BillD
Active member
Safe to say it’s in libido boost XT?
Tell Us What You Would Like to see From SNS, CEL, Muscle Addiction, & XPG (2024 Edition)
- Thread starter sns8778
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Safe to say it’s in libido boost XT?
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Not necessarily because we already use SA3X in Optimize-T, Spilanthes XT, Anabolic XT, and Cloma-Plex.
We were one of the first companies to use SA3X and really try to educate people on SA3X.
This kind of goes back to the conversation and decision making we were having in this thread about the price range and what to leave in versus take out - because in a perfect world formula, yes, it would be included.
However, like discussed, even you yourself as much as you're looking forward to it may not be willing to use it regularly if we fully loaded the formula out and it was at a higher price point.
I'm still deciding so still definitely open to opinions and discussion on it.
BillD
Active member
I wouldn’t be upset if that ingredient left out seeing as I use optimize t and axt quite a bit.
Jensing
New member
Thanks for the feedback. I knew about the FDA issues and had heard there aren't a lot of legit products out there so that makes sense. I guess I'll pass on those for now. Thanks.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
Man, Anabolic XT is the natty supp that surprised me the most. Like all time. Pumps, size, well-being
Stupidly incredible
Johnanthab178
New member
same here I’ve been stacking it with pepti-plex and anabolic effect. The results are truly great. Anecdotally my workouts are a lot more enjoyable, better recovery and my muscles don’t look as flat. I can’t think of anything negative to say other than anabolic effect being out of stock ;(
sns8778
Board Sponsor
jmonda
New member
You know I can’t wait for focus xt to get back. Getting ready to start my last tub. Also excited about some of these other offerings.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I'm right there with you. I'm excited to get it back in stock myself - and also excited for some of the other things to come once we do have it fully restocked.
The first priority is getting it back in stock in all flavors, but then I have some other cool ideas I want to do with Focus XT. A lot of the planning process is already laid out, so it'll just depend on how well it sells as to how quickly some of it will come about.
jh1
Member
Looking forward to having Focus XT back in stock, and seeing what you have planned for Focus XT variations. You know I'll have to try them all
My wife still asks weekly when to expect a Focus XT delivery
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Looking forward to having Focus XT back in stock, and seeing what you have planned for Focus XT variations. You know I'll have to try them all
I have several thoughts, but demand and sales will really dictate which ones happen.
Priority #1 is to get the existing flavors back in stock and it will take awhile to get cash flow back in from that; but then if all goes well, there are several things I'm considering including a capsule version, an ultra version, and a higher stim version.
zSplit
New member
A knock-off derivative of the new formula in USPLabs 'Pink Magic' would be good 
. One of the best formula's I've used that I could actually "feel" a measurable difference on. Lots of high-profile and patented goodies. Something like it would make a good "Anabolic Xtreme" type of product, perhaps more suited for CEL. 
. One of the best formula's I've used that I could actually "feel" a measurable difference on. Lots of high-profile and patented goodies. Something like it would make a good "Anabolic Xtreme" type of product, perhaps more suited for CEL. 
CATdiesel76
Well-known member
Kind of how I feel about Animal. I don’t love all their products but they have a few good ones and I at least trust they are what they say they are so I support them here and there. Outside of say SNS I trust very few others. For vitamins it’s usually solar ray, NOW, jarrow
CATdiesel76
Well-known member
I love the idea of fruit flavored whey especially in summer. Also so much easier to add other products that are already fruit flavored as well. Ergopharm gf pro was amazing back in the day as well as the universal torrent flavors from what I remember a decade or so ago
sns8778
Board Sponsor
A knock-off derivative of the new formula in USPLabs 'Pink Magic' would be good
Thank you for the suggestion.
We've had people request some of the older USP Labs type stuff and we have done Recomp20 and will shortly have Prime XT.
The ingredients that appeared to stand out on the label for Pink Magic the most were KSM-66 and Spilanthes, both of which we use in a couple different products. It was a prop blend but also had Maca in it along with a couple of liver support ingredients.
What do you mean by an Anabolic Xtreme type product? I haven't thought about them in forever, but I don't remember anything in the original Pink Magic formula correlating to anything by AX back then, but I could be remembering wrong.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Joint Edge is 39.99 and then there are various discounted multi-pack options.
