively reported, interestingly, they may also have distinctive properties in energy metabolism and metabolic disorders. We review inositols and inositol phosphate metabolism in mammalian cells to establish their biological activities and highlight their potential roles in energy metabolism. These molecules are known to decrease insulin resistance, increase insulin sensitivity, and have diverse properties with importance from cell signaling to metabolism. Evidence showed that inositol phosphates might enhance the browning of white adipocytes and directly improve insulin sensitivity through adipocytes. In addition, inositol pyrophosphates containing high-energy phosphate bonds are considered in increasing cellular energetics. Despite all recent advances, many aspects of the bioactivity of inositol phosphates are still not clear, especially their effects on insulin resistance and alteration of metabolism, so more research is needed.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I'm going to try to get some articles done on IP6 within the next month. I like to write, its just a lack of hours in the day because have so many new things in the works.
But been reading up on some new studies that are super promising and also been talking with someone that's an expert on the subject, so I want to try to get a few things written up on it.
I do know the price on the raw material has gone up quite a bit so for anyone that does like it, may be a good time to stock up on it for awhile. The current batch recently came in and exp. is in 2027.
But been reading up on some new studies that are super promising and also been talking with someone that's an expert on the subject, so I want to try to get a few things written up on it.
I do know the price on the raw material has gone up quite a bit so for anyone that does like it, may be a good time to stock up on it for awhile. The current batch recently came in and exp. is in 2027.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I knew I should have tossed some in on my last order. I’ll probably have to grab some in a couple weeks.
For someone who does a lot of cardio () I’m assuming some solid benefits, what would ideal dosing look like? It’s been so long since I’ve used anything with IP6 so not sure where to start.
From what I've read, the dosage range for that would be 1 to 3 grams per day.
Most of the bodybuilding supplements that I remember having it had 500 mg. to 1,000 mg. but I'm not sure if that was bc that was ideal or if that was just due to the price of it.
I'm going to try to refresh on this myself, and if you happen to come across anything related to dosage for cardio training, please post it too.