That's an example of one where we intentionally went low margin on for people to be able to better afford and try it. Most of the Tamaflex supplements alone are 39.99 to 49.99 for that one ingredient and Joint Edge also adds NEM, Boswellin Super, CurcuPrime, and more.
zSplit
New member
It has a number of interesting and patented ingredients that aren't in Anabolic XT or Anabolic Effect. I was just making up a random name for the product, hypothetically, lol
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I agree with that about Universal. I'm not a fan of most of their formulas, but I trust them to meet label claims. And I do understand why they keep their formulas very simple and basic - because when a company is their size, being out of a specialty ingredient could be catastrophic, so brands like that tend to keep it very simple for that reason.
Thank you for the faith and kind words.
For vitamins, for me, its usually NOW Foods, Nature's Way (which is owned by same company that owns Solaray), Jarrow, & Life Extension.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you for the input. I like the idea of fruit flavors as well. It's slightly more expensive than regular whey protein, mainly because there is more that has to be done cost wise from a production standpoint like ingredients to make it not froth up, etc. - but it would be worth it for me as much protein as I drink and in the summer, especially if I'm outside, I can't do the milk type flavors as much.
Electrake
Active member
Deja vu!
sns8778
Board Sponsor
It has a number of interesting and patented ingredients that aren't in Anabolic XT or Anabolic Effect. I was just making up a random name for the product, hypothetically, lol
I read that originally as thinking you meant the original Pink Magic formula, so that's what I was looking at.
Hi-Tech owns USP Labs now and the new formula for Pink Magic is very different.
We use some of those ingredients in different formulas, but some of them I wouldn't offer.
Eucommia Ulmoides - we have in Anabolic XT.
Their second ingredient they list as Tribulus, but then call it TestoSurge, which is odd bc TestoSurge is a standardized Fenugreek, not a Tribulus. We offer regular Tribulus Terrestris as our Tribulus-750 product that people really like, and we will be offering a Tribulus Aquaticus very soon.
For Fenugreek, I prefer Furosap because it has great clinicals and there was an independent study that compared the testosterone boosting effects of a variety of herbal ingredients and it showed Furosap to be the strongest out of the Fenugreek ones tested.
I do appreciate the idea though. Definitely open to suggestions.
zSplit
New member
Yes, you're correct, that is probably a labelling error on their part.
My apologies, I must not have been clear. What I was saying is that some of the ingredients in the new Pink Magic formulation could make for good ideas on any second version of an Anabolic Effect or XT. I was half-heartedly calling it 'Anabolic Xtreme': not specifically referencing an actual product called Anabolic Xtreme, if one exists.
It does have some good ingredients, particularly Rhaponticum and Diosterol and the MacaPure.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
The reason the Anabolic Xtreme part confused me was because Anabolic Xtreme was the name of a company that was popular back when USP Labs was originally popular.
Diosterol is actually a trademark of Hi-Tech's so no one one besides one of their companies or a company that they make products for can use that. It is a Dioscorea Nipponica Makino extract.
MacaPure is a a confusing issue bc there are a couple companies that claim to have the tm for that, and then there used to be a branded ingredient company that did, but they stopped marketing it. In general, Maca is a good ingredient but needs to be dosed pretty high for best results.
I'm always open to suggestions and we do have several new natural anabolics due out this year. There are no plans for doing any changes to Anabolic XT or Anabolic Effect though as they are both very popular products.
The couple natural anabolics that we have planned for this year are unique because they will work in different pathways than either of those and differently than 99% of the existing products on the market in that category.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I honestly don't remember what their original formula was. I know it changed a couple times, and one was predominantly Cissus.
Do you remember what was in the original?
Nattybolic is going to be a really cool and unique product and I don't think any of the ingredients that are going to be in it were available back when the original Natadrol was around.
LucasBagoDoce
Member
Got an ETA for Nattybolic yet, Steve?
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Not an exact one because it will contain a new branded ingredient, so there are some logistical things with the branded ingredient company that we're waiting on before we can move it into production.
It will be within the next few months, but I can't give an exact on it yet.
BigGame84
Well-known member
Here's the OG Formula:
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings per Container: 120
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Proprietary Blend
Natadrol Complex 550mg
Androgenic Fraction
Tinospora Cordifolia (Highly Specialized Ethanolic Extract) **
Anabolic Factor
Cissus Quadrangularis (Highly Standardized) **
pSARM CoFactors
Hibiscus Rosa-Sinensis (Highly Standardized)
Curculigo Orchioides (Highly Standardized)
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you. That's the one that I had seen.
I honestly didn't then and still don't now understand how that could give even remotely close to any of the results that some people said they received from it.
Also, when researching the Tinospora Cordifolia, I can't even understand how they got the info for the claims they made on it. I'm used to seeing companies making some real stretches of information from studies, but this goes beyond what I'm even used to seeing companies make, even back then.
Danksta710
Active member
I've been a fan of the clear since it came out. I drink it vs EAAs which I save for intra. I keep a steel jug with me most times. There's that recent study about no ceiling for protein intake. More the better. So I think something like clear whey will only get more popular as others come to the same conclusions.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Most of the ingredients that they have listed on their website aren't available at this time; they list ingredients that are in various stages of research and development. But yes, I have a great relationship with them and look forward to using other ingredients by them in the future.
One that is available, but isn't a supplement and isn't used in many things yet, is their PeptiYouth, which is a cosmetic ingredient for aging, wrinkles, etc. It isn't available in hardly anything yet, but that's something I'm very interested in for when we do an anti-aging/longevity brand. That brand/sub-brand is something I'm very passionate about and its of great personal interest to me and I do hope to have it done this year, but I keep having to have self help talks with myself and make myself focus on the existing brands and getting sales up and actually making money to fund it haha.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I thought about one of my and your discussions we had had about sipping on protein thru the day and very high protein intakes when I saw that study.
baldwanus
Well-known member
Sleep/Nourish were the ones that initially caught my eye.
thescience
Well-known member
the original pink magic contained massularia. as i recall it added an additional 10lbs to my bench. decent and noticable pumps from the other ingredient too, a unique pump. nothing like Tribulus aquaticus, which is going to blow minds and PR's upon re-release
thescience
Well-known member
I want you people to remember that about half the people polled on here reported that tribulus aquaticus met product claims, which included the words "the ultimate muscle pill" and "supraphysical strength" on the bottle and another, what 30% of people who wouldnt go that far stated they would still recommend it to others.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
I really don't remember a lot of feedback on the original Pink Magic, but I had gotten confused and he was talking about the formula now anyway; which though does still show 300 mg. of Massularia. But in researching that ingredient, the most info I came up with was on libido and it was still pretty iffy as to whether it helped from one person to the next.
zSplit
New member
Hi Steve,
Here's two ideas for you. Some food for thought.
1) Would you consider manufacturing a straight-up Na-RALA? It's not the most uncommon product obviously, but I find it increasingly challenging to find a good company that sells Na-RALA exclusively - properly dosed - and especially difficult for those of us not living in the USA.
2) Perhaps a standalone Byroviron (Bryonia Laciniosa) product. Likely can't be in an existing formula, since it has to be dosed higher (similar to Anacyclus). But, perhaps a good standalone (?)
--
I know there's a lot of talk about SNS and potential protein powders and carb powders on here, but IMHO there's already a multitude of companies that provide products like this. Sure, many of them are trash, but there are still many that are soundly good products. Contrary to the other 90%+ of your products, where you offer superior products. I feel people would order a few times out of "taste curiosity", then probably slowly pull back on frequency. Plus, very few people internationally would order WPI because the shipping would be enormous (due to the weight), and not be overly worthwhile given how commonplace WPI is in stores, amazon, etc. For example, you can't really get more high quality than a 90%+ WPI that's naturally sweetened from New Zealand, and those products are very common. Something to keep in mind.
The only way I could see a protein powder having longevity is if you did a combination of uncommon ingredients, like beef isolate/egg white powder/micellar casein/native milk powder, etc. In this instance, you could fill the void in the market of a "fast/medium/slower" digesting protein product, and most combination products have a shyt ton of fillers.
Just my two cents.
Here's two ideas for you. Some food for thought.
1) Would you consider manufacturing a straight-up Na-RALA? It's not the most uncommon product obviously, but I find it increasingly challenging to find a good company that sells Na-RALA exclusively - properly dosed - and especially difficult for those of us not living in the USA.
2) Perhaps a standalone Byroviron (Bryonia Laciniosa) product. Likely can't be in an existing formula, since it has to be dosed higher (similar to Anacyclus). But, perhaps a good standalone (?)
--
I know there's a lot of talk about SNS and potential protein powders and carb powders on here, but IMHO there's already a multitude of companies that provide products like this. Sure, many of them are trash, but there are still many that are soundly good products. Contrary to the other 90%+ of your products, where you offer superior products. I feel people would order a few times out of "taste curiosity", then probably slowly pull back on frequency. Plus, very few people internationally would order WPI because the shipping would be enormous (due to the weight), and not be overly worthwhile given how commonplace WPI is in stores, amazon, etc. For example, you can't really get more high quality than a 90%+ WPI that's naturally sweetened from New Zealand, and those products are very common. Something to keep in mind.
The only way I could see a protein powder having longevity is if you did a combination of uncommon ingredients, like beef isolate/egg white powder/micellar casein/native milk powder, etc. In this instance, you could fill the void in the market of a "fast/medium/slower" digesting protein product, and most combination products have a shyt ton of fillers.
Just my two cents.
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offredjo
Member
@sns8778 I second the vote for a stand alone Na-RALA. I currently purchase Allmax’s Na-RALA but if SNS came out with one I would buy Steve’s product. Allmax’s product lists it as 150 mg of R-Alpha Lipoic Acid (Yielding 125 mg of Active R (+) ALA Isomer). I add 1 capsule along with my GDA and I feel it makes a difference.
Hyde
Legend
Have you tried SNS Glycophase??? 100mg of Na-R-ALA in that GDA combo, along with 150mg ALA, 500mg Berberine HCL, and more:
GlycoPhase | Serious Nutrition Solutions
GlycoPhase is a cutting edge GDA (Glucose Disposal Agent) that is designed to help harness the power of insulin to help promote lean muscle, dramatic pumps, and fat loss.
seriousnutritionsolutions.com
It’s a very capable GDA, having used bottles of it personally.
zSplit
New member
ALA is quite ineffective, as it contains the S-isomer. R-ALA is far more stable, K-RLA is even more stable, and Na-RALA is the most stable and bioavailable.Have you tried SNS Glycophase??? 100mg of Na-R-ALA in that GDA combo, along with 150mg ALA, 500mg Berberine HCL, and more:
GlycoPhase | Serious Nutrition Solutions
GlycoPhase is a cutting edge GDA (Glucose Disposal Agent) that is designed to help harness the power of insulin to help promote lean muscle, dramatic pumps, and fat loss.
It’s a very capable GDA, having used bottles of it personally.
ALA is actually borderline useless, as it contains 50-50 S- and R+ isomers. The research is quite clear on ALA being exorbitantly more ineffective than R-ALA and other forms. In fact, some studies even show that ALA and the S-isomer do more "harm" than good, in the context for what someone is trying to solve.
ALA is probably 1/10th the price, and most consumers don't know the difference. So, most manufacturers use ALA over R-ALA and especially over Na-RALA.
Na-RALA is most optimally dosed between 300-600mg, so there is a legitimate need for it independently, if enough people want it, and of course, if Steve sees the need.
Hyde
Legend
I understand that it doesn’t meet your specific needs, which is why I didn’t quote you, but he said he feels a difference adding 125mg R-ALA to his GDA of choice.
So depending on cost, taking a serving of Glycophase could be a better and/or cheaper all-in-one GDA option for him. The thing he desires might already exist for him.
zSplit
New member
Totally understand. I was just trying to expand, for people who may not understand the difference. I'm not sure how many people would purchase ALA or products with ALA if they understood the difference(s).
In fact, if it were up to me, I would omit ALA entirely in GlycoPhase, but that's just my view and my personal opinion.
thescience
Well-known member
the half-life on na-r-ala is like 2o hours, ala is about 20 minutes. i thought only one company made it, maybe that changed
zSplit
New member
I don't know who "makes it", but there's quite a few companies that have standalone Na-RALA in the US, and a lot more R-ALA. Na-RALA as far I was know was brought to the market in the early 1990s by AOR.
Having said that, it isn't easy to find Na-RALA outside the US. I think it would be a great standalone in the SNS product line. It's a staple for myself, and a lot of people in the fitness community.
thescience
Well-known member
geronova.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thanks. I would be open to it if there was enough demand for it, but honestly there doesn't seem to be much. At one time, there were a few companies that made one and most stopped bc of lack of sales on it.
One important note is that Allmax's is R-ALA, not Na-R-ALA. Na-R-ALA is significantly more expensive.
We do use 100 mg. Na-R-ALA along with 150 mg. regular ALA in GlycoPhase.
Have you tried SNS Glycophase??? 100mg of Na-R-ALA in that GDA combo, along with 150mg ALA, 500mg Berberine HCL, and more:
GlycoPhase | Serious Nutrition Solutions
GlycoPhase is a cutting edge GDA (Glucose Disposal Agent) that is designed to help harness the power of insulin to help promote lean muscle, dramatic pumps, and fat loss.
It’s a very capable GDA, having used bottles of it personally.
Thank you. I love GlycoPhase myself. It is a great GDA formula and contains ingredients that help target improved insulin sensitivity and other benefits from a variety of angles.
Na-R-ALA has better oral bioavailability than regular Alpha Lipoic Acid, but to say that regular ALA is ineffective is not true. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of clinical studies done on regular Alpha Lipoic Acid. I do feel that Na-R-ALA is better, but there's way too much research and evidence on regular ALA having positive benefits to say it isn't effective at all.
Na-R-ALA is the better form, but it's exponentially more expensive by comparison.
I have looked into this before, and the issue with an Na-R-ALA supplement at the 300 mg. to 600 mg. dosing range is that no one would want to pay that price for one - including me, because at the price it would cost, people could buy full on formulas like GlycoPhase.
I definitely agree that GlycoPhase is a great GDA and seems like it may meet his needs very well.
I'm all for discussing Na-R-ALA but not at the expense of bashing Alpha Lipoic Acid.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but there are literally hundreds of studies on regular Alpha Lipoic Acid for every study done on Na-R-ALA.
I do agree that Na-R-ALA is the better form, but that doesn't mean that regular ALA is bad.
And also, as far as the GlycoPhase formula goes, we use both for several reasons - 1) A lot of the research is on Alpha Lipoic Acid itself, and 2) Using ALA and Na-R-ALA together allows us to provide a higher dosage total, and 3) Na-R-ALA doesn't need to be dosed super high when combining it with other GDA's.
sns8778
Board Sponsor
Thank you for the suggestions.
I replied above about Na-R-ALA. I would be open to it if enough people wanted one, but it has been a bad seller and discontinued sku for most companies that have offered it.
Na-R-ALA is so expensive for legit raws that if you look at the 300 mg. to 600 mg. dosing range, there are just imo honestly better ingredients available. And really, at that pricing, one can buy formulas for the price it would be. I think that's why it hasn't found a lot of success as a single ingredient.
I would be open to a Byroviron if enough people wanted it, but I think we've only been asked for that maybe 2 or 3 times ever. I'm open to it, it would just depend on demand.
As for the protein, from a business standpoint, we get asked for a protein more than the total of everything else we get asked for combined. It may be more commonplace and it may not be as exciting as discussing some other ideas and product types, but protein is something that almost everyone that works out uses so the market is exponentially bigger than any other sports nutrition supplement type. It's low margin, and I do agree that some people will try it a time or two and go back to bouncing around between brands; there's nothing I can do about that. But there are some people that are loyal customers to our brands that tell us all the time that they wish we would offer a protein and a multi so that they wouldn't have to buy anything else from other brands at all. I appreciate that type of loyalty and intend to provide them the products they want.
The protein decisions have been made and we will be offering a WPI and a zero carb WPI/Micellar Casein blend. We are also considering doing a couple flavors of clear whey/fruit flavors.
zSplit
New member
I'm sorry Steve, I respectfully disagree with you. ALA, R-ALA, K-ALA and Na-RALA are effectively the same foundational ingredient, so I wasn't really bashing the supplement, but rather, the form. There is a difference in supplementation, even though it sounds similar. For example, there are different bioactive forms of many vitamins and minerals. Speaking negatively about a form, is not the same as speaking negatively about the actual vitamin or mineral. There is a fine line, and there is a difference.
ALA contains 50/50 R+ and and S- which is a racemic enantiomer that is chemically bounded. There have been countless studies that show the S- isomer competes with the R+, thereby drastically reducing the benefits of the R+ isomer. Any benefits you see on ALA, is effectively and solely as a result of the R+ enantiomer, but the benefits are far reduced, because it competes with the S- chemically [and synthetic] bounded enantiomer.
So, yes, while ALA isn't "totally useless", you're essentially paying for a product that is 50% less effective with a potentiality of the S- isomer competing, reducing positive effects even further. R-ALA is really not that expensive, and if consumers knew the difference, they'd never buy it. Further, because of this, you have to take double to triple the dosage, which basically makes ALA almost the same cost as R-ALA for the consumer.
Any positive benefits from ALA, is from the R+ isomer, so why not use the isomer that's beneficial - which exists. That's my point.
Once more consumers are educated on the differences, they'd certainty gravitate towards R-ALA and even Na R-ALA. It's really no different than educating people on any ingredient or product that one company has superior to another.
Either way, thanks for your response, and I'll leave it there.
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